• Son Taking One Parent as Dependent (But Not the Other)?

    From honda.lioness@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Mar 5 10:09:16 2023
    A married couple is in their late 50s. They live with their 29-year-old son. The son has a decent job, and the son pays more than half of his parents' annual living expenses. The wife took a distribution of $7000 from her Traditional IRA. There is no
    penalty on account of using the money for qualified higher ed expenses.

    Can the son (lawfully) take the father as a dependent and file as Head of Household?

    What I have so far:
    Pub 4012 page B-10 directs one systematically to page C-1. Page C-1 says: "You can’t claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent unless that joint return is only to claim a refund of income tax withheld or estimated tax paid."

    If the couple files "Married Filing Jointly" (MFJ), checking off the father as a dependent to be taken by someone else (his son), the standard deduction drops so low that the couple owes taxes. Then per Pub 4012 page C-1, the son cannot take the father
    as a dependent.

    But what about having the couple file "Married Filing Separately" (so there will be two returns, one from dad and one from mom)?

    The first time MFS was attempted, the IRS software rejected the wife's return because she checked off the box indicating her husband could be taken as a dependent.

    I would appreciate citations to any IRS publications that address this.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to honda....@gmail.com on Sun Mar 5 23:35:50 2023
    On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 7:10:55 AM UTC-8, honda....@gmail.com wrote:
    A married couple is in their late 50s. They live with their 29-year-old son. The son has a decent job, and the son pays more than half of his parents' annual living expenses. The wife took a distribution of $7000 from her Traditional IRA. There is no
    penalty on account of using the money for qualified higher ed expenses.

    Can the son (lawfully) take the father as a dependent and file as Head of Household?

    What I have so far:
    Pub 4012 page B-10 directs one systematically to page C-1. Page C-1 says: "You can’t claim a married person who files a joint return as a dependent unless that joint return is only to claim a refund of income tax withheld or estimated tax paid."

    If the couple files "Married Filing Jointly" (MFJ), checking off the father as a dependent to be taken by someone else (his son), the standard deduction drops so low that the couple owes taxes. Then per Pub 4012 page C-1, the son cannot take the father
    as a dependent.

    But what about having the couple file "Married Filing Separately" (so there will be two returns, one from dad and one from mom)?

    The first time MFS was attempted, the IRS software rejected the wife's return because she checked off the box indicating her husband could be taken as a dependent.

    I would appreciate citations to any IRS publications that address this.

    If you are looking at Pub 4012 I assume you are either a VITA, TCE or AARP Taxaide user. As such, you would be using TaxSlayer software.
    Your first question asks if the son can claim his father as a dependent and file as HoH. The answer is Yes if the father is his Qualifying Relative and the son pays more than half of the household maintenance costs and the father does not file a joint
    return other than to request a refund of withheld and estimated taxes paid. Your second questions asks what if Mom and Dad file Married Separate returns. The answer is the same. He can still claim his father and file as HoH.
    Lastly, you say the mother's return as MFS gets rejected because she checked off the box indicating her husband could be taken as a dependent. Taxslayer does not ask that question. Taxslayer asks whether the taxpayer (it's Mom as it is her MFS return)
    can be claimed as a dependent. The box should not be checked as the son is not claiming his mother as a dependent.

    You also said that you read on page C-1 that the son cannot take his father. C-1 does not say that. C-1 defines who is a qualifying relative and gives you the rule about not filing a joint return other than to get a refund of taxes paid. Lastly, yes
    the standard deduction on a joint return gets reduced when a spouse can be claimed by someone else.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From honda.lioness@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Alan on Mon Mar 6 10:15:32 2023
    On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 10:38:40 PM UTC-6, Alan wrote:
    Lastly, you say the mother's return as MFS gets rejected because
    she checked off the box indicating her husband could be taken
    as a dependent. Taxslayer does not ask that question.
    Taxslayer asks whether the taxpayer (it's Mom as it is her MFS return)
    can be claimed as a dependent. The box should not be checked
    as the son is not claiming his mother as a dependent.

    Here is all I know: For an MFS return, for the taxpayer's spouse, Taxslayer software does show a box labeled "Spouse can be claimed as a dependent on someone else's return." On the taxpayer's (again, meaning the wife's) MFS return, the VITA site checked
    off this box. When checked off, another query appears asking "Yes" or "No" to "Taxpayer is claimed as a dependent on someone else's return. *"

    Doing what I describe above, Taxslayer ultimately generates a 1040 form showing that 'someone can claim your spouse as a dependent.' Following the steps above, and when submitted, the return ended up being rejected within like an hour.

    The VITA site did end up un-checking the box for the spouse (on the wife's return). The return was accepted.

    I hope it's a fluke with the Taxslayer software. 

    I do not need further input. Many thanks for giving your time to this.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From honda.lioness@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 6 18:37:51 2023
    An un-dated statement from Taxslayer on this subject:

    "In general, someone else should not be claiming you or your spouse (if you are filing Married Filing Jointly) as a dependent unless your return is only a claim for a refund and there would be no tax liability for either you or your spouse if you filed
    separate returns."

    -- https://support.taxslayer.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015700612-What-do-I-do-if-either-I-or-my-spouse-is-claimed-as-a-dependent-on-someone-else-s-return

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)