On 2023-03-25 08:18, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be arsed with that.

I was about to suggest: Trails. No account needed.
Max 5 recordings, so need to upload the track and delete once it's full.
(Or pay "rent" for unlimited recordings).

But: I don't see it in the App Store anymore... still works on my iPhone though.

Also have some paid for apps like MotionX and GPS Kit that I haven't
used in quite a while (UI's aren't great).

A quick look at the various apps and they all have some sort of "in app purchase" requirement - so you'll just have to install some and try and
see what works.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities?
I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings
like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be
arsed with that.

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On 3/25/2023 7:18 AM, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be arsed with that.

Gaia GPS.

<https://www.gaiagps.com/>

I've used the free version for years and think it's great. I plan hikes
on the desktop ahead of time and follow the route on the phone for
exercising and use it to record and track my hike. I also use it on the mountain bike. They save your routes on line for nothing. Great app

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Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25 08:18, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? >> I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings >> like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be
arsed with that.

I was about to suggest: Trails. No account needed.
Max 5 recordings, so need to upload the track and delete once it's full.
(Or pay "rent" for unlimited recordings).

But: I don't see it in the App Store anymore... still works on my iPhone though.

Does it? It doesn't for me. Every time I try to save a new a tail it pops
up saying that Trails Pro is not available and I can't progress further. I
can see my 71 saved tracks but no map information.

Also have some paid for apps like MotionX and GPS Kit that I haven't
used in quite a while (UI's aren't great).

A quick look at the various apps and they all have some sort of "in app purchase" requirement - so you'll just have to install some and try and
see what works.

That's why I'm asking for some recommendations. Narrow the field a bit.

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On 2023-03-25 09:34, Chris wrote:

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25 08:18, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? >>> I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I >>> can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings >>> like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be >>> arsed with that.

I was about to suggest: Trails. No account needed.
Max 5 recordings, so need to upload the track and delete once it's full.
(Or pay "rent" for unlimited recordings).

But: I don't see it in the App Store anymore... still works on my iPhone
though.

Does it? It doesn't for me. Every time I try to save a new a tail it pops
up saying that Trails Pro is not available and I can't progress further. I can see my 71 saved tracks but no map information.

Also have some paid for apps like MotionX and GPS Kit that I haven't
used in quite a while (UI's aren't great).

A quick look at the various apps and they all have some sort of "in app
purchase" requirement - so you'll just have to install some and try and
see what works.

That's why I'm asking for some recommendations. Narrow the field a bit.

I'm too lazy to do your homework, but I'll happily read about what
you've found!

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-03-25 09:46, sticks wrote:

On 3/25/2023 7:18 AM, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking
activities?
I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive
rankings
like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be
arsed with that.

Gaia GPS.

<https://www.gaiagps.com/>

I've used the free version for years and think it's great.  I plan hikes
on the desktop ahead of time and follow the route on the phone for
exercising and use it to record and track my hike.  I also use it on the mountain bike.  They save your routes on line for nothing.  Great app

Do you mean they save your planned route or they save your recorded
track? (or both).

IAC: I have a monster aversion to yet-another service that saves my
recorded data for me - at any price.

iPhones have oodles of memory to save tracks in, in turn this is easily uploaded to my computer when I'm done (via Airdrop, messages, mail,
Notes, Signal, OneDrive, etc. ...)

I have a few "GPS" apps that I can do this with (fewer delivery options however).

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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Chris wrote:

A quick look at the various apps and they all have some sort of "in app
purchase" requirement - so you'll just have to install some and try and
see what works.

That's why I'm asking for some recommendations. Narrow the field a bit.

Hi Chris,
I used to use my iPad for hikes because of the big screen and huge battery,
but then Android phones became phablets with huge batteries, so I haven't
used the iPad for hiking in years... but... I did for the longest time.

Looking in my iOS map folder (which I haven't opened up in years), I see:
TopoReader
TopoMaps
TopoMaps+
GoogleEarth
etc.

Hence, I can only offer the advice, if you need it, that the "hiking" apps
have the ability to save a breadcrumb trail on them which you can save as "tracks" and which, for some apps, give statistics such as elevation
profiles (which is important where I hike as nothing is flat) and time to distance metrics.

If you need me to, I can dig up the many threads where we discussed it.
<http://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.ipad>
<http://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone>

Offhand, I know that papermaps and avenza are both android:iOS cross
platform geopdf tracking apps where you can load in any geopdf into them,
and save a track onto them where you can get (for the USA) all the park
geopdfs from the cross platform registration free OuterSpatial program.

I forget where you live but if you're in the USA, OuterSpatial provides _hundreds_ of free park map geoPDFs for every single government park on
both platforms, Android & iOS (free, no ads, no login, etc., as always).

You will _never_ see me recommend any program that does any of that!

You can even make your own personal geopdfs of your area that you will be hiking, as I've done that myself for hiking in historical areas by loading
maps from the 1800s, but it's probably not for most people to do but it's relatively easy to do with _any_ map (e.g., an OSM map or even a google
map) but you have to understand how to create georeference points with the
QGIS or GDal type georeferencing programs (I use them only sporadically
but I wrote a few tutorials for georeferencing anything, even a photo):
<http://groups.google.com/g/sci.geo.satellite-nav>

As for your login requirement, smart. Very smart. I commend you. There's
almost never any reason for _any_ app to require an account (guess why they
do that?) so it's perfectly sensible and logical that you don't want one.

Let me know if you need details as there's probably a tutorial on each app
that I've written over the years that I can point you toward if you need
it. Some of the apps are Windows for _creating_ your own georeferenced maps
but most of what I covered above, from memory, is cross platform
iOS:Android.

EVERY app I recommend will always be free, ad free & registration free.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully try to flesh out hiking & tracking.

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Alan Browne wrote:

Do you mean they save your planned route or they save your recorded
track? (or both).

Alan Browne brings up a good point for Chris, who didn't mention "planned routes", where, if Chris needs the information, I wrote tutorials on how to save your _planned_ track which you draw on a program and save as a GPX or
KML (usually as a GPX) and then you load it into your display program for either a visual confirmation of whether you're on track, or even a verbal.

A visual confirmation can be obtained from almost any map program that
reads in georeferenced PDFs (aka geoPDFs), such as these two which work on
both Android and on iOS and which do not require registration or have ads.

*Avenza Maps* Offline Mapping by Avenza Systems Inc., 3 maps at a time
Free, ad free, 4.6 star, 72.6K reviews, 1M+ Downloads, no login required
<https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id388424049>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Avenza>
<https://www.avenza.com/avenza-maps/>

*Paper Maps* by Abbro Inc, unlimited maps
Free, ad free, 5K+ Downloads, no login required
<https://apps.apple.com/app/nextmap/id1147385120>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.abbro.androidmap>
<https://www.paper-maps.com/>

For "drawing a planned route" on a map, you can see Carlos' recent thread
on the Windows newsgroup (not archived, unfortunately) and Linux ng too.
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.misc>

Specifically this recent thread:
*Draw a route in a map* by Carlos E. R. on Mar 24, 2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.misc/c/c1wg92_DssM>

An example is you take _anything_ (even a photo!) but usually it's a PDF
of a park map or even a screenshot of the Google Maps roads around your
home, and then you georeference that PDF and then you draw a proposed
hike on that PDF and then you can track your hike in real time on that PDF.

I do that all the time, so if you need help, let me know, although the georeferencing part takes a bit of practice depending on how accurate
you want to make it as it basically assigns a geolocation to every pixel
on the document (which is why the document can be anything that you have).
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully expand upon drawing a planned route.

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On 2023-03-25 09:34, Chris wrote:

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25 08:18, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? >>> I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I >>> can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings >>> like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be >>> arsed with that.

I was about to suggest: Trails. No account needed.
Max 5 recordings, so need to upload the track and delete once it's full.
(Or pay "rent" for unlimited recordings).

But: I don't see it in the App Store anymore... still works on my iPhone
though.

Does it? It doesn't for me. Every time I try to save a new a tail it pops
up saying that Trails Pro is not available and I can't progress further. I can see my 71 saved tracks but no map information.

Also have some paid for apps like MotionX and GPS Kit that I haven't
used in quite a while (UI's aren't great).

A quick look at the various apps and they all have some sort of "in app
purchase" requirement - so you'll just have to install some and try and
see what works.

That's why I'm asking for some recommendations. Narrow the field a bit.

If you're into complex, you might try Sensorlog.

This is nerd city. Endless things you can do with it - which gives it a
steep learning curve if you're not into the fine details.

In the end you'd end up with a .csv or JSON file with the trail
recorded. Then you can see it in an app like Google Earth afterwards.
Not for the casual user.

Also - if you forget to stop the recording when you get off the trail it
will continue to record - and drain your battery too.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:

On 3/25/2023 7:18 AM, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? >> I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings >> like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be
arsed with that.

Gaia GPS.

<https://www.gaiagps.com/>

I've used the free version for years and think it's great. I plan hikes
on the desktop ahead of time and follow the route on the phone for
exercising and use it to record and track my hike. I also use it on the mountain bike. They save your routes on line for nothing. Great app

Requires an account sadly and most of the maps are US-only. Will keep it on
the list, however, thanks.

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On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 5:18:11 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be arsed with that.

I haven't used it in a long time but I have GPS Tracks check that out its pretty nice.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gps-tracks/id425589565

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Chris wrote:

Requires an account sadly and most of the maps are US-only. Will keep it on the list, however, thanks.

What country are you in, Chris?

I can look to see if that country has access to free georeferenced PDFs.

In the USA, OSM topo maps are vastly inferior to USGS topo geoPDF maps but
in your country, you may have the equivalent of the USGS geoPDFs with
<https://apps.apple.com/app/nextmap/id1147385120>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.Avenza>

I like Avenza better'n the papermaps app, but avenza is kind of sort of
limited to 3 maps at a time, which, if you think about it, is easy to circumvent by two simple methods - so that's why it's still on the list.
1. You can load and unload maps at will to keep it at three active maps
2. Or, you can combine maps (I do it all the time) to keep it at 3 maps

There are also pure trackers which will save your track to a file which you
can then upload into almost any app that handles such things (which should
be virtually every app that does mapping & routing).


That gpx track can either be saved ad hoc, while you're on the move, or,
you can _draw_ that track (see previous cites in this thread) on a PC.

Either way, you can even get verbal directions (e.g., "turn east 10 degrees
for 30 yards to get back to the planned route") at least on Android; but I don't know if that's on iOS as I haven't used iPads for hiking in years.

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On 2023-03-25, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking
activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but
am fine with paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and
statistics of journeys I can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not
interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

Apple's Fitness app does this with the Workout app on the Apple Watch:

<https://ibb.co/tQBzMw2>
<https://ibb.co/TPgzfn3>

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't
be arsed with that.

The WorkOutDoors app is *much* more configurable than Apple's apps if
that's your thing. No online account is required, and the App Privacy
section of the App Store listing says no data is collected:

<https://apps.apple.com/app/workoutdoors/id1241909999?ls=1>

The developer's privacy policy explicitly states that the app does
not collect any information about users of the app:

<http://www.workoutdoors.net/Privacy.html>

Looks like a nice app. I'm going to try it out for my next hike.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?


Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be arsed with that.

--
"Do not say, 'I'll pay you back for this wrong!' Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you." --Proverbs 20:22. Slammy Caturday with an 8 yrs. old security camera going bonker, 6th shot, etc.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

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On 2023-03-26, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

That's the reaction my wife had. We both use Apple's stuff and it's fine
unless you want a bunch of customization.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 2023-03-25 22:56, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-26, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

That's the reaction my wife had. We both use Apple's stuff and it's fine unless you want a bunch of customization.

I like to get my hiking track off of the phone and display it on Google
Earth. Can you do that with Apple's fitness app?

Indeed, for orienteering I can scan the map, load it into Google Earth,
and then "play back" the run in GE.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-03-26, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25 22:56, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-26, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

That's the reaction my wife had. We both use Apple's stuff and it's
fine unless you want a bunch of customization.

I like to get my hiking track off of the phone and display it on
Google Earth. Can you do that with Apple's fitness app?

Indeed, for orienteering I can scan the map, load it into Google
Earth, and then "play back" the run in GE.

I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.

As I said in another post, the WorkOutDoors app has way more
customization and functionality if that's what you're after, including exporting workouts as FIT, TCX or GPX files.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Nope. They don't record cycling/walking information on their own. They
need an app.

Although they do suggest apps and Komoot looked interesting. Requires an account, however.

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On 2023-03-26 11:00, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-26, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25 22:56, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-26, Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

That's the reaction my wife had. We both use Apple's stuff and it's
fine unless you want a bunch of customization.

I like to get my hiking track off of the phone and display it on
Google Earth. Can you do that with Apple's fitness app?

Indeed, for orienteering I can scan the map, load it into Google
Earth, and then "play back" the run in GE.

I wouldn't know, but I doubt it.

As I said in another post, the WorkOutDoors app has way more
customization and functionality if that's what you're after, including exporting workouts as FIT, TCX or GPX files.

Already noted - thx. I use Trails - which has disappeared from the App
Store (AFAICT).

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-03-26, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Nope. They don't record cycling/walking information on their own.
They need an app.

Hmm... My Fitness app has been recording my cycling and walking for
years now. What am I doing wrong? : )

Although they do suggest apps and Komoot looked interesting. Requires
an account, however.

It seems you completely ignored my initial reply in this thread because
I told you of an app that does what you want and requires no account
(and it also has a terrific privacy policy and gathers no data). Oh
well! : )

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 25. Mar 2023 at 14:18:09 CET, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities?

Maybe have a look at Open GPX Tracker.

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Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-26, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Nope. They don't record cycling/walking information on their own.
They need an app.

Hmm... My Fitness app has been recording my cycling and walking for
years now. What am I doing wrong? : )

Although they do suggest apps and Komoot looked interesting. Requires
an account, however.

It seems you completely ignored my initial reply in this thread because
I told you of an app that does what you want and requires no account
(and it also has a terrific privacy policy and gathers no data). Oh
well! : )

Turns out you're in my kf in this ng. That's why?

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Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Actually, thanks for the tip. I'd completely blanked the Fitness app. After some investigation it seems - please correct me if I'm wrong - most of the functionality in Fitness+ requires an Apple watch and/or a paid
subscription. £9.99pm plus the cost of a watch is way too much for my
needs.

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On 2023-03-27, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking
activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account,
but am fine with paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and
statistics of journeys I can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not
interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

Apple's Fitness app does this with the Workout app on the Apple
Watch:

<https://ibb.co/tQBzMw2> <https://ibb.co/TPgzfn3>

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 2023-03-27, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-26, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Nope. They don't record cycling/walking information on their own.
They need an app.

Hmm... My Fitness app has been recording my cycling and walking for
years now. What am I doing wrong? : )

Although they do suggest apps and Komoot looked interesting. Requires
an account, however.

It seems you completely ignored my initial reply in this thread because
I told you of an app that does what you want and requires no account
(and it also has a terrific privacy policy and gathers no data). Oh
well! : )

Turns out you're in my kf in this ng. That's why?

Your loss. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 2023-03-27, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Actually, thanks for the tip. I'd completely blanked the Fitness app.
After some investigation it seems - please correct me if I'm wrong -
most of the functionality in Fitness+ requires an Apple watch and/or a
paid subscription. £9.99pm plus the cost of a watch is way too much
for my needs.

Unfortunately, I never used the Fitness app before getting my first
Apple Watch, so someone else will hopefully have the answer to that
question.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve.
In other words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money.
Most people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.
--
David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>

Beyond Meat and other such vegetarian meat substitutes
represent the ultimate in ultra-processed foods. Real
meat is natural. Beyond Meat is definitely not.

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In article <tvt3ia$3d8i9$1@dont-email.me>, David E. Ross
<nobody@notme.invalid> wrote:

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve.
In other words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money.
Most people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

why is it that people bash products they've never used?

and if style is the goal, there are *many* other stylish watches, with
prices from less expensive to significantly more expensive.

so no, style is not why people buy an apple watch.

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On 3/27/2023 2:58 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve.
In other words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money.
Most people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

I was skeptical about the Apple Watch but I really do like mine.

It's a luxury item to be sure. I received a $300 Apple gift card which I
used to buy mine. I pair it with exercise equipment at the gym. Wish
that it supported ANT+ for heart rate monitor. The pulse-oximeter
function is pretty cool. The exercise monitor encourages you to
close the rings." It's nice to be able to do Apple Pay without pulling
out your iPhone.

The downside is that you can only go one day between charging it. If you
charge when you go to bed then you can't use it to monitor your sleep.

Another annoyance is that it frequently will think display "it looks
like you've taken a hard fall" and offer to cal 911, though I've never
taken a hard fall the times that it thinks I have. The one time I
crashed when skiing, it did not register "a hard fall."

Was it a waste of money? It depends on your view. To me, it was a
discretionary purchase that I enjoy. Some people enjoy going to
Disneyland at $300 a day and to me that would be a waste of money, but
it's how they choose to spend their money.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

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On 2023-03-27, sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

On 3/27/2023 2:58 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve. In other
words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money. Most
people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

I was skeptical about the Apple Watch but I really do like mine.

Too bad. The only reason you bought it was to be stylish. It's true.
David E. Ross said it.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-03-27, David E. Ross <nobody@notme.invalid> wrote:

On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve. In other
words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money. Most
people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

Obvious troll is obvious.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Actually, thanks for the tip. I'd completely blanked the Fitness app. After some investigation it seems - please correct me if I'm wrong - most of the functionality in Fitness+ requires an Apple watch and/or a paid subscription. £9.99pm plus the cost of a watch is way too much for my needs.

chris did you try the one I suggested? It maybe got buried in all the spam from the nym guy...

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In article <tvt6i2$3dr69$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

It's a luxury item to be sure.

the higher end models are a luxury item, in particular, the ceramic
model. the mainstream models are not.

I received a $300 Apple gift card which I
used to buy mine. I pair it with exercise equipment at the gym. Wish
that it supported ANT+ for heart rate monitor.

ant+ is dead (not that it was ever alive) and the watch has its own
heart rate monitor.

The pulse-oximeter
function is pretty cool. The exercise monitor encourages you to
close the rings." It's nice to be able to do Apple Pay without pulling
out your iPhone.

thereby negating all of your stories about not being able to use apple
pay due to a mask.

The downside is that you can only go one day between charging it.

closer to 2 days, and the ultra is even longer.

If you
charge when you go to bed then you can't use it to monitor your sleep.

except that many people do exactly that. charge it while showering in
the morning.

Another annoyance is that it frequently will think display "it looks
like you've taken a hard fall" and offer to cal 911, though I've never
taken a hard fall the times that it thinks I have.

then there's something wrong with yours, or you fall a lot and don't
remember. the latter would also explain a lot of your posts.

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On 2023-03-27, David E. Ross <nobody@notme.invalid> wrote:

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve.
In other words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money.
Most people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

Not even close. We have one iPhone and run two apple watches off of it.
With the iPhone somewhere across the country, I can still make phone calls, check messages, etc.. I usually use a iPad to do that and use the Apple
Watch for timers and alarms, but the capability is there if I need it.
If for no other reason, I'm old and having the capability to call 911 from
my wrist gives me peace of mind. The Apple Watch has saved lives and
located missing persons.
The iPhone acts as a server to my watch, wherever it may be.

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On 28 Mar 2023, Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> posted some
news <news:k8f5rqF3oebU1@mid.individual.net>:

Not even close. We have one iPhone and run two apple watches off of it.
With the iPhone somewhere across the country, I can still make phone calls, check messages, etc.. I usually use a iPad to do that and use the Apple
Watch for timers and alarms, but the capability is there if I need it.
If for no other reason, I'm old and having the capability to call 911 from
my wrist gives me peace of mind. The Apple Watch has saved lives and
located missing persons.
The iPhone acts as a server to my watch, wherever it may be.

Are you really that afraid you allow yourself to be logged into an Internet server every second of the day expecting that overseas server to protect
you?

Why is it only Apple owners quaking in fear of every danger that they can imagine (and that Apple instills upon them by inserting into their brain
stem that only Apple can protect them from their own unreasonable fear)?

It's a worthwhile question to ask why you are so afraid when nobody else is
but you?

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On 27 Mar 2023, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad:

Apple doesn't confirm or deny rumors - it is simply indifferent to them.

What's important was that I waited for you to prove, beyond doubt, after
many posts, that you denied what you didn't even know about, many times.

It's what you iKooks do, and the sooner you leave this group, the better.

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Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-27, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking
activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account,
but am fine with paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and
statistics of journeys I can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not
interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

Apple's Fitness app does this with the Workout app on the Apple
Watch:

<https://ibb.co/tQBzMw2> <https://ibb.co/TPgzfn3>

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

A phone on its own works very well for "this sort of thing" as I was able
to do with the Trails app before it was discontinued.

A Watch is fine for those who want one.

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On 2023-03-28, rdb <rdb@usa.usa> wrote:

On 28 Mar 2023, Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> posted some news <news:k8f5rqF3oebU1@mid.individual.net>:

Not even close. We have one iPhone and run two apple watches off of it.
With the iPhone somewhere across the country, I can still make phone calls, >> check messages, etc.. I usually use a iPad to do that and use the Apple
Watch for timers and alarms, but the capability is there if I need it.
If for no other reason, I'm old and having the capability to call 911 from >> my wrist gives me peace of mind. The Apple Watch has saved lives and
located missing persons.
The iPhone acts as a server to my watch, wherever it may be.

Are you really that afraid you allow yourself to be logged into an Internet server every second of the day expecting that overseas server to protect
you?

Why is it only Apple owners quaking in fear of every danger that they can imagine (and that Apple instills upon them by inserting into their brain
stem that only Apple can protect them from their own unreasonable fear)?

It's a worthwhile question to ask why you are so afraid when nobody else is but you?

Dude! You need some sleep. Nothing you said has any relation to anything
I said. If you think it does, you need help.
Oh, and if you're over 75 and don't want the convenience of a "wrist
helper", perhaps when you croak, society will be notified by the foul
smell, emanating from wherever you drop.
I'm sorry that you promote junk as a computing choice. You should be
too. What 'junk of choice' do you prefer?

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On 28 Mar 2023, Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> posted some
news <news:k8ff6gF3s36U2@mid.individual.net>:

What 'junk of choice' do you prefer?

Dude. If you need an Apple watch to save you, at least pray to God first.
Being logged into Apple every second of your life is a stupidly bad idea. Besides, Apple isn't going to save you even though you're hoping it will.

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On 2023-03-28, rdb <rdb@usa.usa> wrote:

Dude. If you need an Apple watch to save you, at least pray to God first. Being logged into Apple every second of your life is a stupidly bad idea. Besides, Apple isn't going to save you even though you're hoping it will

Again! Why?
If you have a internet phone or other internet device from any
manufacturer, you're logged in to the evil corporations that we all hear
about, or your equipment doesn't work at all.
Reject technology and walk away. Drop the mic, and don't come back.
That'll show 'em!

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On 28 Mar 2023, Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> posted some
news <news:k8fu4rF72lpU1@mid.individual.net>:

Dude. If you need an Apple watch to save you, at least pray to God first.
Being logged into Apple every second of your life is a stupidly bad idea.
Besides, Apple isn't going to save you even though you're hoping it will

Again! Why?
If you have a internet phone or other internet device from any
manufacturer, you're logged in to the evil corporations that we all hear about, or your equipment doesn't work at all.
Reject technology and walk away. Drop the mic, and don't come back.
That'll show 'em!

I'm just saying not to do stupid things just because you fear your life.

You can't use a phone as a phone without being "connected" to the carrier.
And having a data connection, if and when needed, is also a good thing.

But there's no reason to have your Wi-Fi and GPS on every second of the day just because you're afraid you're going to have a stroke at any moment.

The Apple watch barely does anything without being logged into a server.
Being logged into servers every second of your life is a stupidly bad idea.

I don't think you realize that you traded your life for fear of your life.

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On 2023-03-28, Nil <rednoise9@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:

On 27 Mar 2023, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad:

Apple doesn't confirm or deny rumors - it is simply indifferent to
them.

What's important was that I waited for you to prove, beyond doubt,
after many posts, that you denied what you didn't even know about,
many times.

Rumors aren't facts, dummy.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 2023-03-28, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-27, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-25, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking
activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account,
but am fine with paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and
statistics of journeys I can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not
interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

Apple's Fitness app does this with the Workout app on the Apple
Watch:

<https://ibb.co/tQBzMw2> <https://ibb.co/TPgzfn3>

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

A phone on its own works very well for "this sort of thing" as I was
able to do with the Trails app before it was discontinued.

Yes, and there are plenty of other apps that track walking.

A Watch is fine for those who want one.

Yep! Love mine.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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On 28 Mar 2023, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in misc.phone.mobile.iphone:

Rumors aren't facts, dummy.

It's obvious you never read the news and you didn't know about it.
I waited and waited and waited and I gave you every chance to say it.

You didn't even know about it and you still denied it.
Your ONLY reason for denying it is because you don't like it.

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On 2023-03-28 13:50, Alan Browne wrote:

On 2023-03-27 17:58, David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve.
In other words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money.
Most people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

Outdoor temperature display

-clarification: this is based on a local weather station.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-03-27 18:49, sms wrote:

The downside is that you can only go one day between charging it. If you charge when you go to bed then you can't use it to monitor your sleep.

If I strap it on at 7:00 in the morning, it easily goes to midnight of
the next day. Occasionally 3 days.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-03-27 17:58, David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve.
In other words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money.
Most people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

Beg to differ.

I use my Watch as a tool daily.

It's great to check messages at a glance - or send replies or new
messages using voice

Reminders
Verbal command to run a quick timer: "Set a timer to call Bob in 7 minutes". Likewise for reminders: "Take George to the dentist on Thursday at
ten-thirty"
... or a calendar event.

It has a compass built in (accuracy ±20° is good enough for many things) Outdoor temperature display

Many watch faces customized as I want them - just swipe to get the one
needed for the occasion.

If my phone is in another room I can take calls on it (I don't like
this, but it saves the day from time to time - and easily hands off back
to the phone once you find it).

"Find My" functions:
- locate my iPhone and other devices/tags/pods

- Shazam a song

- useful for payments in the checkout line - though not all my loyalty
cards are supported, alas.

... and that is only tickling the surface.

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally go 3
full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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Connor Shannon <cshannon1898@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:58:29 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Is iOS' Health and Fitness apps not good enough?

Actually, thanks for the tip. I'd completely blanked the Fitness app. After >> some investigation it seems - please correct me if I'm wrong - most of the >> functionality in Fitness+ requires an Apple watch and/or a paid
subscription. £9.99pm plus the cost of a watch is way too much for my
needs.

chris did you try the one I suggested? It maybe got buried in all the
spam from the nym guy...

I did, but then got distracted. Thanks for the poke. Looks ideal!

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On 2023-03-28, Nil <rednoise9@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:

On 28 Mar 2023, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in misc.phone.mobile.iphone:

Rumors aren't facts, dummy.

It's obvious you never read the news

Rumors aren't news either, dummy.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-27 17:58, David E. Ross wrote:

On 3/27/2023 9:27 AM, Jolly Roger wrote:

I don't have an Apple Watch.

Shame, it's great for this sort of thing. Recommended.

The Apple watch is a solution seeking a problem to solve. In other
words, the Apple watch is a great way to waste your money. Most
people who buy it are doing only so that they can look stylish.

Beg to differ.

I use my Watch as a tool daily.

It's great to check messages at a glance - or send replies or new
messages using voice

Reminders Verbal command to run a quick timer: "Set a timer to call
Bob in 7 minutes". Likewise for reminders: "Take George to the
dentist on Thursday at ten-thirty" ... or a calendar event.

It has a compass built in (accuracy ±20° is good enough for many
things) Outdoor temperature display

Many watch faces customized as I want them - just swipe to get the one
needed for the occasion.

If my phone is in another room I can take calls on it (I don't like
this, but it saves the day from time to time - and easily hands off
back to the phone once you find it).

"Find My" functions: - locate my iPhone and other devices/tags/pods

- Shazam a song

- useful for payments in the checkout line - though not all my loyalty
cards are supported, alas.

... and that is only tickling the surface.

Same here. I supposed we don't exist in their bizarre world though.

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally go 3
full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never worry
about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally go 3
full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally go
3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never
worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally go
3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never
worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night. Occasionally, if, when I go to bed on the 2nd night
I see it has 45% or more charge left, I'll even try for the next evening
"3rd day".

This is hit or miss as it depends on how I used the watch for the past
40 or so hours v. the next 24 hours.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally
go 3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never
worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night.

What's the point in skipping nights?

Occasionally, if, when I go to bed on the 2nd night I see it has 45%
or more charge left, I'll even try for the next evening "3rd day".

Letting a lithium ion battery drain significantly is generally worse for overall longevity than keeping it topped off.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-28 17:28, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally
go 3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never
worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night.

What's the point in skipping nights?

Keeps it away from 100% charge half the time.

Occasionally, if, when I go to bed on the 2nd night I see it has 45%
or more charge left, I'll even try for the next evening "3rd day".

Letting a lithium ion battery drain significantly is generally worse for overall longevity than keeping it topped off.

Agree. Ideally it would go down to 20% and stop charging at 80%. That
would be best for the life of the batt.

But occasionally dipping to 10% or so won't affect it that much.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 17:28, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will occasionally >>>>>>> go 3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I never >>>>>> worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night.

What's the point in skipping nights?

Keeps it away from 100% charge half the time.

Occasionally, if, when I go to bed on the 2nd night I see it has 45%
or more charge left, I'll even try for the next evening "3rd day".

Letting a lithium ion battery drain significantly is generally worse for
overall longevity than keeping it topped off.

Agree. Ideally it would go down to 20% and stop charging at 80%. That
would be best for the life of the batt.

I really don't get this attitude. By doing this you're effectively reduce battery capacity by 40% in something that already doesn't have a lot.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 17:28, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will
occasionally go 3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I
never worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night.

What's the point in skipping nights?

Keeps it away from 100% charge half the time.

I think you've fallen for hype. There's no reason to keep it from 100%,
and allowing it to drain repeatedly the way you are doing is actually
worse for the battery than keeping it topped off.

Occasionally, if, when I go to bed on the 2nd night I see it has 45%
or more charge left, I'll even try for the next evening "3rd day".

Letting a lithium ion battery drain significantly is generally worse
for overall longevity than keeping it topped off.

Agree. Ideally it would go down to 20% and stop charging at 80%.
That would be best for the life of the batt.

But occasionally dipping to 10% or so won't affect it that much.

Allowing it to drain to 10-20% repeatedly puts much more stress on the
battery than keeping it topped off.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 28 Mar 2023, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in misc.phone.mobile.iphone:

Rumors aren't facts, dummy.

It's obvious you never read the news

Rumors aren't news either, dummy.

What matters is you denied everything you don't like about Apple without
you knowing a single thing about what it was that you denied about Apple.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-28, Nil <rednoise9@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote:

On 28 Mar 2023, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in misc.phone.mobile.iphone:

Rumors aren't facts, dummy.

It's obvious you never read the news

Rumors aren't news either, dummy.

What matters is rumors aren't facts or news.

Yep.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-28 18:10, Chris wrote:

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Agree. Ideally it would go down to 20% and stop charging at 80%. That
would be best for the life of the batt.

I really don't get this attitude. By doing this you're effectively reduce battery capacity by 40% in something that already doesn't have a lot.

It's not an "attitude". It's the reality of Li-ion battery chemistry.

As pointed out several times, my watch easily goes 2 "days" per charge.

Li-ion batteries "age" the most above 80% charge and below 20% charge.

A the end of a day (ie: take Watch off of the charger at about 07:00,
take it off my wrist at about 23:00), the charge level is about 75%.

Then the next evening at 23:00, it is about 35 .. 45%. Barely enough to
go one more day - so I usually charge it overnight.

Thus: for one daily cycle the battery is in that zone where it ages the
least.

That said, this Watch is an 18month old model. By the time the battery
is an issue, I'll be able to buy a battery for it and replace it.
Possibly at the expense of water resistance.

I don't know how many years away that is. 5? 7? TBD. Then: will it
work with whatever iPhone I have at that time? I better not get rid of
my iPhone 11 ...

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

In article <xjMUL.230115$jiuc.107416@fx44.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

And no. 100% charge is not good for Li-ion. Why Apple have their
"smarts" to charge it to 80% ... leave it there, then top it to 100% in
the time before one typically takes it off the charger. (iphones anyway
- not sure about the Watch).

optimized battery charging is also available on the watch.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-28 18:56, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 17:28, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will
occasionally go 3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00).

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I
never worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night.

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night.

What's the point in skipping nights?

Keeps it away from 100% charge half the time.

I think you've fallen for hype. There's no reason to keep it from 100%,
and allowing it to drain repeatedly the way you are doing is actually
worse for the battery than keeping it topped off.

Not hype. Li-ion has well known aging issues. The "long life" range is
batts kept between 20 .. 80%.

But occasionally dipping to 10% or so won't affect it that much.

Allowing it to drain to 10-20% repeatedly puts much more stress on the battery than keeping it topped off.

Occasionally << repeatedly. This happens maybe once per month.

And no. 100% charge is not good for Li-ion. Why Apple have their
"smarts" to charge it to 80% ... leave it there, then top it to 100% in
the time before one typically takes it off the charger. (iphones anyway
- not sure about the Watch).


--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 18:56, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 17:28, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 16:25, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-28 15:57, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-28, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Downsides: need to charge every other night (it will
occasionally go 3 full days, but rarely makes it past 21:00). >>>>>>>>

I just throw mine on the charger when I hop in the shower. I
never worry about the battery, and wear it every day and night. >>>>>>>

I dislike wearing watches while sleeping.

Then I'd just charge it each night.

But you do you!

Every other night.

What's the point in skipping nights?

Keeps it away from 100% charge half the time.

I think you've fallen for hype. There's no reason to keep it from
100%, and allowing it to drain repeatedly the way you are doing is
actually worse for the battery than keeping it topped off.

Not hype. Li-ion has well known aging issues.

There is no evidence that charging it fully (especially with Optimized Charging) significantly reduces the overall lifespan. You've fallen for
hype.

Allowing it to drain to 10-20% repeatedly puts much more stress on
the battery than keeping it topped off.

Occasionally << repeatedly. This happens maybe once per month.

And no. 100% charge is not good for Li-ion. Why Apple have their
"smarts" to charge it to 80% ... leave it there, then top it to 100%
in the time before one typically takes it off the charger. (iphones
anyway - not sure about the Watch).

It's called Optimized Charging, and you have modified your own behavior
rather than allowing it to do its thing. You've fallen for hype that has convinced you that you need to babysit your battery. The truth is you
won't see a significant difference in the overall lifespan of the
battery.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-29 12:46, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

There is no evidence that charging it fully (especially with Optimized Charging) significantly reduces the overall lifespan. You've fallen for
hype.

Chemistry ≠ hype.

Allowing it to drain to 10-20% repeatedly puts much more stress on
the battery than keeping it topped off.

Occasionally << repeatedly. This happens maybe once per month.

And no. 100% charge is not good for Li-ion. Why Apple have their
"smarts" to charge it to 80% ... leave it there, then top it to 100%
in the time before one typically takes it off the charger. (iphones
anyway - not sure about the Watch).

It's called Optimized Charging, and you have modified your own behavior rather than allowing it to do its thing. You've fallen for hype that has convinced you that you need to babysit your battery. The truth is you
won't see a significant difference in the overall lifespan of the
battery.

Not at all. My "use cycle" just fits the way I do it and avoids full
charge half of the time. A good thing. In a few years I might have to
do a re-charge every day... to be seen.

It's not hype. Li-ion ages faster under 20% and over 80% charge. So
even if the optimized charging is better than nothing, my scheme is
better still.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-29 12:46, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

There is no evidence that charging it fully (especially with
Optimized Charging) significantly reduces the overall lifespan.
You've fallen for hype.

Chemistry ≠ hype.

The hype is that you think this will significantly change the outcome.

Allowing it to drain to 10-20% repeatedly puts much more stress on
the battery than keeping it topped off.

Occasionally << repeatedly. This happens maybe once per month.

And no. 100% charge is not good for Li-ion. Why Apple have their
"smarts" to charge it to 80% ... leave it there, then top it to 100%
in the time before one typically takes it off the charger. (iphones
anyway - not sure about the Watch).

It's called Optimized Charging, and you have modified your own
behavior rather than allowing it to do its thing. You've fallen for
hype that has convinced you that you need to babysit your battery.
The truth is you won't see a significant difference in the overall
lifespan of the battery.

Not at all.

Yes, at all. There's no evidence you will see any significant or
noticeable difference in longevity in the end.

My "use cycle" just fits the way I do it

In reality, you've modified your behavior to the hype you've fallen for,
for no actual gain.

charge half of the time. A good thing. In a few years I might have
to do a re-charge every day... to be seen.

In a few years you would have to do that anyway. Batteries degrade over
time no matter what you do, and there's no evidence your behavior
modification will result in any significant lengthening of overall
lifespan.

It's not hype.

It absolutely is if you think this will have any noticeable effect in
the long run.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-29 15:48, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-29 12:46, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

There is no evidence that charging it fully (especially with
Optimized Charging) significantly reduces the overall lifespan.
You've fallen for hype.

Chemistry ≠ hype.

The hype is that you think this will significantly change the outcome.

Depends on "significantly". But the fact remains, the more often the
batt is above 80% the less life, overall it will have.

This would bother me less if the battery was trivially changeable, but
it isn't.

It's called Optimized Charging, and you have modified your own
behavior rather than allowing it to do its thing. You've fallen for
hype that has convinced you that you need to babysit your battery.
The truth is you won't see a significant difference in the overall
lifespan of the battery.

Not at all.

Yes, at all. There's no evidence you will see any significant or
noticeable difference in longevity in the end.

Nonsense - Li-ion has a well know "con" in the charge regime - charging
over 80% is part of that. Chemistry.

My "use cycle" just fits the way I do it

In reality, you've modified your behavior to the hype you've fallen for,
for no actual gain.

charge half of the time. A good thing. In a few years I might have
to do a re-charge every day... to be seen.

In a few years you would have to do that anyway. Batteries degrade over
time no matter what you do, and there's no evidence your behavior modification will result in any significant lengthening of overall
lifespan.

Since it cycles every 48 hours, that is plenty of opportunity for it to
have an effect. Chemistry.

It's not hype.

It absolutely is if you think this will have any noticeable effect in
the long run.

It will be - experience (work) shows it to be so.

And, in any case, since it fits my "use cycle" at present, there is no
need to change my routine. Why you get your knickers in a twist over it
could be amusing if I took the time to be amused over it.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-29 15:48, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

On 2023-03-29 12:46, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

There is no evidence that charging it fully (especially with
Optimized Charging) significantly reduces the overall lifespan.
You've fallen for hype.

Chemistry ≠ hype.

The hype is that you think this will significantly change the
outcome.

Depends on "significantly".

The word has a clear definition.

But the fact remains, the more often the batt is above 80% the less
life, overall it will have.

The amount of degradation caused by charging over 80% is arguable.
Meanwhile, the more often a battery is allowed to drain significantly
and recharge, the more charge cycles are used and the less life it will
have, and that reduction is more significant than keeping it charged, especially with Optimized Charging. Sorry if you dislike this.

This would bother me less if the battery was trivially changeable, but
it isn't.

I'm betting most people don't babysit their batteries and use their
Watches for several years before upgrading to a newer device rather than needing to replace the battery. That's certainly been the case for most
of the people I know and support with Watches through the years. Battery babysitting is a waste of time.

It's called Optimized Charging, and you have modified your own
behavior rather than allowing it to do its thing. You've fallen for
hype that has convinced you that you need to babysit your battery.
The truth is you won't see a significant difference in the overall
lifespan of the battery.

Not at all.

Yes, at all. There's no evidence you will see any significant or
noticeable difference in longevity in the end.

Nonsense

Nope, it's true.

Li-ion has a well know "con" in the charge regime - charging over 80%
is part of that. Chemistry.

Allowing a battery to drain and recharging repeatedly causes more damage
than keeping the battery topped off. Chemistry.

My "use cycle" just fits the way I do it

In reality, you've modified your behavior to the hype you've fallen
for, for no actual gain.

charge half of the time. A good thing.

Drain significantly half the time. A bad thing.

In a few years I might have to do a re-charge every day... to be
seen.

In a few years you would have to do that anyway. Batteries degrade
over time no matter what you do, and there's no evidence your
behavior modification will result in any significant lengthening of
overall lifespan.

Since it cycles every 48 hours, that is plenty of opportunity for it
to have an effect. Chemistry.

Cycling needlessly ages the battery faster than avoiding cycling.
Chemistry.

It's not hype.

It absolutely is if you think this will have any noticeable effect in
the long run.

It will be - experience (work) shows it to be so.

Nah. I've *never* babysat my battery through multiple Watch models and
have *never* had to replace a battery before 4-6 years. According to you
I guess I must be doing something wrong...

And, in any case, since it fits my "use cycle" at present, there is no
need to change my routine. Why you get your knickers in a twist over
it could be amusing if I took the time to be amused over it.

I'm not upset at all. It's just clear you've fallen for hype and refuse
to acknowledge it. As I said, you do you.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-03-29 18:33, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2023-03-29, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

I've *never* babysat my battery through multiple Watch models and

have *never* had to replace a battery before 4-6 years. According to you
I guess I must be doing something wrong...

Everyone has a use case - as I've pointed out, my Watch use case happens
to be a semi-nice fit with the actual issues of Li-ion chemistry. And
again, if the battery could be easily replaced: no big deal. But it isn't.

And, in any case, since it fits my "use cycle" at present, there is no
need to change my routine. Why you get your knickers in a twist over
it could be amusing if I took the time to be amused over it.

I'm not upset at all. It's just clear you've fallen for hype and refuse
to acknowledge it. As I said, you do you.

Chemistry is not hype. And yeah, I will definitely do as I like.

Anyway, do have the last word. I believe that is your real goal.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be arsed with that.

Quick follow-up.

Thanks all for the suggestions which I tried many of. Unfortunately, pretty much all required an account to be set up, some needed an Apple watch and others just weren't what I was after.

There was one, however, that ticked all the boxes. Many thanks to Conor for suggesting GPS Tracks. This is going to be my app of preference and may
even pay for the pro version to show support for it.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-04-02 08:05, Chris wrote:

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

What apps do people recommend for tracking cycling and walking activities? >> I'd much prefer one that doesn't require an account, but am fine with
paying. Doesn't need anything fancy just gps and statistics of journeys I
can save; distance, avg speed, etc. Not interested in competitive rankings >> like in Strava.

I used to use Trails Pro but that died about a year ago.

All Trails Pro looks very similar except it requires an account. Can't be
arsed with that.

Quick follow-up.

Thanks all for the suggestions which I tried many of. Unfortunately, pretty much all required an account to be set up, some needed an Apple watch and others just weren't what I was after.

There was one, however, that ticked all the boxes. Many thanks to Conor for suggesting GPS Tracks. This is going to be my app of preference and may
even pay for the pro version to show support for it.

I'll check it out too as Trails seems to no longer exist.

Thanks.


--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Alan Browne wrote:

Thanks all for the suggestions which I tried many of. Unfortunately, pretty >> much all required an account to be set up, some needed an Apple watch and
others just weren't what I was after.

There was one, however, that ticked all the boxes. Many thanks to Conor for >> suggesting GPS Tracks. This is going to be my app of preference and may
even pay for the pro version to show support for it.

I'll check it out too as Trails seems to no longer exist.

Thank you Chris for that followup because your needs, wants and desires are
all normal in that you shouldn't have to create an account just to track
where you've been (and especially when you're tracking where you've been).

GPS Tracks <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gps-tracks/id425589565>

Here's a blog from a photographer who highly recommends GPX tracks:
<https://gregbenzphotography.com/photography-tips/gps-tracks-iphone-navigation-for-photographers/>

As for checking the boxes, that's also important, where the apps I
suggested also checked these boxes - but it's up to personal preference.
[x] free
[x] ad free
[x] spyware free
[x] works offline
[x] no account required
[x] exports files in a usable format (e.g., gpx or kml)
[x] optionally compares things such as elevation & speed profiles
etc.

Good luck with GPS Tracks and thank you for posting your summary followup.

To further always be purposefully helpful to you and others in terms of providing usable clickable links, here are two video reviews of GPS Tracks
<https://youtu.be/kfgvXjz3Ysg?t=12> This is a simpler quicker review
<https://youtu.be/cQ-leJtiRKI?t=142> This is a longer more detailed review
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to faithfully provide links to GPS Tracks reviews.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sunday, April 2, 2023 at 5:05:47 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:

Quick follow-up.

Thanks all for the suggestions which I tried many of. Unfortunately, pretty much all required an account to be set up, some needed an Apple watch and others just weren't what I was after.

There was one, however, that ticked all the boxes. Many thanks to Conor for suggesting GPS Tracks. This is going to be my app of preference and may
even pay for the pro version to show support for it.

Sorry I haven't been here for a while so I just saw your msg, glad my idea helped you!

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