• 'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 9 21:48:56 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BeamMeUpScotty@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Fri Sep 10 13:47:55 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/10/21 1:23 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote: >>> 'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for' >>>
    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect
    some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to
    pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he
    is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on these
    matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you
    get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help
    you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination mandate. I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines.

    Then you believe there was nothing wrong with the U.S. Military
    "Tuskegee" forced medical procedures or the NAZIS forced medical procedures.


    At least we know where you stand... you're farther down the line from
    sociopath and maybe past psychopath on the scale of homocidal
    narcissistic megalomaniacs.



    --
    That's Karma

    *The first rule of SURVIVAL CLUB is we talk about it*
    We hate censorship. Never trust what Democrats or Marxists tell you.
    Make them prove it with actual verifiable facts and science. And if you
    didn't find the duplicitous lies in what the Marxist-Democrats told you
    then you didn't dig deep enough. The *Gruber Doctrine* is the
    Marxist-Democrat plan that says it's "to the Democrats advantage to have
    a lack of transparency and then lie about everything". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI



    *The next rule of SURVIVAL CLUB is*
    200 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=36&v=UXA--dj2-CY&feature=emb_logo

    Son of a bitch, NOT a smidgen of corruption...???

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to bigdog on Fri Sep 10 13:23:40 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the final
    say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination
    mandate. I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html


    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the
    Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older, it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or not for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm
    others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly
    conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has
    made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination.
    Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing
    last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal
    workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID
    outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one
    time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the
    ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents have an obligation to protect their children's health and life, which means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their
    rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is
    endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty), whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left
    standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court
    explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his
    liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the
    safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of
    ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the
    deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American
    citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate vaccination against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard for a constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many
    people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools filing lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they mishandled the Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show plainly that vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the
    faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people
    won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the
    economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to
    potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that can only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state and local governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York and San Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more elusive
    killer than it already is.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to bigdog on Fri Sep 10 16:52:54 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote: >>>> 'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL >>>> workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for' >>>>
    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested >>>> weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the
    final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states and the people. The default is the government doesn't have the power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to
    work.

    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the Vietnam conscription (the draft)?



    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal government does far more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps with five reliable conservatives on the court that might change but I'
    ll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.

    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of vaccination.


    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html
    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In the end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day.


    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the
    Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older, it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or not for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm
    others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly
    conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is so clear. >>
    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has
    made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination.
    Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing
    last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal
    workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID
    outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one
    time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the
    ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents have an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their
    rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life, liberty, or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is
    endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty), whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left
    standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court
    explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his
    liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the
    safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of
    ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the
    deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American
    citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many
    people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they mishandled the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show plainly that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the
    faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people
    won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the
    economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to
    potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that can only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state and local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York and San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults at risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for children to develop serious illnesses from the
    coronavirus.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html

    I'm not sure the courts will see this as a compelling argument in favor of mandatory vaccinations. It SCOTUS takes up the case, I would bet the current court would strike down mandatory vaccinations.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to bigdog on Fri Sep 10 18:59:00 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote: >>>> bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote: >>>>>> 'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL >>>>>> workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for' >>>>>>
    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested >>>>>> weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated >>>>>>
    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the
    final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination >>>> mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states and the people. The default is the government doesn't have the power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed
    to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"

    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the United
    States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the Congress can
    "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the Congress can do it
    through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can grab
    money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal government does far more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps with five reliable conservatives on the court that might change but
    I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right to >>>> mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether they have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be a question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing vaccine >>>> on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html
    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In the end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day.

    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 vaccine >>>>
    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the
    Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older, it's time >>>> for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for people >>>> taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that there is >>>> a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or not for >>>> adults and a right to determine whether children can be vaccinated. That >>>> is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm
    others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly
    conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has
    made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination.
    Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing
    last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal
    workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and public >>>> health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID
    outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates against >>>> a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one
    time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no longer >>>> the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the
    ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents have an >>>> obligation to protect their children's health and life, which means that >>>> the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to children >>>> should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their
    rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which protect >>>> speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life, liberty, or >>>> property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a snapshot >>>> of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is
    endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision in the >>>> case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes >>>> the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty), whether in >>>> respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may >>>> be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left
    standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected conduct >>>> to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling "Fire" >>>> in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as attendees >>>> race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the government >>>> can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court
    explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in Jacobson, >>>> where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his
    liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected >>>> to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the
    safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of
    ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the
    deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American
    citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate vaccination >>>> against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard for a >>>> constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a government does >>>> not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many
    people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools filing >>>> lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and individuals >>>> suing the World Health Organization contending that they mishandled the >>>> Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show plainly that >>>> vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the
    faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people
    won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the
    economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that they have >>>> a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to
    potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme Court >>>> has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that can only >>>> be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state and local >>>> governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York and San >>>> Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults at risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for children to develop serious illnesses from the
    coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html
    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would run contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html
    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children. Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths in the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots,
    masks, or social distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html
    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be mandatory and then turn around and point out that vaccinated people can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants to
    kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nic@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Fri Sep 10 19:08:26 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty
    Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds >>>>>>> of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to
    wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or >>>>>>> tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen
    Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I
    expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not
    going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do
    the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the
    final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If
    you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to
    help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not
    specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states
    and the people. The default is the government doesn't have the
    power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
    Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"

    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the
    United States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the
    Congress can "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the
    Congress can do it through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can
    grab money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the
    dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal
    government does far more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps
    with five reliable conservatives on the court that might change but
    I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the
    right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right
    of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the
    Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether they
    have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be a
    question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing
    vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The
    writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In the
    end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day.

    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19
    vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the
    Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older,
    it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for
    people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses for >>>>> not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that
    there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or not
    for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be
    vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm
    others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly
    conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is
    so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has >>>>> made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination. >>>>> Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing >>>>> last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal
    workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and
    public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID
    outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better understand >>>>> that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates
    against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one
    time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no
    longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the
    ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents
    have an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which
    means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to
    children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their >>>>> rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which
    protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life,
    liberty, or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a
    snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is
    endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision
    in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who had >>>>> refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty for >>>>> all could not exist under the operation of a principle which
    recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty),
    whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury
    that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice Amy >>>>> Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left
    standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected
    conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling
    "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as
    attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause protects >>>>> the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the
    government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court
    explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in
    Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his
    liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be
    subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the
    safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of
    ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the
    deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American
    citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate
    vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard
    for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a
    government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many
    people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools
    filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and
    individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they
    mishandled the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show plainly
    that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the
    faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people >>>>> won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the
    economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that
    they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to
    potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme
    Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that can
    only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state and
    local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York and
    San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more elusive >>>>> killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established
    that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults
    at risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for
    children to develop serious illnesses from the coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html

    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would
    run contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html

    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that
    unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children.
    Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths in
    the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots, masks, or
    social distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people
    unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory and then turn around  and point out that vaccinated people
    can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.



    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think real
    hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 10 16:13:45 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:WqR_I.43063$Ki4b.28276@fx05.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be mandatory >> and then turn
    around and point out that vaccinated people can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    The same is true of the vaccinated.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nic@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Fri Sep 10 19:28:25 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/10/21 7:16 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty
    Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M >>>>>>>>> unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on
    two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to >>>>>>>>> wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your >>>>>>>>> refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated >>>>>>>>> or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who >>>>>>>>> refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen >>>>>>>>> Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I
    expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not
    going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do >>>>>>>> the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the
    final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If >>>>>>>> you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything >>>>>>>> to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers
    not specifically granted to the federal government belong to the
    states and the people. The default is the government doesn't have
    the power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
    Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"

    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the
    United States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the
    Congress can "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the
    Congress can do it through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can
    grab money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the
    dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal
    government does far more than the Constitution authorizes.
    Perhaps with five reliable conservatives on the court that might
    change but I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the
    right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment. >>>>>> Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The
    right of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the
    Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether
    they have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be
    a question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing
    vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The
    writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In
    the end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day. >>>>>>
    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the
    Covid-19 vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the >>>>>>> Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older,
    it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine
    for people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid
    excuses for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that
    there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or
    not for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be
    vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm >>>>>>> others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly >>>>>>> conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination
    is so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, >>>>>>> has
    made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require
    vaccination.
    Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news
    briefing
    last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal >>>>>>> workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and
    public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID >>>>>>> outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better
    understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates
    against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one >>>>>>> time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is
    no longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the >>>>>>> ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents
    have an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which
    means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to
    children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke
    their
    rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which
    protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life,
    liberty, or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a
    snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is >>>>>>> endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision >>>>>>> in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man
    who had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real
    liberty for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which
    recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty),
    whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury
    that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when
    Justice Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left >>>>>>> standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected >>>>>>> conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling >>>>>>> "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as
    attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause
    protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the
    government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court >>>>>>> explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in
    Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his >>>>>>> liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be
    subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the >>>>>>> safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of >>>>>>> ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the >>>>>>> deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American >>>>>>> citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate
    vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the
    standard for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a
    government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many >>>>>>> people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools >>>>>>> filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and
    individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they
    mishandled the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show
    plainly that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the >>>>>>> faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that
    people
    won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the >>>>>>> economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that
    they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to >>>>>>> potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme >>>>>>> Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that
    can only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state
    and local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York
    and San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more
    elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be
    established that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of
    children and adults at risk. That would be a hard case to make
    since it is rare for children to develop serious illnesses from
    the coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html

    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would
    run contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html

    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that
    unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children.
    Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths
    in the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots, masks, or
    social distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people
    unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated
    people.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory and then turn around  and point out that vaccinated
    people can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new
    variants to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the
    original variant.



    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?


    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.

    It is useless to try to educated fucking idiotic boneheads like you.
    Let me repeat myself one more time:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are
    such things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the
    pore size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static
    electricity created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the
    virus particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the
    pore diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller
    particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your
    body depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to
    recognize the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response
    before the COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the
    latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


        How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an
    immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all
    viruses and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the
    immune system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders,
    produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria
    or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens
    immediately and attack aggressively well before the pathogen can
    spread and cause sickness.


         The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be
    eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.













    You keep saying that same story, almost like a mantra, explicitly
    stating   that you believe that modern science has our best interest,
    and speaking of interest and profit, this money and power grab will
    fail, because like a virus spreads in game theory, 1 unvaxxd meets 5
    unvaxxd and next thing you know it is the population.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Nic on Fri Sep 10 19:16:46 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty
    Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on
    two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to >>>>>>>> wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your >>>>>>>> refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated
    or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen >>>>>>>> Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I
    expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not
    going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do
    the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the
    final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If
    you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything
    to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not
    specifically granted to the federal government belong to the
    states and the people. The default is the government doesn't have
    the power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
    Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"

    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the
    United States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the
    Congress can "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the
    Congress can do it through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can
    grab money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the
    dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal
    government does far more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps
    with five reliable conservatives on the court that might change
    but I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the
    right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right
    of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the
    Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether
    they have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be a
    question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing
    vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The
    writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In
    the end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day.

    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19
    vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the >>>>>> Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older,
    it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for
    people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses
    for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that
    there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or
    not for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be
    vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm >>>>>> others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly >>>>>> conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is
    so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has >>>>>> made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination. >>>>>> Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing >>>>>> last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal >>>>>> workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and
    public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID >>>>>> outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better
    understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates
    against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one >>>>>> time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no
    longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the >>>>>> ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents
    have an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which
    means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to
    children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their >>>>>> rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which
    protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life,
    liberty, or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a
    snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is
    endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision
    in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who
    had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty
    for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which
    recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty),
    whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury
    that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice
    Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left >>>>>> standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected
    conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling
    "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as
    attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause
    protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the
    government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court
    explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in
    Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his >>>>>> liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be
    subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the >>>>>> safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of
    ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the >>>>>> deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American
    citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate
    vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard
    for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a
    government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many >>>>>> people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools
    filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and
    individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they
    mishandled the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show
    plainly that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the >>>>>> faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people >>>>>> won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the >>>>>> economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that
    they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to >>>>>> potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme
    Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that
    can only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state
    and local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York
    and San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more
    elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established
    that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults
    at risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for
    children to develop serious illnesses from the coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html

    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would
    run contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html

    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that
    unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children.
    Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths in
    the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots, masks, or
    social distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people
    unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people. >>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory and then turn around and point out that vaccinated people
    can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.



    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?


    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic carriers.

    It is useless to try to educated fucking idiotic boneheads like you. Let
    me repeat myself one more time:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static electricity
    created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the virus
    particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore
    diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to
    establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the
    latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to recognize
    the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response before the
    COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


    How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all viruses
    and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the immune
    system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders, produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens immediately and
    attack aggressively well before the pathogen can spread and cause sickness.


    The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 10 16:22:26 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants >>> to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic carriers.

    Cite?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to max headroom on Fri Sep 10 21:40:06 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants >>>> to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic carriers.
    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    I cannot waste my life to show you the proof of everything.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 10 19:16:27 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic carriers.

    Cite?

    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    Then it should be easy, right?

    I cannot waste my life to show you the proof of everything.

    I acknowledge your failure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Vincent@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 00:19:44 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/10/2021 8:40 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    I cannot waste my life to show you the proof of everything.

    Golly Gee! Does that mean you will go away and leave us to our own
    devices? God Bless America again. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BeamMeUpScotty@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 07:59:27 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/10/21 7:16 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty
    Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M >>>>>>>>> unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on
    two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to >>>>>>>>> wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your >>>>>>>>> refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated >>>>>>>>> or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who >>>>>>>>> refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen >>>>>>>>> Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I
    expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not
    going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do >>>>>>>> the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the
    final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If >>>>>>>> you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything >>>>>>>> to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not >>>>>> specifically granted to the federal government belong to the
    states and the people. The default is the government doesn't have
    the power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
    Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"

    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the
    United States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the
    Congress can "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the
    Congress can do it through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can
    grab money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the
    dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal
    government does far more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps >>>>>> with five reliable conservatives on the court that might change
    but I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the
    right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment. >>>>>> Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right >>>>>> of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the
    Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether
    they have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be a
    question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing
    vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The
    writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In
    the end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day. >>>>>>
    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 >>>>>>> vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the >>>>>>> Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older,
    it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for >>>>>>> people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses >>>>>>> for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that
    there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or
    not for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be
    vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm >>>>>>> others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly >>>>>>> conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is >>>>>>> so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has >>>>>>> made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination. >>>>>>> Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing >>>>>>> last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal >>>>>>> workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and
    public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID >>>>>>> outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better
    understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates
    against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one >>>>>>> time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no >>>>>>> longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the >>>>>>> ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents
    have an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which
    means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to
    children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their >>>>>>> rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which
    protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life,
    liberty, or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a
    snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is >>>>>>> endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision >>>>>>> in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who >>>>>>> had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty >>>>>>> for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which
    recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty),
    whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury
    that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice >>>>>>> Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left >>>>>>> standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected >>>>>>> conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling >>>>>>> "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as
    attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause
    protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the
    government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court >>>>>>> explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in
    Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his >>>>>>> liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be
    subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the >>>>>>> safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of >>>>>>> ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the >>>>>>> deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American >>>>>>> citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate
    vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard >>>>>>> for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a
    government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many >>>>>>> people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools >>>>>>> filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and
    individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they
    mishandled the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show
    plainly that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the >>>>>>> faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people >>>>>>> won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the >>>>>>> economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that
    they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to >>>>>>> potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme >>>>>>> Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that
    can only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state
    and local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York
    and San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more
    elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established >>>>>> that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults >>>>>> at risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for
    children to develop serious illnesses from the coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html

    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would
    run contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html

    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that
    unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children.
    Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths in
    the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots, masks, or
    social distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people
    unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people. >>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory and then turn around  and point out that vaccinated people
    can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.



    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?


    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.


    You told us that the vaccinated don't become symptomatic when they get
    the DELTA virus.... which indicates that it's the people getting the
    "FAKE VACCINE" who are the spreaders. The "vaccine" created 80 million *TYPHOID MARRY* super spreaders with the *DELTA STRAIN*.

    They get the virus and shed the virus and their symptoms are reduced so
    they think they're protected when all they're getting is a treatment for
    the symptoms. And it doesn't reduce their viral load enough to stop the spread.





    --
    That's Karma

    *The first rule of SURVIVAL CLUB is we talk about it*
    We hate censorship. Never trust what Democrats or Marxists tell you.
    Make them prove it with actual verifiable facts and science. And if you
    didn't find the duplicitous lies in what the Marxist-Democrats told you
    then you didn't dig deep enough. The *Gruber Doctrine* is the
    Marxist-Democrat plan that says it's "to the Democrats advantage to have
    a lack of transparency and then lie about everything". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI



    *The next rule of SURVIVAL CLUB is*
    224 - Democrats don't believe in biological gender but they march for
    women's rights. Which means Democrats are delusional.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 08:11:30 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:ywM_I.40638$64ef.33821@fx13.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote: >>> 'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for' >>>
    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some
    of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to
    know how much power the President has to do the things he is proposing.
    The courts are going to have the final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get
    deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you.
    You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination mandate.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
    to the people."
    The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Now... show me the enumerated power whereby the federal government can
    demand vaccinations.

    Maybe you should look at the facts rather than relying on your ignorance of such?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 08:14:31 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:HAP_I.212101$Fd_a.8560@fx08.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of
    ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait
    for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated >>>>>
    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some >>>> of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to
    know how much power the President has to do the things he is proposing. >>>> The courts are going to have the final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get >>>> deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you.
    You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not
    specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states and
    the people. The default is the government doesn't have the power to do
    it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.

    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the Vietnam conscription (the draft)?



    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the dereliction of
    duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal government does far more than
    the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps with five reliable conservatives on
    the court that might change but I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they enlist.
    For one they become subject to military justice. The right of free speech
    also gets curtailed. I would bet that as Commander-in-Chief, Biden can
    order military personnel to get vaccinated. Not sure he has the same
    power over civilians.

    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The employer
    has the right to demand from the employees proof of vaccination.

    Actually they don't under federal HIPAA laws.

    Are you suggesting the federal government would/should violate their OWN
    laws?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to max headroom on Sat Sep 11 08:24:34 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "max headroom" <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote in message news:shgp4v$4gc$1@dont-email.me...
    In news:WqR_I.43063$Ki4b.28276@fx05.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory
    and then turn
    around and point out that vaccinated people can still die from the
    disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new
    variants to
    kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    The same is true of the vaccinated.

    If not more so..... because they don't take any precautions because well... they are vaccinated.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 08:21:55 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1...
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe >>>>>>>> wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M >>>>>>>>> unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds >>>>>>>>> of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to >>>>>>>>> wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your >>>>>>>>> refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or >>>>>>>>> tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who >>>>>>>>> refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen >>>>>>>>> Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect >>>>>>>> some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to >>>>>>>> pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things >>>>>>>> he is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on >>>>>>>> these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you >>>>>>>> get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help >>>>>>>> you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not >>>>>> specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states >>>>>> and the people. The default is the government doesn't have the power >>>>>> to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use >>>> shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"

    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the United
    States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the Congress can
    "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the Congress can do it
    through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can grab
    money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the dereliction >>>>>> of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal government does far
    more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps with five reliable
    conservatives on the court that might change but I'll believe it when >>>>>> I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right >>>>>>> to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment. >>>>>> Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right of >>>>>> free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the
    Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether they
    have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be a
    question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing
    vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html
    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The
    writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In the >>>>>> end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day.

    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 >>>>>>> vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the >>>>>>> Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older, it's >>>>>>> time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for >>>>>>> people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses >>>>>>> for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that there >>>>>>> is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or not >>>>>>> for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be vaccinated. >>>>>>> That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm >>>>>>> others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly >>>>>>> conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is so >>>>>>> clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has >>>>>>> made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination. >>>>>>> Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing >>>>>>> last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal >>>>>>> workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and
    public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID >>>>>>> outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better
    understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates
    against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one >>>>>>> time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no >>>>>>> longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the >>>>>>> ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents have >>>>>>> an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which means >>>>>>> that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to
    children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their >>>>>>> rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which
    protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life, liberty, >>>>>>> or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a
    snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is >>>>>>> endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision in >>>>>>> the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who >>>>>>> had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty >>>>>>> for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which
    recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty),
    whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that >>>>>>> may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice >>>>>>> Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left >>>>>>> standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected >>>>>>> conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling >>>>>>> "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as
    attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause
    protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the
    government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court >>>>>>> explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in
    Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his >>>>>>> liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be
    subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the >>>>>>> safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of >>>>>>> ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the >>>>>>> deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American >>>>>>> citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate
    vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard >>>>>>> for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a government >>>>>>> does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many >>>>>>> people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools >>>>>>> filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and
    individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they mishandled >>>>>>> the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show plainly >>>>>>> that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the >>>>>>> faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people >>>>>>> won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the >>>>>>> economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate
    vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that they >>>>>>> have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to >>>>>>> potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme >>>>>>> Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that can >>>>>>> only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state and >>>>>>> local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York and >>>>>>> San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more
    elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established >>>>>> that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults at >>>>>> risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for children >>>>>> to develop serious illnesses from the coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html
    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would run >>>> contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html
    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that
    unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children.
    Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths in
    the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots, masks, or social >>>> distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people
    unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people. >>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html
    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory and then turn around and point out that vaccinated people
    can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants to >>> kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.



    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think real
    hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning out the
    variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?


    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.

    You mean like the vaccinated who are super spreaders because they feel they can't spread the disease because they have been vaccinated?

    It is useless to try to educated fucking idiotic boneheads like you. Let
    me repeat myself one more time:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.

    Please cite the peer reviewed studies that 3 layers of random cloth has been shown to reduce the spread of an airborne virus.

    That's why there are such things as medical mask and surgical mask in the >hospital.

    Yea, and if you're dealing with an airborne virus nothing less than an N95
    mask is acceptable. Oh, but we're not suppose to buy or use those because
    the limited supply is needed for medical workers....

    Yea, THEY require an N95 mask to be protected.... so what makes you think a
    few pieces of porous cloth offers ANY protection?

    Never mind that N95 masks are single use and not designed or tested for multiple uses over extended periods of time like your stupid cloth mask.

    Oh, and why does the packaging for those masks specifically state "Not for medical use" if they are good enough to stop an airborne virus?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 08:23:24 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new
    variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant. >>>> Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.
    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious much
    like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as easily as
    the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Sat Sep 11 12:38:39 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new
    variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original
    variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the >>>>> unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning >>>>> out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.
    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...



    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static electricity
    created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the virus
    particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore
    diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to
    establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the
    latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to recognize
    the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response before the
    COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


    How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all viruses
    and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the immune
    system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders, produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens immediately and
    attack aggressively well before the pathogen can spread and cause sickness.


    The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Vincent on Sat Sep 11 12:35:07 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Vincent wrote on 9/11/2021 1:19 AM:
    On 9/10/2021 8:40 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    I cannot waste my life to show you the proof of everything.

    Golly Gee! Does that mean you will go away and leave us to our own
    devices? God Bless America again. ;-)


    Stop lying to yourself. You know my posts are your spiritual manna. You
    crave for them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to BeamMeUpScotty on Sat Sep 11 12:45:32 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    BeamMeUpScotty wrote on 9/11/2021 7:59 AM:
    On 9/10/21 7:16 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe >>>>>>> wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty
    Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!! >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M >>>>>>>>>> unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on
    two-thirds of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to >>>>>>>>>> wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your >>>>>>>>>> refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated >>>>>>>>>>
    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all >>>>>>>>>> businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated >>>>>>>>>> or tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who >>>>>>>>>> refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen >>>>>>>>>> Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get >>>>>>>>>> vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I
    expect some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not >>>>>>>>> going to pretend to know how much power the President has to do >>>>>>>>> the things he is proposing. The courts are going to have the >>>>>>>>> final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If >>>>>>>>> you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything >>>>>>>>> to help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination
    mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not >>>>>>> specifically granted to the federal government belong to the
    states and the people. The default is the government doesn't have >>>>>>> the power to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.
    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam
    conscription (the draft)?
    Article 1, Section 8 gives Congress the power to raise an army.

    "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that
    Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;"
    I think the original purpose of Article 1, Section 8 is that the
    United States was not supposed to have a standing army, so the
    Congress can "raise an army" when needed, but it doesn't mean the
    Congress can do it through conscription.

    "Raise an army" is not the same as "conscription".

    When you are authorized to "raise some funds" doesn't mean you can
    grab money from other people's pockets.

    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the
    dereliction of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal
    government does far more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps >>>>>>> with five reliable conservatives on the court that might change
    but I'll believe it when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the
    right to
    mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment. >>>>>>> Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they >>>>>>> enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right >>>>>>> of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.
    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.
    Governments don't have rights. Governments have powers. Under the
    Constitution, the federal government has limited powers. Whether
    they have the power to force an employee to get vaccinated will be a >>>>> question for the courts to decide.

    This article has some precedents of federal government forcing >>>>>>>> vaccine
    on people:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/opinions/unvaccinated-cant-use-constitutional-rights-excuse-hamilton-offit/index.html

    Note the key word below the title of the article. OPINION. The
    writers have their opinion. Others have an opposing opinion. In
    the end it will be the opinion of the courts that carries the day. >>>>>>>
    You do not have the 'constitutional right' to refuse the Covid-19 >>>>>>>> vaccine

    (CNN)Now that the US Food and Drug Administration has approved the >>>>>>>> Pfizer/ BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older, >>>>>>>> it's time
    for all governments across the country to mandate the vaccine for >>>>>>>> people
    taking part in indoor activities. There are no more valid excuses >>>>>>>> for
    not being vaccinated other than health reasons.

    One frequently heard pushback against vaccine mandates is that >>>>>>>> there is
    a "constitutional right" to choose whether to be vaccinated or >>>>>>>> not for
    adults and a right to determine whether children can be
    vaccinated. That
    is a non-starter in the midst of a pandemic.

    The Constitution is not a suicide pact guaranteeing a right to harm >>>>>>>> others. The government has latitude to protect citizens from deadly >>>>>>>> conditions, especially when the science supporting vaccination is >>>>>>>> so clear.

    The bioethicist, professor Arthur Caplan of New York University, has >>>>>>>> made a compelling case for the moral mandate to require vaccination. >>>>>>>> Appearing with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio in a news briefing >>>>>>>> last month to address the city mandating vaccines for all municipal >>>>>>>> workers, he argued that the new policy "makes good, ethical and >>>>>>>> public
    health sense" and that "it will help all of us by keeping the COVID >>>>>>>> outbreak controlled."

    We agree, but also believe that the public needs to better
    understand
    that there is no constitutional right to avoid vaccine mandates >>>>>>>> against
    a deadly disease.

    With respect to children, parents do not have carte blanche. At one >>>>>>>> time, children were the property of their fathers, but that is no >>>>>>>> longer
    the case. Children are "persons" under the Constitution, and as the >>>>>>>> ruling in Prince v. Massachusetts held, parents do not have a
    constitutional right to make martyrs of their children. Parents >>>>>>>> have an
    obligation to protect their children's health and life, which
    means that
    the school district mandates that reduce the risk of death to
    children
    should be enforceable, period.

    Those challenging the government mandates are likely to invoke their >>>>>>>> rights under the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments, which >>>>>>>> protect
    speech, religion, and a right not to "be deprived of life,
    liberty, or
    property, without due process of law." Their view ends up as a >>>>>>>> snapshot
    of themselves; nonetheless, rights can be limited if a person is >>>>>>>> endangering another.

    It's a sentiment that came up in the 1905 Supreme Court decision >>>>>>>> in the
    case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The court ruled against a man who >>>>>>>> had
    refused to be vaccinated against smallpox, stating: "Real liberty >>>>>>>> for
    all could not exist under the operation of a principle which
    recognizes
    the right of each individual person to use his own (liberty),
    whether in
    respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury >>>>>>>> that may
    be done to others." That same principle was apparent when Justice >>>>>>>> Amy
    Coney Barrett, who is thought to be a strong rights-advocate, left >>>>>>>> standing Indiana University's vaccine mandate.

    The government may prohibit otherwise constitutionally protected >>>>>>>> conduct
    to save the lives of others.

    For example, it is well-settled that governments can ban yelling >>>>>>>> "Fire"
    in a crowded theater, because such speech can lead to death as >>>>>>>> attendees
    race to the exits. True, the First Amendment's Speech Clause
    protects
    the "freedom of speech," but there is no requirement that the
    government
    can't prevent scenarios likely leading to death.

    The same reasoning applies to vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court >>>>>>>> explicitly upheld vaccine mandates against deadly diseases in
    Jacobson,
    where it explained: "the rights of the individual in respect of his >>>>>>>> liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be
    subjected
    to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the >>>>>>>> safety of the general public may demand." We live in a country of >>>>>>>> ordered liberty, not individual autonomy that paves the way to the >>>>>>>> deaths of others. In short, it is not the right of every American >>>>>>>> citizen to catch and transmit a potentially fatal infection.

    We would posit, further, that governments that don't mandate
    vaccination
    against Covid-19 are skating very close to violating the standard >>>>>>>> for a
    constitutional right to "life" without due process. If a
    government does
    not take reasonable action to prevent the likely deaths of so many >>>>>>>> people, there will be more lawsuits. Already, we've seen schools >>>>>>>> filing
    lawsuits against former Trump administration officials and
    individuals
    suing the World Health Organization contending that they
    mishandled the
    Covid-19 response.

    The depth of the science and the worldwide experience show
    plainly that
    vaccination is the best protection from this pandemic, and that the >>>>>>>> faster we reach herd immunity the more likely it will be that people >>>>>>>> won't die from this virus, hospitals won't be overburdened, and the >>>>>>>> economy will fully recover.

    It is reckless at this point for the government not to mandate >>>>>>>> vaccination. Some politicians have falsely told Americans that >>>>>>>> they have
    a constitutional right to refuse vaccination. This is a license to >>>>>>>> potentially infect others with a deadly disease when the Supreme >>>>>>>> Court
    has consistently held otherwise.

    Children and adults have a constitutional right to "life" that >>>>>>>> can only
    be protected if there is mass vaccination. It's time for state >>>>>>>> and local
    governments to issue vaccine mandates and fines -- as New York >>>>>>>> and San
    Francisco have -- before this virus mutates into an even more
    elusive
    killer than it already is.

    For this last argument to carry weight, it needs to be established >>>>>>> that the unvaccinated are putting the lives of children and adults >>>>>>> at risk. That would be a hard case to make since it is rare for
    children to develop serious illnesses from the coronavirus.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978835/Mississippi-health-officials-say-stillbirths-unvaccinated-pregnant-women-DOUBLED.html

    Are you going to argue that a fetus has a right to life? That would
    run contrary to Roe v. Wade.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9978343/Girl-dies-sleep-day-testing-positive-COVID-unvaccinated-parents.html

    It's going to take more than anecdotal evidence to establish that
    unvaccinated people pose a significant health risk to children.
    Seasonal flu is a much greater risk to young children. 188 deaths in >>>>> the 2019-2020 season. We've never mandated flu shots, masks, or
    social distancing as a remedy for that.

    Ditto for vaccinated adults. It seems to me the only people
    unvaccinated people are putting at risk is other unvaccinated people. >>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9978503/Covid-vaccine-effectiveness-against-infection-fell-91-78-Delta-dominant.html

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory and then turn around and point out that vaccinated people >>>>> can still die from the disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant. >>>>


    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.

    You told us that the vaccinated don't become symptomatic when they get
    the DELTA virus.... which indicates that it's the people getting the
    "FAKE VACCINE" who are the spreaders. The "vaccine" created 80 million *TYPHOID MARRY* super spreaders with the *DELTA STRAIN*.

    They get the virus and shed the virus and their symptoms are reduced so
    they think they're protected when all they're getting is a treatment for
    the symptoms. And it doesn't reduce their viral load enough to stop the spread.



    You talk like a raving idiot because you are sexually confused. You
    cannot find your own ass using both hands at the same time.

    Please read this carefully to educate yourself so you won't sound stupid
    when you open your mouth:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static electricity
    created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the virus
    particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore
    diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to
    establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the
    latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to recognize
    the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response before the
    COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


    How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all viruses
    and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the immune
    system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders, produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens immediately and
    attack aggressively well before the pathogen can spread and cause sickness.


    The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 11 10:34:30 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the >>>>>> unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning >>>>>> out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.

    Cite?

    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...

    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:

    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 11 11:13:10 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:N25%I.114112$Ag5b.1844@fx07.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    BeamMeUpScotty wrote on 9/11/2021 7:59 AM:
    On 9/10/21 7:16 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir to create new variants >>>>> to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.

    You told us that the vaccinated don't become symptomatic when they get
    the DELTA virus.... which indicates that it's the people getting the
    "FAKE VACCINE" who are the spreaders. The "vaccine" created 80 million
    *TYPHOID MARRY* super spreaders with the *DELTA STRAIN*.

    They get the virus and shed the virus and their symptoms are reduced so
    they think they're protected when all they're getting is a treatment for
    the symptoms. And it doesn't reduce their viral load enough to stop the
    spread.

    You talk like a raving idiot because you are sexually confused. You
    cannot find your own ass using both hands at the same time.

    Your ad hominem slurs are juvenile.

    Please read this carefully to educate yourself so you won't sound stupid
    when you open your mouth:

    Deflection rejected again.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to max headroom on Sat Sep 11 14:55:34 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1... >>>> max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant. >>>>>>> Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the >>>>>>> unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning >>>>>>> out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.
    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Sat Sep 11 15:15:41 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:21 AM:

    You mean like the vaccinated ......

    You are too stupid to be alive. Please don't play with matches. You may
    burn the house down.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 11 12:18:05 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1... >>>>> max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the >>>>>>>> unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning >>>>>>>> out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?

    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>> carriers.

    Cite?

    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...

    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:

    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!

    When confronted with facts, you respond with insults.

    But thanks for playing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Sat Sep 11 15:17:22 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:24 AM:


    "max headroom" <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote in message news:shgp4v$4gc$1@dont-email.me...
    In news:WqR_I.43063$Ki4b.28276@fx05.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory
    and then turn
    around and point out that vaccinated people can still die from the
    disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new
    variants to
    kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    The same is true of the vaccinated.

    If not more so..... because they don't take any precautions because
    well... they are vaccinated.



    You are too stupid to be alive. Are you a reanimated corpse? How did
    they do it?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Sat Sep 11 15:19:12 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:14 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:HAP_I.212101$Fd_a.8560@fx08.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds
    of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to
    wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect
    some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to
    pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things
    he is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on
    these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If
    you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to
    help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination >>>> mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not
    specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states
    and the people. The default is the government doesn't have the power
    to do it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.

    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the
    Vietnam conscription (the draft)?



    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the dereliction
    of duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal government does far
    more than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps with five reliable
    conservatives on the court that might change but I'll believe it
    when I see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right to >>>> mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right
    of free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.

    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.

    Actually they don't under federal HIPAA laws.

    Are you suggesting the federal government would/should violate their
    OWN laws?



    ?????

    Can you tie your own shoelaces? I am curious.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 14:27:33 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics

    Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get vaccinated'



    This coming from a president who has lied to get elected, lied after
    getting elected, and is so senile he cannot put together more than two sentences without forgetting what year it is or who he is talking about.
    I think it would be in the best interest of the 320 million residents
    that he undergo a mental test. Do the residents of this country have
    the right to dictate he take such a test? I suppose your answer would
    be "No." But he thinks he has the right to insist that they get treated??

    I am not against getting the vaccine, I took it because of my age and
    what the possible impact of contracting the virus would be. I just
    don't think he is the type of salesman that one should listen to. I
    would bet that if he was questioned about his speech, he would not
    remember having made it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nic@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sat Sep 11 15:34:56 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/9/21 9:48 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of
    ALL workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html




    80 million people is a lot of people to piss of, careful Joe they might
    get pissed off at you and they bite.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Sat Sep 11 15:35:12 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:11 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:ywM_I.40638$64ef.33821@fx13.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of
    ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait
    for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect
    some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to
    pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he
    is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on these
    matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you
    get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help
    you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination mandate.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
    nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
    respectively, or to the people."
    The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Now... show me the enumerated power whereby the federal government can
    demand vaccinations.

    Maybe you should look at the facts rather than relying on your
    ignorance of such?



    Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-mandates-are-lawful-effective-and-based-on-rock-solid-science/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Nic on Sat Sep 11 16:08:51 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Nic wrote on 9/11/2021 3:34 PM:
    On 9/9/21 9:48 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of
    ALL workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have
    yet to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to
    wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million
    employees across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki
    said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html




    80 million people is a lot of people to piss of, careful Joe they
    might get pissed off at you and they bite.


    Tuf-luv will do you good.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Ken on Sat Sep 11 16:04:17 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics

    Ken wrote on 9/11/2021 3:27 PM:
    he cannot put together more than two sentences without forgetting what
    year it is or who he is talking about.


    Einstein was clumsy in speaking. Steven Hawking couldn't talk at all.
    What else is new?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Byker@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sun Sep 12 11:50:43 2021
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, talk.politics.guns
    XPost: alt.tv.pol-incorrect

    On 9/9/21 9:48 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    HEIL FAUCI: "There are a number of people, who for one reason or other,
    don't want to comply and be vaccinated. We've GOT to get them vaccinated,
    and hopefully they'll do it willingly. If not, there will HAVE to be things
    to put pressure on them, such as you're not going to work in this particular agency or institution, you'll not be able to go to this college or
    university, unless, in fact, you get vaccinated. I believe that once we
    start doing that, you will start seeing more and more people WILLINGLY (!)
    get vaccinated." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mgAwHS5DTE&t=377s

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Byker on Sun Sep 12 13:19:56 2021
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, talk.politics.guns
    XPost: alt.tv.pol-incorrect

    Byker wrote on 9/12/2021 12:50 PM:
    On 9/9/21 9:48 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated
    Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL workers and
    insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    HEIL FAUCI: "There are a number of people, who for one reason or other,
    don't want to comply and be vaccinated. We've GOT to get them vaccinated,
    and hopefully they'll do it willingly. If not, there will HAVE to be
    things
    to put pressure on them, such as you're not going to work in this
    particular
    agency or institution, you'll not be able to go to this college or university, unless, in fact, you get vaccinated. I believe that once we
    start doing that, you will start seeing more and more people WILLINGLY
    (!)
    get vaccinated."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mgAwHS5DTE&t=377s

    Biden and Fauci are like like attentive parents trying to get rebellious children to eat veggies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Nic@21:1/5 to Byker on Sun Sep 12 13:32:22 2021
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, talk.politics.guns
    XPost: alt.tv.pol-incorrect

    On 9/12/21 12:50 PM, Byker wrote:
    On 9/9/21 9:48 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated
    Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL workers and
    insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    HEIL FAUCI: "There are a number of people, who for one reason or other,
    don't want to comply and be vaccinated. We've GOT to get them vaccinated,
    and hopefully they'll do it willingly. If not, there will HAVE to be
    things
    to put pressure on them, such as you're not going to work in this
    particular
    agency or institution, you'll not be able to go to this college or university, unless, in fact, you get vaccinated. I believe that once we
    start doing that, you will start seeing more and more people WILLINGLY
    (!)
    get vaccinated." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mgAwHS5DTE&t=377s

    Fuck You and Fauci, there will be public executions for scum like this man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Byker@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sun Sep 12 14:46:30 2021
    XPost: alt.survival, alt.politics, talk.politics.guns
    XPost: alt.tv.pol-incorrect

    On 9/9/21 9:48 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    HEIL FAUCI: "There are a number of people, who for one reason or other,
    don't want to comply and be vaccinated. We've GOT to get them vaccinated,
    and hopefully they'll do it willingly. If not, there will HAVE to be things
    to put pressure on them, such as you're not going to work in this particular agency or institution, you'll not be able to go to this college or
    university, unless, in fact, you get vaccinated. I believe that once we
    start doing that, you will start seeing more and more people WILLINGLY (!)
    get vaccinated." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mgAwHS5DTE&t=377s

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David P.@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Sun Sep 12 15:01:25 2021
    Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Biden and Fauci are like like attentive parents trying to get rebellious children to eat veggies.
    --------
    2/3 of the people are overweight, and so more at risk, because
    they didn't follow directions to "Exercise and eat right"!
    When we're living in a protective bubble, people think
    they can get as fat, dumb & happy as they like.
    But when something penetrates the bubble, then it's
    "Help me, help me! I can't breathe!", & all hell
    breaks loose....a slow-motion train wreck!
    Other critters have to stay lean & mean, to fight
    off their enemies! The ones that don't fall by
    the wayside, & become a meal for someone.
    Nowhere else in Nature does a population keep
    increasing indefinitely without a crash!
    Every species has natural enemies that keep its
    numbers in check! That's how Nature works! You don't
    have to like it; you just have to accept it! There's
    nothing "normal" about adding one billion every 12 years!
    --
    --

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 08:12:22 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:Rx7%I.51402$C1F8.32651@fx04.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:11 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:ywM_I.40638$64ef.33821@fx13.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of
    ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait
    for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees
    across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated >>>>>
    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some >>>> of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to
    know how much power the President has to do the things he is proposing. >>>> The courts are going to have the final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get >>>> deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you.
    You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination
    mandate.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
    prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
    or to the people."
    The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Now... show me the enumerated power whereby the federal government can
    demand vaccinations.

    Maybe you should look at the facts rather than relying on your ignorance
    of such?



    Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-mandates-are-lawful-effective-and-based-on-rock-solid-science/

    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself they
    can do 'whatever'.

    I asked you to show me the enumerated power that they can do so as called
    for by the Constitution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 08:14:40 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:yf7%I.199345$QHsf.100296@fx12.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:21 AM:

    You mean like the vaccinated ......

    You are too stupid to be alive. Please don't play with matches. You may
    burn the house down.

    When confronted with facts that he can't deal with the Mighty Wannabe lashes out in a most childish and immature manner..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 08:13:39 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:Qi7%I.199347$QHsf.178625@fx12.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:14 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:HAP_I.212101$Fd_a.8560@fx08.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 4:27 PM:
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe >>>>>> wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of >>>>>>> ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait >>>>>>> for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or >>>>>>> tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect >>>>>> some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to
    pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he >>>>>> is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on these
    matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you >>>>>> get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help >>>>>> you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".
    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination >>>>> mandate.
    That might be the problem. The Tenth Amendment says any powers not
    specifically granted to the federal government belong to the states and >>>> the people. The default is the government doesn't have the power to do >>>> it. That at least is how it is supposed to work.

    Has any state or individual been able to use that to nullify the Vietnam >>> conscription (the draft)?



    The Tenth Amendment has had a de facto repeal due to the dereliction of >>>> duties by past Supreme Courts. The federal government does far more
    than the Constitution authorizes. Perhaps with five reliable
    conservatives on the court that might change but I'll believe it when I >>>> see it.

    I have heard that US soldiers have to take all kinds of
    preventive vaccines. I am sure the federal government has the right to >>>>> mandate vaccination to its employees as a condition of employment.
    Soldiers give up much of their Constitutional liberties when they
    enlist. For one they become subject to military justice. The right of
    free speech also gets curtailed. I would bet that as
    Commander-in-Chief, Biden can order military personnel to get
    vaccinated. Not sure he has the same power over civilians.

    The federal government is the employer of federal employees. The
    employer has the right to demand from the employees proof of
    vaccination.

    Actually they don't under federal HIPAA laws.

    Are you suggesting the federal government would/should violate their OWN
    laws?



    ?????

    Can you tie your own shoelaces? I am curious.

    Wannabe has no rational response.. so attempts the lame insult.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 08:17:48 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new >>>>>>> variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original
    variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider the >>>>>> unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are churning >>>>>> out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic
    carriers.
    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious much
    like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as easily
    as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...



    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.

    Prove it.

    That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Yea, and if it's not an N95 grade mask it hospitals don't use it around viruses.

    You do understand that different masks have different capabilities and just saying that hospitals use masks means that pulling a panty hose over your
    head doesn't mean you're safe from disease?

    Oh, and let's not forget we're told NOT to use N95 masks something about how the hospitals need them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 08:19:54 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:6h7%I.199346$QHsf.67010@fx12.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:24 AM:


    "max headroom" <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote in message
    news:shgp4v$4gc$1@dont-email.me...
    In news:WqR_I.43063$Ki4b.28276@fx05.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 6:43 PM:

    It doesn't help your case to at once argue that vaccines should be
    mandatory
    and then turn
    around and point out that vaccinated people can still die from the
    disease.

    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new
    variants to
    kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original variant.

    The same is true of the vaccinated.

    If not more so..... because they don't take any precautions because
    well... they are vaccinated.



    You are too stupid to be alive. Are you a reanimated corpse? How did they
    do it?

    Wannabe is left with nothing but casting childish insults.....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 08:18:52 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:
    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new >>>>>>>>> variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider >>>>>>>> the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are
    churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.
    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread the
    disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!

    And just like that Wannabe doesn't want to discuss how the vaccinated are endangering us all by spreading the disease....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Sep 13 09:28:00 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:12 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:Rx7%I.51402$C1F8.32651@fx04.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:11 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:ywM_I.40638$64ef.33821@fx13.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe
    wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds
    of ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to
    wait for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or
    tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect
    some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to
    pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things
    he is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on
    these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If
    you get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to
    help you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid
    vaccination mandate.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
    nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
    respectively, or to the people."
    The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Now... show me the enumerated power whereby the federal government
    can demand vaccinations.

    Maybe you should look at the facts rather than relying on your
    ignorance of such?



    Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-mandates-are-lawful-effective-and-based-on-rock-solid-science/


    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself
    they can do 'whatever'.

    I asked you to show me the enumerated power that they can do so as
    called for by the Constitution.


    The Constitution didn't give your the enumerated power to wipe your ass,
    but I assume you do, in contravention to the Constitution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Sep 13 09:23:36 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:18 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed: >>>>>>>> Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create >>>>>>>>>> new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you
    consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, >>>>>>>>> think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are
    churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious >>>>> much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.
    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read
    over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread
    the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!

    And just like that Wannabe doesn't want to discuss how the vaccinated
    are endangering us all by spreading the disease...


    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    You can educate yourself so you won't talk stupid if you can managing to
    shut your pie hole long enough to read what I had posted:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static electricity
    created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the virus
    particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore
    diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to
    establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the
    latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to recognize
    the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response before the
    COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


    How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all viruses
    and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the immune
    system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders, produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens immediately and
    attack aggressively well before the pathogen can spread and cause sickness.


    The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BeamMeUpScotty@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 09:43:38 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/13/21 9:23 AM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:18 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed: >>>>>>>>> Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create >>>>>>>>>>> new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you
    consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, >>>>>>>>>> think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are >>>>>>>>>> churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious >>>>>> much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.
    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read
    over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread
    the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!

    And just like that Wannabe doesn't want to discuss how the vaccinated
    are endangering us all by spreading the disease...


    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    You can educate yourself so you won't talk stupid if you can managing to
    shut your pie hole long enough to read what I had posted:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.

    Pathogens come in many sized....


    What size are you trying to reduce? A virus is one of the smallest and
    an airborne virus is more like a gas than droplets of spit. What kind
    of mask are you wanting to mandate for Americans, will it filter out
    things smaller than 1 micron and seal around the eyes nose and mouth and
    are the ears or any cuts on their body also an entry point for this virus?

    And when someone FARTS does it expel the virus so not only are they
    silent farts but maybe even DEADLIER than we joke about. If you
    remember the Scientists look for the live virus in the sewer systems of
    cities to see what areas are where the virus is active.

    If you can taste the fart can it also be carrying the airborne virus,
    since the virus is airborne like the smell.

    I wouldn't want "you" you to look stupid, so you should probably get all
    the information before you start blaming that smell on someone and
    telling them they need a mask on their face.




    --
    That's Karma

    *The first rule of SURVIVAL CLUB is we talk about it*
    We hate censorship. Never trust what Democrats or Marxists tell you.
    Make them prove it with actual verifiable facts and science. And if you
    didn't find the duplicitous lies in what the Marxist-Democrats told you
    then you didn't dig deep enough. The *Gruber Doctrine* is the
    Marxist-Democrat plan that says it's "to the Democrats advantage to have
    a lack of transparency and then lie about everything". https://rumble.com/vkt8ld-call-it-the-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-or-whatever.-how-libs-exploit-t.html



    *The next rule of SURVIVAL CLUB is*
    77 - Liberalism is a philosophy of mediocrity, a creed of intolerance,
    and a feeling of malice towards the good fortune of others!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Sep 13 09:24:07 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:17 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create
    new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original
    variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you
    consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are
    churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the
    asymptomatic carriers.
    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...



    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read
    over and over again enough number of times:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.

    Prove it.

    That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Yea, and if it's not an N95 grade mask it hospitals don't use it
    around viruses.

    You do understand that different masks have different capabilities and
    just saying that hospitals use masks means that pulling a panty hose
    over your head doesn't mean you're safe from disease?

    Oh, and let's not forget we're told NOT to use N95 masks something
    about how the hospitals need them.



    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    You can educate yourself so you won't talk stupid if you can managing to
    shut your pie hole long enough to read what I had posted:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static electricity
    created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the virus
    particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore
    diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to
    establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the
    latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to recognize
    the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response before the
    COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


    How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all viruses
    and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the immune
    system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders, produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens immediately and
    attack aggressively well before the pathogen can spread and cause sickness.


    The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Sep 13 07:28:00 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/13/2021 5:14 AM, Scout wrote:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:yf7%I.199345$QHsf.100296@fx12.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:21 AM:

    You mean like the vaccinated ......

    You are too stupid to be alive. Please don't play with matches. You may burn >> the house down.

    When confronted with facts that

    You present no facts, scooter. You never have.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Sep 13 07:27:15 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/13/2021 5:12 AM, Scout wrote:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:Rx7%I.51402$C1F8.32651@fx04.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:11 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:ywM_I.40638$64ef.33821@fx13.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe wrote: >>>>>> 'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html


    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of ALL >>>>>> workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet
    to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait for' >>>>>>
    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get
    vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or tested >>>>>> weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get vaccinated >>>>>>
    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta
    variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect some of
    them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to pretend to know how
    much power the President has to do the things he is proposing. The courts >>>>> are going to have the final say on these matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you get >>>>> deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help you. You're
    on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination mandate.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
    prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or >>> to the people."
    The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Now... show me the enumerated power whereby the federal government can demand
    vaccinations.

    Maybe you should look at the facts rather than relying on your ignorance of >>> such?



    Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-mandates-are-lawful-effective-and-based-on-rock-solid-science/


    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself they can
    do 'whatever'.

    No, scooter, "the government" has said no such thing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to BeamMeUpScotty on Mon Sep 13 10:27:08 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    BeamMeUpScotty wrote on 9/13/2021 9:43 AM:
    On 9/13/21 9:23 AM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:18 AM:

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed: >>>>>>>>>> Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create >>>>>>>>>>>> new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you >>>>>>>>>>> consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, >>>>>>>>>>> think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are >>>>>>>>>>> churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious >>>>>>> much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.
    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as >>>>>>> easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read >>>>>> over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread
    the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.
    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!
    And just like that Wannabe doesn't want to discuss how the vaccinated
    are endangering us all by spreading the disease...

    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    You can educate yourself so you won't talk stupid if you can managing to
    shut your pie hole long enough to read what I had posted:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.
    Pathogens come in many sized....


    What size are you trying to reduce? A virus is one of the smallest and
    an airborne virus is more like a gas than droplets of spit. What kind
    of mask are you wanting to mandate for Americans, will it filter out
    things smaller than 1 micron and seal around the eyes nose and mouth and
    are the ears or any cuts on their body also an entry point for this virus?





    You too are like "Scout", both supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    The two of you miraculous managed to void being pancaked by a bus after
    so many decades, and still wasting air and water which have better use
    than keep you two mouthbreathers alive. What odds?

    The answer to your "virus size" and "mask pore size" questions were in
    my reply you have deleted.

    Here I repeat below for you education:

    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect. Reducing the amount of pathogens
    you inhale is enough protection to prevent you from getting sick.

    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that the static electricity
    created in the fabric by air passing through can trap the virus
    particles. Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore
    diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting
    one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to
    establish in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the
    latency period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to
    multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral
    load that you inhale. With vaccination you train your body to recognize
    the COVID virus as invaders and starting the immune response before the
    COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from
    getting the virus.

    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccines-work/


    How Vaccines Work

    A vaccine works by training the immune system to recognize and combat pathogens, either viruses or bacteria. To do this, certain molecules
    from the pathogen must be introduced into the body to trigger an immune response.

    These molecules are called antigens, and they are present on all viruses
    and bacteria. By injecting these antigens into the body, the immune
    system can safely learn to recognize them as hostile invaders, produce antibodies, and remember them for the future. If the bacteria or virus reappears, the immune system will recognize the antigens immediately and
    attack aggressively well before the pathogen can spread and cause sickness.


    The Herd Immunity Imperative

    Vaccines don't just work on an individual level, they protect entire populations. Once enough people are immunized, opportunities for an
    outbreak of disease become so low even people who aren't immunized
    benefit. Essentially, a bacteria or virus simply won't have enough
    eligible hosts to establish a foothold and will eventually die out
    entirely. This phenomenon is called "herd immunity" or "community
    immunity," and it has allowed once-devastating diseases to be eliminated entirely, without needing to vaccinate every individual.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 11:31:33 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:vhI%I.201076$yIVd.104752@fx01.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:18 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed: >>>>>>>>> Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create >>>>>>>>>>> new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider >>>>>>>>>> the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, >>>>>>>>>> think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are >>>>>>>>>> churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious >>>>>> much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.
    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read
    over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread the >>>> disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.

    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!

    And just like that Wannabe doesn't want to discuss how the vaccinated are
    endangering us all by spreading the disease...


    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    Wannabe has now ceased to have a conversation and is attempting to drown me
    out by repeating the same fake, unproven and/or unsupported assertions and claims over and over without actually attempting to hold any discussion on
    the points I'm making.

    In short... it's the sort of lame rebuttal used by an idiot attempting to defend a load of lies and bullshit.

    But then that's what our Wannabe is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 11:34:44 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:DlI%I.58626$ya7f.29067@fx10.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:12 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:Rx7%I.51402$C1F8.32651@fx04.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:11 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <👩🏽‍⚕️👨‍⚕️👮👨🏿‍🚒👷@🏻.🍁🎖️> wrote in message
    news:ywM_I.40638$64ef.33821@fx13.ams1...
    bigdog wrote on 9/10/2021 1:11 PM:
    On Thursday, September 9, 2021 at 9:48:58 PM UTC-4, Mighty Wannabe >>>>>> wrote:
    'Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxers !!!!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html

    'Your refusal has cost us all': Biden declares war on the 80M
    unvaccinated Americans in speech ordering mandates on two-thirds of >>>>>>> ALL
    workers and insists: 'This is not about freedom'

    President Joe Biden slammed the 80 million Americans who have yet >>>>>>> to get a COVD vaccine shot, asking them 'what more is there to wait >>>>>>> for'

    'We've been patient but our patience is wearing thin. And your
    refusal has cost all of us,' he said

    He ended his nearly 30 minute speech with a whispered plea: 'Get >>>>>>> vaccinated'

    Biden announced an aggressive new plan to get 100 million employees >>>>>>> across the federal government and private sector vaccinated

    Labor Department to issue a temporary order to require all
    businesses with 100 or more employees to have them vaccinated or >>>>>>> tested
    weekly

    Biden will require all federal workers to be vaccinated

    Workers will not be given the option of testing out

    There will be limited exceptions but any federal employee who
    refuses the shot can be fired, White House press secretary Jen Psaki >>>>>>> said Thursday

    Federal employees and contractors will have 75 days to get
    vaccinated

    Biden's remarks come as COVID cases continue to rise due to Delta >>>>>>> variant

    [continue . . . . . . ]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975531/Biden-declares-war-80M-unvaccinated-Americans.html
    I expect a slew of court challenges to these mandates and I expect >>>>>> some of them to be upheld. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not going to
    pretend to know how much power the President has to do the things he >>>>>> is proposing. The courts are going to have the final say on these
    matters.

    I think it would be easier just to say to the unvaccinated, "If you >>>>>> get deathly ill, the government isn't going to do anything to help >>>>>> you. You're on your own. If you die, you die.".


    I am sure there is nothing in the Constitution that forbid vaccination >>>>> mandate.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor >>>> prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
    respectively, or to the people."
    The 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. >>>>
    Now... show me the enumerated power whereby the federal government can >>>> demand vaccinations.

    Maybe you should look at the facts rather than relying on your
    ignorance of such?



    Vaccine Mandates Are Lawful, Effective and Based on Rock-Solid Science

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vaccine-mandates-are-lawful-effective-and-based-on-rock-solid-science/

    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself
    they can do 'whatever'.

    I asked you to show me the enumerated power that they can do so as called
    for by the Constitution.


    The Constitution didn't give your the enumerated power to wipe your ass,
    but I assume you do, in contravention to the Constitution.

    Doesn't have to enumerate my powers.

    It's just enough to acknowledge that the federal government doesn't have
    them. See 10th Amendment as a reference to that.

    However, let me accept that you can not support your claim that there is something in the Constitution that allows the federal government to require vaccinations.

    As such your assurances are proven to be as false as your claims.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 11:28:59 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:ZhI%I.201077$yIVd.86311@fx01.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:17 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:


    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create new >>>>>>>>> variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you consider >>>>>>>> the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, think >>>>>>>> real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are
    churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the asymptomatic >>>>>>> carriers.
    Cite?



    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.

    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat.

    You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as easily >>>> as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...



    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read over
    and over again enough number of times:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.

    Prove it.

    That's why there are such
    things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Yea, and if it's not an N95 grade mask it hospitals don't use it around
    viruses.

    You do understand that different masks have different capabilities and
    just saying that hospitals use masks means that pulling a panty hose over
    your head doesn't mean you're safe from disease?

    Oh, and let's not forget we're told NOT to use N95 masks something about
    how the hospitals need them.



    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    You can educate yourself so you won't talk stupid if you can managing to
    shut your pie hole long enough to read what I had posted:

    I read it and it wasn't factually correct.

    But in the interests of clarity I will correct some of the factual errors in your claims below.


    Face masks [can] reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such things as [special purpose] medical mask and surgical mask in the
    hospital.

    Face masks don't have to be perfect [but they do need a certain level of protection to be at all effective].

    Reducing the amount of pathogens you inhale [by be] enough protection to >prevent you from getting sick, [assuming you are wearing a mask that is
    both capable of doing do, and it being properly handled, worn, cared for a >disposed of]


    It is true that the diameter of the COVID virus is smaller than the pore
    size of the face mask, but don't forget that [you're going to claim
    something false which is] the static electricity created in the fabric by
    air passing through can trap the virus particles.


    Besides, the face mask will start clogging up and the pore diameter will become smaller so that it can trap even smaller particles.

    [which occurs only if the pore size is smaller than the particles being filtered, and further makes it harder to breath as a result]


    You have to understand that most likely you won't get sick by getting one single virus particle. How fast the virus can multiply in your body
    depends on the viral load. It takes a long time for the virus to establish
    in your body. The time is called "latency period". After the latency
    period, the viral load or inside your body would be ready to multiply exponentially and you will get very sick.

    [ when in reality the virus is already multiplying exponentially but until
    you get enough of the virus you don't get symptoms that is the actual
    "latency period"]


    With social distancing and face masks, you can reduce the COVID viral load that you inhale.

    [That is if you assume that the assumptions made about social distancing and random face masks is accurate which is an unfounded assumption because there
    is no proof of that]

    With vaccination you train your body to recognize the COVID virus as
    invaders and starting the immune response before the COVID virus can fully establish in your body during the latency period.

    [except that doesn't happen with the Covid vaccines since your body doesn't recognize the virus as an invader which can be proven in the established
    fact that vaccinated people have been shown the have the same viral load as
    the unvaccinated and thus are just as capable of spreading the disease]


    Social distancing and face masks are the ways to prevent you from getting
    the virus.

    [unsupported by any complete study for this virus, or any virus]


    Vaccines prevent you from getting very sick or dying from the virus:

    [so do drugs and what is what the Covid vaccines actually are. A drug,
    because they either keep you from getting the disease or to prevent it from replicating within your body, as such the MOST they do for you is to reduce your response to the disease... making it a drug not a vaccine by
    definition]

    Now, I'm sure Wannabe will come back with some insane rant about 'tampering with his words' or otherwise pointing out the specific flaws in his claims
    and reasoning and he certainly will NEVER look at the sources already cited
    to him to examine the proof of what I'm saying.

    Instead, he will simply repeat the same lies over and over and over, while throwing in the occasional insult for daring to contest his unsupported and fake assertions and claims.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Mon Sep 13 11:53:05 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:3dJ%I.50446$I2bb.43347@fx06.ams1...
    BeamMeUpScotty wrote on 9/13/2021 9:43 AM:
    On 9/13/21 9:23 AM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:18 AM:

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message
    news:HY6%I.114271$Ag5b.52648@fx07.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/11/2021 1:34 PM:
    In news:jY4%I.171478$64ef.64486@fx13.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/11/2021 8:23 AM:
    "Mighty Wannabe" wrote in message
    news:YNT_I.4666$yIVd.2785@fx01.ams1...
    max headroom wrote on 9/10/2021 7:22 PM:
    In news:AHR_I.49801$I2bb.45521@fx06.ams1, Mighty Wannabe typed: >>>>>>>>>>> Nic wrote on 9/10/2021 7:08 PM:
    On 9/10/21 6:59 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
    The unvaccinated are acting as COVID reservoir[sic] to create >>>>>>>>>>>>> new variants
    to kill even the ones already vaccinated against the original >>>>>>>>>>>>> variant.
    Seems like the variant is coming from the vaxxed, if you >>>>>>>>>>>> consider the
    unvaccinted who have NOT gotten ill or had the primary covid, >>>>>>>>>>>> think
    real hard and answer honestly, is it the vaccinated who are >>>>>>>>>>>> churning
    out the variant's or the healthy un-vaccinated?
    It comes mostly from the unvaccinated, especially the
    asymptomatic
    carriers.
    Cite?
    It is as obvious as 1+1=2, or your mom is/was a woman.
    IOW, you have no actual knowledge you're just asserting it's
    obvious
    much like a flat earther claims it's obvious the Earth is flat. >>>>>>>> You are aware that the vaccinated can spread the disease just as >>>>>>>> easily as the non-vaccinated and they are doing so...
    Please try to commit this to memory. You will remember if you read >>>>>>> over
    and over again enough number of times:
    Why? It's irrelevant to the subject that the vaccinated can spread >>>>>> the disease just as
    easily as the non-vaccinated.

    Deflection rejected.
    Your refusal has cost us all', you stupid antivaxxer !!!!
    And just like that Wannabe doesn't want to discuss how the vaccinated
    are endangering us all by spreading the disease...

    You are a walking miracle, You are supposed to be too stupid to be
    alive.

    You can educate yourself so you won't talk stupid if you can managing to >>> shut your pie hole long enough to read what I had posted:


    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens.
    Pathogens come in many sized....


    What size are you trying to reduce? A virus is one of the smallest and
    an airborne virus is more like a gas than droplets of spit. What kind
    of mask are you wanting to mandate for Americans, will it filter out
    things smaller than 1 micron and seal around the eyes nose and mouth and
    are the ears or any cuts on their body also an entry point for this
    virus?





    You too are like "Scout", both supposed to be too stupid to be alive.

    The two of you miraculous managed to void being pancaked by a bus after so many decades, and still wasting air and water which have better use than
    keep you two mouthbreathers alive. What odds?

    The answer to your "virus size" and "mask pore size" questions were in my reply you have deleted.

    Here I repeat below for you education:

    Face masks do reduce the spread of pathogens. That's why there are such things as medical mask and surgical mask in the hospital.

    Ok... so why do Hospitals pay $5-$7 each for a single use N95 mask when a
    $0.25 fabric masks is just as effective against a virus according to your claims?

    Why is it that the public is told NOT to obtain these N95 masks but rather
    to use the cheap fabric masks that hospitals will not use because they are
    "not for Medical use"?

    Not all masks are equal and the ones that work against an air borne virus
    are NOT what the public is being told to use.

    So tell me at what pore size does a mask cease to be effective against a
    virus?

    If I wear a wire mesh mask with 1/8" pores will that work against a virus?

    If I wear a piece of fabric mesh with 1/16" pores will that work against a virus?

    If I wear a a piece of gauze with .08" pores will that work against a virus?

    So tell me, what size pore does work against something that is 0.1 microns
    in size?

    That's about 0.000004" in diameter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From max headroom@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 11:41:24 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    In news:DlI%I.58626$ya7f.29067@fx10.ams1, Mighty Wannabe <Y'Y?s.?Y'?s.?Y'Y'Y?Ys'Y'@Y.YYZ-?>
    typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:12 AM:

    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself
    they can do 'whatever'.

    I asked you to show me the enumerated power that they can do so as
    called for by the Constitution.

    The Constitution didn't give your the enumerated power to wipe your ass,
    but I assume you do, in contravention to the Constitution.

    You're reduced to spouting nonsense because you have no coherent answer to Scout's points.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mighty Wannabe@21:1/5 to Scout on Mon Sep 13 17:50:07 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 11:53 AM:

    If I wear a wire mesh mask with 1/8" pores will that work against a
    virus?

    You should wear a ball-gag, and then a butt-plug so you are covered at
    both ends.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to Mighty Wannabe on Tue Sep 14 07:57:40 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "Mighty Wannabe" <???????????????????????@??.?????> wrote in message news:mIP%I.27592$ZXL.26567@fx09.ams1...
    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 11:53 AM:

    If I wear a wire mesh mask with 1/8" pores will that work against a
    virus?

    You should wear a ball-gag, and then a butt-plug so you are covered at
    both ends.

    And thus Wannabe retreats in utter defeat.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scout@21:1/5 to max headroom on Tue Sep 14 07:59:27 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    "max headroom" <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote in message news:sho651$plq$2@dont-email.me...
    In news:DlI%I.58626$ya7f.29067@fx10.ams1, Mighty Wannabe <Y'Y?s.?Y'?s.?Y'Y'Y?Ys'Y'@Y.YYZ-?>
    typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:12 AM:

    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself
    they can do 'whatever'.

    I asked you to show me the enumerated power that they can do so as
    called for by the Constitution.

    The Constitution didn't give your the enumerated power to wipe your ass,
    but I assume you do, in contravention to the Constitution.

    You're reduced to spouting nonsense because you have no coherent answer to Scout's points.

    Particularly when you remember he claimed such a power was in the
    Constitution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to Scout on Tue Sep 14 07:31:22 2021
    XPost: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.misc, alt.survival
    XPost: alt.politics, talk.politics.guns

    On 9/14/2021 4:59 AM, Scout wrote:


    "max headroom" <maximusheadroom@gmx.com> wrote in message news:sho651$plq$2@dont-email.me...
    In news:DlI%I.58626$ya7f.29067@fx10.ams1, Mighty Wannabe
    <Y'Y?s.?Y'?s.?Y'Y'Y?Ys'Y'@Y.YYZ-?>
    typed:

    Scout wrote on 9/13/2021 8:12 AM:

    You apparently missed the point where the government is telling itself >>>> they can do 'whatever'.

    I asked you to show me the enumerated power that they can do so as
    called for by the Constitution.

    The Constitution didn't give your the enumerated power to wipe your ass, >>> but I assume you do, in contravention to the Constitution.

    You're reduced to spouting nonsense because you have no coherent answer to >> Scout's points.

    Particularly when you remember he claimed such a power was in the Constitution.

    Where, scooter?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)