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  • Patient asks surgeon to stop the surgery

    From Mariem Baccari@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 4 07:31:14 2022
    I was wondering if someone was getting surgery and they wake up during
    the operation. Are the surgeons compelled by law to stop the surgery if
    asked to ?

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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to Mariem Baccari on Tue Oct 4 09:22:00 2022
    "Mariem Baccari" wrote in message news:thh4to$12kq$1@gioia.aioe.org...

    I was wondering if someone was getting surgery and they wake up during the >operation. Are the surgeons compelled by law to stop the surgery if asked
    to ?

    That would probably depend on several factors including why the person is
    being operated on (is it emergency surgery to save the person's life?), is
    the person actually fully awake and able to make decisions, the age of the person, the mental state of the person, etc. I would think in most cases if the person wakes up during surgery, the team will assume the patient is delerious and just put them back under.

    --

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  • From Barry Gold@21:1/5 to Mariem Baccari on Tue Oct 4 21:27:32 2022
    On 10/4/2022 7:31 AM, Mariem Baccari wrote:
    I was wondering if someone was getting surgery and they wake up during
    the operation. Are the surgeons compelled by law to stop the surgery if
    asked to ?

    An interesting problem. I think the primary question the surgeon(s)
    would consider is whether the awake person actually understands what is
    going on. I think a few "are you really awake" questions might be in order.

    Some examples:
    What is your name?
    What day is today?
    How old are you?
    Who is President of the United States (or equivalent in other countries)

    Because somebody can be "awake" enough to talk but not awake enough to understand what is going on and why.

    I have never woken up during surgery, but I can recall two or three
    occasions when I woke up during a colonoscopy and asked for more pain
    meds. About 30 seconds later I was "out" again.

    But colonoscopies used to be done under sedation rather than full
    anesthesia, so it doesn't take a lot to wake you up. (I suspect it was
    the gastroenterologist pumping air into my colon.) Nowadays they are
    usually done using propofol, which induces a deeper level of
    unconsciousness and is often used for actual surgeries if the patient
    does not need to be under for "very long". Propofol wears off very
    quickly, and would have to be renewed if the procedure is going to last
    more than 5 minutes or so.

    --
    I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to Barry Gold on Wed Oct 5 07:11:15 2022
    "Barry Gold" wrote in message news:thi838$2ocli$1@dont-email.me...

    On 10/4/2022 7:31 AM, Mariem Baccari wrote:
    I was wondering if someone was getting surgery and they wake up during
    the operation. Are the surgeons compelled by law to stop the surgery if
    asked to ?

    An interesting problem. I think the primary question the surgeon(s) would >consider is whether the awake person actually understands what is going on.
    I think a few "are you really awake" questions might be in order.

    Some examples:
    What is your name?
    What day is today?
    How old are you?
    Who is President of the United States (or equivalent in other countries)

    Because somebody can be "awake" enough to talk but not awake enough to >understand what is going on and why.

    I have never woken up during surgery, but I can recall two or three
    occasions when I woke up during a colonoscopy and asked for more pain meds. >About 30 seconds later I was "out" again.

    But colonoscopies used to be done under sedation rather than full
    anesthesia, so it doesn't take a lot to wake you up. (I suspect it was the >gastroenterologist pumping air into my colon.) Nowadays they are usually
    done using propofol, which induces a deeper level of unconsciousness and is >often used for actual surgeries if the patient does not need to be under
    for "very long". Propofol wears off very quickly, and would have to be >renewed if the procedure is going to last more than 5 minutes or so.


    Remember - in this example the patient or a family member has presumably already given consent for the surgery. So if the patient somehow comes out
    of sedation and randomly says "stop the surgery", I think it would be
    assumed the person is delirious or not thinking clearly. It's also pretty standard that people who have been given sedation are often told not to make any major decisions or sign any contracts or agreements until the sedation wears off. So even asking for their name and who the president is, etc.,
    might not be sufficient to establish mental clarity. A lot would also
    depend on the purpose of the surgery (example: are they saving the patient's life after some emergency) and also where they are at in the surgery. They could be at a point where they are past the point where they can just stop
    the procedure.

    Regarding colonoscopies, I recently had one done with propofol and I went
    out instantly and never felt a thing. But like you, I had a case some 20
    years ago where I woke during the procedure and twice felt the prick of the surgeon removing polyps. It was painful but quick and I wasn't awake enough
    or didn't know enough to ask for more sedation. It was my first colonoscopy and I may have thought this is just the way it goes. I almost thought I had imagined it until the gastroenterologist told me afterward that he had
    removed two polyps

    --

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