• An Ethical Question

    From Hactar@21:1/5 to tedthecat85@aol.com on Thu May 12 16:17:10 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill <tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:
    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The
    old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for.
    The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.

    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing _chain_ not a
    timing _belt_.

    Looked at one but they want the pretty car. I got
    rid of the salesman and encouraged them to get the less expensive one.
    It will give you the same number of miles at less than half the price.

    Should I have insisted that they not buy the pretty car?

    They're old enough to make their own idiotic decisions.

    --
    Mini geyser lamp: http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc Where can I buy one?
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    When we've nuked the world to a cinder, the cockroaches picking
    over the remains will be crawling over the remaining artifacts

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Goss@21:1/5 to Hactar on Thu May 12 22:53:06 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:

    In article <0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill <tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:
    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The
    old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for.
    The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.

    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing _chain_ not a >timing _belt_.

    Or get the belt replaced every hundred thousand miles (160
    megametres). It's not an expensive operation.>> Should I have
    insisted that they not buy the pretty car?

    They're old enough to make their own idiotic decisions.

    They're adults. You can inform, but not force.
    --
    We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to gossg@gossg.org on Fri May 13 12:22:42 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <dpl4tjFdft2U3@mid.individual.net>,
    Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:
    ebenZEROONE@verizon.net (Hactar) wrote:

    In article <0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill <tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:
    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The
    old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for.
    The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.

    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing _chain_ not a >timing _belt_.

    Or get the belt replaced every hundred thousand miles (160
    megametres). It's not an expensive operation.

    It's not that expensive _if you do it yourself_. The belt itself and the
    head gasket are about your only expenses, I think. However, since
    they're the kind of people that didn't even know it had to be done, I
    don't think they'd do it (or anything past adding fuel) themselves. If
    you have a mechanic do it, it's an hour or two of teardown to get at it.

    --
    Mini geyser lamp: http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc Where can I buy one?
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    AQUARIUS: There's travel in your future when your tongue freezes to the
    back of a speeding bus. Fill the void in your pathetic life by playing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to gossg@gossg.org on Fri May 13 13:07:26 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <dpl52mFdft2U4@mid.individual.net>,
    Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote:
    Alfalfa Bill <tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:

    On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 4:08:04 PM UTC-5, Hactar wrote:
    In article <0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill <tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:
    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The >> > old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for. >> > The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.

    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing _chain_ not a
    timing _belt_.

    Thanks, wasn't sure about that. I know nothing about automotive
    mechanics and care even less.

    A rubber timing belt will wear out. A chain will last much longer.
    I'm not sure what the downside is for a chain.

    I'm guessing, noisier and more frictiony, but I really have no evidence. Besides, over the noise and heat of the adjacent cylinders, who could
    tell?

    Our '76 Subaru had a timing chain. We got rid of it in '89, with an
    engine swap (for a '77) near the end. The timing chain was never changed.

    --
    Mini geyser lamp: http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc Where can I buy one?
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    CANCER: The position of Jupiter says that you should spend the
    rest of the week face down in the mud. Try not to shove a roll of

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to layrton481@gmail.com on Sun May 15 20:39:23 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <nhap6c$inb$1@reader1.panix.com>,
    Lee Ayrton <layrton481@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/13/2016 12:55 AM, Greg Goss wrote:

    A rubber timing belt will wear out. A chain will last much longer.
    I'm not sure what the downside is for a chain. But it's not that much money to replace the belt.

    Chains add mass to the parts of the engine in motion, not useful for
    modern small engines that chance speed quickly.

    What's a timing chain weigh, a few hundred grams? It's not
    reciprocating either.

    They can stretch and slap at speed when worn.
    I'd imagine that belts are less expensive to
    manufacture and to install on the factory line.

    I'm sure. I'd be willing to pay a few dozen dollars more (on a $10-$30k purchase) to ensure I didn't have to drop a few hundred dollars every few years.

    --
    Mini geyser lamp: http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc Where can I buy one?
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? [TOFU := text oben,
    A: Top-posting. followup unten]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Greg Goss@21:1/5 to Lee Ayrton on Mon May 16 01:44:32 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    Lee Ayrton <layrton481@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 5/12/2016 4:17 PM, Hactar wrote:
    In article<0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill<tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:

    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The
    old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for.
    The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.
    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing_chain_ not a
    timing_belt_.

    Does anyone even make engines with timing chains for cars any more? >Everything I've had for donkey's years has had belts.

    My current car has a chain. http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2005/toyota/matrix/engine_mechanical/timing_chain.html

    --
    We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to robgood@bestweb.net on Mon May 16 11:59:29 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <33269b52-ffb7-4ddc-af80-964e1e2b7e21@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 7:41:38 PM UTC-4, Shawn Wilson wrote:

    On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 1:01:08 PM UTC-7, Alfalfa Bill wrote:

    Can it be a rational decision for them to screw up there finances
    for the rest of their lives because the pleasure from the wonderful
    car outweighs that?

    In the end the only point of money is to use it to buy things that
    give you pleasure. So... Sounds like this will give them more
    pleasure than any reasonable alternative purchase. Keep your opinion
    to yourself.

    Hey! Stating his opinion gives him pleasure, & costs him just the
    writing time.

    Besides, who do you (S) think you are to exclude opinions that disagree
    with yours?

    --
    Mini geyser lamp: http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc Where can I buy one?
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    VIRGO: All Virgos are extremely friendly and intelligent - except
    for you. Expect a big surprise today when you wind up with your

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hactar@21:1/5 to layrton481@gmail.com on Sun May 15 20:30:37 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    In article <nhap99$inb$2@reader1.panix.com>,
    Lee Ayrton <layrton481@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 5/12/2016 4:17 PM, Hactar wrote:
    In article<0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill<tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:

    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The
    old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for.
    The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.
    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing_chain_ not a timing_belt_.

    Does anyone even make engines with timing chains for cars any more? Everything I've had for donkey's years has had belts.

    Evidence says our '08 Mazda CX-7 has one; google on

    cx-7 ("timing belt" | "timing chain")

    It seems they're rarer than they should be.

    --
    Mini geyser lamp: http://imgur.com/c6bHOCc Where can I buy one?
    -eben QebWenE01R@vTerYizUonI.nOetP ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
    PISCES: Try to avoid any Virgos or Leos with the Ebola
    virus. You are the Lord of the Dance, no matter what those

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lesmond@21:1/5 to Hactar on Tue May 17 11:10:56 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:59:29 -0400, Hactar wrote:

    In article <33269b52-ffb7-4ddc-af80-964e1e2b7e21@googlegroups.com>,
    Bob <robgood@bestweb.net> wrote:
    On Sunday, May 15, 2016 at 7:41:38 PM UTC-4, Shawn Wilson wrote:

    On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 1:01:08 PM UTC-7, Alfalfa Bill wrote:

    Can it be a rational decision for them to screw up there finances
    for the rest of their lives because the pleasure from the wonderful
    car outweighs that?

    In the end the only point of money is to use it to buy things that
    give you pleasure. So... Sounds like this will give them more
    pleasure than any reasonable alternative purchase. Keep your opinion
    to yourself.

    Hey! Stating his opinion gives him pleasure, & costs him just the
    writing time.

    Besides, who do you (S) think you are to exclude opinions that disagree
    with yours?

    Have you met Shawn?

    --
    Queen of the fucking universe.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lee Ayrton@21:1/5 to Hactar on Sun May 15 17:21:39 2016
    XPost: alt.fan.cecil-adams

    On 5/12/2016 4:17 PM, Hactar wrote:
    In article<0e7022c3-9f5c-466b-8e6b-cc53328d9d99@googlegroups.com>,
    Alfalfa Bill<tedthecat85@aol.com> wrote:

    My brother-in-law and sister-in-law needed to replace their car. The
    old car was a PT-Cruiser they bought new and just finished paying for.
    The timing belt snapped because they did not know it needs to be
    replaced at intervals and it totaled the engine.
    They need a non-interference engine, or one with a timing_chain_ not a timing_belt_.

    Does anyone even make engines with timing chains for cars any more?
    Everything I've had for donkey's years has had belts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)