• Has the challenge to the Texas "abortin-snitch" law become mute now tha

    From S K@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 26 16:00:33 2023
    Texas passed a law that allowed private citizens to snitch on abortion providers if the fetus was older than 12 weeks and collect $10,000 or something like that if successful.

    That law was challenged in the supreme court. has the court ruled on that yet?

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 26 20:57:53 2023
    According to S K <skpflex1@gmail.com>:
    Texas passed a law that allowed private citizens to snitch on abortion providers if the fetus was older than 12 weeks and collect $10,000 or something like that if successful.

    That law was challenged in the supreme court. has the court ruled on that yet?

    In late 2021 the court issued a quite technical decision that mostly
    denied an attempt to overturn the law. As far as I can tell there has
    been very little litigation since then, and I'm not aware of anyone
    actually collecting a bounty.

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/21-463_3ebh.pdf

    This week in a related case a district court ruled that funds that pay
    for women to travel to other states to get abortions cannot be
    criminally charged.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/24/texas-abortion-funds-ruling/

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  • From Barry Gold@21:1/5 to John Levine on Sun Feb 26 21:55:31 2023
    On 2/26/2023 8:57 PM, John Levine wrote:
    This week in a related case a district court ruled that funds that pay
    for women to travel to other states to get abortions cannot be
    criminally charged.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/24/texas-abortion-funds-ruling/

    Yes, because there is an "inherent right" to travel(*). I think it comes
    from the "privileges and immunities" clause of the 14th Amendment, but
    it might be what the Supreme Court calls a "liberty interest".

    (*) Not necessarily to travel by any particular means. You do not have a
    right to drive if you cannot pass the driving test. You do not have a
    right to get on an airliner unless (1) you have a ticket, and (2) you
    have been screened for banned weapons. But you can walk.

    --
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  • From Barry Gold@21:1/5 to John Levine on Sun Feb 26 22:25:26 2023
    On 2/26/2023 8:57 PM, John Levine wrote:
    Texas passed a law that allowed private citizens to snitch on
    abortion providers if the fetus was older than 12 weeks and collect
    $10,000 or something like that if successful.

    That law was challenged in the supreme court. has the court ruled
    on that yet?

    Yes. They upheld it. Also, the ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization effectively overturned Roe v. Wade and left states to
    regulate abortion pretty much as they pleased.

    SCOTUS also threw the concept of "standing" out the window when they
    upheld Texas's "abortion snitch" law. The old rule (promulgated by
    Justice Scalia) was that you had to have something at stake -- something
    you would gain if you won or lose if you didn't.

    I should note that anybody who tries to sue people in other states for "assisting an abortion" by providing funds to travel out of state would
    run into the problem of jurisdiction. As a general rule, Texas state
    courts won't have jurisdiction over somebody in another state -- as long
    as they stay out of Texas.

    Even if a Texas court ruled that they had jurisdiction over somebody
    like that, the winner would have to go to the other person's state
    courts to seize their assets or whatever. This is normally a slam-dunk
    -- you present your certified judgment, and the other state's court
    authorizes you to enforce it. But with something as heavily politicized
    as abortion, I suspect that courts in, e.g., California, would tell you
    to get lost.

    Which would run into the "Full faith and credit" clause (Article IV,
    section 1). Maybe SCOTUS would weigh in on that, but it might result in something similar to what Andrew Jackson is reputed to have said (but
    probably didn't) about the case of Worcester v. Georgia (1832): "John
    Marshall has made his ruling, now let him enforce it."

    Because the federal courts do not have any enforcement mechanism. They
    have to ask the US Marshall's Service (part of the DoJ) to enforce their decisions. I suspect that Biden (for instance) would be reluctant to
    tell the USMS to enforce something like that.

    This week in a related case a district court ruled that funds that pay
    for women to travel to other states to get abortions cannot be
    criminally charged.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/24/texas-abortion-funds-ruling/

    Yes, because there is an "inherent right" to travel(*). I think it comes
    from the "privileges and immunities" clause of the 14th Amendment, but
    it might be what the Supreme Court calls a "liberty interest".

    (*) Not necessarily to travel by any particular means. You do not have a
    right to drive if you cannot pass the driving test. You do not have a
    right to get on an airliner unless (1) you have a ticket, and (2) you
    have been screened for banned weapons. But you can walk.


    --
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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 27 07:07:35 2023
    "Barry Gold" wrote in message news:4aac2323-9851-4d37-600a-538de70bb836@labcats.org...

    On 2/26/2023 8:57 PM, John Levine wrote:
    This week in a related case a district court ruled that funds that pay
    for women to travel to other states to get abortions cannot be
    criminally charged.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/24/texas-abortion-funds-ruling/

    Yes, because there is an "inherent right" to travel(*). I think it comes
    from the "privileges and immunities" clause of the 14th Amendment, but it >might be what the Supreme Court calls a "liberty interest".

    (*) Not necessarily to travel by any particular means. You do not have a >right to drive if you cannot pass the driving test. You do not have a right >to get on an airliner unless (1) you have a ticket, and (2) you have been >screened for banned weapons. But you can walk.


    Interesting. So I guess that means if you know a person plans to commit a crime in another state - say bank robbery or kidnapping or murder - and you

    --

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  • From Rick@21:1/5 to Rick on Mon Feb 27 08:39:10 2023
    "Rick" wrote in message news:ttiele$39me4$1@dont-email.me...

    "Barry Gold" wrote in message >news:4aac2323-9851-4d37-600a-538de70bb836@labcats.org...

    On 2/26/2023 8:57 PM, John Levine wrote:
    This week in a related case a district court ruled that funds that pay
    for women to travel to other states to get abortions cannot be
    criminally charged.

    https://www.texastribune.org/2023/02/24/texas-abortion-funds-ruling/

    Yes, because there is an "inherent right" to travel(*). I think it comes >>from the "privileges and immunities" clause of the 14th Amendment, but it >>might be what the Supreme Court calls a "liberty interest".

    (*) Not necessarily to travel by any particular means. You do not have a >>right to drive if you cannot pass the driving test. You do not have a
    right to get on an airliner unless (1) you have a ticket, and (2) you have >>been screened for banned weapons. But you can walk.


    Interesting. So I guess that means if you know a person plans to commit a >crime in another state - say bank robbery or kidnapping or murder - and you

    --

    Guess my answer got cut. Meant to say I guess that means if you know a
    person plans to commit a crime in another state - say bank robbery or kidnapping or murder - and you give them money for it, you won't get charged
    as an accessory before the fact?

    --

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  • From John Levine@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 27 10:59:21 2023
    According to Rick <rick@nospam.com>:
    Guess my answer got cut. Meant to say I guess that means if you know a >person plans to commit a crime in another state - say bank robbery or >kidnapping or murder - and you give them money for it, you won't get charged >as an accessory before the fact?

    Um, there is an obvious difference. Those are all illegal in the other
    state. Abortion isn't.

    It's more like you live in California where foie gras is illegal
    (evidently due to people who imagine that ducks are people) and you
    give a friend money for a foie gras dinner in Las Vegas. Nothing illegal
    about that.





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    Regards,
    John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
    Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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