Filing for unclaimed property, for my brother.

The online form says "Claimant Information - You Are the Claimant "
On an earlier screen I had to click on "I am the claimant".

If I fill in his name, his address, his phone number, his email address,
his SSN, his birthday, so that the check gets mailed to him, am I in
trouble because I'm not actually the claimant? Am I not just a
secretary who would be allowed to do this for her boss?

Florida.

My brother is 83 and he's losing interest in things. And he's
forgetting things. Plus he always disliked computers, and he has bigger
things that are not getting done quick enough.


(4 of the 5 states I've looked at don't say how much money is involved
It's probably a small amount but there is a teeny tiny chance it's a
large amount that would really matter to my brother. )

-----

Separate question. A check for a very large amount is missing that he
wrote on his bank 4 years, 9 months ago. But he doesn't remember what
bank he was using for checking then. Is there a simple way, or any way,
to find out where his account was 5 years ago. Especially a way that I
could do without him, because he doesn't have much interest in such
things. He would still get the money. :-)

(He says he sent it to me, to deposit in his account, when I was out of
town for 3 months. He didn't tell me it was coming and I didn't know
about it until 3 months ago. I have a slot in my door for mail and
there is a big pile of mail when I come home. I may have seen it, but I
myself am not very organized and it might be somewhere in my house.
Can't find it. That would be okay and that is most likely. The
problem is the very small chance it was lost or stolen and cashed by a
thief or someone. AIUI, banks keep records of cashed checks and
monthly statements for 5 years by law, but maybe no longer. So I have
to find this bank before the 5 years are up in under 3 months.)


--
I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
I am not a lawyer.

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On 2/20/2023 8:36 PM, micky wrote:

Filing for unclaimed property, for my brother.

The online form says "Claimant Information - You Are the Claimant "
On an earlier screen I had to click on "I am the claimant".

If I fill in his name, his address, his phone number, his email address,
his SSN, his birthday, so that the check gets mailed to him, am I in
trouble because I'm not actually the claimant? Am I not just a
secretary who would be allowed to do this for her boss?

Florida.

My brother is 83 and he's losing interest in things. And he's
forgetting things. Plus he always disliked computers, and he has bigger things that are not getting done quick enough.

(4 of the 5 states I've looked at don't say how much money is involved
It's probably a small amount but there is a teeny tiny chance it's a
large amount that would really matter to my brother. )

-----

Separate question. A check for a very large amount is missing that he wrote on his bank 4 years, 9 months ago. But he doesn't remember what
bank he was using for checking then. Is there a simple way, or any way,
to find out where his account was 5 years ago. Especially a way that I could do without him, because he doesn't have much interest in such
things. He would still get the money. :-)

(He says he sent it to me, to deposit in his account, when I was out of
town for 3 months. He didn't tell me it was coming and I didn't know
about it until 3 months ago. I have a slot in my door for mail and
there is a big pile of mail when I come home. I may have seen it, but I myself am not very organized and it might be somewhere in my house.
Can't find it. That would be okay and that is most likely. The
problem is the very small chance it was lost or stolen and cashed by a
thief or someone. AIUI, banks keep records of cashed checks and
monthly statements for 5 years by law, but maybe no longer. So I have
to find this bank before the 5 years are up in under 3 months.)

Probably the most straightforward (though tedious) method is to check
the Unclaimed property websites for all the states he's ever lived in.
After some time -- depending on the laws of that state -- inactive
accounts "escheat" to the state and can be recovered by filling out a
suitable form.

If your brother can still sign his name, you could fill in the form and
give it to him to sign. The other (more complicated) option for somebody
who cannot manage his own affairs is to go to court, have him declared incompetent and you as his guardian.


--
I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

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On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 12:36:29 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:

Filing for unclaimed property, for my brother.

The online form says "Claimant Information - You Are the Claimant "
On an earlier screen I had to click on "I am the claimant".

If I fill in his name, his address, his phone number, his email address,
his SSN, his birthday, so that the check gets mailed to him, am I in
trouble because I'm not actually the claimant? Am I not just a
secretary who would be allowed to do this for her boss?

Florida.

My brother is 83 and he's losing interest in things. And he's
forgetting things. Plus he always disliked computers, and he has bigger things that are not getting done quick enough.

(4 of the 5 states I've looked at don't say how much money is involved
It's probably a small amount but there is a teeny tiny chance it's a
large amount that would really matter to my brother. )

-----

Separate question. A check for a very large amount is missing that he
wrote on his bank 4 years, 9 months ago. But he doesn't remember what
bank he was using for checking then. Is there a simple way, or any way,
to find out where his account was 5 years ago. Especially a way that I
could do without him, because he doesn't have much interest in such
things. He would still get the money. :-)

(He says he sent it to me, to deposit in his account, when I was out of
town for 3 months. He didn't tell me it was coming and I didn't know
about it until 3 months ago. I have a slot in my door for mail and
there is a big pile of mail when I come home. I may have seen it, but I myself am not very organized and it might be somewhere in my house.
Can't find it. That would be okay and that is most likely. The
problem is the very small chance it was lost or stolen and cashed by a
thief or someone. AIUI, banks keep records of cashed checks and
monthly statements for 5 years by law, but maybe no longer. So I have
to find this bank before the 5 years are up in under 3 months.)

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6 months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no one
else has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third party.

I don't know how you might find out what bank he was using then, other than to go to each bank in your city and ask. It would help if you had a notarized power of attorney. Otherwise, they will not talk to you about it. If your brother doesn't care
about this, there's no reason for him to not sign a power of attorney. It should be written so that this power only extends to identifying his bank accounts and possibly accessing the funds if he doesn't care. But, again, if it's been five years, the
bank would have closed the account and turned the funds over to the state. They do try to contact the owner first, but ultimately, that's what happens.

In Maryland, the state has a web page for this. If you have your brother's power of attorney in this matter, I believe this is the same as being your brother for the purpose of finding information and obtaining the funds.

Good luck.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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On 2/24/2023 9:10 PM, Lorem Ipsum wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6 months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no

one else has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third party.

You're assuming that banks actually look at checks when they are
deposited (e.g., via an ATM). Typically they will scan the check and
shred the original. This is very convenient for the banking system,
because they don't need to move the physical check to the maker's bank.
The banking system in the US assumes that checks will be cleared in a
single night, so banks used to ship physical checks to clearing houses,
which would distribute them to the originating bank.

Now... The image of a large check that is received at a bank where there
isn't enough money to cover it becomes an abnormality. The maker's bank
will probably hit the account with a "NSF fee", and whole transaction
will be done (probably overnight, entirely by computers).

Probably the first person to notice this will be the depositor, who will
get a "bounce" notice from his bank. The maker might find out about it
in his next monthly statement -- as a fee deducted from his account.

Lessee: (stops to log in to my bank) I can get statements back seven
years. I guess that's the effective limit.

Things get complicated when a check isn't deposited/cashed within a
reasonable period of time. The maker could file a "stop payment' order
with his bank, but the banks don't guarantee that it will be effective.
If you trust the payee, you write another check, file a stop order, and
hope for the best.

If I don't trust the payee and the check is big enough that it's going
to cause you to bounce checks if it gets cashed twice, I think the only
thing to do is to open a new account, move your money there leaving only
enough to cover the other outstanding checks. Once those have cleared,
close the old account. Then you can write a new check -- if the payee
finds and deposits the old check, he'll get hit with a bounce fee, and
maybe your bank will try to do the same to you, but you point out that
the account was closed.

Note: my father used to run a check cashing business. It's a good way to
make money *if* you have a good sense of who you can trust and who you
can't. You should have seen the place on a Friday afternoon. I used to
help out there in the 70s. I decided to keep track of what I was doing
(marks on a sheet of paper every time I cashed one). I averaged 4 checks
a minute, and I wasn't as experienced as the other employees. On a
Friday afternoon we ran five "windows" from 4-5:30PM


--
I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've
written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no
way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6
months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no one else
has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to
find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third
party.

Actually that's incorrect. After six months a bank is no longer
required to accept/cash a check. But it is allowed to. There is no prohibition against a bank accepting a check even much older than six
months.

--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com


--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

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"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message news:XnsAFB6603A71FD3avocatstuyahoofr@130.133.4.11...

Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've
written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no
way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6
months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no one else
has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to
find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third
party.

Actually that's incorrect. After six months a bank is no longer
required to accept/cash a check. But it is allowed to. There is no >prohibition against a bank accepting a check even much older than six
months.

It's also a bit misleading to say "When you write a check from your check
book, no one knows you've written it other than a person with the check." Nowadays many if not most people don't write physical checks but use their bank's online bill pay service for check generation. These online checks
are processed and sent out by the bank, so there would be an actual record
that the check was issued.

--

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 4:55:15 PM UTC-4, Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:

Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've
written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no
way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6
months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no one else
has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to
find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third
party.

Actually that's incorrect. After six months a bank is no longer
required to accept/cash a check. But it is allowed to. There is no prohibition against a bank accepting a check even much older than six
months.

They don't, because they don't want to be involved in a situation like what is being described here. Everyone does this, so no one is going to stick their necks out.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 12:38:28 PM UTC-4, Barry Gold wrote:

On 2/24/2023 9:10 PM, Lorem Ipsum wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6 months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no one

else has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third party.

You're assuming that banks actually look at checks when they are
deposited (e.g., via an ATM).

Yes, I am assuming, because that is what happens. Someone has to look at the check to verify any number of details. I've had checks refused because they were stale, even though deposited electronically. The bank that hosts the account is not going to
cash the check if it is not valid, because they are responsible if it is not.

Typically they will scan the check and
shred the original. This is very convenient for the banking system,
because they don't need to move the physical check to the maker's bank.
The banking system in the US assumes that checks will be cleared in a
single night, so banks used to ship physical checks to clearing houses,
which would distribute them to the originating bank.

None of which is relevant and happens *after* the check has been received for deposit and validated.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 8:40:57 PM UTC-4, Rick wrote:

"Stuart O. Bronstein" wrote in message news:XnsAFB6603A71FD3...@130.133.4.11...

Lorem Ipsum <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've
written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no
way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6
months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no one else
has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to
find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third
party.

Actually that's incorrect. After six months a bank is no longer
required to accept/cash a check. But it is allowed to. There is no >prohibition against a bank accepting a check even much older than six >months.

It's also a bit misleading to say "When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've written it other than a person with the check." Nowadays many if not most people don't write physical checks but use their bank's online bill pay service for check generation. These online checks
are processed and sent out by the bank, so there would be an actual record that the check was issued.

Very seldom the bank. They typically use a service for this, so it is a third party who actually writes those checks. The bank has a record that the money was sent to the service, but nothing about the check themselves. I know, because I've been
caught in the finger pointing over when a check actually went out the door and where it was at the moment, including if it had cleared or not! What a muck up that was.

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In misc.legal.moderated, on Sun, 26 Feb 2023 16:02:00 -0800 (PST), Lorem
Ipsum <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 12:38:28 PM UTC-4, Barry Gold wrote:

On 2/24/2023 9:10 PM, Lorem Ipsum wrote:

When you write a check from your check book, no one knows you've written it other than a person with the check. The bank has no way of knowing you've written it. Since the check is more than 6 months old, it is stale, and can not be cashed. If no

one else has cashed it, it can't be cashed at this point, so no reason to find it, other than to know it was never cashed by some third party.

You're assuming that banks actually look at checks when they are
deposited (e.g., via an ATM).

Yes, I am assuming, because that is what happens. Someone has to look at the check to verify any number of details. I've had checks refused because they were stale, even though deposited electronically. The bank that hosts the account is not going to

cash the check if it is not valid, because they are responsible if it is not.

Around 1980, when I presume people were much more involved in check
processing than now, I lived in Brooklyn and we were dissatisfied with
the landlord. We had a tenants meeting and everyone there gave checks
for $10 or maybe 20 with which we were going to hire a lawyer.

Later, we reached a compromise and I returned the checks to everyone,
having them all sign one big receipt.

A couple days later a neighbor called and apparently one of the checks
was not returned, and when her monthly bank statement came in the mail,
she saw that it was cashed.

By the time I got to her apartment, she and other neighbors (accountants
fwiw) had figured out that AFTER I returned the check to Mrs. Hussey,
she had enclosed it when she paid her bill to Abraham & Strauss, the big department store in Brooklyn. They had accepted it, deposited it, and
credited it to her account, and the bank paid it to them, even though
the check was clearly written to the 420 Clinton Tenants Association,
not Abraham & Strauss.

--
I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
I am not a lawyer.

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Thanks to all of you for your advice. This is what has happened so far.

In misc.legal.moderated, on Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:36:25 -0800 (PST), micky <misc07@fmguy.com> wrote:

Filing for unclaimed property, for my brother.

The online form says "Claimant Information - You Are the Claimant "
On an earlier screen I had to click on "I am the claimant".

If I fill in his name, his address, his phone number, his email address,
his SSN, his birthday, so that the check gets mailed to him, am I in
trouble because I'm not actually the claimant? Am I not just a
secretary who would be allowed to do this for her boss?

Florida.

I decided to fill it out as if I were he, but further into the process,
it asked for more info. It wanted his email address and phone number,
and I considered giving mine, so I'd know what was happening, but I
could imagine them finding out and being annoyed. It also wanted a
photocopy of his driver's license or similar, and he'd have to do that.

So I gave the computer his email and mailing addresses and now it's up
to him. He has a printer/copier that he often forgets how to work, but
he can probably get this done. And at the end they told me how much it
was, it was a refund from Best Buy for $30, so $30 is real money but
it's not a fortune either. (Until he retired, my brother made a lot
more money than I did, but he spent more too.)

My brother is 83 and he's losing interest in things. And he's
forgetting things. Plus he always disliked computers, and he has bigger >things that are not getting done quick enough.

(4 of the 5 states I've looked at don't say how much money is involved
It's probably a small amount but there is a teeny tiny chance it's a
large amount that would really matter to my brother. )

One reason to pursue the unclaimed money was the teeny chance that
somehow it was related to the missing $450,000 check, and although the unclaimed check is only for $30, surprisingly, it is related to the
missing check because the Unclaimed office also told me that Chase Bank
had the money. It didn't say if this was a Chase credit card or
checking account, but this might be the missing checking account. I hope
so.

BTW, my brother had to change checking accounts because the prior bank
kicked him out. They said he had too much cash in the account!!!!! For
some reason this was an account he shared with his wife AND his grown
step-son, who lives 1000 miles from them and who has a variety of
business endeavors. I don't think he's a drug dealer/importer, but I
think the bank thought he was.

Separate question. A check for a very large amount is missing that he >wrote on his bank 4 years, 9 months ago. But he doesn't remember what
bank he was using for checking then. Is there a simple way, or any way,
to find out where his account was 5 years ago. Especially a way that I >could do without him, because he doesn't have much interest in such
things. He would still get the money. :-)

Today I called the Chase Bank and I didn't expect them to tell me
anything, but I thought they could take my brother's information, name,
SSN, address and phone number when he had the account, and find his
records, and email HIM at the email address he had already given them
years ago to tell him his account number, and from that he could see if
the large check he sent me was ever cashed.

I don't see any security issue here -- I thought it was a reasonable
plan -- but the one guy I talked to said they would not do this, unless
I got my brother on the phone. Apparently they think they can verify
his identity on the phone by asking him questions. That might happen,
and he also suggested my brother could go into a branch with his
driver's license. Some days he's feeling pretty good, so that might
happen.

MOST importantly maybe, he said that Chase kept copies of checks etc.
for 7 years, not the 5 that aiui the law requires, so that gives me 2
years instead of just 3 months to resolve this.

I think the chances the check was lost in the mail/stolen and then
cashed by the thief are less than 1 in a 100. Most postal employees are honest. OTOH, it would be just like my brother, who mails a big check
without telling me it's coming, when other people would have arranged a
wire transfer, to fail to wrap the check in paper so it can be seen
through the envelope.

But then if stolen, no postal employee is going to be able to cash a
$450,000 check himself. He would need a professional fence, right? How
hard is it to find someone like that?

And of course all of this would have happened the summer of 2018.

My brother needs the money but still would probably just take my word
that the check is likely here, however my sister in law is involved too.
She's penny-wise and pound-foolish. Did her own flowers for their
wedding to save money, and then 2 years ago signed a contract to sell
their condo and then refused to close because she heard someone with a
similar apartment got more money for it. Of course the buyer sued and
she, meaning my brother, had to settle for a lower sale price plus
paying for both sides' lawyers, a loss of $65,000.

On another occasion several years ago, she bought a restaurant with an
upstairs apartment on contract, invested ~100,000 in remodeling before
she had full title and then the seller wanted it back. (Maybe she missed
a payment or maybe he made it look like she did. How often do sellers
do that?) Who buys real estate on time except for Blacks in Chicago
where no mortgage company will give them a mortgage no matter how good a
job they've held or how long they've held it. (Chicago in the 50's -
60's***, and maybe everywhere else that had redlining.) She didn't lose
the whole 100,000 but I'm sure he held her up for a few thousand. Later
she let the C of A expire and couldn't renew it without expensive
improvements, and iirc they tore down the whole building.

She also bought two businesses, 500 miles away and 1000 miles away. How
did she plan to run them?

All of this has meant that my brother, who is an M.D. and modest
spender, and with a different wife would have loads of money, is
planning to go back to work at age 83. (He also wants to be an
inspiration for Joe Biden.)

But this check she will be diligent about, I'm pretty sure. So I'm glad
I have two more years to either find it in my house or get the
information from the bank.

Tnx again.



*** https://www.npr.org/local/309/2019/05/30/728122642/contract-buying-robbed-black-families-in-chicago-of-billions
https://www.investopedia.com/contract-buyers-league-5101680
And: The infamous practice of contract selling is back in Chicago
Wall Street-backed firms are duping would-be homebuyers https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics/the-infamous-practice-of-contract-selling-is-back-in-chicago/
I haven't read much of this yet. It's 6 years old and I don't know how
common it is. In the 50's and 60's I think it was just about universal, because there was no way blacks could buy a home in many/most white
n'hoods. They needed a straw buyer, etc.

(He says he sent it to me, to deposit in his account, when I was out of
town for 3 months. He didn't tell me it was coming and I didn't know
about it until 3 months ago. I have a slot in my door for mail and
there is a big pile of mail when I come home. I may have seen it, but I >myself am not very organized and it might be somewhere in my house.
Can't find it. That would be okay and that is most likely. The
problem is the very small chance it was lost or stolen and cashed by a
thief or someone. AIUI, banks keep records of cashed checks and
monthly statements for 5 years by law, but maybe no longer. So I have
to find this bank before the 5 years are up in under 3 months.)

--
I think you can tell, but just to be sure:
I am not a lawyer.

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