I requested an extension to file a business tax return for 2019, the due
date of which was extended till July 15 2020 due to COVID-19. I filed a
six month extension till January 15, 2021, but this was rejected. I just received the rejection letter a couple of weeks ago.
I never found guidance on the IRS Web site whether the six month
extension was from the new filing date or the original filing date.
Does anyone know what to cite on the off chance IRS pursues a late
filing penalty?
The return was filed after July 15, and long before the extension
request was processed.
--
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 5:34:49 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I requested an extension to file a business tax return for 2019, the due >>date of which was extended till July 15 2020 due to COVID-19. I filed a
six month extension till January 15, 2021, but this was rejected. I just >>received the rejection letter a couple of weeks ago.
I never found guidance on the IRS Web site whether the six month
extension was from the new filing date or the original filing date.
Does anyone know what to cite on the off chance IRS pursues a late
filing penalty?
The return was filed after July 15, and long before the extension
request was processed.
There isn't enough information in your post to give a complete answer.
What type of business return was it? Not all business return filing
deadlines were extended to July 15 due to COVID. Any return whose
original deadline was March 15 was not extended. If you didn't request
an extension for a March 15 return by March 15 (and it's obvious from
your post that you didn't submit the request in March), the extension
would have been denied as non-timely.
Second, there is no 6-month extension from July 15 to January 15. The >"automatic" extensions granted on July 15 were only extended to the
regular extended due date (October).
Third, I'm assuming that since you didn't get a quick acceptance or >rejection, you paper filed your extension request. If so, did you mail
it by certified mail to prove timely filing?
You need to determine why. It is possible that the IRS made an error,
but it's equally likely that the extension request was denied because it
was filed late or incorrectly.
Similarly, this year May 15 is Saturday. If I file for a six month
extension, where is the guidance that it's not till November 17?
ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 5:34:49 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I requested an extension to file a business tax return for 2019, the due >>date of which was extended till July 15 2020 due to COVID-19. I filed a >>six month extension till January 15, 2021, but this was rejected. I just >>received the rejection letter a couple of weeks ago.
I never found guidance on the IRS Web site whether the six month >>extension was from the new filing date or the original filing date.
Does anyone know what to cite on the off chance IRS pursues a late
filing penalty?
The return was filed after July 15, and long before the extension
request was processed. [some material trimmed]
The return in question was extended till July 15. 990 with 8868
extension.
Second, there is no 6-month extension from July 15 to January 15. The >"automatic" extensions granted on July 15 were only extended to theThat's what IRS's position is, yes. I was wondering where I would find guidance that that's correct. I thought extensions were relative.
regular extended due date (October).
Similarly, this year May 15 is Saturday. If I file for a six month
extension, where is the guidance that it's not till November 17?
Third, I'm assuming that since you didn't get a quick acceptance or >rejection, you paper filed your extension request. If so, did you mailI had forgotten but when I was looking though receipts today, I found
it by certified mail to prove timely filing?
that I had sent it certified. However since January 15 was an invalid
request date, it was simply denied.
--
The information you were looking for can be found in IRS Notice 2020-23
and the underlying regulations. . . .
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:29:59 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:but I would think the only question(s) remaining are: did the 8868 extension request you submitted effectively extended the filing deadline to October 15 or was it mooted by the universal extension of the April filing deadline; and was the actual return
ira smilovitz <ira.sm...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 5:34:49 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
I requested an extension to file a business tax return for 2019, the due >>>> date of which was extended till July 15 2020 due to COVID-19. I filed a >>>> six month extension till January 15, 2021, but this was rejected. I just >>>> received the rejection letter a couple of weeks ago.
I never found guidance on the IRS Web site whether the six month
extension was from the new filing date or the original filing date.
Does anyone know what to cite on the off chance IRS pursues a late
filing penalty?
The return was filed after July 15, and long before the extension
request was processed. [some material trimmed]
The information you were looking for can be found in IRS Notice 2020-23 and the underlying regulations. Specifically -
III B. Postponement of Due Dates with Respect to Certain Federal Tax
Returns and Federal Tax Payments
For an Affected Taxpayer with respect to Specified Filing and Payment Obligations, the due date for filing Specified Forms and making Specified Payments is
automatically postponed to July 15, 2020.
This relief is automatic; Affected Taxpayers do not have to call the IRS or file any
extension forms, or send letters or other documents to receive this relief. ***However,
Affected Taxpayers who need additional time to file may choose to file the appropriate
extension form by July 15, 2020, to obtain an extension to file their return, but the
extension date may not go beyond the original statutory or regulatory extension date.*** [emphasis added]
For example, a Form 4868, Application for Automatic Extension of Time to File U.S.
Individual Income Tax Return, may be filed by July 15, 2020, to extend the time to file
an individual income tax return, but that extension will only be to October 15, 2020.
That extension will not extend the time to pay federal income tax beyond July 15, 2020.
The return in question was extended till July 15. 990 with 8868
extension.
So an extension was filed before April 15 for three months to July 15. This leaves an additional 3-month, non-automatic extension as a possibility, not an additional 6 months. I'm not familiar with the underlying regs for exempt organization returns,
Second, there is no 6-month extension from July 15 to January 15. TheThat's what IRS's position is, yes. I was wondering where I would find
"automatic" extensions granted on July 15 were only extended to the
regular extended due date (October).
guidance that that's correct. I thought extensions were relative.
Similarly, this year May 15 is Saturday. If I file for a six month
extension, where is the guidance that it's not till November 17?
IR-2021-59, IR-2021-67, and IRS Notice 2021-21 provide the guidance for returns being filed in 2021.
Third, I'm assuming that since you didn't get a quick acceptance orI had forgotten but when I was looking though receipts today, I found
rejection, you paper filed your extension request. If so, did you mail
it by certified mail to prove timely filing?
that I had sent it certified. However since January 15 was an invalid
request date, it was simply denied.
Yes. Certified mail won't help with an invalid request.
Ira Smilovitz, EA
Leonia, NJ
--
Assuming the taxes were paid timely, what does the IRS due
with respect to a late filed return? Seems almost "no harm,
no foul". Almost.
On 5/4/2021 9:03 AM, ira smilovitz wrote:
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:29:59 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
. . .
The return in question was extended till July 15. 990 with 8868 >>>extension.
So an extension was filed before April 15 for three months to July 15.
This leaves an additional 3-month, non-automatic extension as a
possibility, not an additional 6 months. . . .
. . .
Assuming the taxes were paid timely, what does the IRS due with respect
to a late filed return? Seems almost "no harm, no foul". Almost.
Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> wrote:
On 5/4/2021 9:03 AM, ira smilovitz wrote:
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:29:59 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
. . .
The return in question was extended till July 15. 990 with 8868
extension.
So an extension was filed before April 15 for three months to July 15.
This leaves an additional 3-month, non-automatic extension as a
possibility, not an additional 6 months. . . .
In a normal year, the 990 is due on the 15th of the fifth month after
close of the tax year, so May 15 for calendar year filers. One may
request an automatic 6 month extension till November 15. When the filing
date was extended till July 15, I thought I could request a 6 month
extension till January 15, but IRS disagreed and denied my extension
request.
. . .
Assuming the taxes were paid timely, what does the IRS due with respect
to a late filed return? Seems almost "no harm, no foul". Almost.
With certain exceptions, organizations that file 990s have no tax
liabilities and the penalty for late filing isn't based on taxes owed.
On 5/4/2021 4:23 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> wrote:
On 5/4/2021 9:03 AM, ira smilovitz wrote:
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 8:29:59 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
. . .
The return in question was extended till July 15. 990 with 8868 >>>>>extension.
So an extension was filed before April 15 for three months to July 15.
This leaves an additional 3-month, non-automatic extension as a >>>possibility, not an additional 6 months. . . .
In a normal year, the 990 is due on the 15th of the fifth month after
close of the tax year, so May 15 for calendar year filers. One may
request an automatic 6 month extension till November 15. When the filing >>date was extended till July 15, I thought I could request a 6 month >>extension till January 15, but IRS disagreed and denied my extension >>request.
. . .
Assuming the taxes were paid timely, what does the IRS due with respect >>>to a late filed return? Seems almost "no harm, no foul". Almost.
With certain exceptions, organizations that file 990s have no tax >>liabilities and the penalty for late filing isn't based on taxes owed.
What about for other types of entities,with tax liabilities?
What about for other types of entities,with tax liabilities?
That brings up the related question - what is the penalty for an individual who fails to file a return on time but who pays the required taxes on time? For example - and this is actually a real-life case - an individual owes approximately $1000 on their 2020 taxes. They file an extension request
"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message
news:XnsAD20D623AF50Es...@130.133.4.11...
Taxed and Spent <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
What about for other types of entities,with tax liabilities?
Corporations and partnerships are required to file a return even if
they have no income. The penalty is minor, though.
with form 4868 before the tax deadline (May 17th) and they pay their
required taxes before the deadline. They now have until October 15th to
file the actual return. Suppose for whatever reason, they fail to file that return on time. Let's say they don't file until November 15th or December 15th or even January of 2022. What is their penalty, since at that point
they theoretically don't owe any money?
--
"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message
news:XnsAD20D623AF50Espamtraplexregiacom@130.133.4.11...
Taxed and Spent <nospamplease@nonospam.com> wrote:
What about for other types of entities,with tax liabilities?
Corporations and partnerships are required to file a return even if
they have no income. The penalty is minor, though.
On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 11:17:21 AM UTC-4, Rick wrote:
That brings up the related question - what is the penalty for an
"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message
news:XnsAD20D623AF50Es...@130.133.4.11...
Taxed and Spent <nospam...@nonospam.com> wrote:
What about for other types of entities,with tax liabilities?
Corporations and partnerships are required to file a return even if
they have no income. The penalty is minor, though.
individual
who fails to file a return on time but who pays the required taxes on
time?
For example - and this is actually a real-life case - an individual owes
approximately $1000 on their 2020 taxes. They file an extension request
with form 4868 before the tax deadline (May 17th) and they pay their
required taxes before the deadline. They now have until October 15th to
file the actual return. Suppose for whatever reason, they fail to file
that
return on time. Let's say they don't file until November 15th or December
15th or even January of 2022. What is their penalty, since at that point
they theoretically don't owe any money?
--
The failure to file penalty is 5% of the unpaid tax per month up to a
maximum of 25%. The apparent penalty in this situation would be $0, but the >risk is that the statute of limitations for the government to assess tax >doesn't begin until the return is filed. The statute of limitations for >claiming a refund of overpaid taxes begins on the due date for filing the >return. (This last statement is a generalization as there are circumstances >which will extend the refund statute in whole or in part.) The added risk
is that while all income is taxable unless specifically exempted, all >deductions are ",,,allowed as a matter of legislative grace, and only as >there is clear provision therefor can any particular deduction be allowed, >and a taxpayer seeking a deduction must be able to point to an applicable >statute and show that he comes within its terms. " (White v. United States, >305 U.S. 281 (1938)). What this means practically is that the IRS can >disallow every deduction claimed on the late filed return and force the
taxpayer to cross every t and dot every i to justify the deductions.
Ira Smilovitz, EA
Leonia, NJ
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