• CARFAX and used car valuation after accident

    From Rich Wales@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 8 05:55:34 2022
    I'm disturbed about the way CARFAX affects the resale value of cars that have been in accidents.

    My understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that many users of CARFAX filter out reports for vehicles that have been in any accident at all, no matter how minor. There is no opportunity for the seller (or the body shop) to explain
    exactly what happened -- any accident report is a black mark which most buyers simply do not want to be bothered to understand.

    I was in a "bumper thumper" rear-end accident some years ago. There was no frame damage, and the body shop fixed the internal and external damage completely, restoring the vehicle to its full pre-accident condition. When I later traded the car in,
    however, the dealer insisted on discounting their buy-back price by about $2,000 because of the CARFAX accident report. It didn't matter a bit to them exactly what the nature or extent of the damage had been -- all they seemed to care about was that the
    CARFAX report mentioned an accident. My impression was that dealers do this, partially because they can (!), and largely because prospective buyers would pull the CARFAX report, see there had been an accident, and just move on to the next listing, thus
    making it harder for the dealer to resell the car for its real value based on its condition.

    Is there any available remedy here? If I had included in my insurance claim an additional amount compensating me for the likely reduced resale value of my car after the other guy rear-ended me, would the other guy's insurer take me seriously? I assume
    I wouldn't have had any recourse against CARFAX, which is free to say anything they want about my car as long as it can be backed up with facts, and which has no real control over how careful (or cursory) an examination users of their service give their
    reports.

    Rich Wales
    richw@richw.org

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  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to Rich Wales on Sat Jan 8 07:33:06 2022
    Rich Wales <richw@richw.org> wrote:

    I'm disturbed about the way CARFAX affects the resale value of
    cars that have been in accidents.

    My understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that
    many users of CARFAX filter out reports for vehicles that have
    been in any accident at all, no matter how minor. There is no
    opportunity for the seller (or the body shop) to explain exactly
    what happened -- any accident report is a black mark which most
    buyers simply do not want to be bothered to understand.

    Is there any available remedy here? If I had included in my
    insurance claim an additional amount compensating me for the
    likely reduced resale value of my car after the other guy
    rear-ended me, would the other guy's insurer take me seriously? I
    assume I wouldn't have had any recourse against CARFAX, which is
    free to say anything they want about my car as long as it can be
    backed up with facts, and which has no real control over how
    careful (or cursory) an examination users of their service give
    their reports.

    I suppose you could take Carfax to small claims court and sue them
    for negligently misrepresenting the value or condition of your car.
    You might also try your car insurance company (you'd probably have to
    sue them too for this) because they really didn't properly compensate
    you for the loss due to your accident. But I can't think of anything
    else.

    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 8 21:46:42 2022
    "Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message news:XnsAE194702828C2spamtraplexregiacom@130.133.4.11...

    Rich Wales <richw@richw.org> wrote:

    I'm disturbed about the way CARFAX affects the resale value of
    cars that have been in accidents.

    My understanding (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) is that
    many users of CARFAX filter out reports for vehicles that have
    been in any accident at all, no matter how minor. There is no
    opportunity for the seller (or the body shop) to explain exactly
    what happened -- any accident report is a black mark which most
    buyers simply do not want to be bothered to understand.

    Is there any available remedy here? If I had included in my
    insurance claim an additional amount compensating me for the
    likely reduced resale value of my car after the other guy
    rear-ended me, would the other guy's insurer take me seriously? I
    assume I wouldn't have had any recourse against CARFAX, which is
    free to say anything they want about my car as long as it can be
    backed up with facts, and which has no real control over how
    careful (or cursory) an examination users of their service give
    their reports.

    I suppose you could take Carfax to small claims court and sue them
    for negligently misrepresenting the value or condition of your car.
    You might also try your car insurance company (you'd probably have to
    sue them too for this) because they really didn't properly compensate
    you for the loss due to your accident. But I can't think of anything
    else.


    I don't see how it makes sense to sue Carfax since all they do is report on
    the car's accident history. They don't set the value.. It's really up to individual buyers to decide if they want to use Carfax to determine whether
    a car has had an accident, and each buyer has a perfect right to do that. I don't see any basis for a legal action here - it's just bad luck on your
    part that the car you want to sell was once in an accident. This is frankly why many buyers will get rid of a car as soon as it's been in an accident,
    even if it has been repaired thoroughly to the same condition as before the accident.

    --

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  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to Rick on Sat Jan 8 22:56:44 2022
    "Rick" <rick@nospam.com> wrote:

    I don't see how it makes sense to sue Carfax since all they do is
    report on the car's accident history. They don't set the value..
    It's really up to individual buyers to decide if they want to use
    Carfax to determine whether a car has had an accident, and each
    buyer has a perfect right to do that. I don't see any basis for a
    legal action here - it's just bad luck on your part that the car
    you want to sell was once in an accident. This is frankly why
    many buyers will get rid of a car as soon as it's been in an
    accident, even if it has been repaired thoroughly to the same
    condition as before the accident.

    If that's all they do, then I agree with you. I'm not familiar with
    Carfax, but it sounded from what someone said, that they don't give
    the complete story. They don't say whether it was major or minor,
    they don't say whether repairs fully restored the car. If they give
    some information but not other information that is necessary or
    helpful in determining the value of a car, then they are negligent.
    And that negligence can cause damage.

    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to It appears that Stuart O. Bronstein on Sun Jan 9 11:55:05 2022
    It appears that Stuart O. Bronstein <spamtrap@lexregia.com> said:
    I don't see how it makes sense to sue Carfax since all they do is
    report on the car's accident history. ...

    If that's all they do, then I agree with you. I'm not familiar with
    Carfax, but it sounded from what someone said, that they don't give
    the complete story. ...

    They tell you what they know, from registration and insurance info.
    They know there was an accident report, they know if it was bad
    enough that the car was totalled and now has a salvage title.

    I agree that "people would pay more for my car if they didn't know it
    was in an accident" does not seem like a winning argument.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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  • From Rick C@21:1/5 to John Levine on Sun Jan 23 06:51:06 2022
    On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-5, John Levine wrote:
    It appears that Stuart O. Bronstein <spam...@lexregia.com> said:
    I don't see how it makes sense to sue Carfax since all they do is
    report on the car's accident history. ...
    If that's all they do, then I agree with you. I'm not familiar with
    Carfax, but it sounded from what someone said, that they don't give
    the complete story. ...

    They tell you what they know, from registration and insurance info.
    They know there was an accident report, they know if it was bad
    enough that the car was totalled and now has a salvage title.

    I agree that "people would pay more for my car if they didn't know it
    was in an accident" does not seem like a winning argument.

    Is the accident history from insurance claims? Would a dealer report repairs to anyone? I had a very minor accident not too long ago and I'm wondering if my car will show up as being in an "accident" when the damage is repaired if not reported to the
    insurance company?

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 23 11:41:53 2022
    According to Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>:
    On Sunday, January 9, 2022 at 2:55:11 PM UTC-5, John Levine wrote:
    It appears that Stuart O. Bronstein <spam...@lexregia.com> said:
    I don't see how it makes sense to sue Carfax since all they do is
    report on the car's accident history. ...
    If that's all they do, then I agree with you. I'm not familiar with
    Carfax, but it sounded from what someone said, that they don't give
    the complete story. ...

    They tell you what they know, from registration and insurance info.
    They know there was an accident report, they know if it was bad
    enough that the car was totalled and now has a salvage title.

    I agree that "people would pay more for my car if they didn't know it
    was in an accident" does not seem like a winning argument.

    Is the accident history from insurance claims?

    I believe so.

    Would a dealer report repairs to anyone?

    No, but they wouldn't have to if the insurance company paid for them, as is usually the case.

    I had a very minor accident not too long ago and I'm wondering if my car will
    show up as being in an "accident" when the damage is repaired if not reported to the insurance company?

    Probably not. Let your conscience be your guide.

    --
    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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