If there are three joint owners of real estate and one of the dies, does the property get excluded from the gross estate since it was jointly owned by three owners? Thanks.
On 7/29/2021 12:43 PM, D L wrote:
If there are three joint owners of real estate and one of the
dies, does the property get excluded from the gross estate since
it was jointly owned by three owners? Thanks.>
No. But I like your thinking!
If there are three joint owners of real estate and one of the
dies, does the property get excluded from the gross estate since
it was jointly owned by three owners? Thanks.
Taxed and Spent wrote:of
D L wrote:
If there are three joint owners of real estate and one of the
dies, does the property get excluded from the gross estate since
it was jointly owned by three owners? Thanks.>
No. But I like your thinking!
Wouldn't that depend on the exact nature of the holding? As I
understand it, though I could be wrong, "joint tenants with right
survivorship" does exclude the house from the decedent's estate.
D L <debbie.lafourche@gmail.com> wrote:
If there are three joint owners of real estate and one of the
dies, does the property get excluded from the gross estate since
it was jointly owned by three owners? Thanks.
If you're talking about estate tax (and remember there's a lifetimes gift/estate tax exemption of $11,700,000 for people who die this year),
the rule is this: the first joint owner to die is presumed to be the
owner of 100% of the jointly owned property, so it's all included in
his estate, except to the extent that the other joint tenant(s) can
show that they contributed to the purchase.
So, for example, if the property was worth $1 million on the date of
death, that's all included in the estate of the first to die, unless
the others prove that they contributed to the purchase. If they can
show that they paid for half the purchase price, then only half the
value is included in the gross estate.
On 7/29/2021 5:49 PM, Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
D L <debbie.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
If there are three joint owners of real estate and one of the
dies, does the property get excluded from the gross estate since
it was jointly owned by three owners? Thanks.
If you're talking about estate tax (and remember there's a lifetimes gift/estate tax exemption of $11,700,000 for people who die this year),
the rule is this: the first joint owner to die is presumed to be the
owner of 100% of the jointly owned property, so it's all included in
his estate, except to the extent that the other joint tenant(s) can
show that they contributed to the purchase.
So, for example, if the property was worth $1 million on the date of
death, that's all included in the estate of the first to die, unless
the others prove that they contributed to the purchase. If they can
show that they paid for half the purchase price, then only half the
value is included in the gross estate.
Just to clarify a bit for anyone reading:
OP said "joint owners". That may or may not mean held as "joint tenants
with right of survivorship".
Stuart's replies pertain to the case where the property is held as joint tenants with right of survivorship.
If OP meant, by "joint owners"m that the property was held as tenants in common, then the decedent's value in the property is included in
decedent's estate. Decedent's value may be less than his proportionate
share of the value of the property as a whole, due to partnership
discount valuation.
To clarify, property is held as Joint Tenants with Right of
Survivorship. If property is held in Joint Tenancy, it moves out
of the estate upon death of the person who died. It stands to
reason that it should be excluded from the gross estate of the
deceased.
D L <debbie.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
To clarify, property is held as Joint Tenants with Right ofWhat's in or out of the probate estate is purely a state law issue and
Survivorship. If property is held in Joint Tenancy, it moves out
of the estate upon death of the person who died. It stands to
reason that it should be excluded from the gross estate of the
deceased.
has nothing to do with federal taxes. You're right, though, that in
many cases when someone has rights in property that terminate on his
death, it is not included in his gross estate. These are referred teo
as "terminable interests." However joint tenancy is not considered a terminable interest, though it certainly looks like one.
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
What's in or out of the probate estate is purely a state law
issue and has nothing to do with federal taxes. You're right,
though, that in many cases when someone has rights in property
that terminate on his death, it is not included in his gross
estate. These are referred teo as "terminable interests." However
joint tenancy is not considered a terminable interest, though it
certainly looks like one.
Stu, I was wondering if there is a list of excluded assets from
the gross estate. Your point that state laws may come into play is
an interesting point which I have not considered yet.
D L <debbie.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
What's in or out of the probate estate is purely a state law
issue and has nothing to do with federal taxes. You're right,
though, that in many cases when someone has rights in property
that terminate on his death, it is not included in his gross
estate. These are referred teo as "terminable interests." However
joint tenancy is not considered a terminable interest, though it
certainly looks like one.
Stu, I was wondering if there is a list of excluded assets fromThe rules of what is included or excluded from the gross estate are
the gross estate. Your point that state laws may come into play is
an interesting point which I have not considered yet.
contained in sections 2031 through 2044 of the US Tax Code, which can
be found here:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/subtitle-B/chapter- 11/subchapter-A/part-III
Section 2040 has the rule for joint tenancy property.
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
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