What's the law regarding song composers and
property rights? I'm ignorant of this whole area.

I know there's ASCAP and BMI, but don't know how they
operate. Like, if a radio station plays a song, they have
to pay a fee... to who, exactly? Or if a band covers someone
else's song, how does it work? Who negotiates the fees?
If Mick Jagger wants to sing "Yesterday", does Paul
Mcartney have the right of veto?

We might consider recording, broadcasting, and performance
separately.

And what about printed sheets of music? Copyright,
same as any published work?

Then there are questions of distributor, publisher, and
label, what are the differences? Like, Bob Dylan sold his
catalog for $100 million. What does that mean, exactly?
What does the buyer possess, when he drives off the lot?

Also the issue of 'fair use', abused by the digital
crowd, with their sampling.

I don't have a specific question, I have a bunch of questions -

_
Rich

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RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> wrote:

What's the law regarding song composers and
property rights? I'm ignorant of this whole area.

I know there's ASCAP and BMI, but don't know how they
operate. Like, if a radio station plays a song, they have
to pay a fee... to who, exactly? Or if a band covers someone
else's song, how does it work? Who negotiates the fees?
If Mick Jagger wants to sing "Yesterday", does Paul
Mcartney have the right of veto?

We might consider recording, broadcasting, and performance
separately.

And what about printed sheets of music? Copyright,
same as any published work?

Then there are questions of distributor, publisher, and
label, what are the differences? Like, Bob Dylan sold his
catalog for $100 million. What does that mean, exactly?
What does the buyer possess, when he drives off the lot?

Also the issue of 'fair use', abused by the digital
crowd, with their sampling.

I don't have a specific question, I have a bunch of questions -

This is a huge topic with entire books written on even individual
parts of it. A good place to start is with some books published by
self-help legal publisher Nolo Press:

https://www.nolo.com/search?query=music&sub=www


--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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On 12/28/2022 8:48 PM, RichD wrote:

What's the law regarding song composers and
property rights? I'm ignorant of this whole area.

I know there's ASCAP and BMI, but don't know how they
operate. Like, if a radio station plays a song, they have
to pay a fee... to who, exactly? Or if a band covers someone
else's song, how does it work? Who negotiates the fees?
If Mick Jagger wants to sing "Yesterday", does Paul
Mcartney have the right of veto?

Those fees are fixed but inflation-adjusted. If you search for "Harry
Fox Agency" you will find a place where you can pay for a "mechanical
license". Many sorts of "mechanical license" are compulsory under US
Copyright law.

Oversimplification: once a musical piece has been recorded in any common
format (vinyl, CD, DVD, MP3), then anybody else can record that song and
pay that fee (per copy made for sale/mass distribution).

So if Mick Jagger wants to record "Yesterday," he will pay the license
fee, probably through an intermediary like ASCAP, BMI, or Harry Fox
agency, which will then take a small cut and send the rest on to McCartney.

At the moment this license fee is 9.1 cents per composition, or 1.75
cents per minute, whichever is more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_license

A variant of this applies to public performances. Any business that
charges admission and has people performing other people's music must
pay a yearly fee, which is determined by how many people that business
can seat.

If you are going to perform in such a venue, the manager (or whoever
hires you) will inform you whether they hold such a license or not. If
they don't, you must perform only pieces that you created.

We might consider recording, broadcasting, and performance
separately.

And what about printed sheets of music? Copyright,
same as any published work?

Printed sheet music falls under the same rules as books, pamphlets,
magazines, movies, TV shows, etc.

Then there are questions of distributor, publisher, and
label, what are the differences? Like, Bob Dylan sold his
catalog for $100 million. What does that mean, exactly?
What does the buyer possess, when he drives off the lot?

If somebody bought Bob Dylan's catalog, he now holds all the rights that
Dylan formerly had, except one: "moral rights". The new owner is not
allowed to claim that he wrote any of those songs. Actual authorship is
a moral right and is not transferable. But the new owner can create and
sell vinyl records, CDs, MP3s or license those rights, re-record any
songs or license the right to record or perform those songs, just as if
he were Bob Dylan.

Also the issue of 'fair use', abused by the digital
crowd, with their sampling.

"Fair use" is something that lawyers are still arguing about and
probably will be until the heat death of the universe. The test for fair
use has four factors, and there is no definitive formula for balancing
these factors.

WIYF: Wikipedia is your friend.




--
I do so have a memory. It's backed up on DVD... somewhere...

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According to RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>:

What's the law regarding song composers and
property rights? I'm ignorant of this whole area.

It is incredibly complicated. For an overview I suggest
this recorded lecture from the Harvard CopyrightX online course:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=2GGE_ToREPw&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE

Listen to it, then if you have more specific questions maybe we
can help puzzle it out.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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"Barry Gold" wrote in message news:tojei9$2c9ks$2@dont-email.me...

On 12/28/2022 8:48 PM, RichD wrote:

What's the law regarding song composers and
property rights? I'm ignorant of this whole area.

I know there's ASCAP and BMI, but don't know how they
operate. Like, if a radio station plays a song, they have
to pay a fee... to who, exactly? Or if a band covers someone
else's song, how does it work? Who negotiates the fees?
If Mick Jagger wants to sing "Yesterday", does Paul
Mcartney have the right of veto?

Those fees are fixed but inflation-adjusted. If you search for "Harry Fox >Agency" you will find a place where you can pay for a "mechanical license". >Many sorts of "mechanical license" are compulsory under US Copyright law.

Oversimplification: once a musical piece has been recorded in any common >format (vinyl, CD, DVD, MP3), then anybody else can record that song and
pay that fee (per copy made for sale/mass distribution).

So if Mick Jagger wants to record "Yesterday," he will pay the license fee, >probably through an intermediary like ASCAP, BMI, or Harry Fox agency,
which will then take a small cut and send the rest on to McCartney.

Actually, McCartney signed away his rights to "Yesterday" years ago when he sold his catalog to Michael Jackson. After MJ's death, his estate sold the catalog to Sony who owned the full catalog until 2017 when McCartney successfully sued under US copyright law to regain the rights to his
earliest recordings (but not including "Yesterday"). He is expected to
regain rights to his full catalog by 2026.

https://www.musicalmum.com/who-owns-the-beatles-music/

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According to Barry Gold <bgold@labcats.org>:

A variant of this applies to public performances. Any business that
charges admission and has people performing other people's music must
pay a yearly fee, which is determined by how many people that business
can seat.

Even if you don't charge an admission fee, you can have license problems.
There is a carveout for performances in church services but I think that
is the only one.

If somebody bought Bob Dylan's catalog, he now holds all the rights that >Dylan formerly had, except one: "moral rights". The new owner is not
allowed to claim that he wrote any of those songs. Actual authorship is
a moral right and is not transferable. ...

The US does not recognize moral rights other than for a narrow set of
visual art works. US copyright law is about who gets paid and who can
tell you not to use material, not about attribution. It's different in
other countries. The Berne convention has a section on moral rights
(added by Mussolini in a 1920s revision of the treaty at a conference
in Rome) but the US famously ignores it.

I suppose that if you license a work, the license might say something
about attribution. It'd be an interesting question if you put your
name on a public domain work, e.g. "Happy Birthday to you, by Barry
Gold." It is not obvious to me who would have standing to complain.
Maybe someone who bought a copy could claim it's false advertising,
they expected an exciting new birthday song, but no, it's the same old
one we've been singing for a century.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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On December 29, Barry Gold wrote:

What's the law regarding song composers and
property rights?
I know there's ASCAP and BMI, but don't know how they
operate. Like, if a radio station plays a song, they have
to pay a fee... to who, exactly? Or if a band covers someone
else's song, how does it work? Who negotiates the fees?

Those fees are fixed but inflation-adjusted. If you search for "Harry
Fox Agency" you will find a place where you can pay for a "mechanical license". Many sorts of "mechanical license" are compulsory under US Copyright law.
At the moment this license fee is 9.1 cents per composition, or 1.75
cents per minute, whichever is more. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_license
A variant of this applies to public performances. Any business that
charges admission and has people performing other people's music must
pay a yearly fee, which is determined by how many people that business
can seat.

Presumably this information is public domain. Occasionally the question arises,
which musicians have highest net worth? Paul Mcartney, Elton John, and Michael Jackson usually top the list. There's a history of these fees, that's where the
estimates come from?

--
Rich

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Barry Gold <bgold@labcats.org> wrote:

Great explanation of copyrights and such. But it brings up something I"ve
been meaning to ask about. When looked up some copyright info in the
USCode I was startled to see the "Harry Fox Agency" named. Are there any
other examples where the USCode names a specific business to handle things
like this?

/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--

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According to RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com>:

A variant of this applies to public performances. Any business that
charges admission and has people performing other people's music must
pay a yearly fee, which is determined by how many people that business
can seat.

Presumably this information is public domain.

No, why would it be? While the price of a mechanical license for
recordings is set by law, anything other than that is entirely
negotiable.

Occasionally the question arises,
which musicians have highest net worth? Paul Mcartney, Elton John, and Michael
Jackson usually top the list. There's a history of these fees, that's where the
estimates come from?

Same place as any other estimates of rich people, count the visible
assets and make some informed guesses. In a few famous cases like the
Beatles and Bob Dylan, the artists have sold their stream of rights
payments for a large fixed fee.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/bob-dyan-sells-masters-sony-music-1289763/

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:

Barry Gold <bgold@labcats.org> wrote:

Great explanation of copyrights and such. But it brings up
something I"ve been meaning to ask about. When looked up some
copyright info in the USCode I was startled to see the "Harry Fox
Agency" named. Are there any other examples where the USCode
names a specific business to handle things like this?

Where did you find that? I couldn't. I saw more than 100 references
toi The Harry Fox Agency in committee reports, annotations and the
like, but not in the text of a statute.


--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

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"Stuart O. Bronstein" <spamtrap@lexregia.com> wrote:

} Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
} > Barry Gold <bgold@labcats.org> wrote:
} >
} > Great explanation of copyrights and such. But it brings up
} > something I"ve been meaning to ask about. When looked up some
} > copyright info in the USCode I was startled to see the "Harry Fox
} > Agency" named. Are there any other examples where the USCode
} > names a specific business to handle things like this?
}
} Where did you find that? I couldn't. I saw more than 100 references
} toi The Harry Fox Agency in committee reports, annotations and the
} like, but not in the text of a statute.

Hmm.. I was sure I ran across that a few years ago when I was doing some research on the copyright/fair use statutes.. But I can't find it now, so
I must've seen the agency mentioned somewhere else... sorry

/B\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--

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