Having a formal record of a complaint, but not causing a criminal record
I'm not especially talking about minors below, and even if someone is a >minor, aiui the criminal records of minors are sealed, not vaporized,
and are still available sometimes, and even if they were vaporized at
age 18, they exist until minority ends, and I'm trying to avoid a
criminal record, even one that will disappear in a few years. And of
course if one is not a minor when the story below happens, it won't
disappear at all:
If someone C commits a crime againt a "victim" V, but V doesn't want to
make a big deal out of it, wants to "forget" it, but wants a formal
record that it happened so that C will be treated with the proper
seriousness if/when he does it again, or does something else bad, is
there a method to do that?
Say C threw a snowball against the brick wall of someone's house, or >vandalizes someone's mailbox, breaks it or writes graffiti on it. Maybe
he TPs part of the house. Maybe he steals a $500 bicycle from the open >garage. Maybe he breaks into the house and steals money. Maybe he
slugs someone. Maybe he physically or sexually mistreats some girl but
seems to have thought or says he thought at the time that she wasn't >objecting or that she was happy about it (and maybe she agrees that she
was ambiguous***),
There are endless possibilities, and either because V knows C, or his
family, or feels sorry for him, or feels any penalty imposed wiill be >excessive to the offense, or just doesn't want to waste V's own time, he >doesn't want charges to be pressed.
But at the same time, if C just says "I'm sorry" but then does it again,
the second time he will deny the first time ever happened.
OTOH, if V calls the police, unless V makes a complaint sufficient to
get C arrested, afaik, there will be no record at all. The first crime
and all subsequent ones until V loses his patience, will be as if they
never happened. That's no good.
And if he does make a complaint, C will be questioned and probably
arrested and either way he'll have a criminal record, at least as a
suspect or of an arrest.
I want their to be a record of a complaint, and maybe a record of what C
says is the actual fact, but no formal police complaint. Us that
possible? OTOH, if there is a formal police complaint, won't that mean >there is a criminal record?
What do people do to avoid either extreme? What should people do?
I had a real example close to me or someone I know a couple days ago but
I've totally forgotten what it was. The list of crimes I have at the
start does not include what prompted this, except maybe by chance. But I >still think I've described the situation.
As far as I know, there is no other "official" way to record your
complaint while assuring no one will follow through on it. You could,
of course, put your concerns into a letter or some other unofficial
written document to the person who committed the act (or their
guardian, if it's a minor), but I think once you convey information to authorities that a crime has or may have been committed, it's really
out of your hands as to what they choose to do with the information.
But you have to be careful. When you threaten to accuse someone of a crime and demand something of value to not turn them in (even if you are entitled to what you are asking for), that's considered extortion, and could be a
more serious crime than the one the other person committed.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 22:18:37 -0700 (PDT), Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
But you have to be careful. When you threaten to accuse someone of a
crime and demand something of value to not turn them in (even if you
are entitled to what you are asking for), that's considered
extortion, and could be a more serious crime than the one the other
person committed.
Is that true even in cases of theft, where a victim may say "return
what you stole and I won't call the police"? Or is the an exception
for "undoing" the crime?
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 22:18:37 -0700 (PDT), Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
But you have to be careful. When you threaten to accuse someone of a
crime and demand something of value to not turn them in (even if you
are entitled to what you are asking for), that's considered
extortion, and could be a more serious crime than the one the other
person committed.
Is that true even in cases of theft, where a victim may say "return
what you stole and I won't call the police"? Or is the an exception
for "undoing" the crime?
Technically it applies to that situation as well. If you threaten to
accuse someone of a crime if he doesn't give you something of value - even
if it's something he stole from you, that is extortion. You can certainly >turn him in to the police, but the threat coupled with the demand is what >makes it extortion.
"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 22:18:37 -0700 (PDT), Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
But you have to be careful. When you threaten to accuse someone of
a crime and demand something of value to not turn them in (even if
you are entitled to what you are asking for), that's considered
extortion, and could be a more serious crime than the one the other
person committed.
Is that true even in cases of theft, where a victim may say "return
what you stole and I won't call the police"? Or is the an exception
for "undoing" the crime?
Technically it applies to that situation as well. If you threaten to >>accuse someone of a crime if he doesn't give you something of value -
even if it's something he stole from you, that is extortion. You can >>certainly turn him in to the police, but the threat coupled with the
demand is what makes it extortion.
While telling someone "return what you stole and I won't call the
police" might technically be extortion, I can't imagine any reasonable
DA actually prosecuting that case - especially if the so-called victim
really did steal the items from the alleged extorter. And if it did
somehow go to trial, I think you’d likely see a nullification scenario
where a jury of reasonable people aren't going to convict an otherwise innocent person who is merely trying to get their stolen property
"Rick" <rick@nospam.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
really did steal the items from the alleged extorter. And if it did somehow go to trial, I think you?d likely see a nullification scenario where a jury of reasonable people aren't going to convict an otherwise innocent person who is merely trying to get their stolen property
It doesn't happen often, but I have seen people prosecuted and convicted
in that kind of situation. To do it properly, first you file a complaint with the police and then demand your property back.
"...
But the OJ case was different because he actually committed a felony
crime (using a gun, no less) in re-obtaining items he said were stolen
from him. ...
--
"Rick" <rick@nospam.com> wrote:
"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
On Thu, 25 Jul 2024 22:18:37 -0700 (PDT), Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
But you have to be careful. When you threaten to accuse someone of
a crime and demand something of value to not turn them in (even if
you are entitled to what you are asking for), that's considered
extortion, and could be a more serious crime than the one the other
person committed.
Is that true even in cases of theft, where a victim may say "return
what you stole and I won't call the police"? Or is the an exception
for "undoing" the crime?
Technically it applies to that situation as well. If you threaten to >>>accuse someone of a crime if he doesn't give you something of value - >>>even if it's something he stole from you, that is extortion. You can >>>certainly turn him in to the police, but the threat coupled with the >>>demand is what makes it extortion.
While telling someone "return what you stole and I won't call the
police" might technically be extortion, I can't imagine any reasonable
DA actually prosecuting that case - especially if the so-called victim
really did steal the items from the alleged extorter. And if it did
somehow go to trial, I think you’d likely see a nullification scenario
where a jury of reasonable people aren't going to convict an otherwise
innocent person who is merely trying to get their stolen property
It doesn't happen often, but I have seen people prosecuted and convicted
in that kind of situation. To do it properly, first you file a complaint >with the police and then demand your property back.
It's similar to what OJ Simpson was accused of, when he used a gun and
robbed someone of property OJ said had been stolen from him.
On 7/27/2024 9:21 PM, Rick wrote:
"...
But the OJ case was different because he actually committed a felony
crime (using a gun, no less) in re-obtaining items he said were stolen
from him. ...
--
My wife and I traveled a lot on I-80 between CA and UT to visit family. We >would wave to OJ at the Lovelock Correctional Center when we drove through >Nevada.
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