On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin
collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good
battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and
rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I
assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt to start. >> I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures).
I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going.
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin
collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good
battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and
rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I
assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt to start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures).
I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going.
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>Yeah. Checked that. Transmission in neutral too. I exercised the seat in
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin
collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good
battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and
rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I
assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt to
start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures).
I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going.
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
case it has "operator fell of the machine" interlock too.
I have a hard-copy schematic but they baffle me in general. While >troubleshooting I run a trickle charger(6 amp) and all battery
connections look good. The mystery is the fact that accessory mode has
all indicators and lights, horn etc. working fine. Turn ignition to run
and all those lose power. It's not supposed to work like that. I'm
looking into buying a new ignition switch but then I'm just throwing
money at the problem with no certainty. It's been too hot here to work
all day, will pick up again this morning with some of your suggestions.
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>Yeah. Checked that. Transmission in neutral too. I exercised the seat
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin
collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good
battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and
rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I
assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt to
start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures).
I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going.
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
in case it has "operator fell of the machine" interlock too.
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you clean the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump starting it. Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid. Can
you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much good.
The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for whatever reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to answer
questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I have a hard-copy schematic but they baffle me in general. While
troubleshooting I run a trickle charger(6 amp) and all battery
connections look good. The mystery is the fact that accessory mode has
all indicators and lights, horn etc. working fine. Turn ignition to run
and all those lose power. It's not supposed to work like that. I'm
looking into buying a new ignition switch but then I'm just throwing
money at the problem with no certainty. It's been too hot here to work
all day, will pick up again this morning with some of your suggestions.
I've heard of a bad battery exhibiting this -
seems fine under low load - fails from the higher
current load of trying to start < internal short ? >
I suspect that you've operated the motion and
transmission controls back and forth through
the range to un-stick a micro switch ..
John T.
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>Yeah. Checked that. Transmission in neutral too. I exercised the seat
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin
collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good
battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and
rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I
assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt
to start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures). >>>>> I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going. >>>>
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
in case it has "operator fell of the machine" interlock too.
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you clean >> the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump starting
it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid.
Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much
good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other
stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making things difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified technician. I was
having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and exploring the switch by touch. They even goad you to enter serial numbers to verify that parts
are compatible. It's almost like their real objective is to find stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires with
alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for whatever
reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to answer
questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>Yeah. Checked that. Transmission in neutral too. I exercised the seat
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin
collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good
battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and
rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I
assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt to
start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures).
I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going.
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
in case it has "operator fell of the machine" interlock too.
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you clean the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump starting it. Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid. Can
you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much good.
The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for whatever reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to answer
questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
On 10/3/20 9:17 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>
wrote:
...
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you clean >>> the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump
starting it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid.
Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much
good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other
stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making things
difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified technician. I was
having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and exploring the switch
by touch. They even goad you to enter serial numbers to verify that
parts are compatible. It's almost like their real objective is to find
stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires
with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for whatever >>> reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to answer
questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I was curious how things were going. You're paying yourself a hundred
bucks an hour or so.
Can you get to the starter relatively easily? A jumper from the big cable on the starter to the fuel solenoid should tell you something.
Maybe it would
engage the solenoid and backfeed whatever else is necessary to make the
thing move.
The fuel pump might be one of those things.
Happy huntin'
On 10/3/20 7:49 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/3/20 9:17 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>
wrote:
...
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you
clean the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump
starting it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid.
Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much
good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other
stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making
things difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified technician.
I was having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and exploring the
switch by touch. They even goad you to enter serial numbers to verify
that parts are compatible. It's almost like their real objective is
to find stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires
with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for
whatever reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to
answer questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I was curious how things were going. You're paying yourself a >> hundred
bucks an hour or so.
Can you get to the starter relatively easily? A jumper from the big
cable on the starter to the fuel solenoid should tell you something.
Maybe it would
engage the solenoid and backfeed whatever else is necessary to make
the thing move.
The fuel pump might be one of those things.
Happy huntin'
y
No, I'm paying myself about $20/hr.
The front bucket arms are down so some of the access ports are
inaccessible until it's running.
I'm waiting on parts.
Troubleshooting is a lonely business, I'll try to do it offline to save myself embarrassment.
On 10/3/20 1:00 PM, Stumpy wrote:Oops, I screwed up. I should've written that my repair work
On 10/3/20 7:49 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/3/20 9:17 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con> >>>>>>> wrote:
...
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you >>>>> clean the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump
starting it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter
solenoid. Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much
good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other
stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making
things difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified
technician. I was having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and
exploring the switch by touch. They even goad you to enter serial
numbers to verify that parts are compatible. It's almost like their
real objective is to find stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires
with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a >>>>> 12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for
whatever reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to
answer questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I was curious how things were going. You're paying yourself a
hundred
bucks an hour or so.
Can you get to the starter relatively easily? A jumper from the >>> big
cable on the starter to the fuel solenoid should tell you something.
Maybe it would
engage the solenoid and backfeed whatever else is necessary to make
the thing move.
The fuel pump might be one of those things.
Happy huntin'
y
No, I'm paying myself about $20/hr.
The front bucket arms are down so some of the access ports are
inaccessible until it's running.
I'm waiting on parts.
Troubleshooting is a lonely business, I'll try to do it offline to
save myself embarrassment.
Yeah. And it's so easy to second guess. I'm a retired pivot fixer.
Guys would call us for help then sometimes get in the way and tell us
how to do
things. It always took us too long when it was time for them to pay the bill.
There are several quotes along these lines.
“He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains
a fool forever.”
― Mark Twain
On 10/3/20 1:22 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/3/20 1:00 PM, Stumpy wrote:Oops, I screwed up. I should've written that my repair work always took
On 10/3/20 7:49 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/3/20 9:17 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con> >>>>>>>> wrote:
...
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you >>>>>> clean the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump
starting it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it >>>>>> cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter
solenoid. Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much >>>>>> good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the
other stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making
things difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified
technician. I was having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and
exploring the switch by touch. They even goad you to enter serial
numbers to verify that parts are compatible. It's almost like their
real objective is to find stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires >>>>>> with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have >>>>>> a 12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for
whatever reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to >>>>>> answer questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I was curious how things were going. You're paying yourself >>>> a hundred
bucks an hour or so.
Can you get to the starter relatively easily? A jumper from >>>> the big
cable on the starter to the fuel solenoid should tell you something.
Maybe it would
engage the solenoid and backfeed whatever else is necessary to make
the thing move.
The fuel pump might be one of those things.
Happy huntin'
y
No, I'm paying myself about $20/hr.
The front bucket arms are down so some of the access ports are
inaccessible until it's running.
I'm waiting on parts.
Troubleshooting is a lonely business, I'll try to do it offline to
save myself embarrassment.
Yeah. And it's so easy to second guess. I'm a retired pivot >> fixer.
Guys would call us for help then sometimes get in the way and tell us
how to do
things. It always took us too long when it was time for them to pay
the bill.
too long when it was time to pay the bill. People didn't make a habit
of calling
me fast or smart.
There are several quotes along these lines.
“He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask
remains a fool forever.”
― Mark Twain
On 10/3/20 9:17 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>Yeah. Checked that. Transmission in neutral too. I exercised the
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin >>>>>> collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good >>>>>> battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and >>>>>> rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I >>>>>> assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt
to start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with pictures). >>>>>> I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it going. >>>>>
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
seat in case it has "operator fell of the machine" interlock too.
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you clean >>> the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump
starting it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid.
Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much
good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other
stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making things
difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified technician. I was
having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and exploring the switch
by touch. They even goad you to enter serial numbers to verify that
parts are compatible. It's almost like their real objective is to find
stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires
with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for whatever >>> reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to answer
questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I was curious how things were going. You're paying yourself a hundred
bucks an hour or so.
Can you get to the starter relatively easily? A jumper from the big cable on the starter to the fuel solenoid should tell you something.
Maybe it would
engage the solenoid and backfeed whatever else is necessary to make the
thing move.
The fuel pump might be one of those things.
Happy huntin'
On 10/3/20 7:49 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/3/20 9:17 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 5:31 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/1/20 11:02 AM, Stumpy wrote:
On 10/1/20 9:04 AM, hubops@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
On Thu, 1 Oct 2020 08:50:26 -0700, Stumpy <perilmung@spamnet.con>Yeah. Checked that. Transmission in neutral too. I exercised the
wrote:
Haven't used it much this summer and tried to start it up to begin >>>>>>> collecting fire wood. Ignition switch in accessory mode shows good >>>>>>> battery. When I rotate to "on" the indicator lights extinguish and >>>>>>> rotating further there is no attempt to start, not even a click. I >>>>>>> assume that there is some safety interlock preventing the attempt >>>>>>> to start.
I can't read schematics but wonder if there is a list(with
pictures).
I'd be willing to defeat such interlocks temporarily to get it
going.
Motion controls in neutral position ?
< my lawn tractor has that interlock :-) >
John T.
seat in case it has "operator fell of the machine" interlock too.
I'd be skeptical about the battery good thing. Could you
clean the terminals,
check the battery cables and the ground connection? Try jump
starting it.
Can you put the jumper cables directly on the starter to see if it
cranks then?
There should be 12 volts on the heavy cable on the starter solenoid.
Can you
run a wire from it to the fuel solenoid?
I found a wiring diagram but it wasn't clear enough to do much
good. The ignition
switch apparently engages a relay that in turn powers all the other
stuff. Connections
on the ignition switch? Bad relay? Where are the fuses?
This is hard going. Caterpillar may have a philosophy of making
things difficult so that you resort to hiring a qualified technician.
I was having to use a mirror to inspect the fuses and exploring the
switch by touch. They even goad you to enter serial numbers to verify
that parts are compatible. It's almost like their real objective is
to find stolen equipment.
This may be why Just Answer is able to extract payment for
troubleshooting help.
Does your local hardware or auto parts store have jumper wires
with alligator clips?
Those things are pretty handy. The auto parts store should have a
12vdc test light. That
might be handy.
I found a site called just answer. It's slow loading for
whatever reason. The site supposedly has mechanics and others to
answer questions. I'm not smart enough
about internet stuff to know if it's safe.
I was curious how things were going. You're paying yourself a >> hundred
bucks an hour or so.
Can you get to the starter relatively easily? A jumper from the big
cable on the starter to the fuel solenoid should tell you something.
Maybe it would
engage the solenoid and backfeed whatever else is necessary to make
the thing move.
The fuel pump might be one of those things.
Happy huntin'
Well it took me long enough but yesterday got it running. After
completely inspecting the back of the control panel I found 6 wires
chewed through. The colored ones were just to son-alert and gauges and indicators. Probably was one of the 2 black ones.
I made some rat excluder modifications to try to keep them out in the
future. Cut up an old dryer lint screen to fit around the cable bundle
and backed it up with 1" wood. I'll keep my eye out for some dense
plastic than would be more permanent.
Thanks for the tip about using jumper cables. I confirmed that it wasn't
a bad ground between the battery and the engine by leaving the black
jumper attached. It essentially 1/2ed the number of potential faults
while troubleshooting.
On 10/25/20 9:34 AM, Stumpy wrote:...
Well it took me long enough but yesterday got it running. After
completely inspecting the back of the control panel I found 6 wires
chewed through. The colored ones were just to son-alert and gauges and
indicators. Probably was one of the 2 black ones.
I made some rat excluder modifications to try to keep them out in the
future. Cut up an old dryer lint screen to fit around the cable bundle
and backed it up with 1" wood. I'll keep my eye out for some dense
plastic than would be more permanent.
Thanks for the tip about using jumper cables. I confirmed that it
wasn't a bad ground between the battery and the engine by leaving the
black jumper attached. It essentially 1/2ed the number of potential
faults while troubleshooting.
Good deal. Just in time maybe. Snow coming to Nebraska.
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