• stroller vs. wheelchair on NYCTA

    From Hactar@21:1/5 to robgood@bestweb.net on Wed Mar 2 23:33:36 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <0a0a30d8-b580-4a7d-8d99-18d889e6a496@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    A bus I rode today was driven by a newbie. Waiting at the stop before I
    was to get off, a man with a baby in a stroller wanted to get on. The
    driver told him the rules forbade unfolded strollers on the bus, and
    then then waited while the man picked up the baby & folded the stroller.

    At 1st my concern was, why not save time by letting him unpack the baby
    & pack the stroller after getting on with us under way again? But after that, I thought, why do they allow someone in a wheelchair or mobility scooter onto the bus, but a baby in a stroller not? They even have
    special mechanisms for wheelchair users to get on & ride on the bus.

    They also have signs on the subway that you're not allowed to carry on electric motorboards, because they can catch fire. But couldn't you
    prevent that by disconnecting the battery?

    That prevents some failure modes (fault in the device) but not others
    (fault in the battery).

    And what about other electric devices? Electric wheelchairs, for
    instance.

    The electric wheelchair I examined used a lead-acid battery. I haven't
    been up close and personal with an electric motorboards, but they
    probably use NiMH (LiIon?) like RC planes.

    --
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    TAURUS: You will never find true happiness - what you gonna
    do, cry about it? The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up,

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  • From Greg Goss@21:1/5 to Hactar on Wed Mar 2 22:17:47 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:

    That prevents some failure modes (fault in the device) but not others
    (fault in the battery).

    And what about other electric devices? Electric wheelchairs, for
    instance.

    The electric wheelchair I examined used a lead-acid battery. I haven't
    been up close and personal with an electric motorboards, but they
    probably use NiMH (LiIon?) like RC planes.

    It's really hard to get Li Ion right. Boeing has had plane fires from
    these batteries. Toshiba recalled millions of laptops, both of its
    own and of competitor's laptops that bought batteries from Toshiba.
    There are a lot of cases of cell phones near-exploding in pockets. My
    Honda hybrid used NiMH batteries because their engineers refused to
    certify either Ultracaps or LiIon for accidents or North American
    prairie winters.

    "Hover"boards are usually cheaply made. I'm not so sure that I trust
    the battery controller circuitry in them. If Boeing can get it wrong
    ...


    --
    We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

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  • From Snidely@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 2 23:53:15 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    Hactar pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
    In article <0a0a30d8-b580-4a7d-8d99-18d889e6a496@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    A bus I rode today was driven by a newbie. Waiting at the stop before I
    was to get off, a man with a baby in a stroller wanted to get on. The
    driver told him the rules forbade unfolded strollers on the bus, and
    then then waited while the man picked up the baby & folded the stroller.

    At 1st my concern was, why not save time by letting him unpack the baby
    & pack the stroller after getting on with us under way again?

    Because then the driver has no leverage, as well as the issue of having
    the child halfway out when the bus finds the pothole, or swerves away
    from a bicyclist. Adult standees handle those by strap-hanging, but
    they aren't half-entangled in something rolling across the floor.

    But after
    that, I thought, why do they allow someone in a wheelchair or mobility
    scooter onto the bus, but a baby in a stroller not? They even have
    special mechanisms for wheelchair users to get on & ride on the bus.

    They also have signs on the subway that you're not allowed to carry on
    electric motorboards, because they can catch fire. But couldn't you
    prevent that by disconnecting the battery?

    That prevents some failure modes (fault in the device) but not others
    (fault in the battery).

    And what about other electric devices? Electric wheelchairs, for
    instance.

    The electric wheelchair I examined used a lead-acid battery. I haven't
    been up close and personal with an electric motorboards, but they
    probably use NiMH (LiIon?) like RC planes.

    NiMH is relatively benign, but doesn't have the high output. Lithium
    Ion is a different technology, and both anode design and the permeable
    layer are tricky (cathode design less so AIUI). A pinhole in the
    permeable layer can let a lithium whisker short out the cell, I believe (without fact checking my memory). This short is what starts the fire;
    the components provide lots of fuel, too.

    Tesla spent a lot of money on their battery packs, including multiple
    sensors for each cell (thermal as well as voltage) and ways of
    isolating cells that go wrong.

    /dps

    --
    Ieri, oggi, domani

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  • From Howard@21:1/5 to Greg Goss on Thu Mar 3 13:43:28 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote

    "Hover"boards are usually cheaply made. I'm not so sure that I trust
    the battery controller circuitry in them. If Boeing can get it wrong
    ...

    The Consumer Product Safety Commission has been tightening the screws on
    them.

    This article from CNET says there were 50+ fires caused by them with over
    $2 million in damage. As of the publication date a little while ago, none
    of them had been approved by the UL yet.

    http://cnet.co/1PM38cg

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  • From S. Checker@21:1/5 to Snidely on Thu Mar 3 08:35:57 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In alt.fan.cecil-adams Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> wrote:
    Hactar pounded on thar keyboard to tell us
    In article <0a0a30d8-b580-4a7d-8d99-18d889e6a496@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    A bus I rode today was driven by a newbie. Waiting at the stop before I >>> was to get off, a man with a baby in a stroller wanted to get on. The
    driver told him the rules forbade unfolded strollers on the bus, and
    then then waited while the man picked up the baby & folded the stroller. >>>
    At 1st my concern was, why not save time by letting him unpack the baby
    & pack the stroller after getting on with us under way again?

    Because then the driver has no leverage, as well as the issue of having
    the child halfway out when the bus finds the pothole, or swerves away
    from a bicyclist. Adult standees handle those by strap-hanging, but
    they aren't half-entangled in something rolling across the floor.

    I agree with this. I also have to suspect that most bus injuries /
    accidents occur while boarding and leaving the bus. Both in the court
    of public opinion and in actual court I suspect it sounds better (for
    the MTA) to say "the parent dropped the baby" than "the driver let the
    stroller roll out the door." With wheelchairs, in many cases, it would
    take a very special kind of driver to be able to tell the occupant to
    get up and walk.
    --
    "It's easier to stop sticking a fork in your ear than it is to try and construct some kind of electro-magnetic hat."
    -- Ben M. Schorr

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  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to robgood@bestweb.net on Thu Mar 3 17:19:28 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <d465d660-c96f-4d0c-8e97-4b79ab51dc76@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 8:53:22 AM UTC-5, hymie! wrote:
    In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net>, who said:
    But after that, I thought, why do they allow someone in a wheelchair or mobility scooter onto the bus, but a baby in a stroller not? They even have special mechanisms for wheelchair users to get on & ride on the bus.

    Although I haven't lived in NYC in many years, I'm pretty sure the answer is "For wheelchairs and mobility scooters, their status as 'hazard to the general public' is overshadowed by their status as 'protected under the ADA'. Baby strollers are not protected by the ADA, so they are still classified as a hazard."

    Interesting. So the idea is that wheelchairs are only grudgingly accommodated, because they gotta, but since they can still ban
    strollers, they do.

    Same thing with pets in restaurants etc. Seeing-eye dogs (and other
    assitive animals) are allowed because they have to, but pets aren't.

    --
    What is this called? http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc 19 cm/7.5" tall
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    Logic is a systematic method of coming to
    the wrong conclusion with confidence.

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  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to robgood@bestweb.net on Fri Mar 4 13:48:47 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <161f3292-bce4-44f8-a182-360a9966954b@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 6:08:10 PM UTC-5, Hactar wrote:
    In article <d465d660-c96f-4d0c-8e97-4b79ab51dc76@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 8:53:22 AM UTC-5, hymie! wrote:
    In our last episode, the evil Dr. Lacto had captured our hero,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net>, who said:
    But after that, I thought, why do they allow someone in a wheelchair or
    mobility scooter onto the bus, but a baby in a stroller not? They even
    have special mechanisms for wheelchair users to get on & ride on
    the bus.

    Although I haven't lived in NYC in many years, I'm pretty sure the answer
    is "For wheelchairs and mobility scooters, their status as 'hazard to the
    general public' is overshadowed by their status as 'protected under the ADA'. Baby strollers are not protected by the ADA, so they are still classified as a hazard."

    Interesting. So the idea is that wheelchairs are only grudgingly accommodated, because they gotta, but since they can still ban
    strollers, they do.

    Same thing with pets in restaurants etc. Seeing-eye dogs (and other assitive animals) are allowed because they have to, but pets aren't.

    I'd've thought that once ice was broken, it'd stay broken. Like when
    they let men be topless, they let women too, whether they're breast
    feeding or not.

    There you go, using logic again.

    --
    What is this called? http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc 19 cm/7.5" tall
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    Are you confident that you appear to be professional in your electronic communication? Consider this: A: No

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  • From desmondan924@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 26 18:15:21 2016
    在 2016年3月3日星期四 UTC+8下午1:08:10,Hactar写道:
    In article <0a0a30d8-b580-4a7d-8d99-18d889e6a496@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    A bus I rode today was driven by a newbie. Waiting at the stop before I was to get off, a man with a baby in a stroller wanted to get on. The driver told him the rules forbade unfolded strollers on the bus, and
    then then waited while the man picked up the baby & folded the stroller.

    At 1st my concern was, why not save time by letting him unpack the baby
    & pack the stroller after getting on with us under way again? But after that, I thought, why do they allow someone in a wheelchair or mobility scooter onto the bus, but a baby in a stroller not? They even have
    special mechanisms for wheelchair users to get on & ride on the bus.

    They also have signs on the subway that you're not allowed to carry on electric motorboards, because they can catch fire. But couldn't you prevent that by disconnecting the battery?

    That prevents some failure modes (fault in the device) but not others
    (fault in the battery).

    And what about other electric devices? Electric wheelchairs, for
    instance.

    The electric wheelchair I examined used a lead-acid battery. I haven't
    been up close and personal with an electric motorboards, but they
    probably use NiMH (LiIon?) like RC planes.

    --
    What is this called? http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc 19 cm/7.5" tall
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    TAURUS: You will never find true happiness - what you gonna
    do, cry about it? The stars predict tomorrow you'll wake up,

    Hello , there , this is Andy from Shenxing Healthcare , we are the wheelchair OEM manufacturer . if you want to buy the wheelchair , welcome to contact me , you will find your ideal one . cheap price with good quality . FDA CE and ISO certificated

    my skype :desmond.an1

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