• State tax "rebate" -- Federal taxable income?

    From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 18 21:28:51 2023
    From the New York Times <https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/your- money/tax-refund-credit-irs.html>:

    "Also in 2022, some states with budget surpluses have been issuing
    tax rebates to residents. While there has been some confusion about
    whether such payments count as taxable income on 2022 federal
    returns, that is not the case, said Richard Auxier, senior policy
    associate at the Tax Policy Center. ..."

    I tried to find confirmation of this on the IRS website, but without
    success; I also failed to find anything relevant at the Tax Policy
    Center. (Possibly I didn't hit on the right search terms.) Can
    someone point me to the right place on irs.gov?

    Please note, we're not talking about a refund on an overpayment of
    taxes -- I know that would not be taxable income for me because I
    have taken the standard deduction for the past few years. But the
    "rebates" are giveaways from states to the public.

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to Stan Brown on Wed Jan 18 22:33:03 2023
    Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

    From the New York Times <https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/your-
    money/tax-refund-credit-irs.html>:

    "Also in 2022, some states with budget surpluses have been issuing
    tax rebates to residents. While there has been some confusion about
    whether such payments count as taxable income on 2022 federal
    returns, that is not the case, said Richard Auxier, senior policy
    associate at the Tax Policy Center. ..."

    I tried to find confirmation of this on the IRS website, but without
    success; I also failed to find anything relevant at the Tax Policy
    Center. (Possibly I didn't hit on the right search terms.) Can
    someone point me to the right place on irs.gov?

    Please note, we're not talking about a refund on an overpayment of
    taxes -- I know that would not be taxable income for me because I
    have taken the standard deduction for the past few years. But the
    "rebates" are giveaways from states to the public.

    In general in this situation, a state tax rebate is not taxable if the
    amount returned was not deducted on the federal tax return. If it was
    deducted and then the taxpayer got it back, it is taxed at that time.


    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Shankar Prasad@21:1/5 to Stuart O. Bronstein on Fri Jan 20 20:47:00 2023
    Stuart O. Bronstein wrote on 1/18/23 7:33 PM:
    Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

    From the New York Times <https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/13/your-
    money/tax-refund-credit-irs.html>:

    "Also in 2022, some states with budget surpluses have been issuing
    tax rebates to residents. While there has been some confusion about
    whether such payments count as taxable income on 2022 federal
    returns, that is not the case, said Richard Auxier, senior policy
    associate at the Tax Policy Center. ..."

    I tried to find confirmation of this on the IRS website, but without
    success; I also failed to find anything relevant at the Tax Policy
    Center. (Possibly I didn't hit on the right search terms.) Can
    someone point me to the right place on irs.gov?

    Please note, we're not talking about a refund on an overpayment of
    taxes -- I know that would not be taxable income for me because I
    have taken the standard deduction for the past few years. But the
    "rebates" are giveaways from states to the public.

    In general in this situation, a state tax rebate is not taxable if the
    amount returned was not deducted on the federal tax return. If it was deducted and then the taxpayer got it back, it is taxed at that time.

    California recently issued a "Middle Class Tax Rebate".
    CA FTB says it will issue 1099-Misc and that it *MAY* be federally taxable.

    https://www.ftb.ca.gov/about-ftb/newsroom/middle-class-tax-refund/help.html

    Thoughts ?

    Note that this rebate is not a *refund* of a personal overpayment.
    Nor it is proportional to the state tax paid - in fact, because the
    rebate amount phases out at higher incomes, it is *inversely*
    proportional to the state tax paid.

    -- Shankar Prasad

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Alan@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 26 16:00:58 2023
    California recently issued a "Middle Class Tax Rebate".
    CA FTB says it will issue 1099-Misc and that it *MAY* be federally taxable.

    https://www.ftb.ca.gov/about-ftb/newsroom/middle-class-tax-refund/help.html

    Thoughts ?

    Note that this rebate is not a *refund* of a personal overpayment.
    Nor it is proportional to the state tax paid - in fact, because the
    rebate amount phases out at higher incomes, it is *inversely*
    proportional to the state tax paid.

    -- Shankar Prasad
    --
    You can find the text of the law that created the MCTR at: https://legiscan.com/CA/text/AB192/2021

    What it says is that the payment is not a gift; it is not a refund of state income taxes; it is not compensation; it is not taxable by the California. It is financial relief for Californians adversely impacted by economic disruptions. The economic
    disruptions are listed as the increased costs for goods, including gas, due to inflation, supply chain disruptions, the effects of the COVID-19 emergency, and other economic pressures.
    So, why would the CA FTB decide to issue 1099-MISC information forms identifying the payments as taxable Other Income? I can only think of two reasons. 1. They asked the IRS and the IRS said the payments do not fall under the GWE (General Welfare
    Exclusion) or any other code section. 2. They did not ask the IRS and concluded by themselves that it does not meet the GWE or any other code section.
    The GWE is an IRS doctrine that says payments made under a legislatively provided social benefit program for promotion of the general welfare that is based on family or individual need are excludable from gross income. The GWE is generally used when
    their are public assistance or relief programs. I believe the conclusion to issue the 1099s was made because this legislation that does promote the general welfare fails the part about family or individual need.
    First, the payments are going to Californians with a CA AGI of up to $500,000. That means federal gross income in excess of $500,000. Second, the Californians in dire need of this were excluded from the payments. These are the people whose incomes were
    low enough so that having to file a 2020 tax return was not necessary. If they didn't, they got zip as it was too late to meet that 10/15/21 deadline.
    Look at the last series of relief (stimulus) payments from CA that were not taxable: The GSS and GSS II. The GSS required eligibility for the CA Earned Income Tax Credit or if an ITIN filer, income no higher than $75K. GSS II capped income at $75K. They
    were announced when there was still time to file a 2020 tax return before 10/15/21.
    Lastly, it cost the state a lot of money to send 1099-MISC forms to the feds and taxpayers. I don't think they would be issuing them without being convinced that the payments fail the GWE test or some other section of the Internal Revenue Code that
    excludes income..

    All that being said, there may be another way to exclude the income. The CA Constitution sets appropriations limits for money coming from the General Fund. Certain payments are excluded from this appropriations limit. Here is what another section of the
    bill says:

    SEC. 9. The Legislature finds and declares that proceeds of taxes included in the calculation of the state appropriations limit under Article XIII B of the California Constitution includes, but is not limited to, certain motor vehicle fuel and diesel
    fuel taxes, personal income taxes, sales and use taxes, bank and corporation taxes, insurance taxes, alcohol taxes, and certain cigarette taxes. It is the intent of the Legislature that the refunds provided for in this act constitute a refund of these
    taxes, excluded from appropriations subject to limitation, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 8 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution.

    The CA Legislative Counsel Digest says this about Sec. 9.

    (7) The California Constitution generally prohibits the total annual appropriations subject to limitation of the state and each local government from exceeding the appropriations limit of the entity of government for the prior fiscal year, adjusted for
    the change in the cost of living and the change in population, and prescribes procedures for making adjustments to the appropriations limit. The California Constitution excludes certain specified appropriations as exempt from this total annual limit,
    including tax refunds.
    This bill would provide that the appropriations made by the bill are appropriations for purposes of refunding state tax liability incurred by Californians during the 2021–22 fiscal year, are not subject to the annual appropriations limit set by the
    California Constitution. The bill would make related findings and declarations.

    So, it appears that the expenditures by the state for this refund are refunds of certain excise taxes and sales and use taxes. (Another section of the bill states that is not a refund of personal income taxes.) One might conclude that as long as one did
    not receive any tax benefit by deducting those taxes on the federal return, that the payment is nothing more than a nontaxable rebate or to put another way, a reduction in the price of goods and services purchased.

    All of the preceding should not be construed as tax advice.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Maria Ku@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 26 19:54:21 2023
    There is a good article on this topic here:
    https://fogelcpa.com/tax-articles


    ========================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
    Personally I think the article you are referring to is poorly reasoned
    and the legal analysis is poor. That doesn't mean the conclusion is
    wrong - I didn't research it to find out for myself. I'll leave that to
    your own conclusions.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)