The chance that Don Trump might win the election
in 2024, while sitting in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
Then, upon due and thoughtful deliberation, with probity,
objectivity, and selflessness, for which he is renowned,
he decides that pardoning himself is in the best interest
of the country. He prepares to sign the papers... but lacks a pen.
The warden has decided that a pen is a potential weapon,
and dictated that no inmate shall receive one, as institutional
policy. He does have such authority, does he not? So, no
signature, no pardon.
So... how does that play out? Of course it's preposterous,
but it's a technical legal question, of whether such an
inconceivable thing is possible.
--
Rich
The chance that Don Trump might win the election
in 2024, while sitting in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
Then, upon due and thoughtful deliberation, with probity,
objectivity, and selflessness, for which he is renowned,
he decides that pardoning himself is in the best interest
of the country. He prepares to sign the papers... but lacks a pen.
The warden has decided that a pen is a potential weapon,
and dictated that no inmate shall receive one, as institutional
policy. He does have such authority, does he not? So, no
signature, no pardon.
So... how does that play out? Of course it's preposterous,
but it's a technical legal question, of whether such an
inconceivable thing is possible.
--
Rich
The chance that Don Trump might win the election
in 2024, while sitting in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
Then, upon due and thoughtful deliberation, with probity,
objectivity, and selflessness, for which he is renowned,
he decides that pardoning himself is in the best interest
of the country. He prepares to sign the papers... but lacks a pen.
The warden has decided that a pen is a potential weapon,
and dictated that no inmate shall receive one, as institutional
policy. He does have such authority, does he not? So, no
signature, no pardon.
So... how does that play out? Of course it's preposterous,
but it's a technical legal question, of whether such an
inconceivable thing is possible.
The chance that Don Trump might win the election in 2024, while sitting
in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
On 8/15/2023 8:03 PM, RichD wrote:
The chance that Don Trump might win the election
in 2024, while sitting in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
Then, upon due and thoughtful deliberation, with probity,
objectivity, and selflessness, for which he is renowned,
he decides that pardoning himself is in the best interest
of the country. He prepares to sign the papers... but lacks a pen.
The warden has decided that a pen is a potential weapon,
and dictated that no inmate shall receive one, as institutional
policy. He does have such authority, does he not? So, no
signature, no pardon.
So... how does that play out? Of course it's preposterous,
but it's a technical legal question, of whether such an
inconceivable thing is possible.
--
Rich
In the Federal Prison Program Statement of the mail management manual, it >states “Inmates shall be provided with writing paper and envelopes at no >cost to the inmate” This is a Federal regulation. One can buy pencils from >commissary, or if indigent, request one from a counselor, including up to 3 >stamps a month.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 20:03:54 -0700, RichD wrote:
The chance that Don Trump might win the election in 2024, while sitting
in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
I was interested to read that the Georgia case is a state case and thus >immune from a presidential pardon. Apparently it may cause some of those >charged to seek a deal
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 20:03:54 -0700, RichD wrote:
The chance that Don Trump might win the election in 2024, while sitting
in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
I was interested to read that the Georgia case is a state case and thus >immune from a presidential pardon. Apparently it may cause some of those >charged to seek a deal
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message news:ubhr0o$1cd5$22@dont-email.me...
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 20:03:54 -0700, RichD wrote:
The chance that Don Trump might win the election in 2024, while
sitting in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
I was interested to read that the Georgia case is a state case and
thus immune from a presidential pardon. Apparently it may cause
some of those charged to seek a deal
That's already happening. Mark Meadows has requested that the
case be transferred to the Federal court system, and I suspect
other defendants (including DJT) will do the same.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaking-mark-meadows-seeks-to-move-fu lton-charges-to-fed-court/YB4RCQUGV5FN5FFTCGRBIXFEIY/
In Ex parte Grossman, 267 U.S. 87 (1925), SCOTUS said that the
Constitution's pardon clause did not apply to offenses against a state's
law (as opposed to federal law).
If Trump or one of his co-defendants were to be convicted in Georgia, I
could easily imagine Trump (or another GOP president if Trump doesn't win
in 2024) attempting to issue a pardon anyway, arguing that "offenses
against the United States" does in fact include state crimes despite >Grossman. Whether such an argument would fly is highly questionable, but >given the current SCOTUS' disdain for precedent, who knows what might
happen.
Rich Wales
For that matter, has any presidential pardon ever been challenged, >successfully or otherwise, in the courts?
"Rich Wales" wrote
In Ex parte Grossman, 267 U.S. 87 (1925), SCOTUS said that the >>Constitution's pardon clause did not apply to offenses against a
state's law (as opposed to federal law).
If Trump or one of his co-defendants were to be convicted in
Georgia, I could easily imagine Trump (or another GOP president if
Trump doesn't win in 2024) attempting to issue a pardon anyway,
arguing that "offenses against the United States" does in fact
include state crimes despite Grossman. Whether such an argument
would fly is highly questionable, but given the current SCOTUS'
disdain for precedent, who knows what might happen.
Which brings up the question - if the pardon is subsequently
reversed by the Supreme Court, can the defendant then claim double
jeopardy for being effectively convicted of the same crime twice
after being "acquitted" by way of pardon.
For that matter, has any presidential pardon ever been challenged, successfully or otherwise, in the courts?
In misc.legal.moderated, on Wed, 16 Aug 2023 08:37:25 -0700 (PDT),
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 20:03:54 -0700, RichD wrote:
The chance that Don Trump might win the election in 2024, while
sitting in a federal prison cell, is non-zero.
I was interested to read that the Georgia case is a state case and thus >>immune from a presidential pardon. Apparently it may cause some of those >>charged to seek a deal
LIke some professional newscasters (and their writers, I guess) I had
been assuming that like in most states the governor of Georgia could
pardon trump, and he's a recentely re-elected Republican (Kemp). Not a stooge for trump, in that he refused efforts to lie about the Georgia
vote, and just yesterday he tweeted that trump was/is wrong about the
Georgia election, that the election was honest and the vote count was accurate.
But it turns out the governor of Georgia has no right to pardon
criminals. Why is that? I missed the man's name but in I think it was
the 40's, the new governor of Georgia appointed a high level Klansman to
a major state job, that paid him money somehow. And he also had
pre-printed pardons. He sent someone to the prisons who would say to
the prisoners, Who wants a pardon? How much money do you have? And he
sold pardons. I wish I knew his name.
So the legislature took away the pardon power from the governor.
There is a pardon committee but they can only pardon someone after he
has completed his sentence and 5 years have passed. Wow.
"Rich Wales" wrote in message news:0116098f-76f1-4ef4-bd3a-e8d732959268n@googlegroups.com...
In Ex parte Grossman, 267 U.S. 87 (1925), SCOTUS said that the
Constitution's pardon clause did not apply to offenses against a
state's law (as opposed to federal law).
If Trump or one of his co-defendants were to be convicted in Georgia,
I could easily imagine Trump (or another GOP president if Trump
doesn't win in 2024) attempting to issue a pardon anyway, arguing that
"offenses against the United States" does in fact include state crimes
despite Grossman. Whether such an argument would fly is highly
questionable, but given the current SCOTUS' disdain for precedent, who
knows what might happen.
Rich Wales
Which brings up the question - if the pardon is subsequently reversed by
the Supreme Court, can the defendant then claim double jeopardy for
being effectively convicted of the same crime twice after being
"acquitted" by way of pardon.
For that matter, has any presidential pardon ever been challenged, successfully or otherwise, in the courts?
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