• What is the last version of Thunderbird that can be used in Win98se?

    From lastcall@thebar.co-@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 23 00:07:31 2018
    What is the last version of Thunderbird that can be used in Win98se?

    I have ver. 2.0.0.24. I have been using that for decades and never had a
    need to upgrade. It does all I need, so why add more bloated crap.

    I use gmail, and use their SMTP pop mail to get my email to TB. I no
    longer have any web access, using ANY browser in Win98. Changing all the
    web to HTTPS ended all my use of the web. Actually, losing the web was
    not a big problem. Seems everyone is using facebook now anyhow, and I absolutely hate FB and would not use it if they paid me. So, goodbye
    web....

    But now I am getting a constant error in Thunderbird that keeps saying I
    dont have some security enabled. I looked in the settings and there is
    no security enabled, but when I try to change it, it says that none of
    them are usable.

    I am sure that no versions made in recent years will load in Win98, but
    maybe I can upgrade a few versions? Does anyone know if any newer
    version will work? (Do they have better security features)?
    Personally I could care less about security. All I do is chit chat with
    a few friends and none of it has any secretive stuff. But I guess Google
    has other ideas. They dont care who suffers, just as long as they can
    control the internet. Soon, it will be much more secure, because no one
    will be able to use it.

    If I lose my email, I am finished with the internet completely. There is
    no sense paying for service, when all I can use are the newsgroups, and
    as everyone knows, the newsgroups are darn near dead.

    Anyhow, I am just wondering if there is any way to upgrade TB. If not, I
    guess I'll have to go back to the old fashioned methods of using the
    telephone to contact friends, just like i have gone back to using the
    books at the library to look stuff up, because I can no longer use the
    web.

    In a way, it's kind of funny. I was raised to use books to learn stuff,
    and use the phone to contact friends. Then we were all given this
    amazing tool called the internet to make life easier. It worked great
    for about 2 decades. Now it's all been taken away from us. Or at least
    from those of us who cant afford a new computer and pay $150 per month
    to get high speed internet, which is the only way I can get anything
    more than dialup.

    And by the way, my flip phone used to have basic internet service. That
    too no longer works. So, as far as I'm concerned, the internet is dead.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Donald G. Davis@21:1/5 to lastcall@thebar.co- on Thu Aug 23 22:14:03 2018
    lastcall@thebar.co- writes:

    What is the last version of Thunderbird that can be used in Win98se?

    I know nothing about Thunderbird, but if you have KernelEx installed
    in your Win98SE, you can use Firefox up to version 3.6.28, which will
    still operate with many basic Web sites (but not with recent YouTube
    videos, or with HTML5; e.g., forget about internet banking or other transactions involving secure communications). You'd be better off having
    a dual-boot system with Windows 98SE and Windows XP with Firefox 48.0.2,
    in which most secure Web sites will still work.

    If I lose my email, I am finished with the internet completely. There is
    no sense paying for service, when all I can use are the newsgroups, and
    as everyone knows, the newsgroups are darn near dead.

    If you live in an area with a Sprint signal, and you have income
    less than 200% of federal poverty guidelines, you might want to look up PCsforPeople.com. This involves a one-time purchase of a tiny wireless
    hotspot device, after which you can maintain wireless internet service for
    $120 per year. Mine is not as fast as Centurylink DSL service (Sprint
    gives only one-bar signal in my area), but it's much faster than dialup,
    and has the big advantage that the device can be taken along when I
    travel, and will work wherever the Sprint signal is available.

    And by the way, my flip phone used to have basic internet service. That
    too no longer works. So, as far as I'm concerned, the internet is dead.

    If you qualify under the low-income requirement and live in an area
    with Sprint signals, you may want to look into Qlink.com, which offers
    *free* smartphones and accounts with up to 1,000 minutes per month in many areas. The phone will connect to the internet wherever there's an open
    WiFi signal, and does include a browser, though I find it quite hard to
    use because it's very difficult to type on the tiny touchscreen keyboard.
    But the free phone service alone is more than worth having, compared to
    the $100 per year I was formerly paying for a flip-phone account.

    --Donald Davis








    I have ver. 2.0.0.24. I have been using that for decades and never had a
    need to upgrade. It does all I need, so why add more bloated crap.

    I use gmail, and use their SMTP pop mail to get my email to TB. I no
    longer have any web access, using ANY browser in Win98. Changing all the
    web to HTTPS ended all my use of the web. Actually, losing the web was
    not a big problem. Seems everyone is using facebook now anyhow, and I >absolutely hate FB and would not use it if they paid me. So, goodbye
    web....

    But now I am getting a constant error in Thunderbird that keeps saying I
    dont have some security enabled. I looked in the settings and there is
    no security enabled, but when I try to change it, it says that none of
    them are usable.

    I am sure that no versions made in recent years will load in Win98, but
    maybe I can upgrade a few versions? Does anyone know if any newer
    version will work? (Do they have better security features)?
    Personally I could care less about security. All I do is chit chat with
    a few friends and none of it has any secretive stuff. But I guess Google
    has other ideas. They dont care who suffers, just as long as they can
    control the internet. Soon, it will be much more secure, because no one
    will be able to use it.

    If I lose my email, I am finished with the internet completely. There is
    no sense paying for service, when all I can use are the newsgroups, and
    as everyone knows, the newsgroups are darn near dead.

    Anyhow, I am just wondering if there is any way to upgrade TB. If not, I >guess I'll have to go back to the old fashioned methods of using the >telephone to contact friends, just like i have gone back to using the
    books at the library to look stuff up, because I can no longer use the
    web.

    In a way, it's kind of funny. I was raised to use books to learn stuff,
    and use the phone to contact friends. Then we were all given this
    amazing tool called the internet to make life easier. It worked great
    for about 2 decades. Now it's all been taken away from us. Or at least
    from those of us who cant afford a new computer and pay $150 per month
    to get high speed internet, which is the only way I can get anything
    more than dialup.

    And by the way, my flip phone used to have basic internet service. That
    too no longer works. So, as far as I'm concerned, the internet is dead.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lastcall@thebar.co-@21:1/5 to dgdavis@blackhole.nyx.net on Fri Aug 24 02:29:46 2018
    On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 22:14:03 GMT, Donald G. Davis
    <dgdavis@blackhole.nyx.net> wrote:

    lastcall@thebar.co- writes:

    What is the last version of Thunderbird that can be used in Win98se?

    I know nothing about Thunderbird, but if you have KernelEx installed
    in your Win98SE, you can use Firefox up to version 3.6.28, which will
    still operate with many basic Web sites (but not with recent YouTube
    videos, or with HTML5; e.g., forget about internet banking or other >transactions involving secure communications). You'd be better off having
    a dual-boot system with Windows 98SE and Windows XP with Firefox 48.0.2,
    in which most secure Web sites will still work.


    Thats exactly what I have installed. Kernel-Ex and FF 3.6.28

    All the secure stuff used to be only for online banking and sites where
    you have to enter a credit card (online shopping).

    But almost all sites are secure now (https). We can thank fucking Google
    for that. From what i heard, they made it law, that all sites who do not
    switch to the HTTPS, will no longer be allowed to be in Google's
    searches. What I'd like to know is who the hell made Google OWNER of the internet. So what we now have is a monopoly. The internet is owned by
    Google and Facebook. And like all monopolies, once they assume
    ownership, it all goes to hell, and that is preciesly what has happened.

    I actually stopped using Google when I could still use the web, simply
    because I got tired of all their bullshit.

    My computer is 19 years old, I doubt it would run XP. I do have another computer that does have XP on it, but I have never been able to get a
    usable connection on the modem. It connects, but I get that "spiral of
    death". After 5 min, it's still connected but wont transfer data, and it disconnects after 15 min or less.


    If I lose my email, I am finished with the internet completely. There is
    no sense paying for service, when all I can use are the newsgroups, and
    as everyone knows, the newsgroups are darn near dead.

    If you live in an area with a Sprint signal, and you have income
    less than 200% of federal poverty guidelines, you might want to look up >PCsforPeople.com. This involves a one-time purchase of a tiny wireless >hotspot device, after which you can maintain wireless internet service for >$120 per year. Mine is not as fast as Centurylink DSL service (Sprint
    gives only one-bar signal in my area), but it's much faster than dialup,
    and has the big advantage that the device can be taken along when I
    travel, and will work wherever the Sprint signal is available.

    I dont know if we have Sprint around here. I know we have Verison. My
    Tracfone uses Verison. I am on SSI (retired) and get little each month,
    so I probably do qualify as far as income. That pcsforpeople.com sounds promising. $120 per year is a great price. Much less than what i pay for
    dialup now. But I do get a very poor cell signal here. To make calls, I
    usually have to walk up my hill. But I am aware of cellphone signal
    boosters, and know i get a better signal on my roof, so I'd get one of
    them if I could get this service.

    I will have to wait till I go to someone's home to look at their web
    though. I just tried to load it, and it's https, so it aint gonna load.

    And by the way, my flip phone used to have basic internet service. That
    too no longer works. So, as far as I'm concerned, the internet is dead.

    If you qualify under the low-income requirement and live in an area
    with Sprint signals, you may want to look into Qlink.com, which offers
    *free* smartphones and accounts with up to 1,000 minutes per month in many >areas. The phone will connect to the internet wherever there's an open
    WiFi signal, and does include a browser, though I find it quite hard to
    use because it's very difficult to type on the tiny touchscreen keyboard.
    But the free phone service alone is more than worth having, compared to
    the $100 per year I was formerly paying for a flip-phone account.

    --Donald Davis


    My flip phone service is free. I gt it from Safelink, which is really
    Tracfone. I qualify by my low income. I get 500 min per month, and
    rarely use more than 50 min. When I could use the internet on that
    phone, I would use more. But that internet was very limited. What I miss
    most was getting weather radar maps when I am on the go.

    I actually have an android smartphone, which would qualify for Tracfone.
    I can use it at a WIFI, but like you said, those tiny keys are hard to
    use, and I really find android very senior unfriendly. Without a mouse,
    it's extremely hard to use. I decided that for my phone, I'd just stick
    with the flip phone.

    ---------------








    I have ver. 2.0.0.24. I have been using that for decades and never had a >>need to upgrade. It does all I need, so why add more bloated crap.

    I use gmail, and use their SMTP pop mail to get my email to TB. I no
    longer have any web access, using ANY browser in Win98. Changing all the >>web to HTTPS ended all my use of the web. Actually, losing the web was
    not a big problem. Seems everyone is using facebook now anyhow, and I >>absolutely hate FB and would not use it if they paid me. So, goodbye >>web....

    But now I am getting a constant error in Thunderbird that keeps saying I >>dont have some security enabled. I looked in the settings and there is
    no security enabled, but when I try to change it, it says that none of
    them are usable.

    I am sure that no versions made in recent years will load in Win98, but >>maybe I can upgrade a few versions? Does anyone know if any newer
    version will work? (Do they have better security features)?
    Personally I could care less about security. All I do is chit chat with
    a few friends and none of it has any secretive stuff. But I guess Google >>has other ideas. They dont care who suffers, just as long as they can >>control the internet. Soon, it will be much more secure, because no one >>will be able to use it.

    If I lose my email, I am finished with the internet completely. There is
    no sense paying for service, when all I can use are the newsgroups, and
    as everyone knows, the newsgroups are darn near dead.

    Anyhow, I am just wondering if there is any way to upgrade TB. If not, I >>guess I'll have to go back to the old fashioned methods of using the >>telephone to contact friends, just like i have gone back to using the
    books at the library to look stuff up, because I can no longer use the
    web.

    In a way, it's kind of funny. I was raised to use books to learn stuff,
    and use the phone to contact friends. Then we were all given this
    amazing tool called the internet to make life easier. It worked great
    for about 2 decades. Now it's all been taken away from us. Or at least
    from those of us who cant afford a new computer and pay $150 per month
    to get high speed internet, which is the only way I can get anything
    more than dialup.

    And by the way, my flip phone used to have basic internet service. That
    too no longer works. So, as far as I'm concerned, the internet is dead.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to lastcall@thebar.co- on Fri Aug 24 08:35:10 2018
    lastcall@thebar.co- wrote:
    I have ver. 2.0.0.24. I have been using that for decades and never had a
    need to upgrade. It does all I need, so why add more bloated crap.
    [snip]
    But now I am getting a constant error in Thunderbird that keeps saying I
    dont have some security enabled. I looked in the settings and there is
    no security enabled, but when I try to change it, it says that none of
    them are usable.

    I am sure that no versions made in recent years will load in Win98, but
    maybe I can upgrade a few versions? Does anyone know if any newer
    version will work? (Do they have better security features)?
    Personally I could care less about security. All I do is chit chat with
    a few friends and none of it has any secretive stuff. But I guess Google
    has other ideas. They dont care who suffers, just as long as they can
    control the internet. Soon, it will be much more secure, because no one
    will be able to use it.

    I don't know much about Thunderbird, but chances are that Google requires
    TLS 1.1 or 1.2 as a minimum for encrypted connections (and has obviously decided to no longer allow unencrypted connections).

    Wikipedia's page on TLS lists the compatibility of web browsers. TLS 1.1
    and 1.2 are shown as supported from Firefox Version 27. Thunderbird is
    based heavily on Firefox, so the next version after Firefox 27 was
    released (Feb. 2014) should also handle TLS 1.1 and 1.2.

    The following links confirm that Thunderbird received support at the
    same time as Firefox:
    https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=733647 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=861266
    Yes, they're HTTPS so you probably can't check them. I just like to
    include these things for the record.

    The Thunderbird version with support is probably V. 28, but V. 31 would
    likely be better because 28 was a beta release.

    If you can't run Firefox 27 and view HTTPS sites using TLS 1.1 or 1.2,
    I'd be doubtful that you'd get Thunderbird 28 or later working. On the
    other hand, if you can get Thunderbird 31 working with Kernel Ex, you'll probably also be able to get Firefox 27 installed as well and view
    websites again.

    Another option is to use web mail and find a new email server with a
    website that suits your browser. Many of the interfaces that can be
    chosen at safe-mail.net should work well in FF 3.6, and they still
    allow TLS 1.0 connections (disable SSL 3.0 support in the settings
    (Advanced > Encryption) if you have trouble). You only get a 3MB
    inbox for free accounts though.


    By the way, my current HTTP web proxy is:
    http://www.youtubeproxy.pw/
    This works in Firefox V. 2:
    http://www.youtubeproxy.pw/beta
    Just in case you finally decide to give proxies a try...


    Wikipedia pages referenced for version information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mozilla_Thunderbird
    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From R.Wieser@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 24 12:37:00 2018
    Donald,

    Windows XP with Firefox 48.0.2 in which most secure
    Web sites will still work.

    Any reason for that, and not an earlier/later version ?

    FYI, I have v52 installed (on XP), and *really* don't like it that it tries
    to phone home every time I start it - nor the ammount of (sometimes
    guess)work involved to disable other phone home stuff. So, I would not
    mind using an earlier version which does not have as many "you must want to have this" (which I don't) features.

    The biggest problem however is that there seems to be *absolutily zero* in regard to a feature/comparision sheet, meaning that, most important, I
    cannot even check which encryption levels are supported by which version
    (and thus have no idea how far back I can go, version wise, without loosing connectivity).

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Donald G. Davis@21:1/5 to R.Wieser on Fri Aug 24 16:15:03 2018
    "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> writes:

    Donald,

    Windows XP with Firefox 48.0.2 in which most secure
    Web sites will still work.

    Any reason for that, and not an earlier/later version ?

    FYI, I have v52 installed (on XP), and *really* don't like it that it tries >to phone home every time I start it - nor the ammount of (sometimes >guess)work involved to disable other phone home stuff. So, I would not
    mind using an earlier version which does not have as many "you must want to >have this" (which I don't) features.

    The biggest problem however is that there seems to be *absolutily zero* in >regard to a feature/comparision sheet, meaning that, most important, I
    cannot even check which encryption levels are supported by which version
    (and thus have no idea how far back I can go, version wise, without loosing >connectivity).

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser

    On FF 42, most recent YouTube videos wouldn't play. I've never
    tried verstions between 42 and 48. I recently tried installing FF 52
    Portable, but the installation aborted with a message citing some obscure deficiency in my hardware (my machine is HP Pavilion a656x). So evidently
    some computers running XP can install FF 52, but some cannot. For the
    time being, FF 48.0.2 is still working with most videos and secure transactions, and seems to be the highest version I can install.

    --Donald Davis
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From R.Wieser@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 24 21:25:04 2018
    Donald,

    Windows XP with Firefox 48.0.2 in which most secure
    Web sites will still work.

    Any reason for that, and not an earlier/later version ?

    FF 48.0.2 ... seems to be the highest version I can install.

    Ah, thataway. Bummer, I had hoped you knew something abut FF I didn't, enabling me to "downgrade" a bit.

    Thanks for the reply though

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lastcall@thebar.co-@21:1/5 to not@telling.you.invalid on Fri Aug 24 16:50:36 2018
    On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 08:35:10 +0000 (UTC), Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

    Another option is to use web mail and find a new email server with a
    website that suits your browser. Many of the interfaces that can be
    chosen at safe-mail.net should work well in FF 3.6, and they still
    allow TLS 1.0 connections (disable SSL 3.0 support in the settings
    (Advanced > Encryption) if you have trouble). You only get a 3MB
    inbox for free accounts though.

    Thanks for that link. I have been wanting to find another email server. Although I'd prefer using software like Tbird, I really want to get rid
    of gmail, simply because it's Google. So I can live with onlline webmail
    as long as my browser will read it. 3mb should be find since I only send
    text messages, and an occaisonal small photo. I always reduce photo size
    using Paint Shop Pro, because on dialup a 1mb or larger photo takes
    forever to send.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From lastcall@thebar.co-@21:1/5 to dgdavis@blackhole.nyx.net on Fri Aug 24 16:50:27 2018
    On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 16:15:03 GMT, Donald G. Davis
    <dgdavis@blackhole.nyx.net> wrote:

    On FF 42, most recent YouTube videos wouldn't play. I've never


    Guess who owns Youtube?
    Yep, it's Google.

    Once again Google is dictating how we use the internet, and forcing all
    of us to spend money on new hardware to satisfy their demands.

    Heck, I can play MP4 files on Win98 easily. The only reason Youtube
    wants all the new software is so they can popup more ads to ruin our
    enjoyment of the videos on youtube.

    The time has come to stop using all Google sites. Unfortunately most
    young people dont care as lomg as they can watch their crap videos on
    their smartphones. Either way, Google has destroyed the internet, along
    with Facebook.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to R.Wieser on Sat Aug 25 00:42:05 2018
    R.Wieser <address@not.available> wrote:
    Donald,

    Windows XP with Firefox 48.0.2 in which most secure
    Web sites will still work.

    Any reason for that, and not an earlier/later version ?

    FYI, I have v52 installed (on XP), and *really* don't like it that it tries to phone home every time I start it - nor the ammount of (sometimes guess)work involved to disable other phone home stuff. So, I would not
    mind using an earlier version which does not have as many "you must want to have this" (which I don't) features.

    They have added more and more junk in over time (though at least,
    unlike Chrome, you can disable it in about:config _if_ you can
    find the setting to change), however even my old FF V. 2 install
    (on Linux, my w98 install is offline-only (albeit on the same PC
    that I'm posting this from, using Linux)) tries to phone home.
    The funny thing is that mozilla.org also now requires an encryption
    protocol that it doesn't support, so it ends up triggering an
    error window to pop up. I have managed to disable that fully in
    about:config now, though I thought I'd already done so before the
    error messages started telling me otherwise.

    On a more modern Linux distro (on a more modern PC) I'm running
    the latest FF 52 ESR (52.9). They're going to stop supporting
    V. 52 ESR on the 5th of Sep., so then I'll move up to V. 60(?)
    which uses a whole new engine and apparantly changes the interface
    and add-ons system. Time will tell whether the pros counter the
    cons with all that, and both have been reported widely by now.
    At a guess though, I'd be worried about whether it will work on
    XP due to the new rendering engine (and how likely it is that
    they would have made any effort for XP support when developing
    it).

    The biggest problem however is that there seems to be *absolutily zero* in regard to a feature/comparision sheet, meaning that, most important, I
    cannot even check which encryption levels are supported by which version
    (and thus have no idea how far back I can go, version wise, without loosing connectivity).

    This has been my valued reference for such matters, already used in
    this thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Web_browsers

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From 98 Guy@21:1/5 to lastcall@thebar.co- on Fri Aug 24 21:31:34 2018
    lastcall@thebar.co- wrote:

    What is the last version of Thunderbird that can be used in Win98se?

    You might want to look at Netscape 7.2 (and/or Netscape 9) and see if
    that will work for you. I'm posting this from Netscape 7.2

    Also, note this: I can pull imap email from gmail using outlook 2000 on win-98se. You have to tell gmail to allow the use of unapproved devices
    or software (there is a setting in the gmail control panel for that). I
    could probably find a way to post a link where you can download the
    Office 2k-Pro suite if you want to try outlook.

    I have Thunderbird installed on a win-7 laptop and find that it does a
    horrible job of deducing the correct time that an email was sent, so
    sorting messages by date/time is usually screwed up.

    If you run KernelEx (I think you said that you do) then you can install
    and run Opera 12.02 (the only version of 12 that will run on win-98 with
    Kex). This should allow you to browse some sites that FF 2.0.0.20 can't.

    I continue to use FF2 as my default browser. One trick for viewing pages
    that don't seem to load or display properly is to select View,
    Page-Style, and select No Style. For me, this ends up rendering the
    text that I want to read that was either poorly formatted or invisible
    using the default Basic Page Style.

    I also have the mvps hosts file on all my PC's, and on my win-98 pc I
    have added to it extensively. For my FF2 browser I use the addons
    BlockSite 1.0.3, Nuke Anything Enhanced 1.0.2, Remember Mismatched
    Domains 1.4.6, and Yesscript 1.7.
    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From R.Wieser@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 25 11:34:13 2018
    Kev,

    They have added more and more junk in over time

    Yep. Partly "feature creep", mixed with some "advertisement friendly" crap.

    though at least, unlike Chrome, you can disable it in about:config
    _if_ you can find the setting to change

    Yep again. I'm not even sure which changes I made influence which phone
    home connections.

    On a more modern Linux distro (on a more modern PC) I'm running
    the latest FF 52 ESR (52.9).

    I'm running 52.5 here (downloaded 4 months ago), on XP.

    They're going to stop supporting V. 52 ESR on the 5th of Sep., so then
    I'll move up to V. 60(?)
    ..
    At a guess though, I'd be worried about whether it will work on
    XP

    As far as I know 52 is the last verson that runs on XP.

    This has been my valued reference for such matters, already used
    in this thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Web_browsers

    Whooperdiedoop! My thanks for that. :-D

    <strikethru>
    Looking at that chart I can see FF 60.x ESR (you referred to) is mentioned there (supporting TLS 1.3), but am fully unsure how to interpret it (if it
    will actually run on XP - even though the next columns seems to say so).

    And are you perhaps aware of, for FF, a comparision chart showing which "junk"/features/buildin advertising-friendly crap each version has (getting
    a newer encryption is good, but what is it going to cost me) ?
    </strikethru>

    I just remembered that being able to use certain plugins (RequestPolicy and GreaseMonkey) is pretty-much a deal-breaker to me. A quick peek showed me
    that RequestPolicy doesn't seem to work on v57+ ...

    Bummer. TLS 1.3 would be handy to have.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser
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  • From Computer Nerd Kev@21:1/5 to R.Wieser on Sat Aug 25 23:02:20 2018
    R.Wieser <address@not.available> wrote:

    This has been my valued reference for such matters, already used
    in this thread:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security#Web_browsers

    Whooperdiedoop! My thanks for that. :-D

    <strikethru>
    Looking at that chart I can see FF 60.x ESR (you referred to) is mentioned there (supporting TLS 1.3), but am fully unsure how to interpret it (if it will actually run on XP - even though the next columns seems to say so).

    And are you perhaps aware of, for FF, a comparision chart showing which "junk"/features/buildin advertising-friendly crap each version has (getting
    a newer encryption is good, but what is it going to cost me) ?
    </strikethru>

    I just remembered that being able to use certain plugins (RequestPolicy and GreaseMonkey) is pretty-much a deal-breaker to me. A quick peek showed me that RequestPolicy doesn't seem to work on v57+ ...

    Bummer. TLS 1.3 would be handy to have.

    It does say that there's "experimental" support in V. 52, so you
    might be able to turn it on in about:config somewhere.

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#
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  • From R.Wieser@21:1/5 to All on Sun Aug 26 12:53:13 2018
    Kev,

    It does say that there's "experimental" support in V. 52, so
    you might be able to turn it on in about:config somewhere.

    Googleing showed me that setting "security.tls.version.max" to 4 should
    enable TLS 1.3 (if present ofcourse). Alas, there seems to be no way to actually check if it works ... :-(

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser
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  • From Paul@21:1/5 to lastcall@thebar.co- on Tue Aug 28 22:44:04 2018
    lastcall@thebar.co- wrote:
    What is the last version of Thunderbird that can be used in Win98se?

    I have ver. 2.0.0.24. I have been using that for decades and never had a
    need to upgrade. It does all I need, so why add more bloated crap.

    I use gmail, and use their SMTP pop mail to get my email to TB. I no
    longer have any web access, using ANY browser in Win98. Changing all the
    web to HTTPS ended all my use of the web. Actually, losing the web was
    not a big problem. Seems everyone is using facebook now anyhow, and I absolutely hate FB and would not use it if they paid me. So, goodbye
    web....

    But now I am getting a constant error in Thunderbird that keeps saying I
    dont have some security enabled. I looked in the settings and there is
    no security enabled, but when I try to change it, it says that none of
    them are usable.

    I am sure that no versions made in recent years will load in Win98, but
    maybe I can upgrade a few versions? Does anyone know if any newer
    version will work? (Do they have better security features)?
    Personally I could care less about security. All I do is chit chat with
    a few friends and none of it has any secretive stuff. But I guess Google
    has other ideas. They dont care who suffers, just as long as they can
    control the internet. Soon, it will be much more secure, because no one
    will be able to use it.

    If I lose my email, I am finished with the internet completely. There is
    no sense paying for service, when all I can use are the newsgroups, and
    as everyone knows, the newsgroups are darn near dead.

    Anyhow, I am just wondering if there is any way to upgrade TB. If not, I guess I'll have to go back to the old fashioned methods of using the telephone to contact friends, just like i have gone back to using the
    books at the library to look stuff up, because I can no longer use the
    web.

    In a way, it's kind of funny. I was raised to use books to learn stuff,
    and use the phone to contact friends. Then we were all given this
    amazing tool called the internet to make life easier. It worked great
    for about 2 decades. Now it's all been taken away from us. Or at least
    from those of us who cant afford a new computer and pay $150 per month
    to get high speed internet, which is the only way I can get anything
    more than dialup.

    And by the way, my flip phone used to have basic internet service. That
    too no longer works. So, as far as I'm concerned, the internet is dead.

    Tools : Options : Advanced : Config Editor

    security.enable_ssl2 False
    security.enable_ssl3 False
    security.enable_tls True

    What's interesting, it Config Editor doesn't have
    a crypto suite defined for TLS. Both SSL2 and SSL3
    have a listing of stuff like RC4 (very weak). New
    crypto methods are added all the time, in browsers,
    and Thunderbird is based on a Firefox browser.

    To upgrade Thunderbird, you check what's the highest
    version of Firefox you can run in Win98, then map that back
    to what version of Thunderbird is based on that.
    Say, as a made-up example, that Firefox 12 would
    run. And Thunderbird 5 was based on Firefox 12. Then
    you could install Thunderbird 5 and expect it to
    at least "run" on Win98, even if the crypto suite
    was still too old to work.

    Ninety percent of the code in Thunderbird, is the
    Firefox browser code. Thunderbird is merely an XML
    file that draws three panes on the screen. When it
    falls over, the window turns yellow, and the name
    of the (broken) XML is printed on the screen. That's
    how you discover that Thunderbird is a web program
    running on top of the XUL.dll engine.

    Just as Firefox was killed by bad design choices
    on Win98, so will Thunderbird succumb to the same
    bad choices. Because Thunderbird is Firefox.

    Even if Thunderbird had been Win32 code, and self-sufficient,
    it would still run into the problem of the
    SSL/TLS/crypt_suite/certificates evolving below
    your very feet, and the connection will still fall
    over.

    Your TLS is probably already turned on, but the
    crusty crypto suite (with the RC4 already turned off),
    is no match for CHACHA20.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salsa20

    "ChaCha20 adoption

    Google has selected ChaCha20 along with Bernstein's
    Poly1305 message authentication code as a replacement
    for RC4 in TLS, which is used for Internet security.[20]
    "

    What happens is, crypto suites are negotiated. The two ends
    go through their table of algos and select something
    they have in common. On the server end, the server
    can turn off practically all of the old ones, leaving
    a Win98 user high and dry. Maybe you need Thunderbird 60
    to get CHACHA20.

    Crypto is the ultimate determinant of your life on
    the Internet. Not other aspects of the program.
    If the crypto suite had been "plugin", like a separate
    program that just "secured" a connection for you,
    it might have been different.

    With some protocols, you can set up a "proxy". For example,
    some people do USENET News by keeping their own newsserver
    at 127.0.0.1. The newsserver syncs to the provider. The
    client program talks to 127.0.0.1:119. If you had something
    like that for email, the back end of the proxy-like
    solution could talk CHACHA20 to Google, while your
    local connection on 127.0.0.1 talked a less secure
    protocol (i.e. no crypto whatsoever). I don't know
    how to do that, I don't know what tool to use,
    but that's about the only option that comes to mind.

    Paul
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