Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on social media or in a private communication? Example: posting/saying: "I am using my private connections to secure a meeting with ... <e.g.,
Musk>", though it's just a tall dream, and no such activity is in progress.

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In misc.legal.moderated, on Thu, 15 Jun 2023 08:27:55 -0700 (PDT),
"Leonard S." <leonard.skemp@gmail.com> wrote:

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on social media or in a private communication? Example: posting/saying: "I am using my private connections to secure a meeting with ... <e.g.

, Musk>", though it's just a tall dream, and no such activity is in progress.

If what comes next is:

"If you'd like me to relay a message to Mr. Musk when I meet with him,
please
a) sign up for my newsletter,
b) subscribe to my newsletter for $10/year"

I'm sure that b is fraud, and a must be fraud too, even if the detriment
to the subscriber is v. small.

Though I can certainly imagine that the police would ignore b. I read
a story yesterday where iirc someone had forged an audio message from a grandchild asking for $1000, and because the grandparent was smart
enough to checkl and didn't send any money, the police would not do
anything. (Admittedly it would be harder, with no record of them picking
up the money, but the impression the gparent had was that it was ONLY
because he had not lost money.)

But if it goes no farther than him bragging about being in the process
of setting up a meeting, or even if he says he's set it up, had it, and
they had drinks together, I can't think of legal repercussions for those things.

I don't think every bad thing should be against the law, and this seems
like a reasonable red line. And for that matter, I don't think lying
is always wrong. I see so many posters to media including sometimes
advice columnists like Carolyn Hax sometimes who think that lying is
always wrong -- I think they get this from some line in the Bible --
even though they themselve, if they were hiding a bleeding woman from
the boyfriend she says just beat her up and lying to him about it when
he came looking for her. There are many other situations when lying is
the right thing to do.

One sage divided lying into 3 groups, lying for the benefit of the
person you are talking to, lying for the benefit of 3rd parties, and
lying for your own benefit. Any of them could be wrong but the latter
is the most likely to be morally wrong, but not all the time.

If he lied and said, My neighbor Joe who lives on the corner is building
a bomb in his basement, I guess that would be slander and you excluded
thtat already.

So if all he is doing is lying like in your example, I don't see any
civil or criminal wrong.

BTW, my sig says I'm not a lawyer, but I might be lying.

--
I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
I am not a lawyer.

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"Leonard S." <leonard.skemp@gmail.com> wrote:

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there
potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on social
media or in a private communication? Example: posting/saying: "I
am using my private connections to secure a meeting with ...
<e.g., Musk>", though it's just a tall dream, and no such activity
is in progress.

Generally lying is considered protected speech. However that doesn't
mean you can lie any time you like. Lying to the FBI is a crime, for
example. And lying about a military record is also illegal. Further,
if you like with the intent that someone does something relying on that
lie, that can also land you in jail.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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On Thursday, June 15, 2023 at 3:42:12 PM UTC-5, Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:

"Leonard S." wrote:

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there
potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on social
media or in a private communication? Example: posting/saying: "I
am using my private connections to secure a meeting with ...
<e.g., Musk>", though it's just a tall dream, and no such activity
is in progress.

Generally lying is considered protected speech. However that doesn't
mean you can lie any time you like. Lying to the FBI is a crime, for
example. And lying about a military record is also illegal. Further,
if you like with the intent that someone does something relying on that
lie, that can also land you in jail.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

Thank you, micky and Stuart!
Stuart, could you please elaborate further on what kind of "something" in your last sentence would create that jeopardy?

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"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message news:XnsB0247F2DA18CEspamtraplexregiacom@130.133.4.11...

"Leonard S." <leonard.skemp@gmail.com> wrote:

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there
potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on social
media or in a private communication? Example: posting/saying: "I
am using my private connections to secure a meeting with ...
<e.g., Musk>", though it's just a tall dream, and no such activity
is in progress.

Generally lying is considered protected speech. However that doesn't
mean you can lie any time you like. Lying to the FBI is a crime, for >example. And lying about a military record is also illegal. Further,
if you like with the intent that someone does something relying on that
lie, that can also land you in jail.

What about lying to police? I have heard that lying to the police is not necessarily a crime, if you're not under oath when they ask you something.
But on the other hand, it would seem that reporting a crime that didn't
really happen or making an accusation about someone that isn't true can't be all right. What are the rules about when you can and cannot lie to police?

Also, if a person is on trial and denies under oath that he committed the crime, but the jury convicts him anyway - does the state ever come back and
try the person for perjury? Or do0 you sort of get an implied pass for
saying you are innocent even if you are later found guilty?

--

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"Leonard S." <leonard.skemp@gmail.com> wrote:

Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:

"Leonard S." wrote:

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there
potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on
social media or in a private communication? Example:
posting/saying: "I am using my private connections to secure a
meeting with ... <e.g., Musk>", though it's just a tall dream,
and no such activity is in progress.

Generally lying is considered protected speech. However that
doesn't mean you can lie any time you like. Lying to the FBI is a
crime, for example. And lying about a military record is also
illegal. Further, if you like with the intent that someone does
something relying on that lie, that can also land you in jail.

Thank you, micky and Stuart!
Stuart, could you please elaborate further on what kind of
"something" in your last sentence would create that jeopardy?

In general that "something" has to do with something of value. If
you lie to someone intending they rely on that lie, and they lose
money as a result, that could constitute criminal fraud. If they are
injured, that might not be criminal (though it could be) but it would
be considered a civil tort, which could end up in a judgment for
money.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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"Rick" <rick@nospam.com> wrote in news:u6fvnj$hesp$1@dont-email.me:

"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote

"Leonard S." <leonard.skemp@gmail.com> wrote:

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there
potentially legal repercussions for lying while bragging on
social media or in a private communication? Example:
posting/saying: "I am using my private connections to secure a
meeting with ... <e.g., Musk>", though it's just a tall dream,
and no such activity is in progress.

Generally lying is considered protected speech. However that
doesn't mean you can lie any time you like. Lying to the FBI is a
crime, for example. And lying about a military record is also
illegal. Further, if you like with the intent that someone does
something relying on that lie, that can also land you in jail.

What about lying to police? I have heard that lying to the police
is not necessarily a crime, if you're not under oath when they ask
you something.

That depends on the laws of the state you are in. I don't practice
criminal law, but I have the impression that lying to police is
illegal in some states but may not be in others.

But on the other hand, it would seem that reporting
a crime that didn't really happen or making an accusation about
someone that isn't true can't be all right. What are the rules
about when you can and cannot lie to police?

That's a whole lot more complicated than can be dealt with here.
Making a false accusation against someone is likely a crime in most
if not all states. And if the person makes a false accusation
because he didn't get something of value, that could be evidence of
extortion.

Also, if a person is on trial and denies under oath that he
committed the crime, but the jury convicts him anyway - does the
state ever come back and try the person for perjury? Or do0 you
sort of get an implied pass for saying you are innocent even if
you are later found guilty?

It's very unusual for someone to be charged with perjury in that kind
of situation. Though sometimes people are charged.

I remember one case that, in retrospect, was particularly stupid.
The prosecution got a witness on the stand, and read his written
statement. Then asked, "is this your statement?" To which the
witness answered, "yes."

The statement had lies in it, so they prosecuted him for perjury.
The court of appeals held that his testifying that what had been read
to him was his statement, was true, even though the statement wasn't.
The prosecutor never got around to asking him if the statement was
true or not.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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On Thu, 15 Jun 2023 15:29:35 -0700, Rick wrote:

"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message news:XnsB0247F2DA18CEspamtraplexregiacom@130.133.4.11...

[quoted text muted]

What about lying to police? I have heard that lying to the police is
not necessarily a crime, if you're not under oath when they ask you something.

Well the police are allowed to lie to you ...

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"Leonard S." wrote in message news:8142a590-3713-4131-ae9c-f07186785af7n@googlegroups.com...

Assuming there are no signs of libel/slander, are there potentially legal >repercussions for lying while bragging on social media or in a private >communication? Example: posting/saying: "I am using my private connections
to secure a meeting with ... <e.g., Musk>", though it's just a tall dream, >and no such activity is in progress.

I think the default is that lying while not under oath is a protected form
of free speech that is always allowed unless it violates specific laws
covering libel, slander, fraud, inciting a riot or something similar.

--

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