• Outlook Calendar

    From Jim S@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 13 17:49:14 2019
    Does outlook latest version sync to Google Calendar?
    If not it's no good to me.
    --
    Jim S

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  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Jim S on Sat Jul 13 15:00:33 2019
    Jim S wrote:

    Does outlook latest version sync to Google Calendar?
    If not it's no good to me.

    https://support.office.com/en-us/article/see-your-google-calendar-in-outlook-c1dab514-0ad4-4811-824a-7d02c5e77126

    While Outlook (part of Office 365) can use Exchange to synchronize your e-mails, contacts, calendar, like with a Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com
    account, Google doesn't support Exchange. Google instead has an API to
    access their services, but that means using Google apps instead of
    Microsoft apps.

    Outlook can "sync" (sort of) with a Google Calendar by using iCal data.
    That means the Outlook client can retrieve events from your Google
    Calendar. This is one-way sync. You cannot create calendar events in
    Outlook to get them pushed into your Google Calender.

    What you get in Outlook is a *copy* of your Google Calendar. That's the limitation of using iCal. Microsoft could use Google's API to do full
    sync, but if Google changed anything then Microsoft would be on the hook
    to get Outlook to match (just like how Google doesn't support
    Microsoft's Exchange since Google doesn't have control over that
    proprietary protocol).

    If you want to "sync" your Outlook Calendar into your Google Calendar,
    you do the same iCal setup, so you get a copy of your Outlook Calendar
    to see in your Google Calendar. The result is that if you want to
    create or edit events in your Google Calendar then you go there to do
    so, and then Outlook will show you a /copy/ of those events from
    Google's Calendar. Same for visa version (showing a copy of Outlook's
    Calendar in Google's Calendar).

    Google doesn't do Exchange. Microsoft doesn't do Google's APIs. If
    each did then they would cooperate with each other to provide a portal
    into each other services, and that's not something either wants. A
    client that does both Exchange and Google's API would allow interactive
    access to both calendaring services (and then try to merge or overlay
    them into a single calendar presented to the user). Outlook 2016, nor
    any prior version, does that. Google's clients don't do that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar

    My recollection is that if you way 2-way synchronization, you had to use
    a service that accepted iCal data from either service and then updated
    the other service. Instead of just reading the other calendar, you
    could also create and edit events in the other calendar. I suspect that
    meant the 2-way sync service needed your login credentials, so they
    could take iCal data from one end to perform the actions on the other
    end.

    iCal is to publish your calendar, so others (including yourself) can
    /see/ your calendar at a different calendering service or their client.
    Seeing a published calender (whether private or public) doesn't give you interactive access to that calender. You can read. You cannot create
    or edit. You need to pick which will be your primary calendaring
    service where you can create, edit, or read your events, and then, if
    you want then publish it to see elsewhere. Else, you need to employ an arbitration service that takes iCal data from one calendaring service to convert into actions performed in the other calendaring service.

    iCal sucks. You get to see the other calendar. You don't get to
    interact with the other calendar (create, edit), just read it. While
    you can see both calendars, you'll still be managing them separately.

    That's the situation with most local clients. The Calendar app for
    Windows 10 (which is a UWP/WinRT app, not a Win32 app) does seem to
    support both Outlook and Google calendars. For example, I have both my
    Hotmail and Google Calendars subscribed in the Calendar for Win10 app,
    and when I create a new event then I get to pick in which calendar the
    event gets created. If you aren't careful, you'll put an event in the
    wrong calendar since the default on new event is to use the same
    calendar you used before to add a new event. Since iCal is a data
    stream coming at you (and not outward), the Calendar for Win10 app must
    be supporting both Exchange and Google's API to allow interaction with
    both. On further checking, looks like Microsoft and Google decided to
    start supporting REST, but then that's all new to me, anyway, despite
    REST is actually pretty old.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_state_transfer

    I had heard of Google using REST but didn't hear Microsoft did the same.

    https://developers.google.com/photos/library/guides/about-restful-apis https://github.com/microsoft/api-guidelines

    Since Outlook (and other local clients or web clients) only support
    letting you use iCal to merely /see/ the other calendar, all you get is
    a published calendar, not an interactive one. The Calendar for Windows
    10 app looks to be interactive on both Outlook and Google calendars.
    You never mentioned which OS you are using. The Outlook <yearversion>
    program probably won't do what you want. I don't think Thunderbird or
    most other classic clients will, either (in giving you interactive
    calendars). The Calendar for Win10 app does. I think em Client also
    does; however, I trialed them a short time, and when they start screwing
    up merging my contacts from Outlook and Google together and creating
    multiple duplications (which also appeared using the webclient) that
    made my contacts confusing to understand, I uninstalled eM Client.
    Within a week of trialing eM Client, I had half a dozen, or more, bug
    reports or feature requests (that I expected the program to have).
    In trialing eM Client, took me awhile to tweak the e-mail functions,
    then the contact functions (and debug why all the duplications showed
    up), and didn't get much time to check their calendaring functions.
    Contacts were getting screwed up, so I uninstalled before doing much
    with calendaring from multiple services (Outlook.com and Google). It
    supports Exchange, so my Outlook calendar was interactive (local changes
    were reflected in my online account), but I didn't get around to testing
    if my Google calendar was interactive in eM Client or just subscribed to
    the iCal published copy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim S@21:1/5 to VanguardLH on Sat Jul 13 23:21:37 2019
    On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 15:00:33 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

    Jim S wrote:

    Does outlook latest version sync to Google Calendar?
    If not it's no good to me.

    https://support.office.com/en-us/article/see-your-google-calendar-in-outlook-c1dab514-0ad4-4811-824a-7d02c5e77126

    While Outlook (part of Office 365) can use Exchange to synchronize your e-mails, contacts, calendar, like with a Hotmail/Live/Outlook.com
    account, Google doesn't support Exchange. Google instead has an API to access their services, but that means using Google apps instead of
    Microsoft apps.

    Outlook can "sync" (sort of) with a Google Calendar by using iCal data.
    That means the Outlook client can retrieve events from your Google
    Calendar. This is one-way sync. You cannot create calendar events in Outlook to get them pushed into your Google Calender.

    What you get in Outlook is a *copy* of your Google Calendar. That's the limitation of using iCal. Microsoft could use Google's API to do full
    sync, but if Google changed anything then Microsoft would be on the hook
    to get Outlook to match (just like how Google doesn't support
    Microsoft's Exchange since Google doesn't have control over that
    proprietary protocol).

    If you want to "sync" your Outlook Calendar into your Google Calendar,
    you do the same iCal setup, so you get a copy of your Outlook Calendar
    to see in your Google Calendar. The result is that if you want to
    create or edit events in your Google Calendar then you go there to do
    so, and then Outlook will show you a /copy/ of those events from
    Google's Calendar. Same for visa version (showing a copy of Outlook's Calendar in Google's Calendar).

    Google doesn't do Exchange. Microsoft doesn't do Google's APIs. If
    each did then they would cooperate with each other to provide a portal
    into each other services, and that's not something either wants. A
    client that does both Exchange and Google's API would allow interactive access to both calendaring services (and then try to merge or overlay
    them into a single calendar presented to the user). Outlook 2016, nor
    any prior version, does that. Google's clients don't do that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar

    My recollection is that if you way 2-way synchronization, you had to use
    a service that accepted iCal data from either service and then updated
    the other service. Instead of just reading the other calendar, you
    could also create and edit events in the other calendar. I suspect that meant the 2-way sync service needed your login credentials, so they
    could take iCal data from one end to perform the actions on the other
    end.

    iCal is to publish your calendar, so others (including yourself) can
    /see/ your calendar at a different calendering service or their client. Seeing a published calender (whether private or public) doesn't give you interactive access to that calender. You can read. You cannot create
    or edit. You need to pick which will be your primary calendaring
    service where you can create, edit, or read your events, and then, if
    you want then publish it to see elsewhere. Else, you need to employ an arbitration service that takes iCal data from one calendaring service to convert into actions performed in the other calendaring service.

    iCal sucks. You get to see the other calendar. You don't get to
    interact with the other calendar (create, edit), just read it. While
    you can see both calendars, you'll still be managing them separately.

    That's the situation with most local clients. The Calendar app for
    Windows 10 (which is a UWP/WinRT app, not a Win32 app) does seem to
    support both Outlook and Google calendars. For example, I have both my Hotmail and Google Calendars subscribed in the Calendar for Win10 app,
    and when I create a new event then I get to pick in which calendar the
    event gets created. If you aren't careful, you'll put an event in the
    wrong calendar since the default on new event is to use the same
    calendar you used before to add a new event. Since iCal is a data
    stream coming at you (and not outward), the Calendar for Win10 app must
    be supporting both Exchange and Google's API to allow interaction with
    both. On further checking, looks like Microsoft and Google decided to
    start supporting REST, but then that's all new to me, anyway, despite
    REST is actually pretty old.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_state_transfer

    I had heard of Google using REST but didn't hear Microsoft did the same.

    https://developers.google.com/photos/library/guides/about-restful-apis https://github.com/microsoft/api-guidelines

    Since Outlook (and other local clients or web clients) only support
    letting you use iCal to merely /see/ the other calendar, all you get is
    a published calendar, not an interactive one. The Calendar for Windows
    10 app looks to be interactive on both Outlook and Google calendars.
    You never mentioned which OS you are using. The Outlook <yearversion> program probably won't do what you want. I don't think Thunderbird or
    most other classic clients will, either (in giving you interactive calendars). The Calendar for Win10 app does. I think em Client also
    does; however, I trialed them a short time, and when they start screwing
    up merging my contacts from Outlook and Google together and creating
    multiple duplications (which also appeared using the webclient) that
    made my contacts confusing to understand, I uninstalled eM Client.
    Within a week of trialing eM Client, I had half a dozen, or more, bug
    reports or feature requests (that I expected the program to have).
    In trialing eM Client, took me awhile to tweak the e-mail functions,
    then the contact functions (and debug why all the duplications showed
    up), and didn't get much time to check their calendaring functions.
    Contacts were getting screwed up, so I uninstalled before doing much
    with calendaring from multiple services (Outlook.com and Google). It supports Exchange, so my Outlook calendar was interactive (local changes
    were reflected in my online account), but I didn't get around to testing
    if my Google calendar was interactive in eM Client or just subscribed to
    the iCal published copy.

    Thanks V
    I was, of course talking about the desktop version of Oulook 365.
    I guess what you're saying is that it's no different'calenderwise' than my Outlook 2010 version. I have been using Thunderbird for a while and
    although it is not as sophisticated as Outlook, it does what I ask in a
    little more 'rustic' fashion.
    I would have hated to have spent good money on upgrading to still have
    ended up with what I have already.
    --
    Jim S

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From VanguardLH@21:1/5 to Jim S on Sun Jul 14 00:57:41 2019
    Jim S wrote:

    I guess what you're saying is that it's no different'calenderwise'
    than my Outlook 2010 version. I have been using Thunderbird for a
    while and although it is not as sophisticated as Outlook, it does
    what I ask in a little more 'rustic' fashion. I would have hated to
    have spent good money on upgrading to still have ended up with what I
    have already.

    Yep, Outlook 365 still uses just iCalendar subscription: you get to see
    a published calendar using a URL to that calendar. That is view only:
    no create, no edit. To make a calendar interactive requires using
    Exchange (with a Microsoft account or a corporate domain that uses
    Exchange), Google's APIs to communicate with their services, or REST
    (which is just another but non-proprietary API). Oulook 365/2019 just
    supports iCal (to view published calendars), just as did Outlook 2016,
    2013, 2010, 2007, etc.

    Thunderbird relies on the Lightning extension for calendering functions. Lightning support 1-way (read-only) access to published calendars or
    2-way interactive access.

    https://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Using_Lightning_with_Google_Calendars

    The article indicates you still need further support to get 2-way access
    by using the Provider for Google Calendar extension or using the CalDAV protocol to access the service. CalDAV (Calendaring Extensions to
    WebDAV) is based on th old WebDAV (Web Distributed Authoring and
    Versioning) protocol.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebDAV

    Google still supports CalDAV (but I don't know for how much longer).

    https://developers.google.com/calendar/caldav/v2/guide

    As I recall, although an old version of Outlook supported WebDAV, it did
    not support CalDAV except by using an extension, like Outlook CalDAV Synchronizer (supports Microsoft and Outlook calendars, or anyone
    running a CalDAV server). CalDAV is an open standards protocol, but you
    can only use it from your client to someone running a CalDAV server.
    Microsoft has always preferred their own proprietary protocols, like
    ActiveSync and Exchange, for 2-way synchronization. So, even for
    Microsoft's own calendaring service, you used 1-way sync via iCal for
    read-only access or you used an extension that added CalDAV support into Outlook for 2-way access, or you used ActiveSync/Exchange if connecting
    their client to their services.

    So whether you use Outlook or Thunderbird, both still need an extension
    that adds CalDAV support for 2-way access to calendars, and the service
    you wish to use must be running a CalDAV server.

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  • From Juergen Nieveler@21:1/5 to Jim S on Sun Jul 14 10:48:46 2019
    Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

    I was, of course talking about the desktop version of Oulook 365.
    I guess what you're saying is that it's no different'calenderwise'
    than my Outlook 2010 version. I have been using Thunderbird for a
    while and although it is not as sophisticated as Outlook, it does what
    I ask in a little more 'rustic' fashion.
    I would have hated to have spent good money on upgrading to still have
    ended up with what I have already.

    Mind you, if all you need is Outlook on Windows to sync your calendar
    (and
    contacts?) with your Google account, that's easy... http://caldavsynchronizer.org/ should do the trick nicely

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim S@21:1/5 to Juergen Nieveler on Sun Jul 14 20:14:36 2019
    On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 10:48:46 +0200, Juergen Nieveler wrote:

    Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

    I was, of course talking about the desktop version of Oulook 365.
    I guess what you're saying is that it's no different'calenderwise'
    than my Outlook 2010 version. I have been using Thunderbird for a
    while and although it is not as sophisticated as Outlook, it does what
    I ask in a little more 'rustic' fashion.
    I would have hated to have spent good money on upgrading to still have
    ended up with what I have already.

    Mind you, if all you need is Outlook on Windows to sync your calendar
    (and
    contacts?) with your Google account, that's easy... http://caldavsynchronizer.org/ should do the trick nicely

    Looks ideal if I could only work out how to use it :?

    --
    Jim S

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jim S@21:1/5 to Juergen Nieveler on Sun Jul 14 21:00:40 2019
    On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 10:48:46 +0200, Juergen Nieveler wrote:

    Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:

    I was, of course talking about the desktop version of Oulook 365.
    I guess what you're saying is that it's no different'calenderwise'
    than my Outlook 2010 version. I have been using Thunderbird for a
    while and although it is not as sophisticated as Outlook, it does what
    I ask in a little more 'rustic' fashion.
    I would have hated to have spent good money on upgrading to still have
    ended up with what I have already.

    Mind you, if all you need is Outlook on Windows to sync your calendar
    (and
    contacts?) with your Google account, that's easy... http://caldavsynchronizer.org/ should do the trick nicely

    Got it (I think)
    How come nobody else suggested this little gem?
    Thanks
    --
    Jim S

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)