• 10% tax on early distributions from a Roth

    From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 9 14:54:36 2022
    Pages 31-32 of Pub 590-B say that there's a separate 5-year period
    for each conversion from traditional to Roth IRA, and early
    distributions "may" have to pay a 10% additional tax. Page 32 says
    "you may not have to pay the 10% additional tax in the following
    situations," and the first one listed is "You have reached age 50½."
    Those "may"s make me nervous.

    I'm over 72, and I established my Roth in the 2015 tax year. On the
    flowchart on page 34, I can answer Yes to the first two boxes "Has it
    been at least 5 years from the beginning of the year for which you
    first set up and contributed to a Roth IRA?" and "Were you at least
    59½ years old at the time of the distribution?". Therefore, according
    to the flowchart, _every_ distribution from my Roth will be a
    qualified distribution.

    If I do a Roth conversion but then need the money only a couple of
    years later, can I rely on the flowchart, with no need to worry about
    the "may"s on pages 31-32?

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --
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  • From honda.lioness@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Stan Brown on Wed Nov 9 17:56:42 2022
    On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:55:48 PM UTC-6, Stan Brown wrote:
    Pages 31-32 of Pub 590-B say that there's a separate 5-year period
    for each conversion from traditional to Roth IRA, and early
    distributions "may" have to pay a 10% additional tax. Page 32 says
    "you may not have to pay the 10% additional tax in the following
    situations," and the first one listed is "You have reached age 50½."
    Those "may"s make me nervous.

    I'm over 72, and I established my Roth in the 2015 tax year. On the
    flowchart on page 34, I can answer Yes to the first two boxes "Has it
    been at least 5 years from the beginning of the year for which you
    first set up and contributed to a Roth IRA?" and "Were you at least
    59½ years old at the time of the distribution?". Therefore, according
    to the flowchart, _every_ distribution from my Roth will be a
    qualified distribution.

    If I do a Roth conversion but then need the money only a couple of
    years later, can I rely on the flowchart, with no need to worry about
    the "may"s on pages 31-32?


    I am looking at the online HTML version of Pub 590-b at https://www.irs.gov/publications/p590b. At the latter site,
    look at the part that, like pages 31-21, starts with:

    "Exceptions. You may not have to pay the 10% additional tax
    in the following situations."

    The latter is a //sub-section// of the part titled "Additional Tax
    on Early Distributions." Now look at the first paragraph below
    the "Additional Tax on Early Distributions" section. This paragraph states:

    "If you receive a distribution that isn't a qualified distribution, you may
    have to pay the 10% additional tax on early distributions as explained
    in the following paragraphs."

    Focus on the phrase "qualified distribution." For the definition of qualified distribution, scroll down to the section titled, "What Are Qualified Distributions?"
    This section explains that your distributions are "qualified distributions." This
    means that what you quoted from pages 31-32 does not apply to your distributions.

    The reasoning behind your not having to pay the aforementioned 10%
    penalty is that, if you had never done the conversion from your traditional
    to the Roth IRA, but instead took a distribution from the traditional IRA after reaching age 59.5, you would face no penalty (all other things equal). The distribution from the traditional IRA would simply be taxable as income
    for the year you took the distribution, without any penalty.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From Stan Brown@21:1/5 to Stan Brown on Sun Nov 13 12:56:52 2022
    On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 14:54:36 EST, Stan Brown wrote:
    (regarding the online Pub 590-B)
    On the flowchart on page 34, I can answer Yes to the first two
    boxes "Has it been at least 5 years from the beginning of the year
    for which you first set up and contributed to a Roth IRA?" and
    "Were you at least 59½ years old at the time of the distribution?". Therefore, according to the flowchart, _every_ distribution from my
    Roth will be a qualified distribution.

    If I do a Roth conversion but then need the money only a couple of
    years later, can I rely on the flowchart, with no need to worry about
    the "may"s on pages 31-32?


    On Wed, 9 Nov 2022 17:56:42 EST, honda....@gmail.com wrote:
    "If you receive a distribution that isn't a qualified distribution, you may
    have to pay the 10% additional tax on early distributions as explained
    in the following paragraphs."

    Thanks very much. This is what I missed in the logic: if it's a
    qualified distribution, then it's always tax free and no other
    conditions must be met.

    Because I didn't read that crucial sentence correctly, I thought to
    be tax free, it must be a qualified distribution _and_ meet
    additional tests. Now I understand: The other conditions may exempt
    all or part of a NON-qualified distribution, but if the distribution
    is qualified then the other conditions are irrelevant.

    --
    Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
    Shikata ga nai...

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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