You only need to watch the first minute to get the gist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp8Ep_rxuY0

A Florida man has put his legal team in a precarious position, and he
didn't even realize it. The resident of Florida has maintained that he declassified all of the documents that he took from The White House (even though he's on tape saying that he did NOT do that), and this puts his
lawyers in an uncomfortable position. In order to view the evidence
against the former President, the lawyers have to get classified
clearance - but if he declassified the documents then they wouldn't need
it. And therein lies the trap that will be used against them in court.

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On 7/14/2023 12:24 PM, Jethro_uk wrote:

You only need to watch the first minute to get the gist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp8Ep_rxuY0

A Florida man has put his legal team in a precarious position, and he
didn't even realize it. The resident of Florida has maintained that he declassified all of the documents that he took from The White House (even though he's on tape saying that he did NOT do that), and this puts his lawyers in an uncomfortable position. In order to view the evidence
against the former President, the lawyers have to get classified
clearance - but if he declassified the documents then they wouldn't need
it. And therein lies the trap that will be used against them in court.

The documents are going to be evidence so they have to be shown to the
defense. If the prosecution insists on a clearance for the viewers then
it should provide them. Also the judge, court officers, and the jury
may also require clearance.

Its probable that a clearance is needed just to enter the storage area.
The SCIF where in the building where I worked had armed guards and no
one got in without being on the "approved" list and there was no one on
site including the commander who could put a person on it.

As far as the government protecting documents, a funny story I tell is
that mailman delivered a package to our apartment and my wife signed for
it. Inside was a Secret document. The package was addressed to me in
the town where I lived but no street address.

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"Jethro_uk" wrote in message news:u8ruqn$2f8s1$17@dont-email.me...

You only need to watch the first minute to get the gist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp8Ep_rxuY0

A Florida man has put his legal team in a precarious position, and he
didn't even realize it. The resident of Florida has maintained that he >declassified all of the documents that he took from The White House (even >though he's on tape saying that he did NOT do that), and this puts his >lawyers in an uncomfortable position. In order to view the evidence
against the former President, the lawyers have to get classified
clearance - but if he declassified the documents then they wouldn't need
it. And therein lies the trap that will be used against them in court.

I think you miss the point that the judge in the case ordered the lawyers to get the security clearance, since the question of whether or not Trump
actually declassified them himself has not yet been legally settled by the court. So there is no contradiction here. Trump's team may indeed believe
the documents are already declassified, but they still need to get the clearance because the judge has ordered them to do so.

--

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On 7/14/2023 3:17 PM, Barry Gold wrote:

...

Boy does that ever not fit what I know of the rules for classified docs.
It's supposed to be hand-carried by an authorized courier, in a sealed envelope inside a briefcase that is chained to the courier's wrist.

Actually, IIRC there's a rule allowing sending material, but there's a
bunch of hoops to jump through -- the Security Officer at the sending
site must approve doing this, the carrier must be approved, an internal envelope or box with the appropriate classification on it, and an
external envelope/box with NO classified markings. *And* the recipient
must be notified that it is coming, at least 24 hours in advance. https://fiswg.research.ucf.edu/Documents/PDF/Shipping_and_Receiving_Class_Material_Overview_July_2014.pdf

My incident was in 1972 or 1973 so the rules may have changed. The
sender was at Wright Patterson AFB and I was in the Army in the
intelligence biz at an office with 500+ people. At the time you could
send Secret via Certified Registered Mail.We didn't have a lot of correspondence directly with the Air Force so maybe that is why it
happened. Had they used the street address it would have gone directly
to our mail room.

With lots of classified documents coming and going we had a courier or
two between us and DC every day so that was the usual route.

TS and above along with Crypto keys was via multiple armed couriers.

Also see

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/ospp/securityguide/S1class/Mailing.htm

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On 7/14/2023 1:34 PM, Roy wrote:

On 7/14/2023 12:24 PM, Jethro_uk wrote:

You only need to watch the first minute to get the gist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp8Ep_rxuY0

A Florida man  has put his legal team in a precarious position, and he
didn't even realize it. The resident of Florida has maintained that he
declassified all of the documents that he took from The White House (even
though he's on tape saying that he did NOT do that), and this puts his
lawyers in an uncomfortable position. In order to view the evidence
against the former President, the lawyers have to get classified
clearance - but if he declassified the documents then they wouldn't need
it. And therein lies the trap that will be used against them in court.

The documents are going to be evidence so they have to be shown to the defense.  If the prosecution insists on a clearance for the viewers then
it should provide them.  Also the judge, court officers, and the jury
may also require clearance.

Its probable that a clearance is needed just to enter the storage area.
The SCIF where in the building where I worked had armed guards and no
one got in without being on the "approved" list and there was no one on
site including the commander who could put a person on it.

As far as the government protecting documents, a funny story I tell is
that mailman delivered a package to our apartment and my wife signed for it.  Inside was a Secret document.  The package was addressed to me in
the town where I lived but no street address.

Boy does that ever not fit what I know of the rules for classified docs.
It's supposed to be hand-carried by an authorized courier, in a sealed
envelope inside a briefcase that is chained to the courier's wrist.

Actually, IIRC there's a rule allowing sending material, but there's a
bunch of hoops to jump through -- the Security Officer at the sending
site must approve doing this, the carrier must be approved, an internal envelope or box with the appropriate classification on it, and an
external envelope/box with NO classified markings. *And* the recipient
must be notified that it is coming, at least 24 hours in advance. https://fiswg.research.ucf.edu/Documents/PDF/Shipping_and_Receiving_Class_Material_Overview_July_2014.pdf


--
I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

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In misc.legal.moderated, on Fri, 14 Jul 2023 12:24:03 -0700 (PDT),
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

You only need to watch the first minute to get the gist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp8Ep_rxuY0

A Florida man has put his legal team in a precarious position, and he
didn't even realize it. The resident of Florida has maintained that he >declassified all of the documents that he took from The White House (even >though he's on tape saying that he did NOT do that), and this puts his >lawyers in an uncomfortable position. In order to view the evidence
against the former President, the lawyers have to get classified
clearance - but if he declassified the documents then they wouldn't need
it. And therein lies the trap that will be used against them in court.

If there's a big trap, it's easy enough to avoid springing it today.
They only need to say, We want to get security clearnance in case it's
held by this court that the documents are still classified. If it's
held that they are not, no harm done. (Of course there's a delay, but
they want that, so it's not harm afatc.)

Last week one of the lawyers still hadn't filled out the form, let alone
filed it. I wonder if he has yet! I wonder what the judge will do to
spur him on. I'd lock him in a room with nothing to do but fill out the
form.

Now I hear there may be documents at 2 other florida golf clubs that he
owns, Royale and Doral. He doesn't sleep there so in the naivete** of
the DOJ, they weren't searched. (Though he did sleep at one of them the
night before his arraignment. Maybe he wanted to hold them while he
slept. Probably more satisfying to hold them than a woman. Loads of
men have a woman, but how many have Top Secret documents?)
**Or overly strict rules about probable cause. When you have
someone hiding documents, and there are still 17 of those big boxes
known to be missing, which there are, that seems like probable cause to
search every piece of real estate or storage locker he owns or controls,
in any state.


--
I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
I am not a lawyer.

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In misc.legal.moderated, on Fri, 14 Jul 2023 13:34:40 -0700 (PDT), Roy <montanawolf@outlook.com> wrote:

As far as the government protecting documents, a funny story I tell is
that mailman delivered a package to our apartment and my wife signed for
it. Inside was a Secret document. The package was addressed to me in
the town where I lived but no street address.

Either you live in a SCIF or you're like Santa Clause and no address is
needed.

.....
Youre wife signed for it at your apartment but it would have gone to the mailroom if they'd used your address. Your apartment has a mailroom?
Oh, I think I get it.


--
I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
I am not a lawyer.

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