The new prices are still low enough to justify a battery replacement
instead of a whole new phone. There's no doubt the increase will sting, though, and it may be particularly painful if your device is several
years old (such as an iPhone X) and may lose other forms of support relatively soon, such as major OS updates.
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
Some “news”. 🙄
In case you have not noticed, EVERYTHING costs more today than it did 1
year ago.
But - OF COURSE - only Apple raising a price is “news” here.
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for an
aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price of
battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March 1st. For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will bump the price
from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8 or a similarly
classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69. The cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already higher at $99.
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for an
aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price of
battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March 1st. For
notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will bump the price
from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8 or a similarly
classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69. The cost of a
replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already higher at $99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
On 4 Jan 2023 at 11:37:18 PM, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for an
aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price of
battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March 1st. For
notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will bump the price
from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8 or a similarly
classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69. The cost of a
replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already higher at $99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is not
excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a whole new
phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
How long does it take from start to finish to get the iPhone back?
Are there any other costs (like tax or shipping or handling fees)?
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for
an aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price
of battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March 1st.
For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will bump the
price from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8 or a
similarly classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69. The
cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already higher at
$99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is
not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a
whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
On 4 Jan 2023 at 11:37:18 PM, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for
an aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price
of battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March
1st. For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will
bump the price from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8
or a similarly classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69.
The cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already
higher at $99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is
not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a
whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
How long does it take from start to finish to get the iPhone back?
How long does it take from start to finish to get the iPhone back?
Are there any other costs (like tax or shipping or handling fees)?
On 2023-01-04, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for
an aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price
of battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March 1st.
For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will bump the
price from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8 or a
similarly classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69. The
cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already higher at
$99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is
not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a
whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
And for many people it's every 4-6 years.
On 2023-01-05, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 4 Jan 2023 at 11:37:18 PM, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for
an aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price
of battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March
1st. For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will
bump the price from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8
or a similarly classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69.
The cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already
higher at $99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is
not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a
whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
How long does it take from start to finish to get the iPhone back?
Often you get your device back in around 30 minutes.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2023-01-04, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery for
an aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the price
of battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on March 1st.
For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this will bump the
price from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE, iPhone 8 or a
similarly classic design, the price will climb from $49 to $69. The
cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was already higher at
$99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is
not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a
whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
And for many people it's every 4-6 years.
Maybe 2-3 yrs. for my iPhone 12 mini from August 2021. Its battery is at
86% health already. :(
How long does it take from start to finish to get the iPhone back?
Are there any other costs (like tax or shipping or handling fees)?
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2023-01-04, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
On 1/4/2023 9:33 AM, badgolferman wrote:
You'll want to act quickly if you're considering a fresh battery
for an aging iPhone. 9to5Mac has noticed that Apple is raising the
price of battery replacements for pre-iPhone 14 models by $20 on
March 1st. For notched iPhones (iPhone X through iPhone 13), this
will bump the price from $69 to $89. If you have an iPhone SE,
iPhone 8 or a similarly classic design, the price will climb from
$49 to $69. The cost of a replacement for the iPhone 14 family was
already higher at $99.
While no one like paying more, the price for battery replacement is
not excessive. Paying $89 every 2-3 years, as opposed to buying a
whole new phone, is still a good deal, in my opinion.
And for many people it's every 4-6 years.
Maybe 2-3 yrs.
for my iPhone 12 mini from August 2021. Its battery is at 86% health
already. :(
Also, doesn't Apple only replace when the batteries' healths are under
80% or acting weird?
I haven't been inside an Apple store in many years. While Apple has two
sales facilities close to me (Visitor Center at Apple Park and Infinite
Loop store), they don't do repairs.
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
I’d be interested in knowing how many people on this group have had to change a battery in their iPhone — either by professional ls or themselves.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
I’d be interested in knowing how many people on this group have had to change a battery in their iPhone — either by professional ls or
themselves.
I’ve had it done several times.
Most people don't keep their phones long enough to need a battery
replacement
When a phone is traded in to Apple, if the battery health is poor but
it's a recent model, they'll change the battery before they resell it or
use it as a warranty replacement.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
I’d be interested in knowing how many people on this group have had to change a battery in their iPhone — either by professional ls or themselves.
I’ve had it done several times.
In article <tp6q8h$2rhq6$3@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
I haven't been inside an Apple store in many years. While Apple has two
sales facilities close to me (Visitor Center at Apple Park and Infinite
Loop store), they don't do repairs.
if you haven't been inside an apple store, then how do you know what
they do or don't do??
some stores do repairs on site and others will accept the device to
send out, plus there are a lot more than two stores near you.
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
On 1/4/2023 6:12 PM, RJH wrote:
<snip>
How long does it take from start to finish to get the iPhone back?
Are there any other costs (like tax or shipping or handling fees)?
You can get it done at a full service Apple Store while you wait. Yes,
you pay tax (depending on the state you're in).
I haven't been inside an Apple store in many years. While Apple has two
sales facilities close to me (Visitor Center at Apple Park and Infinite
Loop store), they don't do repairs. I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement. I think that the last time I was in an Apple
store was in 2019, in Shanghai.
I haven't been inside an Apple store in many years. While Apple has two sales facilities close to me (Visitor Center at Apple Park and Infinite Loop store), they don't do repairs. I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement. I think that the last time I was in an Apple store was in 2019, in Shanghai.
So One Infinite Loop and the Apple Visitor Center are "close to [you]"...
...but this isn't:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/valleyfair/>
...hmmm?
They're literally 11 minutes drive apart.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
I’d be interested in knowing how many people on this group have had to change a battery in their iPhone — either by professional ls or themselves.
I’ve had it done several times.
In article <tp74on$2q453$1@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
I haven't been inside an Apple store in many years. While Apple has two
sales facilities close to me (Visitor Center at Apple Park and Infinite
Loop store), they don't do repairs. I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement. I think that the last time I was in an Apple
store was in 2019, in Shanghai.
So One Infinite Loop and the Apple Visitor Center are "close to [you]"...
...but this isn't:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/valleyfair/>
...hmmm?
They're literally 11 minutes drive apart.
the los gatos store is also near him.
he deliberately chose those two to fit his narrative.
he's also wrong. they will accept repairs, they're just not done on
site, as is the case for many apple stores (generally smaller ones).
The battery in my 6S needs replacing. It is the original that
came with the phone when bought new and which I never
got around to having Apple replace under their cheap deal
once the problem with it was revealed. I have since replaced
the phone with an SE 2022 and the 6S is now the backup
phone and the battery is fine for a backup phone so I don't
plan to have the battery replaced.
On 1/5/2023 8:55 AM, badgolferman wrote:
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>I’d be interested in knowing how many people on this group have had to >> change a battery in their iPhone — either by professional ls or
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
themselves.
Most people don't keep their phones long enough to need a battery
replacement (other than the $29 "Batterygate" replacements).
When a phone is traded in to Apple, if the battery health is poor but
it's a recent model, they'll change the battery before they resell it or
use it as a warranty replacement.
It's the last iPhone with a headphone jack so there is still some demand
for it; it actually fetches more on the resale market than an unlocked Verizon iPhone 7 Plus (Qualcomm modem).
he's also wrong. they will accept repairs, they're just not done on
site, as is the case for many apple stores (generally smaller ones).
I'm curious how you know that.
In article <tp75l0$2t1il$1@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
he's also wrong. they will accept repairs, they're just not done on
site, as is the case for many apple stores (generally smaller ones).
I'm curious how you know that.
familiarity with what apple does and actually having visited such a
store for a repair.
On 2023-01-05 10:33, nospam wrote:
In article <tp74on$2q453$1@dont-email.me>, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
the los gatos store is also near him.I haven't been inside an Apple store in many years. While Apple has
two
sales facilities close to me (Visitor Center at Apple Park and
Infinite
Loop store), they don't do repairs. I've never had a need for a repair >>>> or a battery replacement. I think that the last time I was in an Apple >>>> store was in 2019, in Shanghai.
So One Infinite Loop and the Apple Visitor Center are "close to
[you]"...
...but this isn't:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/valleyfair/>
...hmmm?
They're literally 11 minutes drive apart.
he deliberately chose those two to fit his narrative.
he's also wrong. they will accept repairs, they're just not done on
site, as is the case for many apple stores (generally smaller ones).
I'm curious how you know that.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
<https://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/>
I've never had a need for a repair
or a battery replacement.
nor have most people.
I’d be interested in knowing how many people on this group have had to change a battery in their iPhone — either by professional ls or themselves.
I’ve had it done several times.
I've replaced several for myself, friends, and family over the years.
I've also had Apple replace a few. Most were used for 4-6 years before replacing them.
I've had it done several times.
Many people go 4-6 years before replacing their batteries. Many others
end up upgrading to a newer device before they ever replace their
battery even once.
Both of the stores on Apple's campus indicate they have no Genius Bar activities at all.
resale value is about the same and the 6s also has a qualcomm modem.
the headphone jack is insignificant. some prefer not having it, as it's
an additional point of ingress. note that sales *increased* after it
was replaced with a more reliable and more capable version.
Alan wrote:
Both of the stores on Apple's campus indicate they have no Genius Bar
activities at all.
The Santa Cruz mountain store nospam mentioned does have a Genius Bar last
I was there for my iPads, but, and get this, those "geniuses" didn't know
the difference between a decibel and a gigabitpersecond.
You could get real radical and ask them.
he's also wrong. they will accept repairs, they're just not done on
site, as is the case for many apple stores (generally smaller ones).
I'm curious how you know that.
familiarity with what apple does and actually having visited such a
store for a repair.
Have you visited that store?
Being generally familiar with what Apple does, doesn't not translate
into being familiar with what they do in specific instances.
Both of the stores on Apple's campus indicate they have no Genius Bar activities at all.
The Santa Cruz mountain store nospam mentioned does have a Genius Bar last
I was there for my iPads, but, and get this, those "geniuses" didn't know
the difference between a decibel and a gigabitpersecond.
If you have to send your iPhone out just to get something as simple as the battery replaced, then the design is atrocious since nobody wants to be without their phone for the weeks it could take from start to finish.
My Apple Watch I ordered online with the friends
and family discount.
On 1/5/2023 8:56 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Many people go 4-6 years before replacing their batteries. Many
others end up upgrading to a newer device before they ever replace
their battery even once.
When then do many millions of people every year have to prematurely
replace iPhone batteries specifically because they go bad sooner than advertised.
Jolly Roger wrote:
I've replaced several for myself, friends, and family over the years.
I've also had Apple replace a few. Most were used for 4-6 years before
replacing them.
Of course, Jolly Roger did the replacement correctly, right?
On 2023-01-05, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
Jolly Roger wrote:
I've replaced several for myself, friends, and family over the years.
I've also had Apple replace a few. Most were used for 4-6 years before
replacing them.
Of course, Jolly Roger did the replacement correctly, right?
Yep. All of them worked fine after I did the replacement. : )
Neither of us said that
When then do many millions of people every year have to prematurely
replace iPhone batteries specifically because they go bad sooner than
advertised.
Back up your bullshit claim that "many millions of people every year
have to prematurely replace iPhone batteries" with hard evidence and
we'll take you seriously, pumpkin. Until then you're just blowing hot
air around like the troll you are.
Apple replaced 11 million iPhone batteries, according to CNBC report.
On 1/6/2023 4:17 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
When then do many millions of people every year have to prematurely
replace iPhone batteries specifically because they go bad sooner
than advertised.
Back up your bullshit claim that "many millions of people every year
have to prematurely replace iPhone batteries" with hard evidence and
we'll take you seriously, pumpkin. Until then you're just blowing hot
air around like the troll you are.
https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+apple+batteries+replaced
Apple replaced 11 million iPhone batteries, according to CNBC report.
Jolly Roger wrote:
Neither of us said that
Your claim, and that of nospam, has _always_ been that it's "normal" for
only certain iPhones (but not others, and not iPads, or macOS laptops),
to have batteries that suddenly and secretly "just die" on you
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
On 2023-01-05, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
Jolly Roger wrote:
I've replaced several for myself, friends, and family over the
years. I've also had Apple replace a few. Most were used for 4-6
years before replacing them.
Of course, Jolly Roger did the replacement correctly, right?
Yep. All of them worked fine after I did the replacement. : )
Including the battery health indicator, or was that prior to that iOS version?
Including the battery health indicator, or was that prior to that iOS
version?
All prior. More recently (which is like 2-3 times so far for a dozen or
so devices), I've just let an Apple-authorized shop do it since it's
cheap and faster than I would have done it anyway. : )
Apple replaced 11 million iPhone batteries during the length of its
battery replacement program, even though it only expected to replace
about 1 million to 2 million of them, according to well-connected Apple insider John Gruber.
In article <tpa41r$1cd8$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Heron
<McKeister@ipanywhere.com> wrote:
Apple replaced 11 million iPhone batteries, according to CNBC
report.
out of over 1 billion active iphones, that's just ~1%
99% did not need it.
It's also important to understand that there was nothing actually wrong
with the batteries,
it was a design flaw in the phone that a battery
replacement mitigated,
I've never had a need to go to a full Apple Store and the last place
I've wanted to go is the crazy busy mall where the closest full Apple
store is located. I've never needed a repair or a Genius Bar.
Of the eight iPhones we've had, all were bought from the carrier or
supplied by an employer. My iPad Pro came from my employer and they let
me keep it when I left. My Apple Watch I ordered online with the friends
and family discount. My son's Macbook Pro came from Costco.
I did buy one item at the Apple Visitor Center: a Lightning to 3.5mm
adapter!
In article <tpciov$3j69m$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
It's also important to understand that there was nothing actually wrong
with the batteries,
other than the battery having aged to where it can no longer provide
peak currents that it could when new and that the phone required for
normal operation, you mean?
other than that, sure, nothing wrong.
it was a design flaw in the phone that a battery
replacement mitigated,
you have made this bogus claim in the past and it's not only false, but represents a deep misunderstanding of electronics. as a battery ages,
its ability to source peak currents drops as its internal resistance increases.
it also has nothing to do with phones. *all* batteries age and lose the ability to source peak currents.
an older car battery will have difficulty starting the engine, but
everything else (radio, headlights, etc.) work fine. cameras with
electronic flash will take longer to recycle, but otherwise the camera
works fine.
replacing the old battery with a new battery solves that problem.
it's not just batteries either. people age and don't have the stamina
they did when younger.
What do you think about my hypothesis as to why Steve is making his
crazy claims and using the wackiest set of assumptions to skew the
outcome?
Imagine how many more batteries have to get replaced at regular costs
which now will be $89 for newer phones.
Andy Burnelli wrote:
What do you think about my hypothesis as to why Steve is making his
crazy claims and using the wackiest set of assumptions to skew the
outcome?
I've known sms from our days on the now defunct Toyota group. He did
the same there, speaking in matter-of-fact terms and rejecting all disagreements so it sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
It's his way of making himself an expert.
On 1/7/2023 5:07 PM, badgolferman wrote:
Andy Burnelli wrote:
What do you think about my hypothesis as to why Steve is making his
crazy claims and using the wackiest set of assumptions to skew the
outcome?
I've known sms from our days on the now defunct Toyota group. He did
the same there, speaking in matter-of-fact terms and rejecting all
disagreements so it sounded like he knew what he was talking about.
It's his way of making himself an expert.
Come now, if someone disagrees with me, and they have facts to back up
their position, I'm perfectly happy to admit a mistake.
Unfortunately, our favorite nym-shifting troll does not believe in
citations, references, or facts.
The root cause of throttling was never the battery, it was the design of
the PMIC circuitry. While a new battery mitigated the root cause, it did
not fix the root cause.
other than that, sure, nothing wrong.
On 1/7/2023 11:38 AM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
Imagine how many more batteries have to get replaced at regular costs
which now will be $89 for newer phones.
Remember, Apple made hardware changes, beginning with the iPhone 8, to address the actual root cause of the throttling issue.
The most accurate and succinct explanation of the throttling issue is at
<https://mjtsai.com/blog/2017/12/22/apple-confirms-that-it-throttles-iphones-with-degraded-batteries/>:
A tear-down of the iPhone 8 revealed a significant design change,
The root cause of throttling was never the battery
Remember, Apple made hardware changes, beginning with the iPhone 8, to address the actual root cause of the throttling issue.
They added a
third PMIC (power management integrated circuit) which allows the
battery to supply sufficient current to the phone even when the battery begins to lose capacity.
So even though iOS still has the throttling
capability present, there have not been any reports of throttling
actually occurring on iPhone 8 and later.
PMIC
stands for "Power Management Integrated Circuit." These are the
components that take the raw output from the single-cell Li-Ion battery
and generate the various voltages needed by the different components
inside the phone.
The root cause of throttling was never the battery, it was the design of
the PMIC circuitry.
While a new battery mitigated the root cause, it did
not fix the root cause.
Apples current statement on this is iPhone 8 and later use a more
advanced hardware and software design that provides a more accurate estimation of both power needs and the batterys power capability to
maximize overall system performance. This allows a different performance management system that more precisely allows iOS to anticipate and avoid
an unexpected shutdown. As a result, the impacts of performance
management may be less noticeable on iPhone 8 and later. <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387>
you omitted quite a bit from that link, including a very clear
description of the actual problem, which is aging batteries being
unable to provide peak demands.
You repeat that lie over and over without a shred of proof to back it
up.
On 7 Jan 2023 at 8:28:50 PM, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
other than that, sure, nothing wrong.
Something had to be wrong.
Can you explain why Apple replaced 11 million batteries then?
And why they settled all the lawsuits if nothing was wrong?
In article <news:tpd7am$3l4r8$2@dont-email.me>, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> says...
The root cause of throttling was never the battery, it was the design of
the PMIC circuitry. While a new battery mitigated the root cause, it did
not fix the root cause.
Why didn't nospam & Jolly Roger know this instead of always saying it never happened and it was all a conspiracy to tar Apple's good reputation?
I'm sure that they are well aware of the facts regarding the cause of
the throttling.
Apple even stated that they made hardware changes
beginning with the iPhone 8, and an entity that does teardowns confirmed
the key change when they compared the iPhone 8 to the iPhone 7.
other than that, sure, nothing wrong.
Something had to be wrong.
Can you explain why Apple replaced 11 million batteries then?
And why they settled all the lawsuits if nothing was wrong?
Sadly the civil courts in the US are used to push opinions not facts. So often it's cheaper or better reputationally to settle cases to make the
issue go away rather the fight.
On 7 Jan 2023 at 8:28:50 PM, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
other than that, sure, nothing wrong.
Something had to be wrong.
Can you explain why Apple replaced 11 million batteries then? And why
they settled all the lawsuits if nothing was wrong?
On 8 Jan 2023 at 4:59:45 AM, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
you omitted quite a bit from that link, including a very clear
description of the actual problem, which is aging batteries being
unable to provide peak demands.
Why did that throttling abruptly happen between iOS 10.2 and 10.2.1
then?
On 8 Jan 2023 at 10:21:12 AM, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
other than that, sure, nothing wrong.
Something had to be wrong.
Can you explain why Apple replaced 11 million batteries then?
And why they settled all the lawsuits if nothing was wrong?
Sadly the civil courts in the US are used to push opinions not facts. So
often it's cheaper or better reputationally to settle cases to make the
issue go away rather the fight.
It wasn't just the US.
On 1/7/2023 8:26 PM, Jim S wrote:
In article <news:tpd7am$3l4r8$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> says...
The root cause of throttling was never the battery, it was the
design of the PMIC circuitry. While a new battery mitigated the root
cause, it did not fix the root cause.
Why didn't nospam & Jolly Roger know this instead of always saying it
never happened and it was all a conspiracy to tar Apple's good
reputation?
I'm sure that they are well aware of the facts regarding the cause of
the throttling. Apple even stated that they made hardware changes
beginning with the iPhone 8
if you think 113 million dollars
On 8 Jan 2023 at 6:35:57 PM, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
if you think 113 million dollars
Billions, not millions, is what Apple's iPhone throttling cost them.
On 1/8/2023 12:28 PM, RJH wrote:
On 8 Jan 2023 at 6:35:57 PM, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
if you think 113 million dollars
Billions, not millions, is what Apple's iPhone throttling cost them.
$113 million was what they paid to 34 states (and D.C.). There was
another $500 million class action settlement. This doesn't include
lawsuits and settlements in other regions, some of which have not yet
been settled
So it will almost certainly exceed $1 billion once all the lawsuits are settled.
On 8 Jan 2023 at 6:35:57 PM, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
if you think 113 million dollars
Billions, not millions, is what Apple's iPhone throttling cost them.
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:13:15 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Even if that eventually turns out to come true (it isn't today), it's
still nothing in comparison to what Apple makes, and more importantly
Apple has admitted no wrongdoing - and rightfully so.
Even if Apple is rich, that doesn't make Apple immune to common decency.
And didn't Apple admit to criminal guilt in one of the European countries?
On 08/01/2023 16:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
Billions, not millions, is what Apple's iPhone throttling cost them.
Bullshit.
Why do you think Apple can do whatever they want just because they're rich?
Even if that eventually turns out to come true (it isn't today), it's
still nothing in comparison to what Apple makes, and more importantly
Apple has admitted no wrongdoing - and rightfully so.
Billions, not millions, is what Apple's iPhone throttling cost them.
Bullshit.
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 4:13:15 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Even if that eventually turns out to come true (it isn't today), it's
still nothing in comparison to what Apple makes, and more importantly
Apple has admitted no wrongdoing - and rightfully so.
Even if Apple is rich, that doesn't make Apple immune to common decency.
And didn't Apple admit to criminal guilt in one of the European countries?
Why do you think Apple can do whatever they want just because they're rich?
Another bullshit claim.
And didn't Apple admit to criminal guilt in one of the European countries?
Nope.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 3:10:52 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
And didn't Apple admit to criminal guilt in one of the European
countries?
Nope.
Yes. Apple did admit to criminal guilt for the throttling. In France.
Paris in fact.
Everyone knows this. Except you.
Apple had to publish a public apology for one month.
That means you know nothing about Apple.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 3:10:52 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:
And didn't Apple admit to criminal guilt in one of the European countries? >>Nope.
Yes. Apple did admit to criminal guilt for the throttling.
In France. Paris in fact.
Everyone knows this. Except you.
Apple had to publish a public apology for one month.
On 08/01/2023 19:11, Jolly Roger wrote:
Why do you think Apple can do whatever they want just because
they're rich?
Another bullshit claim.
You're the one saying Apple has too much money to care about the law.
Apple can treat their customers like shit.
You're the one saying Apple has too much money to care about the law.
I literally did not say that
Yes. Apple did admit to criminal guilt for the throttling. In France.
Paris in fact.
Nope, that's a lie.
Apple did not admit to criminal guilt.
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 9:34:54 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Yes. Apple did admit to criminal guilt for the throttling. In
France. Paris in fact.
Nope, that's a lie.
Apple paid a 25 million euro
Apple did not admit to criminal guilt.
1. You don't know anything about Apple admitting guilt.
2. You don't know anything about Apple paying the criminal fine.
3. You don't know anything about Apple's published apology.
You don't know anything about Apple.
On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 9:34:54 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Yes. Apple did admit to criminal guilt for the throttling. In France.
Paris in fact.
Nope, that's a lie.
Everyone knows Apple paid a 25 million euro *criminal* fine in Paris. Everyone know that, except you.
Apple did not admit to criminal guilt.
You are repeatedly proving you are ignorant of Apple & criminal law.
1. You don't know anything about Apple admitting guilt.
2. You don't know anything about Apple paying the criminal fine.
3. You don't know anything about Apple's published apology.
You don't know anything about Apple.
Specifically, you don't know what *everyone* else knows about Apple.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/07/apple-fined-25m-euros-france-slowing-down-iphones/
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-fined-41-million-for-secretly-slowing-old-iphones-20200210-p53z9n.html
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/02/11/france-fines-apple-41-million-for-slowing-down-old-iphones/
1. You don't know anything about Apple admitting guilt.
2. You don't know anything about Apple paying the criminal fine.
3. You don't know anything about Apple's published apology.
You don't know anything about Apple.
Specifically, you don't know what *everyone* else knows about Apple.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/07/apple-fined-25m-euros-france-slowing-down-iphones/
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-fined-41-million-for-secretly-slowing-old-iphones-20200210-p53z9n.html
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/02/11/france-fines-apple-41-million-for-slowing-down-old-iphones/
On 09/01/2023 02:06, Jolly Roger wrote:
You're the one saying Apple has too much money to care about the
law.
I literally did not say that
Then why did you say Apple has so much money that paying criminal
fines and paying somewhere around a billion dollars in civil lawsuits
is nothing.
Why don't you understand it's not the size of the criminal/civil
penalty that matters but what Apple did to the customer is what
matters here.
You seem to think Apple has enough money to treat its customers like
shit.
What Apple actually did was extend runtime of devices with aged and
dying batteries that would have otherwise spontaneously shut down under
load. : )
Apple paid a 25 million euro
Apple did not admit to criminal guilt. You're a liar.
2. You don't know anything about Apple paying the criminal fine.
I know that paying a fine is not admitting vriminal guilt.
3. You don't know anything about Apple's published apology.
I know that publishing an apology is also not admitting criminal guilt.
Here they are.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/07/apple-fined-25m-euros-france-slowing-down-iphones/
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/apple-fined-41-million-for-secretly-slowing-old-iphones-20200210-p53z9n.html
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/02/11/france-fines-apple-41-million-for-slowing-down-old-iphones/
Everyone knows what Apple did except you.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:24:48 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Apple paid a 25 million euro
Apple did not admit to criminal guilt. You're a liar.
If that were the case, it would be the first time in history.
You know nothing at all.
If that were the case, it would be the first time in history.
It's nowhere near the first time in history, dumb fuck.
In fact, it's
standard practice that corporations admit no wrong doing in a
settlement.
The fact that you don't know this says way more about you
than anyone else, you complete imbecile.
Everyone knows what Apple did except you.
Actually he knows it too.
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:31:53 PM, sms wrote:
Everyone knows what Apple did except you.
Actually he knows it too.
Are you sure Jolly Roger knew about Apple admitting criminal guilt?
Then why did Jolly Roger call me a liar if he knew all about it already?
And what is the advantage of Jolly Roger denying what everyone knows?
Is he just playing dumb?
On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 10:29:05 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
If that were the case, it would be the first time in history.
It's nowhere near the first time in history, dumb fuck.
How can you call someone a "dumb fuck" who claims a company settling a
case without admitting guilt is supposedly "the first time in
history"?
In fact, it's standard practice that corporations admit no wrong
doing in a settlement.
You call me a "dumb fuck" and yet you clearly don't know the
difference between a civil and a criminal action.
The fact that you don't know this says way more about you than
anyone else, you complete imbecile.
you STILL don't understand the difference between a civil and a
criminal case
As I said, for what you claimed to have happened, it would have to be
the first time in history
Why don't you stop calling everyone else a "dumb fuck" because you
are?
Nothing in that article states that all of those were actually necessary
On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 9:17:51 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
Nothing in that article states that all of those were actually necessary
Now that I've been proven wrong several times in this thread, I'm just
going to double down like the huge man-child I am.
We expect no more from you
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 8:41:15 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
We expect no more from you
It's not about me since I backed up all my statements.
Everyone knows what Apple did except you.
Actually he knows it too.
Are you sure Jolly Roger knew about Apple admitting criminal guilt?
Absolutely.
Then why did Jolly Roger call me a liar if he knew all about it already?
It's just what he does.
And what is the advantage of Jolly Roger denying what everyone knows?
No one has any idea.
Is he just playing dumb?
No.
Did you see Jolly Roger said Apple settled the /criminal/ case (that they pleaded guilty to) but by not admitting guilt (according to Jolly Roger)?
That's not even possible.
How can he make those impossible claims over and over again in this
newsgroup and still maintain any semblance of basic human credibility?
On 10/01/2023 15:36, sms wrote:
Everyone knows what Apple did except you.
Actually he knows it too.
Are you sure Jolly Roger knew about Apple admitting criminal guilt?
Absolutely.
Then why did Jolly Roger call me a liar if he knew all about it already?
It's just what he does.
And what is the advantage of Jolly Roger denying what everyone knows?
No one has any idea.
Is he just playing dumb?
No.
Did you see Jolly Roger said Apple settled the /criminal/ case (that they pleaded guilty to) but by not admitting guilt (according to Jolly Roger)?
That's not even possible.
How can he make those impossible claims over and over again in this
newsgroup and still maintain any semblance of basic human credibility?
The actual reason for the throttling was
to prevent unexpected shutdowns
which were occurring because of a design
issue in the power management section of the phone.
The iPhone 8/8 Plus
had hardware changes that eliminated the need for throttling, and Apple confirmed this.
How can he make those impossible claims over and over again in this
newsgroup and still maintain any semblance of basic human credibility?
Well if you read all the news reports about the settlement, there are
often statements that the settlement does not constitute an admission of guilt,
i.e. "The proposed Settlement to resolve this litigation is not
an admission of guilt or any wrongdoing of any kind by Apple, and it is
not an admission by Apple of the truth of any of the allegations in this litigation." Such language is often included in these settlements. Technically they did not "plead guilty" they agreed to the settlement
and avoided a trial.
I think that the allegation that the throttling was done to encourage
owners to buy a new phone was not quite accurate even though that was
the end-result for many owners.
The actual reason for the throttling was
to prevent unexpected shutdowns which were occurring because of a design issue in the power management section of the phone. The iPhone 8/8 Plus
had hardware changes that eliminated the need for throttling, and Apple confirmed this.
Apple pleaded guilty in the /criminal/ case but settled the /civil/
cases.
the hardware changes in the iphone 8 were chosen *before* this became
an issue due to apple's lengthy design cycle.
On 2023-01-12, Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> wrote:
Apple pleaded guilty in the /criminal/ case but settled the /civil/
cases.
If this was true (it isn't) you'd show proof of Apple supposedly
pleading guilty. You can't because there is none because it didn't
happen. Put up or shut up.
"As part of the deal, Apple did not admit to breaking any laws or any
other wrongdoing."
While these were civil cases, it was essentially nolo contendere, not contesting the charges, which is admitting that they were true, and then settling the case but without an explicit guilty plea.
There were so many similar cases, in countries with different laws, that perhaps in some country there was an explicit plea of guilty, but I
couldn't find such a case.
It's true that the throttling was done to prevent unexpected shutdowns
once they realized that the power circuitry was unable to deliver
sufficient power for the Bionic chip to operate at maximum speed as the battery capacity decreased.
The side-effect was to drive more upgrades
and shorten the life of the affected models.
Had they simply popped up a
message on the affected models "Battery Replacement Needed to Maintain
Peak Performance" none of this would have happened, just some grumbling
over having to replace a battery so soon.
The final verdict in the /criminal/ case was that Apple was "guilty" of the offenses they were charged with. Apple paid the /criminal/ fine for that.
On 1/12/2023 8:08 AM, Calum wrote:
The final verdict in the criminal case was that Apple was "guilty"
of the offenses they were charged with. Apple paid the criminal
fine for that.
Can you please post a link to the case where they were found guilty
by a court? I could not find that case. All the cases I could find
had a negotiated settlement after they were accused of deceptive
practices.
I guess that you could claim that by paying fines, or negotiating >settlements, that this constituted an admission of guilt.
The French court did say that "Apple "committed the crime of
deceptive commercial practice by omission" but AFAIK, Apple just paid
the fine and agreed to display a notice that iOS updates could slow
down their devices.
Here's just one: https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16868818/apple-french-probe-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit-hop-cpu-throttling
Here's just one:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16868818/apple-french-probe-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit-hop-cpu-throttling
Yes, that article states that there was a criminal probe. What I had
been looking for was any indication that Apple had pleaded guilty to any
of the charges against them.
All I could find was several settlements that were paid by Apple, but no guilty pleas. Perhaps there have been some, just wanted someone to post
a link to one.
It's frustrating trying to have a conversation with people who don't know anything about Apple just because they've never read any news about Apple.
I guess that you could claim that by paying fines, or negotiating >>settlements, that this constituted an admission of guilt.
Here's just one: https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16868818/apple-french-probe-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit-hop-cpu-throttling
Here's just one: https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16868818/apple-french-probe-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit-hop-cpu-throttling
Here's just one:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16868818/apple-french-probe-iphone-slowdown-lawsuit-hop-cpu-throttling
That links to these https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-09/apple-probed-as-french-customers-say-iphones-are-designed-to-die
https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/12/28/16826530/apple-sued-iphone-battery-slowdown-france-planned-obsolescence-illegal
Can you please post a link to the case where they were found guilty by a court?
On 1/12/2023 2:59 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
https://www.thelocal.fr/20171228/french-lawsuit-launched-against-apple-for-alleged-crime-of-slowing-down-iphones/
https://www.halteobsolescence.org/hop-porte-plainte-contre-apple-obsolescence-programmee/
https://www.scribd.com/document/367959494/Plainte-Apple-obsolescence-programme-e-27-12-17
Some were in English like this tell-tale sentence about it being a criminal >> accusation against Apple that is heard in a major criminal court in France. >>
"The suit will be heard in a criminal court"
Try https://www.deepl.com/translator
It made this https://www.halteobsolescence.org/hop-porte-plainte-contre-apple-obsolescence-programmee/
Into this
PARIS, December 27, 2017 - Following recent revelations in several media outlets reporting slowdowns in the iPhone 6, 6S, SE and 7 after the latest operating system update, the association HOP / Halte Obsolescence
Programm (Halt Planned Obsolescence) filed a complaint today against Apple
on the basis of the crime of planned obsolescence.
With this complaint, France is the third country (after the United States
and Israel) in which the Cupertino-based company has been accused of programmed obsolescence.
But the difference is that France has made planned obsolescence a crime.
The 2015 law on energy transition prohibits "the practice of
programmed obsolescence, which is defined by the use of techniques by which the person responsible for the marketing of a product aims to deliberately reduce its lifespan to increase the replacement rate.
The complaint is therefore a criminal one; the law provides for a maximum penalty of two years in prison, a fine of 300,000 euros and 5% of annual turnover.
In its complaint, the association HOP (Halte Obsolescence Programm demonstrates on the one hand that Apple clamps its older iPhone models by means of an operating system update, and stresses on the other hand that
this update takes place at the same time as the release of the iPhone 8.
The slowing down of older devices seems to have the deliberate intention of pushing Apple customers to buy the new model.
According to Laetitia Vasseur, Co-founder and General Delegate of the association HOP everything is orchestrated to force consumers to renew
their smartphones.
At more than 1,200 per phone, which is more than the minimum wage, these practices are unacceptable and cannot go unpunished. It is our mission to defend consumers and the environment against this waste organized by Apple.
Me Oile Meunier, the lawyer of the association, declares: It has been
several years that Apple customers have noticed slowdowns just at the time
of the release of a new model. But this time, experts have technically demonstrated it and Apple had no choice but to acknowledge it.
Why the silence all these years?
Why this slowdown at the time of the release of the new model?
These are some of the questions that the criminal investigation
will answer.
https://www.thelocal.fr/20171228/french-lawsuit-launched-against-apple-for-alleged-crime-of-slowing-down-iphones/
https://www.halteobsolescence.org/hop-porte-plainte-contre-apple-obsolescence-programmee/
https://www.scribd.com/document/367959494/Plainte-Apple-obsolescence-programme-e-27-12-17
Some were in English like this tell-tale sentence about it being a criminal accusation against Apple that is heard in a major criminal court in France.
"The suit will be heard in a criminal court"
Frances laws dont count in America,
Apple is an American company,
and
therefore it means nothing and isnt criminal.
On 1/12/2023 12:57 PM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
I predict Jolly Roger and nospam will spin this into an excuse about
France’s laws don’t count in America, Apple is an American company, and >> therefore it means nothing and isn’t criminal.
That would be in character.
But the reality is that a faulty design is not a crime.
At the time the 6, 6s, and 7 models were released, Apple did not realize
that the power circuit design was unable to compensate for a battery
that was aging and whose peak output had been reduced, and that
unexpected shutdowns would be the result. They likely never tested the product with batteries that weren't new.
While the throttling definitely led to premature replacement of iPhone
6, 6s, and 7 models, that was not the original intent of throttling. The intent was to prevent unexpected shutdowns which would have generated a
lot of warranty and AppleCare+ claims.
Companies often pay fines rather than going through the time and expense
of a trial, where the outcome is uncertain and where they want to avoid
more publicity. The narrative of "well they paid the fine, that is an admission of guilt" is not accurate.
I worked for a company where we throttled our CPU speed based on
temperature but our customers all were aware of this.
In article <tpps87$1apm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
France¹s laws don¹t count in America,
they don't, regardless of the issue. different countries have different
laws and companies must follow the laws for whatever country in which
they do business.
Apple is an American company,
it's a global company.
and
therefore it means nothing and isn¹t criminal.
it doesn't mean what you might hope it does.
I predict Jolly Roger and nospam will spin this into an excuse about France’s laws don’t count in America, Apple is an American company, and therefore it means nothing and isn’t criminal.
It's frustrating trying to have a conversation with people who don't know anything about Apple just because they've never read any news about Apple.
But the reality is that a faulty design is not a crime.
At the time the 6, 6s, and 7 models were released, Apple did not realize
that the power circuit design was unable to compensate for a battery
that was aging and whose peak output had been reduced,
and that
unexpected shutdowns would be the result. They likely never tested the product with batteries that weren't new.
While the throttling definitely led to premature replacement of iPhone
6, 6s, and 7 models,
that was not the original intent of throttling. The
intent was to prevent unexpected shutdowns
which would have generated a
lot of warranty and AppleCare+ claims.
I worked for a company where we throttled our CPU speed based on
temperature but our customers all were aware of this.
Your customers were aware? Well, that’s the main difference here.
therefore it means nothing and isnt criminal.
it doesn't mean what you might hope it does.
On 1/12/2023 5:20 PM, nospam wrote:
therefore it means nothing and isn�t criminal.
it doesn't mean what you might hope it does.
It's pretty simple.
The 2015 law prohibits "the practice of programmed obsolescence, which is defined by the use of techniques by which the person responsible for the marketing of a product aims to deliberately reduce its lifespan to increase the replacement rate."
Apple pled guilty.
Not sure why you're so upset that there was no criminal prosecution
<https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse>,
which states "The HOP association nevertheless regrets that the
procedure used, namely the penal transaction, deprives consumers of a
public trial on planned obsolescence."
On 12/01/2023 17:46, sms wrote:
Not sure why you're so upset that there was no criminal prosecution
Please don't make things up just because you didn't know about this case.
You're the one who thought it was a civil case that Apple was guilty of.
It's criminal.
Apple pleaded guilty of the criminal charges against them.
And where did anyone say they were upset there was no criminal prosecution?
There /was/ a criminal prosecution.
How did you whoosh on that?
That's how the law works.
The Paris prosecutor pressed charges and Apple came before a Paris judge.
The judge asked Apple "How do you plead" & Apple said "Guilty, your Honor".
On 1/12/2023 5:20 PM, nospam wrote:
therefore it means nothing and isn�t criminal.
it doesn't mean what you might hope it does.
It's pretty simple.
The 2015 law prohibits "the practice of programmed obsolescence, which is defined by the use of techniques by which the person responsible for the marketing of a product aims to deliberately reduce its lifespan to increase the replacement rate."
Apple pled guilty.
But the reality is that a faulty design is not a crime.
On 12/01/2023 17:46, sms wrote:
Not sure why you're so upset that there was no criminal prosecution
Please don't make things up just because you didn't know about this case.
On 1/12/2023 5:20 PM, nospam wrote:
therefore it means nothing and isnt criminal.
it doesn't mean what you might hope it does.
It's pretty simple.
The 2015 law prohibits "the practice of programmed obsolescence, which
is defined by the use of techniques by which the person responsible
for the marketing of a product aims to deliberately reduce its
lifespan to increase the replacement rate."
Apple pled guilty.
Big Dog <BD7436@gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/12/2023 2:59 PM, RonTheGuy wrote:
https://www.thelocal.fr/20171228/french-lawsuit-launched-against-apple-for-alleged-crime-of-slowing-down-iphones/
https://www.halteobsolescence.org/hop-porte-plainte-contre-apple-obsolescence-programmee/
https://www.scribd.com/document/367959494/Plainte-Apple-obsolescence-programme-e-27-12-17
Some were in English like this tell-tale sentence about it being a criminal >>> accusation against Apple that is heard in a major criminal court in France. >>>
"The suit will be heard in a criminal court"
Try https://www.deepl.com/translator
It made this
https://www.halteobsolescence.org/hop-porte-plainte-contre-apple-obsolescence-programmee/
Into this
PARIS, December 27, 2017 - Following recent revelations in several media
outlets reporting slowdowns in the iPhone 6, 6S, SE and 7 after the latest >> operating system update, the association HOP / Halte Obsolescence
Programm (Halt Planned Obsolescence) filed a complaint today against Apple >> on the basis of the crime of planned obsolescence.
With this complaint, France is the third country (after the United States
and Israel) in which the Cupertino-based company has been accused of
programmed obsolescence.
But the difference is that France has made planned obsolescence a crime.
The 2015 law on energy transition prohibits "the practice of
programmed obsolescence, which is defined by the use of techniques by which >> the person responsible for the marketing of a product aims to deliberately >> reduce its lifespan to increase the replacement rate.
The complaint is therefore a criminal one; the law provides for a maximum
penalty of two years in prison, a fine of 300,000 euros and 5% of annual
turnover.
In its complaint, the association HOP (Halte Obsolescence Programm
demonstrates on the one hand that Apple clamps its older iPhone models by
means of an operating system update, and stresses on the other hand that
this update takes place at the same time as the release of the iPhone 8.
The slowing down of older devices seems to have the deliberate intention of >> pushing Apple customers to buy the new model.
According to Laetitia Vasseur, Co-founder and General Delegate of the
association HOP everything is orchestrated to force consumers to renew
their smartphones.
At more than 1,200 per phone, which is more than the minimum wage, these
practices are unacceptable and cannot go unpunished. It is our mission to
defend consumers and the environment against this waste organized by Apple. >>
Me Oile Meunier, the lawyer of the association, declares: It has been
several years that Apple customers have noticed slowdowns just at the time >> of the release of a new model. But this time, experts have technically
demonstrated it and Apple had no choice but to acknowledge it.
Why the silence all these years?
Why this slowdown at the time of the release of the new model?
These are some of the questions that the criminal investigation
will answer.
I predict Jolly Roger and nospam will spin this into an excuse about France’s laws don’t count in America, Apple is an American company, and therefore it means nothing and isn’t criminal.
On 12/01/2023 23:31, sms wrote:
But the reality is that a faulty design is not a crime.
It's not about the faulty design.
Did you read the part in the case notes that Apple /hid/ the changes?
And that Apple refused to let people go back to the older iOS version?
And then that Apple changed the release notes and said they didn't?
Or that Apple never told their own support personal about the slowdown?
It's about the intent.
Apple admitted their /intention/ was to make people buy new iPhones.
Read your own links! https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse
It's pretty simple.
The 2015 law prohibits "the practice of programmed obsolescence, which is defined by the use of techniques by which the person responsible for the marketing of a product aims to deliberately reduce its lifespan to increase the replacement rate."
Apple pled guilty.
On 1/12/2023 4:44 PM, Calum wrote:
On 12/01/2023 17:46, sms wrote:
Not sure why you're so upset that there was no criminal prosecution
Please don't make things up just because you didn't know about this case.
You might want to read <https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill> to understand what actually transpired.
It's not about the faulty design.
Did you read the part in the case notes that Apple /hid/ the changes?
And that Apple refused to let people go back to the older iOS version?
And that Apple refused to let people go back to the older iOS version?
Apple has never let people go back, so... ...what?
On 12/01/2023 23:31, sms wrote:
But the reality is that a faulty design is not a crime.
It's not about the faulty design.
You might want to read <https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill>
to understand what actually transpired.
I had one customer complain about CPU throttling
On 13/01/2023 0:3, sms wrote:
I had one customer complain about CPU throttling
You might want to read your own link to understand what transpired. https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse
Apple agreed to pay a /criminal/ fine of 25 million Euros.
The DGCCRF has proven beyond reasonable doubt that iPhone holders had not been informed that updates of the iOS operating system (10.2.1 and 11.2)
that they installed were likely to lead to a slowdown in the operation of their device.
These updates slow down the operation of iPhone 6 models, and 7, especially when the batteries are old but customers could not return to the old operating system which didn't slow down the phones even when the batteries were old.
Unable to return to the previous version of the operating system, many consumers had been forced to change battery or even buy a new phone.
This lack of information from Apple to consumers constituted a deceptive commercial practice which is a /criminal/ act according to French law.
Apple accepted these proven /criminal/ findings & paid the /criminal/ fine.
actually they did prior to ios 4 (and a brief time after a new release).
it's also irrelevant.
It's not about the faulty design.
You might want to read <https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill>
to understand what actually transpired.
But the reality is that a faulty design is not a crime.
apple's design is not in any way faulty. such a claim is just more of
your usual baseless unsubstantiated bullshit.
not
a single one of you has been able to provide evidence that Apple plead
guilty and admitted guilt.
On 12/01/2023 17:46, sms wrote:
Not sure why you're so upset that there was no criminal prosecution
Apple pleaded guilty of the criminal charges against them.
Please don't make things up just because you didn't know about this case.
You might want to read <https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill>
to understand what actually transpired.
Did you read the part in the case notes that Apple /hid/ the changes?
they did not hide anything.
On 13/01/2023 1:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
not a single one of you has been able to provide evidence that Apple
plead guilty and admitted guilt.
What you believe isn't even possible in a criminal court system.
How did Apple get convicted of a criminal offense without pleading
guilty?
On 12/01/2023 18:49, sms wrote:
Please don't make things up just because you didn't know about this case. >>You might want to read
<https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill>
to understand what actually transpired.
I read it.
It doesn't say ANYTHING that you think it said.
On 13/01/2023 2:3, nospam wrote:
actually they did prior to ios 4 (and a brief time after a new
release).
it's also irrelevant.
The sole intention of Apple's actions was proven beyond a reasonable
doubt to be to make people buy new iPhones
which Apple admitted
The /criminal/ case was so rock solid that Apple admitted /criminal/
guilt. https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse
On 13/01/2023 2:3, nospam wrote:
Did you read the part in the case notes that Apple /hid/ the changes?
they did not hide anything.
Then why did Apple plead guilty to criminal charges which said they did?
On 13/01/2023 2:3, sms wrote:
It's not about the faulty design.
You might want to read
<https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill>
to understand what actually transpired.
The criminal case was so rock solid that Apple admitted criminal
guilt.
On 13/01/2023 2:3, nospam wrote:
actually they did prior to ios 4 (and a brief time after a new release).
it's also irrelevant.
The sole intention of Apple's actions was proven beyond a reasonable doubt
to be to make people buy new iPhones, which Apple admitted, so for you to
say what's irrelevant is, well, it's irrelevant.
The /criminal/ case was so rock solid that Apple admitted /criminal/ guilt. https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse
On 12/01/2023 18:49, sms wrote:
Please don't make things up just because you didn't know about this
case.
You might want to read
<https://www.jonesday.com/en/insights/2020/03/apple-settles-with-french-authorities-over-25-mill> to understand what actually transpired.
I read it. It doesn't say ANYTHING that you think it said.
Why did you lie?
Why can't you admit you lied?
Why did you whoosh that this was a criminal case?
Why can't you admit you didn't even know about this case?
Stop posting links that you didn't even read first.
The links don't even have the quotes you say they have.
You just made them up.
There can be no conversation when you just make up your quotes.
On 13/01/2023 1:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
not
a single one of you has been able to provide evidence that Apple plead
guilty and admitted guilt.
What you believe isn't even possible in a criminal court system.
How did Apple get convicted of a criminal offense without pleading guilty?
How exactly does that work (in your twisted mind)?
That's a lie you can't back up with factual evidence (as usual).
You're a fucking loser
The French authorities offered a settlement to drop criminal
charges with Apple admitting no wrongdoing, and Apple accepted their
offer.
The charges were dropped, and Apple rightfully admitted no wrongdoing,
you complete fucking idiot.
You might want to read your own link to understand what transpired.
https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse
Apple agreed to pay a /criminal/ fine of 25 million Euros.
Nope. All criminal charges were DROPPED, and Apple admitted NO
WRONGDOING, dick head troll.
I do not understand how the criminal justice system of penalties works.
On 13/01/2023 3:31, Jolly Roger wrote:
The French authorities offered a settlement to drop criminal charges
with Apple admitting no wrongdoing, and Apple accepted their offer.
You do not understand how criminal penalties work.
On 13/01/2023 3:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
You're a fucking loser
Calling me names
doesn't change that Apple pleaded guilty as charged.
On 13/01/2023 3:26, Jolly Roger wrote:
That's a lie you can't back up with factual evidence (as usual).
The "factual evidence" is that Apple was convicted
On 13/01/2023 3:32, Jolly Roger wrote:
You might want to read your own link to understand what transpired.
https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/transaction-avec-le-groupe-apple-pour-pratique-commerciale-trompeuse
Apple agreed to pay a /criminal/ fine of 25 million Euros.
Nope. All criminal charges were DROPPED, and Apple admitted NO
WRONGDOING, dick head troll.
How did Apple accept criminal guilt without admitting criminal
wrongdoing?
I am determined to find a way out of understanding something as simple
as the way the criminal justice system works (along with the way Apple works).
Apple was charged with the crime.
Apple accepted criminal guilt.
Apple paid the criminal fine.
Calling me a "dick head troll" isn't appropriate in this situation
because you are the one who stubbornly refuses to accept what
happened. Not me.
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
In article <xn0nwsricwuqkh3006@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
because it's cheaper than litigation.
it happens all the time, for all sorts of lawsuits.
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
because it's cheaper than litigation.
it happens all the time, for all sorts of lawsuits.
Once again you conveniently left out the main point.
"After all they have so much money, clearing their good name shouldn't
be an
issue if they had done nothing wrong."
Once again you conveniently left out the main point.
"After all they have so much money, clearing their good name shouldn't
be an issue if they had done nothing wrong."
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam would
agree that they did do something wrong.
On 13/01/2023 3:26, Jolly Roger wrote:
That's a lie you can't back up with factual evidence (as usual).
The "factual evidence" is that Apple was convicted of the crime, for which they accepted guilt, paid the fine, and published the apology for a month.
On 13/01/2023 3:29, Jolly Roger wrote:
You're a fucking loser
Calling me names doesn't change that Apple pleaded guilty as charged.
Jolly Roger wrote:
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
After
all they have so much money clearing their good name shouldn't be an
issue if they had done nothing wrong. Are you saying they gave in to
an extortion scheme by France?
By the way, why don't we have planned obsolescence laws in the US just
like the one in France? Everyone says we should be more like the
Europeans so let's start with that one first. That should get the
attention of multinational conglomerates.
In article <tps7t7$1m1ce$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong.
nospam wrote:
In article <tps7t7$1m1ce$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong. Apple is his
religion.
nospam wrote:
In article <tps7t7$1m1ce$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong. Apple is his
religion.
In article <xn0nwsx5tx2cc4w00b@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong.
apple does lots of things wrong.
not surprisingly, the trolls, who don't actually use their products
(or at most, just casually), can only spew the same easily debunked
myths.
they never can articulate actual problems.
nospam wrote:
In article <xn0nwsx5tx2cc4w00b@reader443.eternal-september.org>, >>badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong.
apple does lots of things wrong.
not surprisingly, the trolls, who don't actually use their products
(or at most, just casually), can only spew the same easily debunked
myths.
they never can articulate actual problems.
I would like to hear you complain about Apple products or practices
but I never have. It would make you a little more human and credible.
On 1/13/2023 8:59 AM, badgolferman wrote:
<snip>
Once again you conveniently left out the main point.
"After all they have so much money, clearing their good name
shouldn't be an issue if they had done nothing wrong."
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam would
agree that they did do something wrong.
It was an outcome that everyone was okay with, if not completely happy
with.
nospam wrote:
In article <tps7t7$1m1ce$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong. Apple is his
religion.
Jolly Roger wrote:
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
After all they have so much money
clearing their good name shouldn't be an issue if they had done
nothing wrong.
Are you saying they gave in to an extortion scheme by France?
On 1/13/2023 11:23 AM, badgolferman wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article <tps7t7$1m1ce$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
Apple never said that they had done nothing wrong. Even nospam
would agree that they did do something wrong.
do not put words in my mouth.
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong. Apple is his
religion.
LOL
since Apple admitted wrong-doing
and apologized
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong.
apple does lots of things wrong.
not surprisingly, the trolls, who don't actually use their products
(or at most, just casually), can only spew the same easily debunked
myths.
they never can articulate actual problems.
I would like to hear you complain about Apple products or practices but
I never have. It would make you a little more human and credible.
In article <xn0nwsxbwx2l73j00c@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong.
apple does lots of things wrong.
not surprisingly, the trolls, who don't actually use their products
(or at most, just casually), can only spew the same easily debunked
myths.
they never can articulate actual problems.
I would like to hear you complain about Apple products or practices but
I never have. It would make you a little more human and credible.
if you insist. below is just a partial list of issues and annoyances,
ranging from minor to serious.
note that they are things that people who actually use the relevant
products would know about, versus the usual non-stop ignorant trolling bullshit that is easily refuted, such as airtags won't work in a van
(they do) or face id doesn't work in the dark (it does).
the 1st gen apple pencil was an inelegant design, with a clear risk of snapping off the lightning connector: <https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2018/10/apple-pencil-charging- 100776129-large.jpg>
the reason they did that was so the pencil could easily be connected to
an ipad for a quick charge without needing to carry a separate cable
and charger. however, it's hard to believe that was the best they could
come up with. oh, and the cap for the lightning plug on the top of the
pencil is easily lost.
the 10th gen ipad switched to usb-c, except it continues to support the
1st gen apple pencil that uses a lightning plug. not only does that
require an adapter, but it *also* needs a cable, which is even worse. <https://images.macrumors.com/t/TpfQXmlZVeRPjN1eR5sePu7GFYY=/1600x0/arti cle-new/2022/10/Apple-Pencil-iPad-Adapter.jpeg>
design constraints prevent the 10th gen ipad from supporting the 2nd
gen pencil, but what they did is not a good solution.
another option is a logitech crayon, except that won't help the
millions of people who already have a 1st gen pencil.
similar issues will occur with the iphone if/when switches to usb-c.
with a *lot* of complaints, something the trolls completely ignore
because they don't use any of the devices they criticize beyond the
basics (if they use them at all, which is suspect) and are oblivious to
real world problems that people encounter.
ipads used to have a physical switch which was originally rotation
lock. a few years later, apple changed it to be mute to match the
iphone, except that is less useful on an ipad. users were *not* happy, causing apple to add a setting to choose which function they preferred.
they later removed the switch entirely, which means both actions are
now inconvenient.
tapping the dynamic island on the iphone 14 pro launches the relevant
app while tap&hold brings up a panel with additional information, which
is entirely backwards. what *should* happen is a simple tap brings up a
sheet with additional detail and is quickly dismissed with another tap,
while tap&hold (itself a longer action) launches the relevant app for a lengthier interaction.
reduce white point is available on ios, yet for some unknown reason,
it's not available on mac os. there are third party solutions, but at
least the ones i've seen so far are not good. it's also a trivial thing
to add too, since it's in the graphics layer and not specific to either platform.
finder in mac os x is a huge pile of shit and it's getting worse. among
its many problems include inaccurate file/folder sizes (although that's better in apfs), time zones are cached (which makes absolutely no
sense), view options are often not what the user chose partly due to
the .ds_store clusterfuck and can't ever work with split volumes, tag
sorting in finder windows doesn't match the order they are in the menu,
and perhaps the biggest problem is spatiality is a distant memory.
imovie and final cut were rewritten from scratch, except the new
versions had fewer features than the old versions, some of which were
slowly added back with successive versions. also, quicktime player x is nowhere near as functional as quicktime player 7.
itunes on mac can't download apps anymore (for the forked version that continued to support apps), although amusingly, that worked with the
windows version.
manually manage music in itunes worked differently for an iphone versus
an ipod touch, despite both devices being essentially the same and
running the same os, although it's been far too long to remember the
details. at one of the apple developer conferences, i asked someone on
the itunes team about it and he agreed it made no sense, but had no
idea why there was a difference.
the original ipod didn't support genre, whereas itunes did. it was
added to the ipod a couple of years later, although i forget exactly
when.
the buttons on the 3rd gen ipod bounced, making it somewhat unusable.
it also had a dual usb/firewire cable which made syncing and charging
more difficult than it needed to be for windows pc users. mac users had
a usb connector that wasn't needed.
the 3rd gen ipod shuffle, aka the 'buttonless shuffle' was a terrible
idea, which is why apple reverted back to the 2nd gen design the
following year for the 4th gen, with minor changes.
2nd, 3rd & 4th shuffles: <https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_ US/ipod/ipodshuffle/ipod-shuffle-2nd-gen.png> <https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_ US/ipod/ipodshuffle/ipod-shuffle-3rd-gen.png> <https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_ US/ipod/ipodshuffle/ipod-shuffle-4th-gen.png>
the free u2 album, which annoyed people so much that apple had to
release a utility to remove it from their music library.
ipod socks. yes, this was a real product. <https://s.hdnux.com/photos/10/04/11/2114149/8/rawImage.jpg>
ping and whatever its failed successor was, whose name i don't recall.
powermac g4 cube. it was a clever design, but riddled with a variety of problems. on the other hand, it has become a bit of a collectors item.
g3 all-in-one, aka the molar (as well as what looks like a mac tv in background, another strange and mis-designed product): <https://3894a8e173f5f8870a41-c88208a08312eda3cf96a15131ffd631.ssl.cf1.r ackcdn.com/molar-mac-dsc018651523385514548.jpg>
macintosh portable, more aptly called the luggable. although it was a
decent mac at the time (with some odd programming quirks), it was not
that portable, weighing in at 16 pounds. the plastic enclosure alone
without any of the computer parts inside was itself heavy. it did have
a battery and a handle, so it was technically 'portable'.
<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Macintosh_Por table-IMG_7541.jpg/2560px-Macintosh_Portable-IMG_7541.jpg>
one unusual feature of the mac portable was the keyboard and trackball
were removable and could be swapped so that the trackball was on the
left for left-handed users (note the two indentations on the lid, one
on either side of the display itself). there was also an optional
numeric keypad, although installing that meant not having an integrated trackball, thereby requiring an attached mouse, making it even less
portable than it already was.
pippin. <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Pippin-Atmark- Console-Set.jpg/1280px-Pippin-Atmark-Console-Set.jpg>
geoport modems. note that geoport itself was actually very good, it was
just the modems based on it that had problems. windows had something
similar with winmodems, but without the dedicated i/o processor (iop)
that macs had, making that implementation worse.
cocktail party trivia: the mac iops were 6502 cpus (what was in the
apple ii computer), which could easily handle high-speed serial communication, and when idle, they calculated the fibonacci series,
because why not.
nxhosting, a feature in nextstep/openstep (the ancestor of mac os x)
was never implemented on mac os. it was incredibly useful, something
which would be even more useful now with much faster networking, far
more portable laptops and mobile devices.
xcode, the software development environment for writing apps, no longer supports bluetooth le in the ios simulator, which means writing ios
apps that use bluetooth le must be pushed to an actual device for
testing, making it more of a hassle than it used to be. apple never
gave a reason why they removed it and i'm still bitter about it,
roughly ten years later.
update events are processed before mouse events, potentially causing unexpected results because what ultimately processes the event isn't
what user thinks they tapped or clicked. worst case, that can cause
data loss, although most of the time it's mostly an annoyance.
the ios activity indicator never worked properly and is often out of
sync with reality because it's not tied to actual activity.
core data with cloudkit. it's better now, but the early days, it was a disaster, with many developers needing to do a lot of extra work to
prevent data loss, namely finding an alternative.
iphone os 2 had a very nasty bug where backups could take many hours to complete. fortunately, that was fixed rather quickly.
screen sharing no longer supports many non-ascii characters, for
absolutely no reason. the older versions did, so it's something that
was deliberately removed.
the original apple watch was released prematurely. the hardware wasn't
ready and watchos 1 was not great, with watchos 2 only somewhat better.
some features were just weird, like sending heartbeats to someone else. watchos 3 was a *major* improvement.
the original apple watch supported apps, but they weren't good because
they were actually iphone apps with a remote view on the watch. that
meant user actions were sent from the watch to the phone, which did
whatever it needed to do and then the results were sent back to the
watch to display it, all done over bluetooth. one need not be an app developer to realize how inefficient this is. what they should have
done is say 'apps coming soon'.
that's long been replaced with native apps and now they're much better, although still limited due to the tight power budget.
the apple watch only pairs with an iphone. it can't be paired with an
ipad or ipod touch (or mac, for that matter). it also does not support autonomous lte.
the siri remote with the touchpad at the top was *awful*. they added a
white ring which did absolutely nothing to fix the problem. it was
finally redesigned to something much better.
<https://external-preview.redd.it/DDPX5tH2EXgEMXdUtrbEZQD2DrzoF-Wzsqj6ji AbRlY.jpg?auto=webp&s=5b5141133872075656b7a7ba9f868b8495f112bc>
for some reason, the new remote does not have a built in airtag, which
would be very practical. who hasn't lost a tv remote in the couch or
their kids put it somewhere?? there are third party cases that hold
both a remote and an airtag, however, they just add to the bulk, plus
you also have to buy an airtag.
<https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/22718988/siri_remote_ airtag_case.jpg>
some of the g3 imacs were hideously ugly, notably flower power and blue dalmatian. the story behind those is somewhat amusing. <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/IMac_G3_Flower_Powe r_and_Blue_Dalmatian.png>
the puck mouse with the imac g3 series was awful. it was round and
lacked physical cues for how it was oriented, which meant that the
pointer didn't always move in the direction the physical mouse did. spatiality is a concept entirely lost at apple. various companies made snap-on attachments so that it was no longer round, mostly solving the problem.
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjPsAhcUcAAORI2?format=jpg>
the mouse with the tiny trackball, officially called the mighty mouse
(until apple got sued) and affectionally known as the pea mouse, was horrible. the track-pea constantly gummed up from dirt and finger oils,
and was *very* difficult to clean. also, the side buttons often falsed
when holding it. <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Apple_Mighty_Mouse_ Wireless_in_perspective.jpg>
the ios-ification of mac os is *really* annoying.
one design problem is that many dialog windows are taller than they are
wide, which makes sense for a phone that's almost always used in
portrait mode, however, it's a *bad* idea for a desktop or laptop with displays that are wider than they are tall. another problem is there's
less room for the text, which may not entirely fit.
<https://i0.wp.com/morrick.me/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/open-app-warnin g2.png> <https://i0.wp.com/morrick.me/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/open-app-warnin g2-HS.png>
system settings in mac os ventura is a massive clusterfuck for all
sorts of reasons. a lot has been written about this and almost all of
it bad, and not just because it's different. to be fair, the previous
system preferences was a mess and needed to be reorganized, but what
they did with this is *bad*.
In article <xn0nwsxbwx2l73j00c@reader443.eternal-september.org>,
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
nospam would NEVER agree Apple did something wrong.
apple does lots of things wrong.
not surprisingly, the trolls, who don't actually use their products
(or at most, just casually), can only spew the same easily debunked
myths.
they never can articulate actual problems.
I would like to hear you complain about Apple products or practices
but I never have. It would make you a little more human and
credible.
if you insist. below is just a partial list of issues and annoyances,
ranging from minor to serious.
(snip)
Okay, to be fair you listed many items. However the vast majority of them
are not iPhone issues and mean nothing to me since I don’t have those other devices.
One thing I’d like to say is: All of these are issues which are annoying to you and which you would like changed. The same is true of things the rest
of us bring up which are annoying to us but which you don’t care about.
the 1st gen apple pencil was an inelegant design, with a clear risk of snapping off the lightning connector:
<https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2018/10/apple-pencil-charging-
100776129-large.jpg>
the reason they did that was so the pencil could easily be connected to
an ipad for a quick charge without needing to carry a separate cable
and charger. however, it's hard to believe that was the best they could
come up with. oh, and the cap for the lightning plug on the top of the
pencil is easily lost.
litigation is expensive (and has no upper limit) and many times, it's a simple business decision to settle versus drag it out in court.
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
By paying the fine Apple avoided a trial and avoided criminal charges, without pleading guilty.
Your implication that all companies that settle cases are guilty is both incorrect and asinine.
Yep, their official apology in this instance stated they apologized for letting customers down
since Apple admitted wrong-doing
Apple did not admit wrongdoing in court, and was not found guilty by the court.
and apologized
Clearly you didn't read the actual apology. What do you *think* it said, smart guy? ; )
Okay, to be fair you listed many items. However the vast majority of them
are not iPhone issues and mean nothing to me since I dont have those other devices.
One thing Id like to say is: All of these are issues which are annoying to you and which you would like changed. The same is true of things the rest
of us bring up which are annoying to us but which you dont care about. But when you dismiss our issues constantly as not needed or no one cares that
in itself is annoying too.
That and the placement of the charge port on the Magic Mouse really make
you question the judgement of whoever finally made the decision to go
with those designs...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 10:28:54 -0800, sms wrote:
By paying the fine Apple avoided a trial and avoided criminal charges,
without pleading guilty.
Wrong. You are still confusing civil law with criminal law.
Apple pled guilty.
To a criminal offense.
And Apple paid the criminal fine.
You need to learn criminal law doesn't work the same way as civil law.
finder in mac os x is a huge pile of shit and it's getting worse.
among its many problems include inaccurate file/folder sizes (although
that's better in apfs), time zones are cached (which makes absolutely
no sense), view options are often not what the user chose partly due
to the .ds_store clusterfuck and can't ever work with split volumes,
tag sorting in finder windows doesn't match the order they are in the
menu, and perhaps the biggest problem is spatiality is a distant
memory.
imovie and final cut were rewritten from scratch, except the new
versions had fewer features than the old versions, some of which were
slowly added back with successive versions. also, quicktime player x
is nowhere near as functional as quicktime player 7.
itunes on mac can't download apps anymore (for the forked version that continued to support apps), although amusingly, that worked with the
windows version.
the puck mouse with the imac g3 series was awful. it was round and
lacked physical cues for how it was oriented, which meant that the
pointer didn't always move in the direction the physical mouse did.
the mouse with the tiny trackball, officially called the mighty mouse
(until apple got sued) and affectionally known as the pea mouse, was horrible. the track-pea constantly gummed up from dirt and finger
oils, and was *very* difficult to clean.
system settings in mac os ventura is a massive clusterfuck for all
sorts of reasons. a lot has been written about this and almost all of
it bad, and not just because it's different. to be fair, the previous
system preferences was a mess and needed to be reorganized, but what
they did with this is *bad*.
finder in mac os x is a huge pile of shit and it's getting worse.
among its many problems include inaccurate file/folder sizes (although that's better in apfs), time zones are cached (which makes absolutely
no sense), view options are often not what the user chose partly due
to the .ds_store clusterfuck and can't ever work with split volumes,
tag sorting in finder windows doesn't match the order they are in the
menu, and perhaps the biggest problem is spatiality is a distant
memory.
Right there with you on that one. Finder is nothing like it was back in classic Mac OS or even early versions of OS X.
It's my number one pet
peeve at the moment. The repeated stalls, window views that refuse to
stay where I set them, and other bugginess force me to relaunch it
sometimes several times a day.
the puck mouse with the imac g3 series was awful. it was round and
lacked physical cues for how it was oriented, which meant that the
pointer didn't always move in the direction the physical mouse did.
Worst mouse Apple ever made. : ) Still have a couple in a box somewhere.
Not sure why though...
system settings in mac os ventura is a massive clusterfuck for all
sorts of reasons. a lot has been written about this and almost all of
it bad, and not just because it's different. to be fair, the previous system preferences was a mess and needed to be reorganized, but what
they did with this is *bad*.
That's one of the primary reasons holding me back from upgrading at
home. Not interested!
badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
Okay, to be fair you listed many items. However the vast majority of
them are not iPhone issues and mean nothing to me since I don’t have
those other devices.
To continue to be fair, you asked “I would like to hear you complain
about Apple products or practices but I never have. “
Not iPhones in particular. Just Apple products. So he DID answer
your request.
One thing I’d like to say is: All of these are issues which are
annoying to you and which you would like changed. The same is true of
things the rest of us bring up which are annoying to us but which you
don’t care about.
And what issues would those be? That Apple “pleaded guilty” in
France? Hint: that did not happen.
That the entire 10GB of iOS is rebuilt and sent out to a billion
iPhones even if only 1 line of code has been changed? Hint: that
does not happen.
That Android can do “ultrasonic file transfers” but iOS can not?
Hint: there is no such thing as “ultrasonic file transfers”.
That Bluetooth on iOS is “non standard”? Hint: it is not.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
if you insist. below is just a partial list of issues and annoyances,
ranging from minor to serious.
(snip)
Okay, to be fair you listed many items. However the vast majority of them
are not iPhone issues and mean nothing to me since I don’t have those other devices.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 15:50:10 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
Apple paid a settlement fine, and admitted no wrongdoing.
Why would Apple pay the settlement fine if they were innocent?
It's impossible what Jolly Roger and nospam are so desperate to claim.
Neither one has any understanding of how civil & criminal law differs.
In article <k2m218Fb3tU8@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
That and the placement of the charge port on the Magic Mouse really make
you question the judgement of whoever finally made the decision to go
with those designs...
i don't find that to be a problem at all. it's a wireless mouse which
is charged when *not* using it.
flipping it over is less of a hassle than removing the aa batteries of
the previous version, plus a few minutes of charge gives hours of run
time.
In article <k2me0pF2ffdU1@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
finder in mac os x is a huge pile of shit and it's getting worse.
among its many problems include inaccurate file/folder sizes
(although that's better in apfs), time zones are cached (which
makes absolutely no sense), view options are often not what the
user chose partly due to the .ds_store clusterfuck and can't ever
work with split volumes, tag sorting in finder windows doesn't
match the order they are in the menu, and perhaps the biggest
problem is spatiality is a distant memory.
Right there with you on that one. Finder is nothing like it was back
in classic Mac OS or even early versions of OS X.
all versions of finder x are horrible. the nexties hated classic mac
os and wanted it to be like nextstep/openstep. fortunately, the two individuals behind that are long gone, although the damage is done.
It's my number one pet peeve at the moment. The repeated stalls,
window views that refuse to stay where I set them, and other
bugginess force me to relaunch it sometimes several times a day.
i've become numb to its problems, although i rarely need to relaunch
it.
On 13 Jan 2023 20:29:03 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
since Apple admitted wrong-doing
Apple did not admit wrongdoing in court, and was not found guilty by the
court.
Then why did Apple play the criminal fine as charged?
and apologized
Clearly you didn't read the actual apology. What do you *think* it said,
smart guy? ; )
The apology isn't important - what's important are the criminal charges
that Apple agreed to having committed.
What do you think those criminal charges were anyway?
Do you even know "smart guy" what those criminal charges were?
Except, due to a long-standing widespread bugs in macOS Bluetooth implementation that causes stutters and jerkiness of the cursor, I often
find myself keeping my Magic TrackPad plugged in most of the day just to maintain my sanity. I can only imagine how Magic Mouse users deal with
that issue.
On 13 Jan 2023 20:24:10 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
Yep, their official apology in this instance stated they apologized
for letting customers down
The apology was written by Apple and as such, is meaningless.
Smart guy.
On Fri, 13 Jan 2023 12:22:50 -0500, nospam wrote:
litigation is expensive (and has no upper limit) and many times, it's a
simple business decision to settle versus drag it out in court.
In other words, Apple knew the criminal evidence stacked up against them
was very strong. So strong that Apple knew they would have been convicted.
Except, due to a long-standing widespread bugs in macOS Bluetooth
implementation that causes stutters and jerkiness of the cursor, I often >> find myself keeping my Magic TrackPad plugged in most of the day just to >> maintain my sanity. I can only imagine how Magic Mouse users deal with
that issue.
i've never had that problem with either of my magic trackpads (old and
new versions).
Count yourself lucky. We have this cursor stuttering and key repeating/lagging issue with multiple wireless Magic TrackPads and Magic Keyboards at home connected to both a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro, and it's fucking maddening to deal with. We haven't been able to determine
whether it's an environmental issue or software issue. But since it
happens to both computers in the same room, I wonder if it's
environmental.
On 2023-01-17, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <k2mimeF2skvU8@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
Except, due to a long-standing widespread bugs in macOS Bluetooth
implementation that causes stutters and jerkiness of the cursor, I often >>> find myself keeping my Magic TrackPad plugged in most of the day just to >>> maintain my sanity. I can only imagine how Magic Mouse users deal with
that issue.
i've never had that problem with either of my magic trackpads (old and
new versions).
Count yourself lucky. We have this cursor stuttering and key repeating/lagging issue with multiple wireless Magic TrackPads and Magic Keyboards at home connected to both a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro, and it's fucking maddening to deal with. We haven't been able to determine
In article <k2mimeF2skvU8@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
Except, due to a long-standing widespread bugs in macOS Bluetooth
implementation that causes stutters and jerkiness of the cursor, I often
find myself keeping my Magic TrackPad plugged in most of the day just to
maintain my sanity. I can only imagine how Magic Mouse users deal with
that issue.
i've never had that problem with either of my magic trackpads (old and
new versions).
On 2023-01-17 11:25, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-01-17, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <k2mimeF2skvU8@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
Except, due to a long-standing widespread bugs in macOS Bluetooth
implementation that causes stutters and jerkiness of the cursor, I
often find myself keeping my Magic TrackPad plugged in most of the
day just to maintain my sanity. I can only imagine how Magic Mouse
users deal with that issue.
i've never had that problem with either of my magic trackpads (old
and new versions).
Count yourself lucky. We have this cursor stuttering and key
repeating/lagging issue with multiple wireless Magic TrackPads and
Magic Keyboards at home connected to both a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro,
and it's fucking maddening to deal with. We haven't been able to
determine
No issue with the keyboard here. The issue I had a few days ago with
the trackpad and keyboard BT connection has not repeated.
Trackpad: Assuming the original version:
Count yourself lucky. We have this cursor stuttering and key
repeating/lagging issue with multiple wireless Magic TrackPads and
Magic Keyboards at home connected to both a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro,
and it's fucking maddening to deal with. We haven't been able to
determine whether it's an environmental issue or software issue. But
since it happens to both computers in the same room, I wonder if it's
environmental.
environmental was my first thought. how close are any wifi routers,
other computers and any other devices that might emit rf, including microwave ovens, cordless phones, etc. (including from any neighbors
if they're close enough)?
Interference is my main suspect as well. Both of these computers are in
our home office, and our WiFi router sits in the office closet, around
10 feet away from the Mac Pro and 13 feet away from the MacBook Pro. The kitchen's far enough away for the microwave to be a likely cause (plus it happens when the microwave definitely isn't in use). No cordless phones
or other major RF appliances. Another thing is that while we definitely
had occasional problems previously, looking back they seemed to have intensified in both frequency and affect after upgrading our router to a Ubiquity Dream Machine which puts out a bit more power than a typical consumer radio. Unfortunately, I'd have to run a lengthy Ethernet cable
and buy a bigger switch for things that are connected directly to the
router in order to move it outside of the office, and that's not a good option at the moment. So we're probably just going to be stuck dealing
with the connectivity issues.
In article <k2o0f8F9m7cU3@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
Except, due to a long-standing widespread bugs in macOS Bluetooth
implementation that causes stutters and jerkiness of the cursor, I
often find myself keeping my Magic TrackPad plugged in most of the
day just to maintain my sanity. I can only imagine how Magic Mouse
users deal with that issue.
i've never had that problem with either of my magic trackpads (old
and new versions).
Count yourself lucky. We have this cursor stuttering and key
repeating/lagging issue with multiple wireless Magic TrackPads and
Magic Keyboards at home connected to both a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro,
and it's fucking maddening to deal with. We haven't been able to
determine whether it's an environmental issue or software issue. But
since it happens to both computers in the same room, I wonder if it's
environmental.
environmental was my first thought. how close are any wifi routers,
other computers and any other devices that might emit rf, including
microwave ovens, cordless phones, etc. (including from any neighbors
if they're close enough)?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
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