On 6/4/2022 4:43 PM, RichD wrote:

Yesterday I saw a person pushing a bicycle down the
street, missing the front wheel.

Suspicious, no? Because owners commonly (carelessly)
lock their bikes to a rack, through the wheel, not frame.
A thief can easily remove the wheel.

Now, does a cop have probable cause to contact him?
It seems pointless - he can easily claim he's a victim
of theft, or the wheel was damaged, and he removed it himself.

So with nothing to gain, does the cop still have cause?
Especially if we take "probable" literally -

--
Rich

Probable cause is the standard for detention, arrest, search warrant etc.

Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed.
The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a
crime has most likely been committed.

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Yesterday I saw a person pushing a bicycle down the
street, missing the front wheel.

Suspicious, no? Because owners commonly (carelessly)
lock their bikes to a rack, through the wheel, not frame.
A thief can easily remove the wheel.

Now, does a cop have probable cause to contact him?
It seems pointless - he can easily claim he's a victim
of theft, or the wheel was damaged, and he removed it himself.

So with nothing to gain, does the cop still have cause?
Especially if we take "probable" literally -

--
Rich

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On June 4, Roy wrote:

Yesterday I saw a person pushing a bicycle down the
street, missing the front wheel.
Suspicious, no? Because owners commonly (carelessly)
lock their bikes to a rack, through the wheel, not frame.
A thief can easily remove the wheel.
Now, does a cop have probable cause to contact him?
It seems pointless - he can easily claim he's a victim
of theft, or the wheel was damaged, and he removed it himself.
So with nothing to gain, does the cop still have cause?

Probable cause is the standard for detention, arrest, search warrant etc. Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed.
The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a crime has most likely been committed.

So the situation described constitutes reasonable suspicion?
I don't see what might be gained;
"So what's up with the bike?"
"The wheel was stolen, I'm heading to a bike shop for a replacement."

What can the cop do?

--
Rich

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On 6/8/2022 4:40 PM, RichD wrote:

On June 4, Roy wrote:

Yesterday I saw a person pushing a bicycle down the
street, missing the front wheel.
Suspicious, no? Because owners commonly (carelessly)
lock their bikes to a rack, through the wheel, not frame.
A thief can easily remove the wheel.
Now, does a cop have probable cause to contact him?
It seems pointless - he can easily claim he's a victim
of theft, or the wheel was damaged, and he removed it himself.
So with nothing to gain, does the cop still have cause?

Probable cause is the standard for detention, arrest, search warrant etc.
Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of
reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed.
The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a
crime has most likely been committed.

So the situation described constitutes reasonable suspicion?
I don't see what might be gained;
"So what's up with the bike?"
"The wheel was stolen, I'm heading to a bike shop for a replacement."

What can the cop do?

--
Rich

I would think you need something other than someone wheeling the bike
without the wheel.

"So what's up with the bike?"
"I don't want to talk to you. I invoke my right to silence. Are you
detaining me, or am I free to go?"

Now the cop can't purse any questions. I would suspect he couldn't even
ask for ID. What if the person responds "I don't have any ID with me"
He can't raise his suspicion level because of a refusal to talk or toy present ID. He would be hard pressed to say he has probable cause when
a few seconds ago he was at reasonable suspicion.

About the only thing he could do is ask the person to wait for a minute
while he checks to see if there is a stolen bike had been reported in
the last "X" minutes

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"Roy" wrote in message news:t7rtff$d00$1@dont-email.me...

On 6/8/2022 4:40 PM, RichD wrote:

On June 4, Roy wrote:

Yesterday I saw a person pushing a bicycle down the
street, missing the front wheel.
Suspicious, no? Because owners commonly (carelessly)
lock their bikes to a rack, through the wheel, not frame.
A thief can easily remove the wheel.
Now, does a cop have probable cause to contact him?
It seems pointless - he can easily claim he's a victim
of theft, or the wheel was damaged, and he removed it himself.
So with nothing to gain, does the cop still have cause?

Probable cause is the standard for detention, arrest, search warrant
etc.
Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of
reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed.
The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a >>> crime has most likely been committed.

So the situation described constitutes reasonable suspicion?
I don't see what might be gained;
"So what's up with the bike?"
"The wheel was stolen, I'm heading to a bike shop for a replacement."

What can the cop do?

--
Rich

I would think you need something other than someone wheeling the bike
without the wheel.

"So what's up with the bike?"
"I don't want to talk to you. I invoke my right to silence. Are you >detaining me, or am I free to go?"

Now the cop can't purse any questions. I would suspect he couldn't even
ask for ID. What if the person responds "I don't have any ID with me" He >can't raise his suspicion level because of a refusal to talk or toy present >ID. He would be hard pressed to say he has probable cause when a few
seconds ago he was at reasonable suspicion.

About the only thing he could do is ask the person to wait for a minute
while he checks to see if there is a stolen bike had been reported in the >last "X" minutes

As a practical matter, I doubt if any police officer would have much
interest in this UNLESS there was a report of a stolen bike in the
neighborhood or perhaps a recent rash of stolen bikes.

--

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