• In Murr V. Wisconsin, SCOTUS Deals Another Blow To The Fifth Amendment

    From TRUMP!@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 25 02:34:43 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    A number of sane people around the commentariat have been up in
    arms over the recent decision handed down by the Supreme Court
    in Murr v. Wisconsin. And with very, very good reason. We’ve
    dealt with this case here before as it’s played out through the
    lower courts, but as a refresher it deals with the situation
    encountered by Donna Murr and her siblings in Wisconsin. The
    family owned two small parcels of land along the St. Croix
    River. They had a cabin on one of the lots and the adjoining
    property was left vacant as an investment. But when they
    attempted to finally sell the vacant lot in 2004 they learned
    that the state had changed the rules on them, making it
    impossible to sell the land to anyone other than the county
    unless they combined the properties and relinquished the entire
    package.

    SEE ALSO: Remember that California single payer plan? Yeah…
    never mind.

    The property in question had been valued at $400K. The county –
    the only entity legally entitled to buy it – offered them $40K.

    Because the state, through changes in laws which did not apply
    when the family acquired the land, had completely gutted its
    worth, the Murr family sued to be properly compensated under the
    Takings Clause. With this week’s decision, those hopes are
    dashed. Eric Boehm at Reason explains what this is doing to the
    rights of property owners.

    When governments issue regulations that undermine the value of
    property, bureaucrats don’t necessarily have to compensate
    property holders, the Supreme Court ruled Friday…

    The ruling could have implications that go well beyond the 2.5
    acres of land in Wisconsin.

    Several western states filed amicus briefs in the case on behalf
    of the Murr family (as did the Reason Foundation, which
    publishes this blog). Though states like Nevada and Arizona did
    not have a direct interest in the Murrs’ ability to sell their
    vacant land, they saw the case as having important implications
    for conflicts over federal lands.

    Many state governments own contiguous lots and large bodies of
    water near areas owned by the federal government (military
    bases, national parks, etc). If those government bodies are
    allowed to merge contiguous lots for regulatory purposes, the
    federal government could impose severe restrictions on state
    land and wouldn’t have to pay consequences, warned Ilya Somin, a
    professor of law at George Mason University who authored the
    amicus brief on behalf of those western states.

    What we are seeing here is a continuation of what I still
    maintain is possible the worst ruling from the Supreme Court in
    the history of the nation, Kelo v. City of New London. That was
    the dark day when the Supremes ruled that the idea of “public
    use” in the Takings Clause could be reinterpreted into a Reverse
    Robin Hood scenario by defining it as the far more ambiguous
    “public benefit.” When that case was decided in 2005 the
    principal dissent was written by O’Connor, but in a separate
    dissent, Associate Justice Clarence Thomas wrote the following:

    Something has gone seriously awry with this Court’s
    interpretation of the Constitution. Though citizens are safe
    from the government in their homes, the homes themselves are not.

    This ruling is yet another weakening of the Takings Clause. And
    the reason I say this is a continuation of Kelo is that you need
    only look at who is voting on these rulings. In Kelo, the 5-4
    decision was delivered by Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg and Breyer
    with the tie-breaking vote cast by Kennedy. Now, In Murr, the 5-
    3 decision came from Breyer, Ginsberg, Kagan, (who replaced
    Stevens under Obama) and Sotomayor (who replaced Souter under
    Obama) with both the tie-breaking decision and the written
    opinion coming once again from Kennedy. Anyone seeing a pattern
    here?

    It was 5-3 because Gorsuch wasn’t involved with the original
    hearing and didn’t vote. But even if he had, the Fifth Amendment
    still would have lost 5-4 yet again. It’s not enough just to
    keep hold of the seat that Justice Scalia occupied.

    Kennedy is unreliable in too many instances when given a choice
    between more power for the government over the individual or
    less. The other four liberals are lost causes, apparently never
    having seen a case of bigger government which they couldn’t
    celebrate. We need a real majority on the Supreme Court with
    conservative, small government principles in their hearts or
    these erosions of fundamental rights will continue.

    TAGS:FIFTH AMENDMENTKELOREASONSCOTUSTAKINGS CLAUSEWISCONSIN
    SHARE ON FACEBOOK SHARE ON TWITTER

    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/24/murr-v-wisconsin-scotus- deals-another-blow-fifth-amendment/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From David Hartung@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 25 07:40:26 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    On 06/24/2017 06:34 PM, TRUMP! wrote:

    It was 5-3 because Gorsuch wasn’t involved with the original
    hearing and didn’t vote. But even if he had, the Fifth Amendment
    still would have lost 5-4 yet again. It’s not enough just to
    keep hold of the seat that Justice Scalia occupied.

    Kennedy is unreliable in too many instances when given a choice
    between more power for the government over the individual or
    less. The other four liberals are lost causes, apparently never
    having seen a case of bigger government which they couldn’t
    celebrate. We need a real majority on the Supreme Court with
    conservative, small government principles in their hearts or
    these erosions of fundamental rights will continue.

    TAGS:FIFTH AMENDMENTKELOREASONSCOTUSTAKINGS CLAUSEWISCONSIN
    SHARE ON FACEBOOK SHARE ON TWITTER

    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/24/murr-v-wisconsin-scotus- deals-another-blow-fifth-amendment/

    The unfortunate reality is that five of the nine justices of the Supreme
    Court believe that the words of the Constitution change in meaning,
    depending upon what they wish those words to say.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From #BeamMeUpScotty@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 25 13:31:20 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    On 06/24/2017 08:34 PM, TRUMP! wrote:
    A number of sane people around the commentariat have been up in
    arms over the recent decision handed down by the Supreme Court
    in Murr v. Wisconsin. And with very, very good reason. We’ve
    dealt with this case here before as it’s played out through the
    lower courts, but as a refresher it deals with the situation
    encountered by Donna Murr and her siblings in Wisconsin. The
    family owned two small parcels of land along the St. Croix
    River. They had a cabin on one of the lots and the adjoining
    property was left vacant as an investment. But when they
    attempted to finally sell the vacant lot in 2004 they learned
    that the state had changed the rules on them, making it
    impossible to sell the land to anyone other than the county
    unless they combined the properties and relinquished the entire
    package.

    SEE ALSO: Remember that California single payer plan? Yeah…
    never mind.

    The property in question had been valued at $400K. The county –
    the only entity legally entitled to buy it – offered them $40K.

    Because the state, through changes in laws which did not apply
    when the family acquired the land, had completely gutted its
    worth, the Murr family sued to be properly compensated under the
    Takings Clause. With this week’s decision, those hopes are
    dashed. Eric Boehm at Reason explains what this is doing to the
    rights of property owners.

    When governments issue regulations that undermine the value of
    property, bureaucrats don’t necessarily have to compensate
    property holders, the Supreme Court ruled Friday…

    To take the property required imminent domain....

    To take the value of it, is to take the property. Either way the State confiscated $360,000 worth of property and/or avoided paying fair value.

    Another scam.

    They may have invested in that land to sell and send a kid to
    college..... Or for their retirement, can the Government raid your
    retirement fund the way they just raided this families investment? Can
    the State pass a law to make your retirement fund almost worthless and
    only be sold to the Government?

    --
    That's Karma

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rudy Canoza@21:1/5 to David Hartung on Sun Jun 25 11:49:07 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    On 6/25/2017 6:40 AM, David Hartung wrote:
    On 06/24/2017 06:34 PM, TRUMP! wrote:

    It was 5-3 because Gorsuch wasn’t involved with the original
    hearing and didn’t vote. But even if he had, the Fifth Amendment
    still would have lost 5-4 yet again. It’s not enough just to
    keep hold of the seat that Justice Scalia occupied.

    Kennedy is unreliable in too many instances when given a choice
    between more power for the government over the individual or
    less. The other four liberals are lost causes, apparently never
    having seen a case of bigger government which they couldn’t
    celebrate. We need a real majority on the Supreme Court with
    conservative, small government principles in their hearts or
    these erosions of fundamental rights will continue.

    TAGS:FIFTH AMENDMENTKELOREASONSCOTUSTAKINGS CLAUSEWISCONSIN
    SHARE ON FACEBOOK SHARE ON TWITTER

    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/06/24/murr-v-wisconsin-scotus-
    deals-another-blow-fifth-amendment/

    The unfortunate reality is that five of the nine justices of the Supreme Court believe that the words of the Constitution change in meaning,
    depending upon what they wish those words to say.

    That's wrong, Pastor Gantry. Four of the nine believe the words mean
    something different from what you believe them to mean, and on occasion
    a fifth justice sides with them.

    You do not know what the words of the Constitution mean.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jim@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 25 15:14:26 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    To take the property required imminent domain....

    To take the value of it, is to take the property. Either way the State confiscated $360,000 worth of property and/or avoided paying fair value.

    If BMUS writes it you know its a lie.

    First of all, the state isn't involved other than
    providing the legal system in which a local govt
    can operate and disputes can be resolved.

    Second, the local govt is not violating the Constitution
    by having zoning laws and restrictions on development and land
    use. Do you think that if farmer Jones decides that 10 acres of
    his land would be worth $10 million if the county would allow
    it to be zoned for a casino, but since the county zoning laws
    only allows it to be used for agriculture that therefore the county
    owes him the difference?

    Third, They can sell the property for whatever the market
    will pay. They just aren't allowed to subdivide and sell
    off parcels. They aren't being treated any different
    than other similar land owners.


    They may have invested in that land to sell and send a kid to
    college.....

    Or maybe you are lying and they inherited the
    property from their parents.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From #BeamMeUpScotty@21:1/5 to jim on Mon Jun 26 12:40:19 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    On 06/25/2017 04:14 PM, jim wrote:
    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    To take the property required imminent domain....

    To take the value of it, is to take the property. Either way the State
    confiscated $360,000 worth of property and/or avoided paying fair value.

    If BMUS writes it you know its a lie.

    First of all, the state isn't involved other than
    providing the legal system in which a local govt
    can operate and disputes can be resolved.

    State constitutions and laws and court decisions can't violate the U.S. constitution.

    Second, the local govt is not violating the Constitution
    by having zoning laws and restrictions on development and land
    use.

    They do violate the constitution with their local land use laws all the
    time and so do the HOA's that try to tell you what you can do in your
    own house and yard.

    The courts are filled with cases.

    If that restriction violated the U.S. constitutional property rights of
    the owners, then it's a problem.

    You (Jim) get spit into my liars filter and so I always know when a liar
    is posting, your name is linked to it.

    All I have to do then is dig deep enough to find your lies.


    --
    That's Karma

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jim@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 26 21:26:49 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    On 06/25/2017 04:14 PM, jim wrote:
    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    To take the property required imminent domain....

    To take the value of it, is to take the property. Either way the State >>> >>confiscated $360,000 worth of property and/or avoided paying fair value. >> >
    If BMUS writes it you know its a lie.

    First of all, the state isn't involved other than
    providing the legal system in which a local govt
    can operate and disputes can be resolved.

    State constitutions and laws and court decisions can't violate the U.S. constitution.


    The Constitution says clearly that govts are allowed
    to deprive people of life, liberty and property
    as long as its done with due process.

    There is no evidence of lack of due process in
    this case. The ordinance was written decades before
    they owned the property.


    Second, the local govt is not violating the Constitution
    by having zoning laws and restrictions on development and land
    use.

    They do violate the constitution with their local land use laws all the
    time

    Do ya think the Federal govt should send in the Federal
    marshals and tell the locals how to run their affairs?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From #BeamMeUpScotty@21:1/5 to jim on Thu Jun 29 09:42:02 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    On 06/26/2017 10:26 PM, jim wrote:
    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    On 06/25/2017 04:14 PM, jim wrote:
    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    To take the property required imminent domain....

    To take the value of it, is to take the property. Either way the
    State
    confiscated $360,000 worth of property and/or avoided paying fair
    value.

    If BMUS writes it you know its a lie.

    First of all, the state isn't involved other than
    providing the legal system in which a local govt
    can operate and disputes can be resolved.

    State constitutions and laws and court decisions can't violate the U.S.
    constitution.


    The Constitution says clearly that govts are allowed
    to deprive people of life, liberty and property
    as long as its done with due process.

    And you deleted the text that explained the fact that the State didn't
    use due process..... they stole the property without using "imminent
    domain".

    They can't simply steal it when the Constitution has the way to do
    something like that spelled out as the constitutional way to do it.

    Like Article 5 tells the government how it will create Amendments...
    they can't just bypass that by writing laws to change the constitution.

    In the case of stealing property, imminent domain "is" the due process.

    And imminent domain says that they pay fair market value. if their law
    said the owner can't sell to anyone else then it had to say that the
    sale to the government was to be done "within the imminent domain legal structure" then I'd have no quibble with it.

    As it is the County and State colluded to steal from a U.S. citizen,
    because eminent domain requires fair market values.

    Funny that a Liberal wants minimum wage and yet you can't see the value
    of a fair market value. Proof that Liberals don't understand capitalism.

    When government sets a minimum wage for government workers I have no
    issues with it, but since the constitution doesn't allow for a Nation
    wide minimum wage I see it as over reaching their delegated power when
    they try to set a national minimum wage. But you want to ignore a
    minimum fair market value for imminent domain when it's mandated in the constitution. You want to let the government do what they have no
    delegated power to do "because it violates property rights".

    So once again NATIONALIZING private property into PUBLIC PROPERTY with
    no delegated power to do it you want the State Government to steal from citizens.

    --
    That's Karma

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jim@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 29 15:42:25 2017
    XPost: misc.legal, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sac.politics
    XPost: alt.politics.economics

    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    On 06/26/2017 10:26 PM, jim wrote:
    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    On 06/25/2017 04:14 PM, jim wrote:
    #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
    To take the property required imminent domain....

    To take the value of it, is to take the property. Either way the
    State
    confiscated $360,000 worth of property and/or avoided paying fair
    value.

    If BMUS writes it you know its a lie.

    First of all, the state isn't involved other than
    providing the legal system in which a local govt
    can operate and disputes can be resolved.

    State constitutions and laws and court decisions can't violate the U.S. >>> >>constitution.


    The Constitution says clearly that govts are allowed
    to deprive people of life, liberty and property
    as long as its done with due process.

    And you deleted the text that explained the fact that the State didn't
    use due process..... they stole the property without using "imminent domain".

    You don't explain things you just tell lies.

    You certainly can't explain that the state stole it since
    the property still belongs to the plauntiffs and the state
    has never shown the slightest interest in taking the property.

    They can't simply steal it when the Constitution has the way to do
    something like that spelled out as the constitutional way to do it.

    Where is the process spelled out in the Constitution?

    if their law
    said the owner can't sell to anyone else

    That's not what the law says. That's
    just your personal lie about what the law says.

    then it had to say that the
    sale to the government was to be done "within the imminent
    domain legal structure" then I'd have no quibble with it.

    The local govt doesn't want the property.
    Do you think the federal govt trumps the local
    taxpayers when it comes to deciding what they
    need or want?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)