• Subject: the chimerical third

    From Roy@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 20 18:28:38 2022
    Ooops... the message below was sent to m.l.m but got lost in my inbox.

    -----------------------------

    From: RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>

    Has the third amendment to the Bill of Rights ever
    been referenced in a court opinion?

    --
    Rich

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  • From Roy@21:1/5 to Roy on Mon Feb 21 06:41:31 2022
    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123

    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance at present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in the
    Bill of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on the
    basis of it.

    On 2/20/2022 6:28 PM, Roy wrote:

    Ooops... the message below was sent to m.l.m but got lost in my inbox.

    -----------------------------

    From: RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>

    Has the third amendment to the Bill of Rights ever
    been referenced in a court opinion?

    --
    Rich


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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to Roy on Mon Feb 21 08:21:33 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:41:34 AM UTC-5, Roy wrote:
    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123

    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance at present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in the
    Bill of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on the
    basis of it.
    On 2/20/2022 6:28 PM, Roy wrote:

    Ooops... the message below was sent to m.l.m but got lost in my inbox.

    -----------------------------

    From: RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com>

    Has the third amendment to the Bill of Rights ever
    been referenced in a court opinion?

    What does it mean, "no direct constitutional relevance". It is an amendment to the Constitution. How can it not have relevance to the Constitution?

    It is very clear as to its meaning. Hard to have any issues to dispute in court. So, yeah, unlikely to be the basis of any Supreme Court decisions.

    I assume there are various parts of the Constitution that are clear enough to not end up in court.

    --

    Rick C.

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 13:07:23 2022
    According to Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:41:34 AM UTC-5, Roy wrote:
    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123

    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance at
    present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in the
    Bill of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on the
    basis of it.

    What does it mean, "no direct constitutional relevance".

    It means you should read the article that that sentence was taken from rather than guessing.

    A more interesting question is why the Third Amendment was needed. The
    Federal goverment has only the powers enumerated in the constitution,
    and it is hard for me (and for many others) to see where they would
    have the authority to quarter troops without the consent of the
    property owner.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to Roy on Mon Feb 21 13:07:44 2022
    "Roy" wrote in message news:sv088d$1c2$1@dont-email.me...

    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123

    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance at >present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in the Bill
    of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on the basis of
    it.

    On 2/20/2022 6:28 PM, Roy wrote:

    Ooops... the message below was sent to m.l.m but got lost in my inbox.

    -----------------------------

    From: RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>

    Has the third amendment to the Bill of Rights ever
    been referenced in a court opinion?

    --
    Rich


    What about the 27th Amendment? Has that ever been litigated directly? I
    know it was referenced during the 2014 Congressional budget fight, but I
    don't recall it ever coming up in the Supreme Court

    --

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 15:53:59 2022
    What about the 27th Amendment? Has that ever been litigated directly?

    As far as I can tell, the 25th, 26th, and 27th have not been litigated.

    The 26th as passed in response to Oregon vs. Mitchell which in 1970
    said the Congress can set the minimum age for federal elections but
    not for state ones.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to John Levine on Tue Feb 22 04:22:04 2022
    On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 13:07:23 -0800, John Levine wrote:

    According to Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>:
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 9:41:34 AM UTC-5, Roy wrote:
    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/ interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123

    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance
    at present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in
    the Bill of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on
    the basis of it.

    What does it mean, "no direct constitutional relevance".

    It means you should read the article that that sentence was taken from
    rather than guessing.

    A more interesting question is why the Third Amendment was needed. The Federal goverment has only the powers enumerated in the constitution,
    and it is hard for me (and for many others) to see where they would have
    the authority to quarter troops without the consent of the property
    owner.

    I thought a lot of the constitution was drafted in the light of British tyranny. And one thing good old King George did was quarter soldiers (and expect householders to pay for them) on pain of imprisonment ?

    Similarly the second amendment is a reaction to the British trying to ban
    guns.

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 16:36:04 2022
    According to Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com>:
    A more interesting question is why the Third Amendment was needed. ...

    I thought a lot of the constitution was drafted in the light of British >tyranny. And one thing good old King George did was quarter soldiers (and >expect householders to pay for them) on pain of imprisonment ?

    Innkeepers mostly, but yes, the crown had quartered soldiers and
    people really didn't like it. Except that there were all sorts of
    things the British did that the Americans didn't like, which is why
    the Consitution enumerated a list of things the new government could
    do and no more. Quartering isn't in that list, so why a redundant
    amendment about it? Belt and suspenders, I suppose.

    Similarly the second amendment is a reaction to the British trying to ban >guns.

    That's what the current folklore says, but that is false. Recall that the first clause
    refers to "a well regulated militia."

    The actual reason was that the slave states used armed state patrols to put down slave
    revolts and feared that abolitionists in the north would outlaw state militias and so make them unable to keep their slaves under control.

    Read all about it here:

    https://lawreview.law.ucdavis.edu/issues/31/2/Articles/DavisVol31No2_Bogus.pdf

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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  • From RichD@21:1/5 to John Levine on Mon Apr 11 13:02:06 2022
    On February 21, John Levine wrote:
    A more interesting question is why the Third Amendment was needed. The Federal goverment has only the powers enumerated in the constitution,
    and it is hard for me to see where they would have the authority to quarter
    troops without the consent of the property owner.

    Where do the get the authority to create and administer a
    so-called retirement fund, of mandatory participation?

    Where do the get the authority to dictate the sex discriminations of
    rest rooms?

    Where do they get the authority to dictate what substances a
    person may ingest, or what crops a farmer might cultivate?

    --
    Rich

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  • From RichD@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 11 13:17:17 2022
    On February 22, 2022 John Levine wrote:
    Similarly the second amendment is a reaction to the British trying to ban
    guns.

    That's what the current folklore says, but that is false. Recall that the first clause
    refers to "a well regulated militia."
    The actual reason was that the slave states used armed state patrols to put down slave
    revolts and feared that abolitionists in the north would outlaw state militias
    and so make them unable to keep their slaves under control.

    The actual reason was to protect and enable a state's right to secede from the union, if this newfangled 'union' thing didn't work out. The new country had minimal military, and Rhode Island figured their militia could slap down any battalion of federal marshals who came hunting.

    And, New York fought their endless injun wars with their militia, not a non-existent
    'national defense' supplied by the feds.

    --
    Rich

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  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Roy on Mon Apr 11 13:19:54 2022
    On February 21, Roy wrote:
    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123
    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance at present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in the
    Bill of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on the
    basis of it.


    The essay proposes an interesting thesis: the amendment implies a certain relationship between citizens and gummit. Then, such a relationship might
    bear on other questions, separate from quartering troops.

    e.g. "Considering the rights and limits implied by the Third, as intended by the framers, we see that the gov't has overstepped its authority in this case..."

    I can imagine Scalia writing something like that -

    --
    Rich

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  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to John Levine on Mon Apr 11 16:25:54 2022
    "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

    A more interesting question is why the Third Amendment was needed.
    The Federal goverment has only the powers enumerated in the
    constitution, and it is hard for me (and for many others) to see
    where they would have the authority to quarter troops without the
    consent of the property owner.

    Provide for the national defense.

    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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  • From Elle N@21:1/5 to Roy on Wed Apr 13 16:32:00 2022
    On Monday, February 21, 2022 at 8:41:34 AM UTC-6, Roy wrote:
    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/interpretation/amendment-iii/interps/123

    The Third Amendment seems to have no direct constitutional relevance at present; indeed, not only is it the least litigated amendment in the
    Bill of Rights, but the Supreme Court has never decided a case on the
    basis of it.
    On 2/20/2022 6:28 PM, Roy wrote:

    Ooops... the message below was sent to m.l.m but got lost in my inbox.

    -----------------------------

    From: RichD <r_dela...@yahoo.com>

    Has the third amendment to the Bill of Rights ever
    been referenced in a court opinion?


    Yes, many, including U. S. Supreme Court opinions. Some SCOTUS opinions felt the Third was important enough to justify quoting the Amendment in its entirety.

    As to whether SCOTUS 'has ever decided a case on the basis of the Third Amendment,' I guess this depends on what one means by "on the basis of."

    From the link above, Brown University's Professor Wood writes about the privacy implications of the Third Amendment. Litigation involving privacy rights is where the Third seems to come up most often. But I see also some SCOTUS opinions that rely in part on the Third to defend real property rights, and at least one opinion that I think speaks of the Third in the context of limiting the President's power.

    I suppose it's fair to say that SCOTUS has never decided a case based //solely// on an interpretation of the Third Amendment.

    Here are five SCOTUS opinions that were based in part on the Third Amendment:

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/176/581/

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/256/135/

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/343/579/

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/367/497/

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/381/479/

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/389/347/
    (mentioned in a mere footnote)


    I think anyone who has followed, for one, abortion rights law
    would know this.

    But again, I grant that Professor Wood had something else
    in mind when he published his piece above. It's not like he
    does not have the equivalent of justia.com at his disposal.

    (Rainy day https://worldle.teuteuf.fr/ stuff.)

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