Filed a 1099 misc to a business, formatted EIN as an SSN
Example: EIN is formatted like xxx-xx-xxxx instead of xx-xxxxxxx
I did a TIN match and it was accepted.
Will I have to do a type 2 correction or get an IRS Notice?
Does the IRS disregard the dashes?
Mitch <one.jawbreaker@gmail.com> wrote:
Filed a 1099 misc to a business, formatted EIN as an SSN
Example: EIN is formatted like xxx-xx-xxxx instead of xx-xxxxxxx
I did a TIN match and it was accepted.
Where did you find the big list of EINs to match?
Will I have to do a type 2 correction or get an IRS Notice?
Does the IRS disregard the dashes?
According to Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
Mitch <one.jawbreaker@gmail.com> wrote:
Filed a 1099 misc to a business, formatted EIN as an SSN
Example: EIN is formatted like xxx-xx-xxxx instead of xx-xxxxxxx
I did a TIN match and it was accepted.
Where did you find the big list of EINs to match?
The IRS has a TIN matching service.
https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/taxpayer-identification-number-tin-matching
. . .
According to Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
Mitch <one.jawbreaker@gmail.com> wrote:
Filed a 1099 misc to a business, formatted EIN as an SSN
Example: EIN is formatted like xxx-xx-xxxx instead of xx-xxxxxxx
I did a TIN match and it was accepted.
Where did you find the big list of EINs to match?
The IRS has a TIN matching service.
https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/taxpayer-identification-number-ti n-matching
I've used it because I have an EIN for a sole proprietorship and
people kept kicking back my 1099s because the match failed. I still
don't understand when I'm supposed to use the EIN vs my SSN.
As a bonus confusion, I also have a single member LLC with its own EIN because it used to be a two-member LLC, but they seem OK with that.
https://www.irs.gov/tax-professionals/taxpayer-identification-number-ti n-matching
Will I have to do a type 2 correction or get an IRS Notice?
Does the IRS disregard the dashes?
I wouldn't worry about it.
The rules as you know them are probably correct. Technically you should
use your SS# for W-2 employment, and your EIN for everything else (though
the IRS prefers you not use an EIN as a sole proprietor, they accept that >it's permissible). I do the same thing - use an EIN for my sole >proprietorship. But I haven't had any problems with it - at least not
that anyone has told me about.
As a bonus confusion, I also have a single member LLC with its own EIN
because it used to be a two-member LLC, but they seem OK with that.
Technically when you go from being taxed as a partnership to a >proprietorship, you should use your SS# or get a new EIN. Do you still
file Form 1065?
According to Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
The rules as you know them are probably correct. Technically you
should use your SS# for W-2 employment, and your EIN for everything
else (though the IRS prefers you not use an EIN as a sole proprietor,
they accept that it's permissible). I do the same thing - use an EIN
for my sole proprietorship. But I haven't had any problems with it -
at least not that anyone has told me about.
The TIN match recognized my name but not the name of my business which
is a pain. It looks like I can write to the IRS and tell them the
business name that goes with the EIN. Has anyone done that?
As a bonus confusion, I also have a single member LLC with its own
EIN because it used to be a two-member LLC, but they seem OK with
that.
Technically when you go from being taxed as a partnership to a >>proprietorship, you should use your SS# or get a new EIN. Do you
still file Form 1065?
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found
advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC, it
keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded a
decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found
advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC, it
keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded a
decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they haven't
given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you- >need-a-new-ein
According to Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found
advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC,
it keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded
a decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they
haven't given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you- >>need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have to
get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While turning
a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN list, the
converse isn't.
Poking around on the intertubes, this page says keep the same EIN:
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/going-multi-member-llc-single-member-ll c-33047.html
This page says you need a new EIN, but it links to the same page you
found that doesn't say that:
https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/business-taxes/discussion/multiple-me mber-llc-to-single-member-llc/00/1007654
"• Your partnership is taken over by one of the partners and is operated
as a sole proprietorship.
According to Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found
advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC, it >>>keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded a
decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they haven't >>given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you- >>need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have to
get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While turning
a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN list, the
converse isn't.
Poking around on the intertubes, this page says keep the same EIN:
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/going-multi-member-llc-single-member-llc-33047.html
This page says you need a new EIN, but it links to the same page you
found that doesn't say that:
https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/business-taxes/discussion/multiple-member-llc-to-single-member-llc/00/1007654
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found
advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC,
it keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded
a decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they
haven't given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you- >>>need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have to
get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While turning
a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN list, the
converse isn't.
It says,
"Partnerships
"You will be required to obtain a new EIN if any of the following
statements are true.
"You incorporate.
"Your partnership is taken over by one of the partners and is operated
as a sole proprietorship.
"You end an old partnership and begin a new one."
Since the IRS ignores the existence of LLCs for most purposes, your LLC
taxed as a partnership was taken over by one of the partners and operated
as a sole proprietorship. That is exactly when it says a new EIN is >required.
On the other hand if they didn't notice and you use the same EIM without >trouble, don't stop now. It might confuse them.
Poking around on the intertubes, this page says keep the same EIN:
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/going-multi-member-llc-single-member-llc-33047.html
This page says you need a new EIN, but it links to the same page you
found that doesn't say that:
https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/business-taxes/discussion/multiple-member-llc-to-single-member-llc/00/1007654
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found >>>>>advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC,
it keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded
a decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they
haven't given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you- >>>>need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have to
get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While turning
a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN list, the >>>converse isn't.
It says,
"Partnerships
"You will be required to obtain a new EIN if any of the following >>statements are true.
"You incorporate.
"Your partnership is taken over by one of the partners and is operated
as a sole proprietorship.
"You end an old partnership and begin a new one."
Since the IRS ignores the existence of LLCs for most purposes, your
LLC taxed as a partnership was taken over by one of the partners and >>operated as a sole proprietorship. That is exactly when it says a new
EIN is required.
No. There is no new entity. It's still organized and operated as the
same LLC. Even though the nature of the LLC changed -- one member
remains after the other members withdrew, IRS does not see a new sole proprietor. Because the number of its members changed, the existing
entity has a new classification for tax purposes, formerly a
partnership, now a disregarded entity to be treated as a sole
proprietor.
On the other hand if they didn't notice and you use the same EIM
without trouble, don't stop now. It might confuse them.
Poking around on the intertubes, this page says keep the same EIN:
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/going-multi-member-llc-single-member-l >>>lc-33047.html
This page says you need a new EIN, but it links to the same page you >>>found that doesn't say that:
https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/business-taxes/discussion/multiple-m >>>ember-llc-to-single-member-llc/00/1007654
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found >>>>>>advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same LLC, >>>>>>it keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to disregarded >>>>>>a decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they >>>>>haven't given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you-need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have to >>>>get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While turning
a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN list, the >>>>converse isn't.
It says,
"Partnerships
"You will be required to obtain a new EIN if any of the following >>>statements are true.
"You incorporate.
"Your partnership is taken over by one of the partners and is operated
as a sole proprietorship.
"You end an old partnership and begin a new one."
Since the IRS ignores the existence of LLCs for most purposes, your
LLC taxed as a partnership was taken over by one of the partners and >>>operated as a sole proprietorship. That is exactly when it says a new >>>EIN is required.
No. There is no new entity. It's still organized and operated as the
same LLC. Even though the nature of the LLC changed -- one member
remains after the other members withdrew, IRS does not see a new sole >>proprietor. Because the number of its members changed, the existing
entity has a new classification for tax purposes, formerly a
partnership, now a disregarded entity to be treated as a sole
proprietor.
You misunderstand how the IRS treats LLCs. As fas as the IRS is
concerned (except when it comes to employment taxes) they don't exist.
When an LLC gets an EIN, it's really not the LLC that gets it, but the >partnership or the proprietor who gets it, not really the LLC - because
they don't exist for IRS purposes.
. . .
I've read through all this and I don't agree with Mr. Bronstein. Mr.
Levine's LLC was taxed as a multi-member partnership. The other partners
left so it's a single-member LLC, owned by Mr. Levine and now a
disregarded entity treated as a sole proprietor. If there were no EIN >previously and there was no payroll, then an EIN wouldn't even be
required. As he's long had an EIN, he might as well continue to use it.
Why is he getting informed of no match?
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found >>>>>>>advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same >>>>>>>LLC, it keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to >>>>>>>disregarded a decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they >>>>>>haven't given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-yo >>>>>>u-need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have
to get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While >>>>>turning a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN >>>>>list, the converse isn't.
It says,
"Partnerships
"You will be required to obtain a new EIN if any of the following >>>>statements are true.
"You incorporate.
"Your partnership is taken over by one of the partners and is
operated as a sole proprietorship.
"You end an old partnership and begin a new one."
Since the IRS ignores the existence of LLCs for most purposes, your
LLC taxed as a partnership was taken over by one of the partners and >>>>operated as a sole proprietorship. That is exactly when it says a
new EIN is required.
No. There is no new entity. It's still organized and operated as the
same LLC. Even though the nature of the LLC changed -- one member
remains after the other members withdrew, IRS does not see a new sole >>>proprietor. Because the number of its members changed, the existing >>>entity has a new classification for tax purposes, formerly a
partnership, now a disregarded entity to be treated as a sole
proprietor.
You misunderstand how the IRS treats LLCs. As fas as the IRS is
concerned (except when it comes to employment taxes) they don't exist.
When an LLC gets an EIN, it's really not the LLC that gets it, but
the partnership or the proprietor who gets it, not really the LLC -
because they don't exist for IRS purposes.
"Treats", yes, as in classification for tax treatment. The LLC,
organized under state law, is still a business entity for federal tax
law.
I just read through the instructions for the SS-4. Lines 8a-8c are
used to provide information about the LLC, which is then described in
9a. The instructions note specifically that Line 9a is not an election
for tax classification. If the default classification is accepted,
then Form 8832 isn't filed. The form's instructions don't discuss
whether IRS regards the LLC now changed to single member as a new
entity.
The closest the instructions come to your position is Line 10. Reason
for applying. There is a choice "Changed type of organization" such as becoming a partnership, but it's significant that there is no
discussion of LLCs here.
However, Form 8832 is filed to change the classification. I also read
through the instructions. Changing to a single-member LLC and
accepting default classification as a disregarded entity isn't
precisely an election but this appears to be the easiest way to notify
IRS.
Nothing in Form 8832's instructions say not to use this form for this purpose, or to file a new SS-4 to obtain a new EIN instead.
Similar to your position, LLCs are discussed in Publication 1635 Understanding Your EIN, but there is no discussion about whether
changing from multi member to single member is treated as a new
entity. There is a comment that the individual with multiple sole
proprietor businesses may use one EIN for any or all of them. In the partnership discussion, there is discussion that there is a new entity
if one partner takes over and operates it as a sole proprietorship.
There is no discussion here about changing from a multi member to
single member LLC.
Given the absense of clear instructions specific to whether IRS
regards the change from multi member to single member LLC as a new
entity, I'm going to assume it does not.
As long as the entity has informed IRS on Form 8832 of the change to
single member and that it's classification is now disregarded entity,
I don't see why IRS would consider it to be a new entity. It's
reporting multi member or single member LLC on the 8832 and the classification election that's controlling, not the EIN itself.
If it weren't, and the classification change required the issuance of
a new EIN, then there'd be no need for the 8832. The election could be
made directly on the SS-4.
. . .
You're confusing two threads. The EIN for the LLC is fine.
. . .
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in
news:up7pb7$d0sq$1@dont-email.me:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com>:
No more 1065s, it's now a disregarded entity. I looked and found >>>>>>>>advice on the IRS web site that says that since it's the same >>>>>>>>LLC, it keeps the same EIN. It switched from partnership to >>>>>>>>disregarded a decade ago and the IRS hasn't objected.
This is the page that I found saying the opposite. But if they >>>>>>>haven't given you any problem, there's no reason to change it now:
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-yo >>>>>>>u-need-a-new-ein
When I look at at that page, there are lists of when you will have >>>>>>to get a new EIN and when you won't have to get a new EIN. While >>>>>>turning a single-member LLC into a partnership is in the new EIN >>>>>>list, the converse isn't.
It says,
"Partnerships
"You will be required to obtain a new EIN if any of the following >>>>>statements are true.
"You incorporate.
"Your partnership is taken over by one of the partners and is >>>>>operated as a sole proprietorship.
"You end an old partnership and begin a new one."
Since the IRS ignores the existence of LLCs for most purposes, your >>>>>LLC taxed as a partnership was taken over by one of the partners and >>>>>operated as a sole proprietorship. That is exactly when it says a >>>>>new EIN is required.
No. There is no new entity. It's still organized and operated as the >>>>same LLC. Even though the nature of the LLC changed -- one member >>>>remains after the other members withdrew, IRS does not see a new sole >>>>proprietor. Because the number of its members changed, the existing >>>>entity has a new classification for tax purposes, formerly a >>>>partnership, now a disregarded entity to be treated as a sole >>>>proprietor.
You misunderstand how the IRS treats LLCs. As fas as the IRS is >>>concerned (except when it comes to employment taxes) they don't exist.
When an LLC gets an EIN, it's really not the LLC that gets it, but
the partnership or the proprietor who gets it, not really the LLC - >>>because they don't exist for IRS purposes.
"Treats", yes, as in classification for tax treatment. The LLC,
organized under state law, is still a business entity for federal tax
law.
I just read through the instructions for the SS-4. Lines 8a-8c are
used to provide information about the LLC, which is then described in
9a. The instructions note specifically that Line 9a is not an election
for tax classification. If the default classification is accepted,
then Form 8832 isn't filed. The form's instructions don't discuss
whether IRS regards the LLC now changed to single member as a new
entity.
The closest the instructions come to your position is Line 10. Reason
for applying. There is a choice "Changed type of organization" such as
becoming a partnership, but it's significant that there is no
discussion of LLCs here.
However, Form 8832 is filed to change the classification. I also read
through the instructions. Changing to a single-member LLC and
accepting default classification as a disregarded entity isn't
precisely an election but this appears to be the easiest way to notify
IRS.
Nothing in Form 8832's instructions say not to use this form for this
purpose, or to file a new SS-4 to obtain a new EIN instead.
Similar to your position, LLCs are discussed in Publication 1635
Understanding Your EIN, but there is no discussion about whether
changing from multi member to single member is treated as a new
entity. There is a comment that the individual with multiple sole
proprietor businesses may use one EIN for any or all of them. In the
partnership discussion, there is discussion that there is a new entity
if one partner takes over and operates it as a sole proprietorship.
There is no discussion here about changing from a multi member to
single member LLC.
Given the absense of clear instructions specific to whether IRS
regards the change from multi member to single member LLC as a new
entity, I'm going to assume it does not.
As long as the entity has informed IRS on Form 8832 of the change to
single member and that it's classification is now disregarded entity,
I don't see why IRS would consider it to be a new entity. It's
reporting multi member or single member LLC on the 8832 and the
classification election that's controlling, not the EIN itself.
If it weren't, and the classification change required the issuance of
a new EIN, then there'd be no need for the 8832. The election could be
made directly on the SS-4.
Here's what the IRS says:
"An LLC is an entity created by state statute. The IRS did not create a
new tax classification for the LLC when it was created by the states;
instead IRS uses the tax entity classifications it has always had for >business taxpayers: corporation, partnership, or disregarded as an entity >separate from its owner, referred to as a "disregarded entity." An LLC is >always classified by the IRS as one of these types of taxable entities.
If a "disregarded entity" is owned by an individual, it is treated as a
sole proprietor. If the "disregarded entity" is owned by any other
entity, it is treated as a branch or division of its owner."
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/do-you-need-a-new-ein
When an LLC taxed as a partnership is taken over by one of its >partners/members, it's no longer taxed as a partnership. That same pages >says that when a partnership is taken over by one of its partners, it
cannot use the same EIN, but either needs a new EIN or can use the Social >Security Number of the one remaining member.
Yes, the IRS recognizes that LLCs exist. But for most tax purposes they
are treated as if they don't.
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