I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(2) TB HD
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)

Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB 128MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This concerns the 8500, for some reason it just stopped responding
in Firefox. I ended the process and thought it had recovered but it
continued to have problems. I restarted it and the problem continues.
I shut down the computer in hopes that would clear it. Word, Paintbrush,
and Dell imaging came up fine but Firefox took a long time for the drivers
to load and at first it seemed ok but it again it stopped responding. I had
to press the start button to power it off because Task Manager would not function.

Again it seems fine so far but I'm concerned Firefox will stop responding again. What's causing this?

I had no issues prior to this and haven't downloaded anything.

Thanks,
Robert

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I think I may have found the answer. I leave Fire fox unused
for long periods because I take breaks and it doesn't like that.
So that may be my answer but I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Robert

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It happened again ,, aII I had open was FF and Word
and it stopped responding. Again the bIue circIe was
preset and I couIdn't access Task Manager. I seIected
to power off again. ShouId I try a System Restore or
Mrimg Restore?

Thanks,
Robert

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The 8500 did it again and this time I just went to heat
my coffee in the microwave and when I came back the
screen was not responding. I tried closing the pages but
it didn't work and the round blue busy light was on. I
tried Task Manager but it didn't come up.

I clicked the start button to try and restart it and it came up
with a message about it unable to do a Ctrl-Alt-Del. I
opted to shut it down. It came back up with no issues so far.

What's causing FF/computer to not to respond and lock up?

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Thanks,
Robert

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It happened again and this time there was a buzzing sound.
I forgot to mention it did that it did that before as weII.
After pushing ESC the screen went back and gave me the ctr-aIt-deI
message again. I have to keep pressing Esc to access the Start button
to try and restart it or shut it off but its not responding.

What's causing this? It was fine yesterday. Am I Ioosing the 8500?

Robert

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The 8500 starts normally with no issues, and I
can load Word, Paintbrush and Dell imaging
with no problems and it works just fine.

The problems start when I open FF, it seems OK
at first then while halfway through a news story
or video it will stop responding.

Why should it all of a sudden have a problem with
FF? I checked for updates and I'm up to date. All the
scans show nothing at all and I haven't done anything
to cause this. It just came out of no where like most of
my computer problems.


Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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The 8500 starts normally with no issues, and I
can load Word, Paintbrush and Dell imaging
with no problems and ti works just fine.

The problems start when I open FF, it seems OK
at first then while halfway through a news story
or video it will stop responding.

Why should it all of a sudden have a problem with
FF? I checked for updates and I'm up to date. All the
scans show nothing at all and I haven't done anything
to cause this. It just came out of no where like most of
my computer problems.


Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

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"Robert in CA" <magineer02@yahoo.com> wrote

| Thoughts/suggestions?

If you expect to have tech support people on call then
you should be paying someone to do it, not exploiting
Paul's generosity.

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I believe I know what's causing the problem. I
overextended my use of the computer with too
many windows/programs open. That would also
explain the buzzing sound.

I had noticed previously that Avast scanning stopped
responding when I opened FF. That should of told
me something.

I was about to do a System Restore when it all seemed
OK? I was able to regain control of the computer and
all seems fine now. I made a System Restore point just
in case.

I run the scans by themselves with nothing else running now.
Also, I only open what I need to use and I haven't have
any problems since.

I still would appreciate your thoughts and insight and I
have a couple of questions.

Thanks,
Robert

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Paul I need to ask you a couple of questions.

Thanks,
Robert

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On 9/21/2023 5:14 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Paul I need to ask you a couple of questions.

Thanks,
Robert

It sounds like Firefox is using up RAM on the
computer, to the point it starved other parts
of the software of RAM they need.

That could be why it is behaving like that.

The combination of an older version of Firefox, plus
the issues with leaving tabs open on those older versions,
lead to excessive RAM consumption.

Check your version of Firefox. This is Windows 7
so there is a limit to the Firefox version number now.

Installing the ESR version, should put you on the ESR stream
and remove the old version. The profile folder should migrate forward.
Make a backup of your bookmarks, at least, before bumping the version.

https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2023/07/06/firefox-support-for-windows-7-8-and-8-1/

The listing here is a little hard to read, as the 115 releases are
broken into two groups by the alphabetical ordering. ESRs receive updates,
and for this one, the stream stops Sept 2024.

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/115.3.1esr/win64/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%20115.3.1esr.exe # 64 bit
http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/115.3.1esr/win32/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%20115.3.1esr.exe # 32 bit

You can tell from which Program Files folder Firefox is in,
whether it is 32 bit or 64 bit.

C:\Program Files <=== 64 bit
C:\Program Files (x86) <=== 32 bit

*******

(Posting from paganini, Mixmin seems closed to posting, E-S is down at the moment.)

Paul

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Hi Paul,


I thought I had lost you! whew!

The problem is as you described so now I only open
what's needed then close it and the problem has gone
away.

I checked FF and this is what is says:

https://postimg.cc/8JQwb2Yh

I backed up my bookmarks and put it on a Patriot key

Should I click on this one after backing up my bookmarks?

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/115.3.1esr/win64/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%20115.3.1esr.exe # 64 bit

This is the kind of thing I need you for.

I think while we still have contact, I'd like to move my
bookmarks and all my folders/files from the 8500 to
the 780 just in case I should loose the 8500 at some
point. Is that possible?

Right now we've left the 780 with just what it needs as a backup
computer to keep it as clean as possible so it has no folders or files
and a minimum of bookmarks but I'm afraid if we don't do it now
and we loose contact I won't be able to.

Should I configure the 780 the same way as were doing to
FF on the 8500? but how could I keep the 780 updated?
I couldn't use the 8500 mrimgs with the 780, correct?

I think if we could configure the 780 the same as the 8500 I would need
another Seagate 6TB external HD and enclosure. What do you think?

https://www.newegg.com/seagate-desktop-hdd-st6000dm001-6tb/p/N82E16822178783

https://www.newegg.com/vantec-nst-387s3-bk-enclosure/p/N82E16817392118

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I clicked on

http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/115.3.1esr/win64/en-US/Firefox%20Setup%20115.3.1esr.exe # 64 bit

and it shows it completed:

https://postimg.cc/cKZmGYQV

I'll do the same thing to the 780.

In passing, remember the cd player where the door
wouldn't open? I bought some contact cleaner and
sprayed it around the open button and now it's
operational again.

Robert

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I ran mrimg backups in both the 780 and the 8500.

So how do I go about transferring my bookmarks
and data from the 8500 to the 780?

Once finished I'll order the 6TB external hd and
case. I'd appreciate it if you could help me set it
up.

Thanks,
Robert
l

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The 8500 hung up again with loud buzzing.
I pressed the start button a couple of times and
it took forever to respond. It finally came back
up but it didn't seem right so I restarted it but it
just hung there and I was forced to power it off/on.
I selected normal startup and came back up with no
issues.

I had only 3 windows open in FF when it hung up. I
also I detected this maleware .

https://postimg.cc/mzFJ78V1

Isn't version 3.1 the update to FF ? That's the only
thing I've downloaded.

I would really like your assistance to put my bookmarks
and data on the 780 while we still can.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/6/2023 8:36 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

The 8500 hung up again with loud buzzing.
I pressed the start button a couple of times and
it took forever to respond. It finally came back
up but it didn't seem right so I restarted it but it
just hung there and I was forced to power it off/on.
I selected normal startup and came back up with no
issues.

I had only 3 windows open in FF when it hung up. I
also I detected this maleware .

https://postimg.cc/mzFJ78V1

Isn't version 3.1 the update to FF ? That's the only
thing I've downloaded.

I would really like your assistance to put my bookmarks
and data on the 780 while we still can.

Thanks,
Robert

Time for a restore from one of your backups ?

Use a Macrium CD to do the restore ?

I cannot find a reference to that item. The search engines
seem to shy away from the name, giving all sorts of irrelevant
results.

C:\Users\RB\Downloads\App_version 3.1.msi

You can upload the file to virustotal.com using a web browser,
but if that does not work, that probably means the machine is
compromised. Don't open that file, on any other
machine.

*******

For making bookmarks.html , I don't know if I can be
a good source of current information.

I don't know what version you're running. windows 7 SP1 support for
Firefox has ended, which means, if you were auto-updating, there might
be a nuisance notification telling you that Firefox is no longer
supported (Firefox puts up a notice to that effect).

This advice will probably work. Enter in the URL box:

about:profiles

and that will show the path to the profile folder.

Now, we used to have discussions about this folder,

bookmarkbackups

yet, in the end, we never seemed to get much traction from
there. In the latest Firefox, I find out that -

1) Automatic bookmark backup has stopped.
2) There is a setting in about:config, which claims to control
bookmarkbackups, and it *might* be dumping an actual
"bookmarks.html" file in the profile folder.

Therefore, you might check in the Profile folder from the
"about:profiles" step and see if a file with a very recent
date is in there.

The only file in the bookmarkbackups folder, is 1.4KB, and
that cannot possibly hold my backup files.

But don't despair, as the raw materials for making bookmarks
are here.

"Bookmarks, Downloads and Browsing History

places.sqlite

This file contains all your Firefox bookmarks and lists of files you have downloaded
and of websites you have previously visited. For more information, see Bookmarks in Firefox.

favicons.sqlite

This file stores website favicon images. It's best to also include this file when
recovering the places.sqlite file.
"

If you have those files (and you will), then the bookmarks are in there.

So nothing is lost.

But at this point, I don't want you running around with
your hair on fire, just yet :-)

*******

Of course, the Bookmarks tab in the middle of the browser has:

Bookmarks :
Manage Bookmarks :
Import and Backup :
Export bookmarks to HTML

And when I selected a place to save that, the file size of mine
was 815,349 and was the same size as the "bookmarks.html" in
my Profile folder. So you can make one that way, but in your
machines sick condition, can you do that right now ???

I cannot tell you from this distance, whether the bookmark making
process is working properly or not.

Paul

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On 10/2/2023 3:25 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I ran mrimg backups in both the 780 and the 8500.

So how do I go about transferring my bookmarks
and data from the 8500 to the 780?

Once finished I'll order the 6TB external hd and
case. I'd appreciate it if you could help me set it
up.

Thanks,
Robert
l

"Data", would be your Downloads folder, where ever you
placed your Bookmarks file, and perhaps if you wanted,
the profile for Firefox. Your email tool might have a
profile folder as well.

Your backup image of the 8500, has all your user files in it.
It does not need to be restored, to be useful. The following
picture, shows how to scoop random files out of a Macrium backup.

If you place a copy of the 8500 MRIMG on the 780,
you can mount the OS partition with a separate drive
letter.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/7Zs0Yjk0/scoop-files-from-Macrium-MRIMG-file.gif

Paul

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Hi Paul,

Good to hear from you again,,

I did about:profiles, I see the Profile Default with Root Directory
and Local Directory and is repeated for Profile default-release.
I went into the Root Directory and there was a bookmarkbackup
folder that was updated for today. Then I went into the Local
Directory and there was a Cache2 and jumpList cache that was
updated for today. The Profile default -release showed no
recent activity. In fact, bookmarkbackups was 2019.

You lost me after that... I cannot seem to access places.sqlite or favicons.sqlite with about:profile. How do I access them?

I have my Downloads under C:/User name but I have allot of
information in My Documents as well I would want to carry over.

So I would be right clicking to copy/ paste the bookmarksbackup
and my Documents? Is it possible to just do a restore of the 780
with the 8500 Mrimg?


Thanks,
Robert

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The 8500 seems normaI at present with no issues.
I'm running another mrimg since the Iast one had
the maIeware on it. Do you think it's the RAMM that
was overIoaded? I'II teII you that buzzing sound
was unnerving.

I used Avast to remove the maIeware fiIe :
C:\Users\RB\Downloads\App_version 3.1.msi

FF is up to date, I'm running version 115.3.1esr (64 bit)
I wasn't auto-updating so I haven't seen any notifications.
I ran through the bookmark tab to find aII the functions
as you describe.

I'm not sure I understand the process I'm suppose to do?
Am I Exporting to htm and do I put it on a USB key then
import it to the 780?
It appears I'm copy/pasting the bookmarkbackups and
My Documents using the mrimg to the 780, correct?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/8/2023 3:24 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

The 8500 seems normaI at present with no issues.
I'm running another mrimg since the Iast one had
the maIeware on it. Do you think it's the RAMM that
was overIoaded? I'II teII you that buzzing sound
was unnerving.

I used Avast to remove the maIeware fiIe :
C:\Users\RB\Downloads\App_version 3.1.msi

FF is up to date, I'm running version 115.3.1esr (64 bit)
I wasn't auto-updating so I haven't seen any notifications.
I ran through the bookmark tab to find aII the functions
as you describe.

I'm not sure I understand the process I'm suppose to do?
Am I Exporting to htm and do I put it on a USB key then
import it to the 780?
It appears I'm copy/pasting the bookmarkbackups and
My Documents using the mrimg to the 780, correct?

Thanks,
Robert

It is unlikely to be the RAM.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220107171652/http://www.memtest.org/

https://web.archive.org/web/20220308174549if_/http://memtest.org/download/5.31b/memtest86+-5.31b.iso.zip

The second link is the download for memtest 5.31b . It is zipped, so
you would right click and Extract.

The memtest86+-5.31b.iso is an ISO9660 and can be burned onto a CD
with Imgburn. It's a waste of media for a tiny thing like this, but
the floppy diskette version stopped with the previous version. The floppy version is interesting, in that there is no file system on the floppy,
and the loader is a binary bitstream loader. Even though both my machines
no longer have floppy drives, the memtest floppy boots using a USB floppy drive, so I haven't lost that function.

Some of my tools, I used a CD-RW disc so the disc can be reused.
Currently I have a USB stick dedicated to memtest 6.0 beta, and
that's what I test the Zen3 with. The 4930K can use one of the
older versions, like the 5.31b.

*******

Windows also has a memory tester. It has the usual Windows bad habit,
that if you leave the room, you might never know the results. All I want,
is for the tool to STOP and show the result on the screen. Is that too
hard for them ?

In any case, you can find a memory tester, if you need one. The memtest
one, you press <esc> key and it reboots. Seeing the pass counter equal to one (one complete test pass), that's sufficient for stuck-ats.

Paul

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I tried extracting again:

https://postimg.cc/HJxwXqwv

I must be doing something wrong.

Robert

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The second link doesn't extract:

https://postimg.cc/kVjJD0GM

Before we analyze the 8500 memory I
would like to move the bookmarks and
data to the 780 while we still can.

I'm still not sure about the procedure of
moving bookmarks.

Here's my profile; I blocked out portions
for safety but this is what I see on my profiles.

https://postimg.cc/D8sYZ108

I did a HD-Tune scan:

https://postimg.cc/PPpCjttM

https://postimg.cc/T5y3f9XP

I was concerned about these yellow bars.

https://postimg.cc/MXhW11Sy


Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/9/2023 12:04 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried extracting again:

https://postimg.cc/HJxwXqwv

I must be doing something wrong.

Robert

You can try navigating to the Downloads folder.

The convenience function "Show in Folder" in the menu
you show in that picture, should get you there with
no effort.

Once the folder is open and it scrolled to where the file is,
you should be able to extract a ZIP with the Windows7 automatic
treatment of ZIP files. And perhaps that will work better for
you, as when you're using File Explorer, it can immediately see
it is a ZIP and ready to be extracted.

This shows I see a valid file there, ready to be processed.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/FKcns3MM/memtest531-being-extracted.gif

*******

You can carry out the Bookmarks Export function, then collect
it from the Downloads folder or where-ever, and copy it to a USB
stick if you want. The suggestion of tapping into an .MRIMG
you make after that point in time, is the file would also be
inside the .MRIMG on a hard drive. The important thing, is to
at least carry out the Export function now, for your later
convenience (using one or the other transfer method).

My only point of explaining about the .MRIMG being mount-able,
is you haven't lost anything. There might be several copies of
your goods in the room with you.

Just use whatever method seems easiest to you. A USB stick would
be pretty easy. You probably have a working AV running on the
other machine, ready to scan the USB stick when it arrives. A bookmarks
is not particularly "executable content", not like an EXE file
would be.

Paul

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I tried navigating to the folder to extract the zip file but I don't
know how to proceed? What am I suppose to do with this ISO file?

I thought it would download a memory test program to test the memory?

https://postimg.cc/yDSkrFv5

https://postimg.cc/grJcTV0D

Thanks,
Robert

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btw did those yellow bars in the HD-Tune Heath tab mean anything?

Robert

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I'll also need another 6TB HD and case.

https://www.newegg.com/seagate-desktop-hdd-st6000dm001-6tb/p/N82E16822178783

https://www.newegg.com/vantec-nst-387s3-bk-enclosure/p/N82E16817392118

Usually we make the hd drives bootable but if I
remember correctly I just created a folder for
the 8500 mrimgs and nothing else on the 6TB
external hd. So I think I should do the same for
the 780 but with no OS how is that possible?

I can't remember how we set up the 6TB hd.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I successfully exported my bookmarks to the 780.

I went into bookmarks>manage bookmarks>import and backup>export bookmarks to HTML
then on the 780 I went to bookmarks>manage bookmarks> import and backup> import bookmarks from HTML

It all seems to be there.

Wasn't there some other file you wanted me to move over? Oh the data file,
what was that called? and where? Then I can mount the external hd and move
my entire My Documents with copy/paste correct? or is there another method you recommend?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/10/2023 12:39 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried navigating to the folder to extract the zip file but I don't
know how to proceed? What am I suppose to do with this ISO file?

I thought it would download a memory test program to test the memory?

https://postimg.cc/yDSkrFv5

https://postimg.cc/grJcTV0D

Thanks,
Robert

I have a burner program set up on my PC, called Imgburn,
and it puts entries in the right-click menu. I can right-click
the extracted ISO file in my Downloads, and start the Imgburn program
from there.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/SxkgpdC3/burn-iso-win7-to-CD.gif

If you were starting the Imgburn program from the Program menu,
the upper-left-corner "Write image file to disc", unpacks
the ISO and uses it to fill the CD with the info. The ISO
file in this case, is only 1.8MB and it is just a bit
bigger than a floppy. It uses very little of a CD, and the burn
time should be minimal. I have mine set to burn and then Verify.

Imgburn can be set to make rude noises when the command completes,
so you want to turn down the PC audio volume in the taskbar.

Once the CD is burned, you can leave in the tray, do a Restart
of the OS, and since your CD is in the boot order before the
hard drive (in the Dell BIOS), the CD should start. Once memtest
is started, you can pop the CD out of the tray at any time.

*******

The Yellow Bars in the HDTune SMART are "nothing". This is an issue
where the HDTune developer (ten years ago), didn't decode the
Seagate branded drive stuff there properly, and yellow bars is the result.
Your Reallocated raw data is zero in SMART, and that's a good start.

Getting a valid HDTune benchmark curve is tricky. Sometimes the OS
reads the disk, while the HDTune runs, and that is what causes the
downward spikes. The very best OS for running an HDTune, is Windows 2000,
but you are hardly likely to switch to that to test :-) That was a very
quiet OS, and did not tend to interfere with the test results.

I don't have any particular techniques for improving the results
(making them more realistic). In the following picture, I have two disks,
the second one is a "data disk" and does not have the OS on it, and I test
that in the picture. The OS drive, you have to leave it for a while,
to settle down. You can see my spikes mostly went away.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/fTc6XBsT/Win7-HDTune-Benchmark-two-drives.gif

Paul

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btw how Iong does this test take? It's
been going for an hour now.

On the bottom of the screen it says:
Pass compIete, no errors, press Esc to exit

yet it stiII seems Iike it's running. How do
I know when it's finished?

Robert

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I'm on the 780;
I created a Memtest86 CD with ImageBurn and
restarted the 8500 but I have to press F12 to
access the opticaI CD drive. I beIieve we tried to fix
that previousIy but we couIdn't. The 780 however
detects CD's.

The Memtest is stiII running and it's on test#10 right
now. [ModuIo 20, Random pattern] hmmmm it just
switched to test#5 [moving inversions, 8 bit pattern]
then switched again to #6[moving inversions, Random pattern]

I'II Iet you know the resuts when it finish's.
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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It compIeted 1 pass with no errors.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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You're right about HD-Tune. I powered off the 8500 then
powered it back on and waited for 1 hour. I didn't open any
programs then ran HD-Tune.

https://postimg.cc/qtrPbpDP

It looks just like the other one.

Is there anything else besides My Documents I should
move to the 780? In passing, I made a System Restore
point on the 780.

Thanks
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Here's a picture of the Memtest in progress.

https://postimg.cc/0b0NNPXc

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/10/2023 2:05 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I'll also need another 6TB HD and case.

https://www.newegg.com/seagate-desktop-hdd-st6000dm001-6tb/p/N82E16822178783

https://www.newegg.com/vantec-nst-387s3-bk-enclosure/p/N82E16817392118

Usually we make the hd drives bootable but if I
remember correctly I just created a folder for
the 8500 mrimgs and nothing else on the 6TB
external hd. So I think I should do the same for
the 780 but with no OS how is that possible?

I can't remember how we set up the 6TB hd.

Robert

The purpose of the boot-able drives, is so you'd have
something for emergencies.

You don't have to set up every drive that way, if you don't want to.

But there is certain comfort, in knowing you have a drive
that will work, when the regular drive is ruined.

When you get a new drive, you can use Macrium Reflect,
to clone only the OS partition(s) that make the
previous backup drive bootable. And avoid copying the
Data partition with all the MRIMG files in it (which would take hours).

The boot partition, is best suited to the machine the disk
is paired with. The license would remain activated, for the
780 drive paired with the 780, perhaps. I don't like to take
chances with moving older OSes around in the room, because
that might break something.

If however, you have sufficient control of your machine so it
won't attempt to boot off the wrong drive, you can always move
a data drive to the opposite machine so you can access the
Data partition.

Using diskmgmt.msc , is the best way to "review" what is on
each drive. If you have applied text labels to the partitions, that
helps jog your memory in later years, as to what is what. For example,
if I label the partition "Win10AMD" or "Win10Intel", then I will
know which machine that is for. I can check the labels using my
Linux maintenance media, before attempting to boot them and
ruin something :-) The drives also have stuff written on the
metal surfaces that are large enough to write on. The Helium drive,
nothing is written on that one. That's because it will be the
only Helium drive in the room. There is no way to know how long the
Helium drive will last. The warranty says "five years". It has no OS
and only holds data.

The cheapest hard drives here right now, are WD Black 1TB boot drives,
and the lowest price on those was around $66 or so. The price has gone
back up now, so they're not quite as attractive. Those are the drive(s)
with OSes on them. Typically three OSes per drive, and a large data
partition for scratch. The Helium drive doesn't need an OS, because
I will be using the Macrium CD any time the Helium drive is plugged in.
The helium drive doesn't fit in the tray, and the holes for mounting
are in the wrong place. The drive is a damn nuisance.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/10/2023 1:57 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I successfully exported my bookmarks to the 780.

I went into bookmarks>manage bookmarks>import and backup>export bookmarks to HTML
then on the 780 I went to bookmarks>manage bookmarks> import and backup> import bookmarks from HTML

It all seems to be there.

Wasn't there some other file you wanted me to move over? Oh the data file, what was that called? and where? Then I can mount the external hd and move
my entire My Documents with copy/paste correct? or is there another method you
recommend?

Thanks,
Robert

The bookmarks is the important one for Firefox.

For your email tool, whatever it is, you'd want to keep
a copy of the folder where the emails are kept. Some
tools use a .pst file, some tools use an MBOX (no file
extension on the end, making them hard to find). Individual
mails can be stored as .eml files, and only a few tools
will maintain the actual local storage that way. An MBOX
is just so much more convenient (it holds all the emails in
the Inbox, or all the emails in the Sent, and so on).

If you have favorite tools, you might want to transport
the installers for those, to the other platform.

I try not to "reorganize stuff", because that is work :-)

I bring a "bucket" over next to a "bucket", and pick from
one of the buckets, according to my knowledge of what is
in each bucket.

local_folder

imported_folder <=== visit here, if I think lost material is in here.

Like, when it comes to photos, they're not stored in a labeled tree.
And yes, that makes it hard to find stuff. I can always tag stuff, such as

picture-house-123-Main-Street.jpg

and then if I remember the street number, I could search on "123" perhaps.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I already moved my email over to the 780 so it's OK.

We can make the 6TB bootable and maybe that's what
we did last time for the other 6TB?

I ran a Memtest on the 780 with 1 pass, no errors.

I also attached the 6TB external hd with the 8500 mrimgs
to the 780 and tried to change the drive letter.

https://postimg.cc/rdcy38rZ

https://postimg.cc/647Bnqkq

What am I doing wrong?

Even though I successfully exportd the bookmarks to the 780
I'm still not following what your saying here. I don't see these
files.


"Bookmarks, Downloads and Browsing History

places.sqlite

This file contains all your Firefox bookmarks and lists of files you have downloaded
and of websites you have previously visited. For more information, see Bookmarks in Firefox.

favicons.sqlite

This file stores website favicon images. It's best to also include this file when
recovering the places.sqlite file.

also this:

"Data", would be your Downloads folder, where ever you
placed your Bookmarks file, and perhaps if you wanted,
the profile for Firefox. Your email tool might have a
profile folder as well.

So your saying I should copy/paste my Downloads folder
to the 780? How could I place my 8500 profile on the 780
and what would be the advantages of doing that?


Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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After thinking about it we must have made the 6TB hd a bootable drive because that's
what you would of recommended and what we have been doing all along. I just forgot the procedure for cloning it but the procedure has changed some and is very
automatic now with only a few steps for mrimg backups so I assume cloning has also
changed. I remember I have to put it inside the 780 and let it boot.

I don't have any favorite tools per se except the Dell Image Expert 2000,Word, Excel
and of course all the antivirus and maleware e.g., Avast, SuperAntiSpware, Malewarebytes, Spywareblaster but I worry about having up to date downloads
for them. You know my history. Maybe you should review my links for each to see if they are OK.

Avast- https://www.avast.com/installation-files#pc

Avast removal - https://www.avast.com/uninstall-utility#pc

Malewarebytes - https://www.malwarebytes.com/

SuperAntispyware - https://www.superantispyware.com/

SpywareBlaster - http://www.brightfort.com/


They are already installed on the 780 except Word and Excel. I have the original CD's
that came with the 8200 but apparently I could only use it (3) times which I've done
because they won't load on the 780. I really need Word and Excel on the 780 if I ever
loose the 8500. Is there some way of doing it?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I forgot,

HD-Tune - http://www.hdtune.com/download.html (click on the trial to download?)

AdwCleaner - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/adwcleaner/

Imgeburn- http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-0-0

Agent Ransack - https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/download/

GeForce Drivers - https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/drivers/

Microsoft - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download

I'm missing a VLC player download, could you please provide one?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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If the computer problem isn't RAMM or the memory because we
did the Memtest86 or the hd because I did the HD-Tune what could
it be that caused the humming? Is it possible my power supply is going?

I do have (2) spare power supply's that you helped me purchase awhile
back but I sure would hate to change power supply's. That would be tricky
and I don't know if I'm up to it.

Right now the 8500 is running normally with no issues.

Thoughts, suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tried again but still getting it wrong:

https://postimg.cc/HcdHhktt

https://postimg.cc/mh6fQwKj

https://postimg.cc/2L1tHsgw

https://postimg.cc/K4CpGsd6

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-10-10 20:15, Robert in CA wrote:

I already moved my email over to the 780 so it's OK.

We can make the 6TB bootable and maybe that's what
we did last time for the other 6TB?

I ran a Memtest on the 780 with 1 pass, no errors.

I also attached the 6TB external hd with the 8500 mrimgs
to the 780 and tried to change the drive letter.

https://postimg.cc/rdcy38rZ

https://postimg.cc/647Bnqkq

What am I doing wrong?

Even though I successfully exportd the bookmarks to the 780
I'm still not following what your saying here. I don't see these
files.

When using the Windows OS in the normal way, the drive letter capability
is in Disk Management ("diskmgmt.msc").

*******

You are in Macrium Reflect, and appear to have taken a screenshot in there. Macrium Reflect CD has a "fake File Explorer", but I'm not aware of a
"fake Disk Management" to make this easy.

Open the Macrium Reflect terminal (... Command Prompt).

diskpart.exe

list disk
select disk 0
list volume
select volume 2 # You do this for devices that have drive letters, but you want to change it
assign letter=k # I changed my S: drive to K: drive.
exit

Now, close the fake File Explorer, and open it again, and
see if the letter has changed.

"Bookmarks, Downloads and Browsing History

places.sqlite

This file contains all your Firefox bookmarks and lists of files you have downloaded
and of websites you have previously visited. For more information, see Bookmarks in Firefox.

favicons.sqlite

This file stores website favicon images. It's best to also include this file when
recovering the places.sqlite file.

also this:

"Data", would be your Downloads folder, where ever you
placed your Bookmarks file, and perhaps if you wanted,
the profile for Firefox. Your email tool might have a
profile folder as well.

So your saying I should copy/paste my Downloads folder
to the 780? How could I place my 8500 profile on the 780
and what would be the advantages of doing that?

Thanks,
Robert

For this previous section, I was describing which files inside the
Firefox profile folder, have your Bookmark information. If you had
a broken computer and could no longer use the Export function, those
two SQLITE files contain the information used for Bookmarks.

Your home directory has data. But, it has a lot of it. Copying
the entire Home directory might be 20GB. Similarly, the Downloads
folder might have a large quantity of material. Whether you want or
need this material, is up to you.

Lots of stuff also hides in AppData, a hidden folder, and it has
"local" and "roaming". Some of the data copy procedures, for saving
browser Profile folders or email Profile folders, will tell you how
to locate them in AppData.

This is why I tried to encourage making a Macrium Backup, and
in some Windows, mounting the backup MRIMG file using the right
click menu, and then you can copy an materials or portion of
materials, according to a recipe you can find for doing it. Because
when you do it that way, you have some assurance "you haven't lost anything".

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-10-11 05:15, Robert in CA wrote:

After thinking about it we must have made the 6TB hd a bootable drive because that's
what you would of recommended and what we have been doing all along. I just forgot the procedure for cloning it but the procedure has changed some and is very
automatic now with only a few steps for mrimg backups so I assume cloning has also
changed. I remember I have to put it inside the 780 and let it boot.

I don't have any favorite tools per se except the Dell Image Expert 2000,Word, Excel
and of course all the antivirus and maleware e.g., Avast, SuperAntiSpware, Malewarebytes, Spywareblaster but I worry about having up to date downloads for them. You know my history. Maybe you should review my links for each to see
if they are OK.

Avast- https://www.avast.com/installation-files#pc

Avast removal - https://www.avast.com/uninstall-utility#pc

Malewarebytes - https://www.malwarebytes.com/

SuperAntispyware - https://www.superantispyware.com/

SpywareBlaster - http://www.brightfort.com/

They are already installed on the 780 except Word and Excel. I have the original CD's
that came with the 8200 but apparently I could only use it (3) times which I've done
because they won't load on the 780. I really need Word and Excel on the 780 if I ever
loose the 8500. Is there some way of doing it?

Robert

I'm sure your links will work out for you.

For Word and Excel, the question would be:

1) Ability to just print them off.

2) Ability to do authentic changes to the documents,
for sending to the government or whatever.

LibreOffice is free. I only recommend installing this, if you cannot
get the Windows one to work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LibreOffice

https://www.libreoffice.org/download/download-libreoffice/

I do not know enough about Office installs, to know what will happen.
If a license is installed too many times, you may have to use an
automated phone system, to exchange 56 digit codes. (You send a code,
they send one back.) Some products, like FPP, may include transfer
rights, such that when you install on a new machine, the old machine
copy is disabled, or, you have to carry out a "disable" operation
then an uninstall, on the old machine, to free up a license. I don't
know what's going to work in your case. And Microsoft does not want
their tools giving useful information -- that makes the job too easy.
You cannot ask questions such as "is this key valid", because
that's what a hacker would do -- make a random key, phone up, see
if they won the lottery.

When a license is locked out, you can talk to a human operator.
They can fix it the first time. The second time you're locked out,
you may not get it fixed.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 2023-10-11 05:28, Robert in CA wrote:

I forgot,

HD-Tune - http://www.hdtune.com/download.html (click on the trial to download?)

AdwCleaner - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/adwcleaner/

Imgeburn- http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-0-0

Agent Ransack - https://www.mythicsoft.com/agentransack/download/

GeForce Drivers - https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/drivers/

Microsoft - https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download

I'm missing a VLC player download, could you please provide one?

Thanks,
Robert

There is a button on the main page, for a download.

https://www.videolan.org/

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

For this previous section, I was describing which files inside the
Firefox profile folder, have your Bookmark information. If you had
a broken computer and could no longer use the Export function, those
two SQLITE files contain the information used for Bookmarks.

I finally found the files you're talking about in Profiles. So should I copy/paste
places.sqlite and favincons to the 780? or the entire Profile? How would
I move my Profile to the 780?

Your home directory has data. But, it has a lot of it. Copying
the entire Home directory might be 20GB. Similarly, the Downloads
folder might have a large quantity of material. Whether you want or
need this material, is up to you.

By home data you mean my Profile? I think the only thing I need is the
links to the downloads not the downloads themselves and 'My Documents'
where I have allot of information.

Lots of stuff also hides in AppData, a hidden folder, and it has
"local" and "roaming". Some of the data copy procedures, for saving
browser Profile folders or email Profile folders, will tell you how
to locate them in AppData.


If App data is hidden how do I transfer App data from the 8500 to the 780?
I'll do whatever you recommend best.

This is why I tried to encourage making a Macrium Backup, and
in some Windows, mounting the backup MRIMG file using the right
click menu, and then you can copy an materials or portion of
materials, according to a recipe you can find for doing it. Because
when you do it that way, you have some assurance "you haven't lost anything".

I've been trying but I'm doing something wrong because when I right click
it, it doesn't give me the Explore option. I can't proceed if I can't change the drive letter.

When a license is locked out, you can talk to a human operator.
They can fix it the first time. The second time you're locked out,
you may not get it fixed.

I'll work on that and try calling Microsft and see if they can release the
the key but I don't understand making up a random key? How could
that help?

Thanks for the downloads of the VLC player and LibreOffice which I think
I'll put on the 780 if I can't get the Word/Excel CD's to work. I'll try it again.
I would hate to loose Excel because I keep allot of information there. However, I
see LibreOffice has many similar programs.

Right now, we need to focus on the mrimgs and copy/pasting 'My Documents'
and any other files you recommend.

At the end of the month I'll order the 6TB hd and case and then we can set that up as a bootable hd for 780 mrimgs

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I just tried the Word/Excel CD that came with the 8200
and I was able to download them successfully to the 780.
So now it has Word and Excel on it. I still may add the LibreOffice.

Were making progress

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I meant I was able to install Word and Excel on the 780
of course.

Now all I need is to get the mrimg to work so I can move
'My Documents' to the 780. I have allot of data in there
including my Excel files. That's where I store everything.

When I try right clicking the mrimg drive or Mrimg itself it
doesn't give me the Explore option as in your instructions
it gives me Open. So I can't change the drive letter to K:

What am I doing wrong?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/14/2023 4:21 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I meant I was able to install Word and Excel on the 780
of course.

Now all I need is to get the mrimg to work so I can move
'My Documents' to the 780. I have allot of data in there
including my Excel files. That's where I store everything.

When I try right clicking the mrimg drive or Mrimg itself it
doesn't give me the Explore option as in your instructions
it gives me Open. So I can't change the drive letter to K:

What am I doing wrong?

1) Start Macrium
2) Menu bar "Restore" : "Browse for an Image"
From the resulting file dialog, select the MRIMG you want to mount.
3) (Of the Backup/Restore/Log tabs, the Restore should be highlighted)
Over on the right, the name of the MRIMG should now be displayed.
The options are Browse Image, Restore Image, Other Actions.

4) Select Browse Image.

The selector box you were not able to reach,
with the place to select letter K: , should now be on the screen.

5) When you want to remove K: again (unmount), then go to File Explorer,
find K: on the left hand side, right-click it and select the
"Macrium Reflect" item in the context menu that appears. The
side scroll item, there is only one item, and that's what you use
to unmount the K: virtual drive. There will be a UAC prompt (if Macrium isn't
running its normal main screen), and then the operation will happen.
If the K: File Explorer window was open, it will close and disappear.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I followed your instructions and I was able to change the letter of the drive but it
wouldn't let me access 'My Documents'. I don't understand it because I had
to sign in as Administrator to my User Account when I shouldn't have to yet
I was denied. Should I try this on the Administrator's Account?

I was also able to unmount K: as you instructed.

I blocked out account names for safety.

https://postimg.cc/JyhbWTcj

https://postimg.cc/HJPbWQBR

https://postimg.cc/JygBCRhW

https://postimg.cc/crmg4RJh

https://postimg.cc/wyL3KJPh

https://postimg.cc/K1WYRJhP

https://postimg.cc/QHHkBNFv

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I went into the 780 under the Administrator Account this time.
It gave me the same response as on the User Account, denied.
How could I be denied from the Administrator's Account?
I blocked out portions for safety.

https://postimg.cc/TyNvVsRh
https://postimg.cc/4K7B026Y
https://postimg.cc/MXVKwW6D
https://postimg.cc/CzZK2jZR
https://postimg.cc/3Wq82dLY
https://postimg.cc/64fhJDbh
https://postimg.cc/30xZhLM5
https://postimg.cc/758TMBBH
https://postimg.cc/ZBdScLsm
https://postimg.cc/8swSbstj
https://postimg.cc/XX1PJ5sc
https://postimg.cc/5XSqHdxd
https://postimg.cc/zyTqZNnh
https://postimg.cc/sB06TQv4

I blocked out the numbers of the Account Unknown
for safety but I have them if you need them.

https://postimg.cc/tZQS00Ns
https://postimg.cc/ct68XCtw
https://postimg.cc/LqC9vTtQ
https://postimg.cc/DS77TD5Y
https://postimg.cc/TKkvXPKp
https://postimg.cc/9rV6R9TD
I then tried to go into my Administrators Account. same thing https://postimg.cc/YL7sFcv5

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I was denied access.

Thoughts/suggestions,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/17/2023 8:41 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I was denied access.

Thoughts/suggestions,
Robert

At which step were you denied access ?

You need to be using an account belonging to Administrator Group,
for a lot of computer activities. For example, if you plug in
an external hard drive in a USB enclosure, the ownership could be a
name from the other machine, which "means nothing" to the current
computer. Using your Administrator capabilities, a green bar will
go across the screen in the File Explorer input box and this may
indicate that File Explorer is doing an implicit "Take Own" of the
folder on the drive you're trying to get into.

See if belonging to the Administrator group helps.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I took screenshots of all the steps in my previous post
and I was on the Administrators Account when I tried this.
I was trying to access the User Account and was denied:

https://postimg.cc/Xp2PBQh3

https://postimg.cc/fSRKwhMd

https://postimg.cc/1nJG7YD3

https://postimg.cc/cg4Y3MPy

I checked the security tabs:

https://postimg.cc/r0kTZfM3

I blocked out the numbers of the Account Unknown
for safety but I have them if you need them.

https://postimg.cc/dhZKqb0g

https://postimg.cc/qgvSJPbQ

https://postimg.cc/zyKP28vD

https://postimg.cc/CBPvnKP7

https://postimg.cc/Mct5gTSw

https://postimg.cc/K1DDgz4T

I then tried the Administrators Account

https://postimg.cc/nCZs91md

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I don't understand, I was in the Administrator Account
trying to access the User Account and it still denied me.

Could the problem be sharing? It says not shared.

https://postimg.cc/0KJQB0Kv

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/21/2023 5:42 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I don't understand, I was in the Administrator Account
trying to access the User Account and it still denied me.

Could the problem be sharing? It says not shared.

https://postimg.cc/0KJQB0Kv

Robert

There is a tick box in the Macrium mounter dialog, to remove permissions
and make your files easier to access as K: .

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/RZHmJb4b/macrium-remove-permissions.gif

*******

The recent spam attacks originating from Google, have caused
the USENET Admins to build spam filters.

While ordinary messages from Google Groups make it through,
some messages are getting dropped. This is termed a "false positive",
as a perfectly ordinary message can be falsely accused of being spam.

This means comms, my ability to see your questions,
is potentially hampered now. I don't think yours are being
dropped, but this is just a warning that if I don't reply,
maybe I can't see it.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Oh man,.... that's not good news. It's bad enough with all the servers
going but now as you say you may not be able to even see my posts
at some point!? I hope this isn't going to happen.

If it does do you have any advice now? I do my mrimgs every month,
but is there anything else you want me to do should you stop seeing my messages? I couldn't replace the PSU alone should that fail even though
I have two spares.

I'll try the mrimg again and let you know how it goes.

I'll order the 6TB hd and external case next week and I'd appreciate it if
you could help me set it up.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tried the mrimg again but this time it didn't give me the browse option:

https://postimg.cc/47P5YH6k

however I managed to navigate to the mrimgs and change the drive letter to K: but it didn't give me the screen to enable access to restricted folders yet I was able to access them and copy/pasted 'My Documents' from the K drive
to the C: drive.

You know how it opens a dialog box and shows the files being transferred
from one folder to the next? It did that at first but now the 'files' are frozen
between folders and there's no apparent transfer happening. Also when the transfer completes it should close or tell me something, correct? I'm afraid
to do anything since I've gotten this far with it but it seems like it's not responding.
It just says, File operation in progress, please wait but there's no movement. It's been like this for about an hour now. What should I do?

Thoughts, suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I got the 780 out of the not responding state then
I tried dismounting the K: drive by right clicking but
when I do it says Open, Properties, Refresh

What's going on ? Why did mine change? I did all this
before and it was OK?

I successfully transferred 'My Documents' but they went
to the Administrator's Account so I'm copy/pasting it again
to the User Account. 3 hrs 30 mins,.. that's the same amount
of time it takes for the mrimgs for the 8500.

Should I try browsing again to see if I can dismount the K:
and L: drives? It's weird it doesn't say Macrium when I right click

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I tried it again and again it didn't give me the option
but I see it in the middle of the page where the arrow is.
That's what I clicked on but when I got to the point of
changing drives to unmount K: and L: they were there !?
How could they be there if I didn't unmount them previously?

https://postimg.cc/5XGgfwbX

https://postimg.cc/JDQjHJVc

Also when I brought over 'My Documents this popped up
but I just closed it.

https://postimg.cc/KkQg82B0

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I've successfully transferred My Documents and the bookmarks
to the 780 with your good help but I still need to unmount K:
and L: drives from the 6TB external hd.

It's weird that the drop down box didn't have the 'Browse for image
or backup file to restore' option. However I found it lower on the screen
in a box on the right and that's how I gained access. but the K: and L:
drives are still unmounted and I need to use another letter to dismount
them. I'll give it another try but so far it's not giving me the Macrium
option when I right click the drives?

I'll try again and let you know how it goes.

Are there any other tests you want me to do with regard to the
humming from the 8500? It hasn't happened since but I was
just wondering.

I'll order the 6TB hd and case Wed and should be here in a week
or so.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/23/2023 4:37 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I've successfully transferred My Documents and the bookmarks
to the 780 with your good help but I still need to unmount K:
and L: drives from the 6TB external hd.

It's weird that the drop down box didn't have the 'Browse for image
or backup file to restore' option. However I found it lower on the screen
in a box on the right and that's how I gained access. but the K: and L: drives are still unmounted and I need to use another letter to dismount
them. I'll give it another try but so far it's not giving me the Macrium option when I right click the drives?

I'll try again and let you know how it goes.

Are there any other tests you want me to do with regard to the
humming from the 8500? It hasn't happened since but I was
just wondering.

I'll order the 6TB hd and case Wed and should be here in a week
or so.

Thanks,
Robert

The K: and L: should be dismount-able from File Explorer.
Right-click on the drives, in the left-hand pane.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/FH8fh4Qs/Unmount-Macrium-K.gif

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/22/2023 10:28 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I got the 780 out of the not responding state then
I tried dismounting the K: drive by right clicking but
when I do it says Open, Properties, Refresh

What's going on ? Why did mine change? I did all this
before and it was OK?

I successfully transferred 'My Documents' but they went
to the Administrator's Account so I'm copy/pasting it again
to the User Account. 3 hrs 30 mins,.. that's the same amount
of time it takes for the mrimgs for the 8500.

Should I try browsing again to see if I can dismount the K:
and L: drives? It's weird it doesn't say Macrium when I right click

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

When you run Macrium, the Restore button needs to be clicked,
so the Restore menu items will be there. Then, you should
be able to browse for something.

The K: can be dismounted from File Explorer. Right click on K:
and look for the Macrium item. The Macrium item should be
present, if you are clicking on a Macrium item (such as K: ).

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/23/2023 5:04 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried it again and again it didn't give me the option
but I see it in the middle of the page where the arrow is.
That's what I clicked on but when I got to the point of
changing drives to unmount K: and L: they were there !?
How could they be there if I didn't unmount them previously?

https://postimg.cc/5XGgfwbX

https://postimg.cc/JDQjHJVc

Also when I brought over 'My Documents this popped up
but I just closed it.

https://postimg.cc/KkQg82B0

Robert

I don't know what would trigger that.
If you were just copying some files and not executing something.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tried again, and did as you instructed. The first picture I clicked
the Restore Tab and it's the same as before. The second picture I
clicked the Backup Tab

https://postimg.cc/NL1jP09m

https://postimg.cc/ZvZ4hrB3

What am I doing wrong? I did this the first time and was exactly as
you say but the browse option disappeared.

Also in passing I noticed I have a Apple Software Update on the 780
which I don't have on the 8500. There's also SequoiaView which if I
remember correctly you used it to find that huge program that was eating
up GB's when the 780 should of been like 50GB it was like 350GB.

Should I remove these programs?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

There's also another problem per se on the 8500.
Sometimes it seems to lag loading programs. Like
a YouTube video. Sometimes it takes forever to
load a page and I'll have to reload it to get it to go.
Other times I get this page:

https://postimg.cc/SnGpBYdB

Sometimes this is probably caused by me leaving the
computer sitting for too long while I take a break but
once going it shouldn't have these problems should it?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tried again with another Rescue CD but it gave me
the same thing.

https://postimg.cc/NL1jP09m

Why and how did it change? The first time I did it it
had the browse for image as you describe and all
went well but now it's gone?

I do see it in another part of the screen, center of the
page and another lower right but we can't use either?

So how do I fix this?

Thanks
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I did the ipconfig command and this is what it shows:

https://postimg.cc/XXDt8Cvk

I did the whatismyip.net and it showed the exact location
and my IP address.

As far as IP address I don't have any control over mine
which is all numbers. I'm not following you with the nodes
to access and write down. Do you mean programs? Sites?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I was using the Rescue CD to do this so I tried it
by just opening Macrium and there was the prompt.

This is how I must of done it before but for some
reason I started using the Rescue CD which changed it.

However the K: and L: were there? How could they
be there if I didn't un-mount them?


https://postimg.cc/w1yPwMmS

https://postimg.cc/DSXjqDVh

https://postimg.cc/Cdxcvdym

https://postimg.cc/kVCcWgFN


Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/24/2023 8:07 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried again with another Rescue CD but it gave me
the same thing.

https://postimg.cc/NL1jP09m

Why and how did it change? The first time I did it it
had the browse for image as you describe and all
went well but now it's gone?

I do see it in another part of the screen, center of the
page and another lower right but we can't use either?

So how do I fix this?

Thanks
Robert

The menus can be slightly different, in the OS screen
versus the CD-provided screen. This is me running the CD.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/mrzbj3Nr/Macrium-Rescue-CD-browse.gif

Copying a few files from K: to C: is best done while C: is booted.

Restoring an entire hard drive image, over top of C: , that
is when you use the Rescue CD.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/24/2023 1:00 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

There's also another problem per se on the 8500.
Sometimes it seems to lag loading programs. Like
a YouTube video. Sometimes it takes forever to
load a page and I'll have to reload it to get it to go.
Other times I get this page:

https://postimg.cc/SnGpBYdB

Sometimes this is probably caused by me leaving the
computer sitting for too long while I take a break but
once going it shouldn't have these problems should it?

Robert

This can be a networking problem.

In a Command Prompt or Powershell terminal window (doesn't have to be elevated)

ipconfig <=== this shows your IPV4 and IPV6 addresses
if the hardware has them. My setup for example,
only has IPV4. I have the usual normal equipment
to switch to doing both -- if I wanted that.
These are local LAN addresses, typically non-routable.

nslookup www.example.com <=== This is how you check the addresses of Internet servers
Now, we're on the other side of your router, sniffing the Internet.

You can do this in your browser if you want,
so this is basically pseudocode in a sense.
It means "do it in your browser".

firefox https://www.whatismyip.net/ <=== This tests "how you are connecting to the web"

Your Information
IP Address: 105.200.150.175 <=== I connected via IPV4
"DO NOT" pay attention to any scary red text on the page :-)
We just want to see whether it tried IPV4 or IPV6 first.
Most other info is irrelevant to our purpose. Some of
the info on that web site, is just wrong.

For example, when I tried to use this site, it was slow.

PS C:\Users > nslookup news.eternal-september.org

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: news.eternal-september.org
Addresses: 2a01:4f9:4b:44c2::2 <=== was only making IPV6 available at the time I checked

Later when I checked, it was doing this, and I connected via IPV4
and the time to become connected was reduced. Presumably it is the
time for the DNS lookup which is taking longer, it prefers IPV4
over IPV6 and tries that first.

PS C:\Users > nslookup news.eternal-september.org

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: news.eternal-september.org
Addresses: 2a01:4f9:4b:44c2::2 \___ The server supports both now.
135.181.20.170 / Your machine may try one type, before the other type.
if one of those is not available, it could be slower.

DNS is also subject to a lot of shenanigans, which
is why they are experimenting with other DNS servers
with features such as DNS-over-TLS (secure in-flight lookups).
But that doesn't make it faster. That's just noting
that if there were ever a war, DNS would likely get
broken right away. And you probably would not be
watching Youtube then. If you had collected addresses
using "nslookup" and had written them down, you
could still attempt connect to specific servers.

firefox http://135.181.20.170 # Now, it doesn't need DNS to work
# Without a symbolic name, the certificate to make
# a https: would not work, so try http: access first.

It's delightfully messy, but it does pay to "prepare your go-bag"
for times when the Internet is not working. For example, my
ISP has a "status page", and you definitely want the IP address
of the status page, so you can check for known network anomalies.

IP addresses can be reassigned at any time, which is
why we prefer symbolic addresses "news.eternal-september.org"
instead of "135.181.20.170". Maybe tomorrow, that machine won't
be at 135.181.20.170 . But, in the event of an emergency condition,
think carefully about what nodes you might want to access, and
write those down in your Notes file.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/25/2023 4:45 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I was using the Rescue CD to do this so I tried it
by just opening Macrium and there was the prompt.

This is how I must of done it before but for some
reason I started using the Rescue CD which changed it.

However the K: and L: were there? How could they
be there if I didn't un-mount them?

https://postimg.cc/w1yPwMmS

https://postimg.cc/DSXjqDVh

https://postimg.cc/Cdxcvdym

https://postimg.cc/kVCcWgFN

Robert

Postimage isn't working right now, but I can tell
you the K: and L: , they can be unmounted from
File Explorer, but they can also be unmounted any
time you reboot.

If you need to copy files from K: the next time
you boot, you would have to mount the MRING file
again to do that. And the K: "letter" should be
available to do it.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Postimage seems fine on my end.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Since I've rebooted several times since then they've been
unmounted so it's OK and I can use the K: or L: drives if I
need to copy/paste?

I don't know if this has anything to do with with the lag
problem but earlier today I bid on an item on eBay and
clicked the bid button but the dialog box opened only
partially and was all grayed out so I wasn't able to bid
and lost the item. It never did open up completely.

That's the first time that's ever happened.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

So if I want to copy/paste a file from the mrimgs
I do not use the Rescue CD. I use it only to create
clone, and restore, correct?

I ordered the 6TB hd and case and should be
here in a week or so.

Once I get the 6TB hd I clone it and then put it
inside the 780 to boot. Making it a boot-able hd,
correct?

By nodes do you mean the actual address of
interested sites e.g. www.example.com?

In passing, I noticed I have a Apple Software
Update on the 780 which I don't have on the
8500. There's also SequoiaView which if I
remember correctly you used it to find that
huge program that was eating up GB's when
the 780 should of been like 50GB it was like
350GB.

Should I remove these programs?

I got this screen again and I had just logged on.

https://postimg.cc/pmzZpCXy

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/25/2023 8:40 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

So if I want to copy/paste a file from the mrimgs
I do not use the Rescue CD. I use it only to create
clone, and restore, correct?

I ordered the 6TB hd and case and should be
here in a week or so.

Once I get the 6TB hd I clone it and then put it
inside the 780 to boot. Making it a boot-able hd,
correct?

By nodes do you mean the actual address of
interested sites e.g. www.example.com?

In passing, I noticed I have a Apple Software
Update on the 780 which I don't have on the
8500. There's also SequoiaView which if I
remember correctly you used it to find that
huge program that was eating up GB's when
the 780 should of been like 50GB it was like
350GB.

Should I remove these programs?

I got this screen again and I had just logged on.

https://postimg.cc/pmzZpCXy

Robert

You can enter "somesite.com" style into this web page,
and it may be able to tell you how often the site is down.

https://www.isitdownrightnow.com/

Sometimes the Windows firewall is not loading, but if that
was the case, the browser likely wouldn't run, rather
than the window opening and pretending to be ready for usage.

The site in question, only has an IPV4 address and no IPV6 address.
This isn't particularly important.

OK, now this is interesting.

nslookup righteouswarriors.com

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: righteouswarriors.com
Address: 208.180.89.69 <=== an IPV4 address

ping 208.180.89.69

Pinging 208.180.89.69 with 32 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Yet the entry web page paints in a web browser.
And the transaction seems to use TLS 1.2 .

I would rate the site, "not 100% normal". Due to the ping failing to work.

isitdownrightnow says it is working, and the web browser says it is working.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I have my 6 TB hd and now just waiting for the case.
Then I'll try cloning it.

Here's your instructions for cloning but as I say
they have automated the mrimg backups allot so I
think it may be the same with cloning.

https://postimg.cc/ft67JpfL

https://postimg.cc/8sZJKq6r

https://postimg.cc/wtnFm16g

https://postimg.cc/xNV2tjPS

https://postimg.cc/TKgHJj4h

https://postimg.cc/qg2h0zSy

https://postimg.cc/RNQPD1BY

https://postimg.cc/JtdJ4GQh

https://postimg.cc/3dcPBCFH

https://postimg.cc/FY2z2SmM

https://postimg.cc/CZgYGswx

https://postimg.cc/yDqzKygy

I typed somesite.com and this is what it showed:

https://postimg.cc/SXPKWz1T

It's interesting you looked up Righteous Warriors,
It was started by someone I use to know and I was
surprised it still was up. I tried contacting him but
never got a reply.

I barely am understanding you with the IPV4 and
IPV6 addresses. I'm trying to follow along.

Is there anything you want me to do? Run any
tests?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I removed the Apple programs from the 780 but kept
SequoiaView. You never know, I may need it again.

Hopefully, we can get the 6TB hd up and running before
Nov 1 for the mrimgs.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/27/2023 7:18 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I removed the Apple programs from the 780 but kept
SequoiaView. You never know, I may need it again.

Hopefully, we can get the 6TB hd up and running before
Nov 1 for the mrimgs.

Robert

If we don't make it bootable, it can be ready in about
30 seconds.

See my other post, for how to boot the 6TB drive :-)
It's not as easy as I thought.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/27/2023 5:37 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I have my 6 TB hd and now just waiting for the case.
Then I'll try cloning it.

Here's your instructions for cloning but as I say
they have automated the mrimg backups allot so I
think it may be the same with cloning.

https://postimg.cc/ft67JpfL

<some snipped for brevity>

https://postimg.cc/yDqzKygy

I typed somesite.com and this is what it showed:

https://postimg.cc/SXPKWz1T

It's interesting you looked up Righteous Warriors,
It was started by someone I use to know and I was
surprised it still was up. I tried contacting him but
never got a reply.

I barely am understanding you with the IPV4 and
IPV6 addresses. I'm trying to follow along.

Is there anything you want me to do? Run any
tests?

Thanks,
Robert

The reference to "somesite.com" was similar to "example.com",
just to show you the format.

Not to actually go there.

I wanted you to type a domain name, "example.com" or
whatever domain you're trying to use.

*******

These links may point at the Macrium cloning disk instructions.
One of these links should work.

Clicking the "Download Original" <===

allows you to keep a copy of the single file with all the pictures in it.

https://s22.postimg.cc/487zw4g1d/Clone_Disk.gif
https://postimg.cc/Zv6vZckT

*******

As it turns out, your request to "just clone the 2TB bootable backup drive
to the 6TB drive", this is a bit more complicated than expected :-)

You see, your previous backup drives (with their boot OS on them),
they were 2TB drives. That wasn't by accident, by the way. I am
a schemer. A schemer who hates surprises.

You can take the new 6TB drive, make it GPT
(GUID Partition Table, instead of MSDOS MBR partition table type),
and then in Disk Management, you can define the entire
6TB drive, as one partition.

That works fine.

The money is not wasted, because, you can use the *entire* drive
for backups. No problemo. When it asks what flavor of partitioning
you want, a 6TB drive works best with "GPT".

The problem comes, when you try to fit the older OS image you've
got, onto the 6TB drive. Remember that MSDOS MBR partitioned disks,
they work up to 2.2TB, so a 2.0TB disk was a "perfect fit for the job".

The MBR only has enough address space for the 2TB drive. It cannot
access storage above that point. There are two "hacks" for turning the
space above 2TB, into separate virtual drives (Acronis Capacity Manager
is one of the methods), but these are not practical. I used to run that,
but I got rid of it, because it was making me crazy.

If the disk is made GPT, and we want to boot the OS, we have:

UEFI GPT <=== most users do this. The OS installer does this
It is unlikely the Optiplex 780 has UEFI. I am
unable to confirm whether A15 BIOS update for the 780,
actually has UEFI option in it.

CSM GPT <=== this can be done with a Syslinux replacement MBR,
plus setting a GPT attribute bit, to support legacy
"boot flag" or Active flag, but in GPT-land.

https://superuser.com/questions/1750366/boot-a-legacy-bios-os-on-a-gpt-mass-memory

https://mirrors.edge.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/boot/syslinux/Testing/6.04/syslinux-6.04-pre1.tar.xz

"You can install the Syslinux MBR boot code (gptmbr.bin), which behaves very much
like traditional MBRs that jump to an active partition's PBR, but understands GPT
partition tables and looks for a similarly named GPT attribute flag. (Specifically,
it checks bit 2 which gdisk calls "Legacy BIOS bootable.") The rest of Syslinux
is not needed."

You will notice this article,

https://wiki.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Mbr

does not address setting the GPT Attribute
in order to make gptmbr.bin to jump to the correct partition. You can set
some GPT things in Linux, which is what the previous paragraph proposes.
But "diskpart.exe" utility in Windows can also do that, and I've already had
to repair one GPT Attribute in the past using that.

You can help, by taking a screenshot of Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc)
of the 780 2TB bootable backup drive, to help me verify I'm preparing
my new recipe properly.

I hope by doing it this strange way, I will *AVOID* asking you to:

1) Flash update the Optiplex 780 BIOS. I don't want to do that.
It is unlikely to help, and I can't verify it would help.

2) Use the Microsoft MBR2GPT.exe utility. If you have your Win10 you installed
to get the Win10 license, there might be a copy of MBR2GPT.exe on there.
I don't really want to do that.

Instead, the steps will likely involve.

1) Macrium Reflect clone of Win7 C: and System Reserved, to the 6TB disk.
2) dd.exe transfer of 440 byte "gptmbr.bin" binary file, to the MBR sector.
This leaves the 0xEE protective partition single entry in the partition table, alone.
3) A diskpart session, selecting the currently active partition, and
making it active by setting GPT attribute to 0x4 or so. It'll be
something like that.
4) Test boot of the new setup, to see it vectors based on the GPT attribute it finds.
The reason the GPT attribute must be set, is the traditional 0x80 boot flag
has no equivalent in GPT-land directly (the same way as before).

Anyway, post a screenshot of the 2TB backup drive in Disk Management
(not file explorer), so I can have a look at it. In Windows 7,
Start : Run : diskmgmt.msc will give a nice clean picture.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I have the set of instructions for cloning
when you initially gave them to me.

I accidentally clicked on the Syslinux
download on the 8500 but deleted it
afterwards.

I don't understand, we never went through
all of this with the other 6TB hd as I remember.
Maybe we didn't make it boot-able? They weren't
meant to be after all they are external drives.

Let me ask a question. As it is now, once I
get the case for it could I create a folder on
the 6TB hd for mrimgs without a OS? If
so, I think that's what I did with the other 6TB
because that's actually all I see on my other 6TB
hd. Just a folder that says 8500 mrimgs, nothing
else.

Here's the pics, I hope I did it right:

https://postimg.cc/PpDx6pj2

I typed run : diskmgmt.msc

https://postimg.cc/87Cz2nGF

https://postimg.cc/YjkGXRvF

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/28/2023 8:05 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I have the set of instructions for cloning
when you initially gave them to me.

I accidentally clicked on the Syslinux
download on the 8500 but deleted it
afterwards.

I don't understand, we never went through
all of this with the other 6TB hd as I remember.
Maybe we didn't make it boot-able? They weren't
meant to be after all they are external drives.

Let me ask a question. As it is now, once I
get the case for it could I create a folder on
the 6TB hd for mrimgs without a OS? If
so, I think that's what I did with the other 6TB
because that's actually all I see on my other 6TB
hd. Just a folder that says 8500 mrimgs, nothing
else.

Here's the pics, I hope I did it right:

https://postimg.cc/PpDx6pj2

I typed run : diskmgmt.msc

https://postimg.cc/87Cz2nGF

https://postimg.cc/YjkGXRvF

Robert

The string to be entered in the Run box is just

diskmgmt.msc

That should do it.

*******

Your first post is interesting. That looks like the
regular OS boot drive. Where you've made C: take up
all the space. You can certainly do that.

For the backup drives, I think we made the C: in that
case, a lot smaller. Macrium has a "resize" thing so
you can reduce the size of a partition while working
on it.

Your OS drive is like this:

+-----+--------------+--------------------------------------------+
| MBR | 4GB recovery | Huge C: drive | +-----+--------------+--------------------------------------------|

Whereas for the backup drives which double as emergency OSes, they
were supposed to look like this. Sometimes, there are advantages
to separating the OS (that might not get used very much), from
the partition with the backups in it. Then, if you ever need to
"overwrite" the Small C: with a clean OS image, you can do it.

+-----+--------------+----------+---------------------------------+
| MBR | 4GB recovery | Small C: | Huge Data D: for backups | +-----+--------------+----------+---------------------------------+

*******

And absolutely, if you want to make the 6TB into a single Data partition
6TB long, you can do that. Windows 7 supports GPT disks with 6TB partitions,
no problem, as a place for the output from backup software.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Here's dickmgmt.msc

https://postimg.cc/v4gK3BtS

https://postimg.cc/DmxYhsCM

Can we leave the 6TB hd un-bootable and just a stand alone hd for
mrimgs and nothing else? I already have two backup 2TB hd's, plus
the 2TB hd with mrimgs being retired and I have the old WD hd and
two other spare 2TB hd's with Win 10 on them. All bootable

I prefer we use the new 6TB hd as a dedicated external hd for 780
mrimgs only. I checked and there's nothing else on the 6TB hd for the 8500 except the mrimgs folder. Is it possible to do the same for the new 6TB
hd for the 780 with just a folder for Mrimgs and no OS?


https://postimg.cc/HVwhcK3V

https://postimg.cc/5Qxnw9sy

https://postimg.cc/YvcLVDwf

https://postimg.cc/4mpxKJrV

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I have the case, so am going to try to put the hd inside it.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I have the 6TB hd in the case but haven't tested it as yet.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tested the 6TB hd on the 780 I opened Macrium
but I couldn't see how I could create a folder for
mrimgs.

It didn't seem to see the 6TB hd to give me access
to the drive but it recognized it. When I did
diskmgmt.msc it showed up unallocated. I then
right clicked it for properties because I thought
you may want to see it.

So how do I created a folder for mrimgs?

https://postimg.cc/ZBQ9RRBp

https://postimg.cc/XBwVb7wV

https://postimg.cc/Pvkj2s00

https://postimg.cc/qzwTXFwZ

https://postimg.cc/QHfMxC2t

https://postimg.cc/V5RfD5LR

https://postimg.cc/Q9DDqZ2w

https://postimg.cc/21BfR5mg

https://postimg.cc/m1r0dL8X

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/28/2023 8:48 AM, Paul wrote:

And absolutely, if you want to make the 6TB into a single Data partition
6TB long, you can do that. Windows 7 supports GPT disks with 6TB partitions, no problem, as a place for the output from backup software.

I tried to get the syslinux thing to work, but it's a no-go so far.

It is reading "something" and it finds an error, but it
won't give details on the error, so I have nothing to go on.

Just use the thing as a 6TB backup partition. When you receive
the drive, it may already have been initialized GPT (since that
exposes the whole 6TB, whereas an MBR partition only
exposes 2.2TB).

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I have the 6TB hd and case and I've put the drive in the case.

I'm not following you. Are you saying to proceed and clone
the 6TB hd and edit the partition as in your instructions?

https://postimg.cc/67v7mXT0

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Here are your instructions for editing the
partition during cloning.

https://postimg.cc/qhDfm1Ds

https://postimg.cc/CBQtCzdJ

https://postimg.cc/Bj0zCWQW

https://postimg.cc/6761DdvY

https://postimg.cc/zbV2f8ph

Should I proceed?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I haven't done anything as yet other than put the
6TB hd in the case.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tried to clone the 6TB hd but it couldn't see it
or I did something wrong? Is Boot X the 6TB hd?
I'm just guessing at this point.

https://postimg.cc/6TWtSXxC

https://postimg.cc/wt5YfWWW

https://postimg.cc/d7Yzy2qG

https://postimg.cc/q6zYTQLH

https://postimg.cc/QFLz2QKv

Please advise,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I just realized it can't be BootX so where is the 6TB hd?
Why doesn't it see it even if un-allocated.

Thoughts/suggestions,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tried again and did diskmgmt.msc on the 780
to verify that the 780 could see the un-allocated
partition before I attempted to clone it.

https://postimg.cc/7CYScH0G

However, it did the same as before and did not see
it. How can I clone it if it doesn't see it? How did we
set up the other 6TB hd? I must be doing something
wrong.

https://postimg.cc/njMFN53G

https://postimg.cc/PNgXFSY1

https://postimg.cc/jLYThLYX

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 10/30/2023 4:05 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried again and did diskmgmt.msc on the 780
to verify that the 780 could see the un-allocated
partition before I attempted to clone it.

https://postimg.cc/7CYScH0G

However, it did the same as before and did not see
it. How can I clone it if it doesn't see it? How did we
set up the other 6TB hd? I must be doing something
wrong.

https://postimg.cc/njMFN53G

https://postimg.cc/PNgXFSY1

https://postimg.cc/jLYThLYX

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

OK, the first picture at the top, is GOOD. [ https://postimg.cc/7CYScH0G ]

In the picture, I see an OS that is GPT-aware and it recognizes the disk
as a 6TB drive.

In Disk Management, while the regular OS is running, you can click the 6TB area,
and use New Simple Volume. I don't see a reason to be cloning at the moment,
at least for usage on the Optiplex 780, since the Optiplex 780 won't boot
a GPT disk (even when using a Syslinux boot thingy). That's what I tested.

If the disk was not initialized, you would select the left-most box
with the Disk Number, and initialize as GPT. Then, a New Simple Volume
on the right-hand chunk, should allow you to allocate the entire 6TB
as s single NTFS partition.

Doing Properties on the left-most box on a Disk Management row, and
looking in Volumes tab, the word "GPT" should be there if the disk is
now initialized properly. The 6TB disk row, should be a GPT one.

It is OK for the original Windows 7 boot drive, to be a 2TB MBR or MSDOS
hard drive, as MSDOS partitioning is good up to 2.2TB and the disk is
just 2.0TB in size.

This is just for interest sake. When the newer GPT scheme is used, there
is the traditional partition table on the left. The MBR is a mere 512 bytes
and it has room for 4 partitions (like Primary ones). In the same way an
Apple computer does it, when GPT initialize is done, the MBR is marked
in a way, to advise older OSes to not mess with anything. The 0xEE partition
is defined as 2.2TB, leaving no room for an older OS (WinXP) to make any more partitions. This helps keep the other three entries as 0x00. The actual functioning
partitions are in the GPT table. The secondary table at the end of the disk,
is a copy of the primary table on the left, in case the left one is corrupted. These have very little impact on your usage of the disk, as the
storage cluster section is still 6TB. In the storage cluster section
is where you will be defining your New Simple Volume 6TB NTFS. The GPT partition table is ~64KB and has room for 128 partition definitions.

+---------------------+-------------------------+----------------------------+--------------------------------+
| | | | |
MBR 4 entry table GPT Partition Table <=== storage clusters ===> Secondary GPT Partition Table
0xEE #1 Microsoft Basic Data + + #1 Microsoft Basic Data
0x00
0x00
0x00

*******

We're doing good so far. Since the normal OS sees the disk and
we are initializing it and we are defining a 6TB NTFS volume on it.

The problem is, your Macrium Rescue CD was made with a particular version
of WinPE. With a missing 6TB USB disk drive, the USB driver is likely
missing. The Optiplex 780 does not have USB3 ports - it is hard to explain
why the driver is missing on an Optiplex 780 (anything plugged into
a USB2 port, should be visible). If you are doing
this experiment on the XPS 8500, it has a USB3 port, and a really
old Macrium CD will not have the USB3 driver. The disk being invisible
using Macrium CD on the 8500 is easier to explain.

That might take WinPE 5 or WinPE 10 when making a new CD with
the recent Macrium versions. WinPE 10 has been around since about
2015 or 2016 or so.

Summary:

Optiplex 780 - hard to explain the disk not being visible.
- if it was visible, the size info could be wrong.

XPS 8500 - with old enough Macrium Rescue CD, the drive might be missing entirely.
This can happen if the USB3 driver is not available to the CD OS.

The WinPE version, can have a USB3 driver in it. While
Macrium offers to bind in a USB3 driver separately, usually
that's an advanced topic (finding the right driver format,
finding a driver, maybe they offer a driver in the kit, etc).

With a more modern WinPE choice, the driver is already there.
(Because it is part of the integrated OS booting kit.)

I tested with a WinPE 3.1 version and the 6TB USB disk was missing.
(I have a few 6TB drives for testing.)

While it is possible an enclosure might not be 6TB compatible,
we have the nice result in your GOOD picture, proving the USB enclosure
works. That's a relief.

Try building some new media.

If the Optiplex had a USB3 plugin card added to the slots,
then that would benefit from the modern WinPE versions as well.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Success !

https://postimg.cc/8jNVwFfN

https://postimg.cc/SXMy3BSh

https://postimg.cc/V51YZZ2x

https://postimg.cc/0by9PMkZ

https://postimg.cc/w7rYzwbT

https://postimg.cc/CZj3jSMz

https://postimg.cc/t7rLdrbt

https://postimg.cc/zL1MD6w5

https://postimg.cc/r0fYJpBF

https://postimg.cc/PPpFWT2T

https://postimg.cc/fVQ5YXVf

When you say build new media do you mean Rescue CD's
for the 8500 and 780?

Many Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I'll try dismounting the external hd's by safely removing them
when I do the mrimgs tonight and let you know how it goes.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I checked and I made spare Rescue Cd's for the
8500 in 2022 and spare Rescue CD's for the 780
in 2023. Should I be using these or make new ones?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

It's true, on the 8500 it doesn't see the 3.0(blue)USB port when running macrium so I have to wait till the screen goes black before I pull the
plug. I haven't tested it without the macrium running to see if I can safely remove the plug.

The 780 see's the 2.0 connection(black) and lets me disconnect it safely
when not running macrium but it's the same way, it doesn't see the ports
during macrium but they are obviously working. They just don't let me disconnect safely.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I checked to see if macrium detected the external 6TB hd
before starting the mrimg and to identify the drive letter.

https://postimg.cc/DJcysrMH

The mrimg completed successfully

https://postimg.cc/kRB34W3x

https://postimg.cc/JymfXfC7

https://postimg.cc/9DHK36MP

Then I checked to see if I could safely disconnect
by clicking the lower right icon

https://postimg.cc/1g9dXDDf

I also checked the 8500 after it's mrimg to see if I could
safely disconnect by clicking the lower right icon.

https://postimg.cc/KRPQTRGL

I used the 2023 Rescue CD with the 780 and the 2022
Rescue CD with the 8500.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

What did you mean by building new media?

I thought maybe we could upgrade the 780 from 2.0 USB ports (black)
to 3.0 USB ports (Blue) but it doesn't seem like I would be able
because on the front with the USB ports it also has plug- ins for mic and headphones although I don't use either. Similar to this configuration:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Restored-Dell-780-Desktop-PC-with-Intel-Core-2-Duo-Processor-4GB-Memory-1TB-Hard-Drive-and-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Not-Included-Refurbished/22394341?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=5787&adid=2222222222722394341_5787_
155075802957_20717494264&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=678789797442&wl4=pla-2234362938896&wl5=1014127&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113945645&wl11=online&wl12=22394341_5787&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAjw7oeqBhBwEiwALyHLM5UDHynxvin3w7Lej-cSne9YcqQm_08Ajn_Z-UHatjfbr_
rAYMGCZhoC840QAvD_BwE

Here's a shot inside the 780

https://postimg.cc/njvyX9xC

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Would it be possible to add RAMM to the 780?
Are the black slots at the top for RAMM ?

https://postimg.cc/gXBCMmbF

If so how much would they cost and what kind?
I would have to wait till the end of the month to do
this.

What do you think?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

We've moved the bookmarks and 'My Documents'
to the 780 and installed Word and Excel, and created
a simple volume of the 6TB external HD so it's now
functional, all with your good help.

I'm not forgetting your elegant solution for the start
switch for the 8500 with no soldering! I hid the switch
behind a faux optical drive panel so it keeps it clean and
out of sight. Now it starts all the time.

Before we may get cut off, I want to say thank you for
all you've done. You've helped me allot over the years
and built my entire backup system and helped me select
the 780.

What do you think about upgrading the 780 RAMM and
USB ports from 2:0 to 3.0? Is it possible?

What do you recommend I do at this point?

Many Thanks for all your good help,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Paul can you see my messages I've sent?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/2/2023 8:53 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

Would it be possible to add RAMM to the 780?
Are the black slots at the top for RAMM ?

https://postimg.cc/gXBCMmbF

If so how much would they cost and what kind?
I would have to wait till the end of the month to do
this.

What do you think?
Robert

If you have 8GB in there, I don't know if more
is going to help. It all depends what whizzy
project you have in mind.

The machine takes up to 4x4GB sticks of DDR3.
When you install 16GB, the address space in the
chipset isn't big enough for it all. It registers
around 14.9GB or less. The video card VRAM comes
out of the same address space, so the amount
of DRAM that registers with Windows, is 16GB - vidcard
minus a little bit.

DDR3 is now out of production. DDR4 and DDR5 are
still being made, but I expect DDR4 will fade out
before too long. The industry is on a belt-tightening
spree, and no stupidities are off the table when it
comes to the stopping of manufacturing.

You don't have to buy at Crucial and there is nothing
special about the RAM. The thing to note here, is
the "Crucial 4GB DDR3L-1600 UDIMM" part. These are slightly
lower voltage DIMMs, which are backward compatible with the
Optiplex. The DIMMs are CL=11 at 1600. The Optiplex runs
at 1066. 11*1066/1600 ==> CL=7 so they will run at CAS 7.

https://www.crucial.com/compatible-upgrade-for/dell/optiplex-780-desktop

Isn't it sad, when the only stock of an American product,
is in China ??? This is what shutting down DDR3 production
has done.

https://www.newegg.com/crucial-8gb-240-pin-ddr3-sdram/p/N82E16820156050

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/1/2023 5:57 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

What did you mean by building new media?

I thought maybe we could upgrade the 780 from 2.0 USB ports (black)
to 3.0 USB ports (Blue) but it doesn't seem like I would be able
because on the front with the USB ports it also has plug- ins for mic and headphones although I don't use either. Similar to this configuration:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Restored-Dell-780-Desktop-PC-with-Intel-Core-2-Duo-Processor-4GB-Memory-1TB-Hard-Drive-and-Windows-10-Pro-Monitor-Not-Included-Refurbished/22394341?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=5787&adid=2222222222722394341_5787_

155075802957_20717494264&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=678789797442&wl4=pla-2234362938896&wl5=1014127&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=113945645&wl11=online&wl12=22394341_5787&veh=sem&gclid=CjwKCAjw7oeqBhBwEiwALyHLM5UDHynxvin3w7Lej-cSne9YcqQm_08Ajn_Z-UHatjfbr_
rAYMGCZhoC840QAvD_BwE

Here's a shot inside the 780

https://postimg.cc/njvyX9xC

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

I did not see your posts, so they may not have been
showing on this server immediately.

*******

You would use the PCI Express black slot at the bottom of the Optiplex 780.

It would likely be a black x1 slot.

This card uses a Renesas (NEC) USB3.0 chip.

Drivers for this go back to Windows XP. Whereas
Asmedia USB3 cards might start at Windows 7 and have MCCI drivers
(contract drivers, nothing wrong with them). It all depends
on what is available, and at what price. There were some other
brands I would not recommend, and the eTron USB3 offering, I
don't know if they make cards with that or not any more. You have to be
careful to not get a USB3 card with an x4 connector (a wider connector
than the gold pins on this one), as it won't fit in your x1 available
slot. The x4 cards would only fit in your x16 graphics card slot, and
the Optiplex is also snotty about only putting vid cards in
the x16 slot.

https://www.newegg.com/syba-model-sd-pex20139-pci-express-to-usb-card/p/N82E16815124120

That card-clamp (screwless) on the 780 is the hardest part of the exercise. Should work fine, as long as the card-clamp is not damaged. The
retention with screws, works so much better...

You would unplug the 780 from the wall, so that there's no
power in the slots. Then insert the card. Put the faceplate
clamp back in place. Power up machine, if there is a mini-CD
in the box that came with the card, install the drivers
from there. For Windows 10 or Windows 11, the OS can fetch
its own driver. For Windows 7, you use the CD in the box.

If the card is properly seated, you won't be able to see
the gold, shining off the pins on the edgecard.

If you use WinPE 5 or WinPE 10 when making Macrium Rescue media,
there should be drivers for the USB3 in there, and no
need to add drivers manually to the Macrium Rescue build.

You can make new media, and there's a good chance it will
work on the 780 and the 8500, as they would both likely
support legacy (MSDOS) boot.

As far as boot processes, the 780 does not normally look
at cards like that. You could not boot a Linux Live USB
stick from the new card. But once any OS is running (including
Macrium), the card should then work. In a sense, it is a
"data card", which works once any kind of OS is booted.
Even Linux will recognize those cards, once Linux is running.

The four pin Molex power on the card, is "optional". For
high power loads, such as charging your iPad while the Optiplex
is running, then you might connect a power cable to it. But
if running the data cable from a self contained (wall powered)
disk enclosure like you are using, the converter on the card
will make some +5V for USB VBUS, from +12V on the PCI Express
edgecard. When using these sorts of cards here (I have a couple),
I've never connected any 4 pin Molex optional or 15 pin SATA power
optional inputs and it works fine. Mind you, I don't charge iPads
or iPhones either :-) They might be on the order of 2 amps or so,
as an electrical load. I don't know whether the iPad is clever
enough to not overload a USB2 port (which would not have enough
charging current for heavy loads anyway).

I don't know if I've ever seen a transfer rate that matches
any baloney written on the cardboard box. The Optiplex 780 might
be PCI Express Rev 1.1 (250MB/sec) in the small black slot.
With your enclosure, it should do on the order of 200MB/sec.
Versus the 30-35MB/sec of a USB2 port. You can see in my picture
here, the two OSes don't give exactly the same result, and I believe
the transfer rate is actually identical and the math is wrong.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/9FrNY7kx/Benchmarking-Renesas-USB3-PCIe11.gif

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/2/2023 9:20 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

We've moved the bookmarks and 'My Documents'
to the 780 and installed Word and Excel, and created
a simple volume of the 6TB external HD so it's now
functional, all with your good help.

I'm not forgetting your elegant solution for the start
switch for the 8500 with no soldering! I hid the switch
behind a faux optical drive panel so it keeps it clean and
out of sight. Now it starts all the time.

Before we may get cut off, I want to say thank you for
all you've done. You've helped me allot over the years
and built my entire backup system and helped me select
the 780.

What do you think about upgrading the 780 RAMM and
USB ports from 2:0 to 3.0? Is it possible?

What do you recommend I do at this point?

Many Thanks for all your good help,
Robert

Past a certain point, RAM is only useful for certain kinds
of projects.

When your browser "goes nuts", it can use 3GB of RAM. This
means, that maybe 4GB would be a minimum amount of RAM for
the Optiplex. Even though this is not a good usage of the
RAM particularly (it's a bug, not a feature), that would be
an example of a planning exercise.

Windows Update, when new updates were available, a minimum
amount of RAM might have helped that. Some uses by the OS,
would benefit from 2GB to 3GB, even though the amount
written on the box is 1GB minimum. It needs a bit more
than that, to work well.

But when it comes to RAM amounts between 4GB and 16GB.
adding more RAM is "planning for an uncertain future",
but in terms of "feeling some benefit right away",
there is a very good chance you would not get "$38 of fun"
from it :-) I do not want to set your expectations too high
on this. You put in the extra RAM (I have done this), and
the feeling is... no change. Not a bit of change.

And the Optiplex 780 is clever, and it won't switch up to
DDR3-1333 rates when there is an opportunity to do it either.
This is part of the reason there is no "fun factor" involved
here.

The USB3 card, the benefit of that is tangible, in that
your backups should run faster. Note that some modern
drives, do run pretty fast. For example, the monster-sized
drives for sale (the ones that are too expensive for mere
humans to own), those transfer at 291MB/sec. I have a number
of fairly rubbish drives here, that do 150MB/sec on the
outer edge of the platter. The new USB3 card, at an actual
rate of 200MB/sec, is in the ballpark, but if you had
a $700 hard drive, that still would not be fast enough.
(Nothing bad happens, but the drive could have gone faster still.)
Only by placing the USB3 card in the video slot, could
the Optiplex do better, and I'm not sure the Dell will
even allow that. The Dell BIOS is funky (a 1970s term),
to say the least :-)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

You would use the PCI Express black slot at the bottom of the Optiplex 780

Are you talking about the card where the fan is?

I thought that was my video card? I seem to remember you selected that card
for me.

I don't use any ipads or iphones,.. in fact my phone is the old fashion landline type.

I don't really have any projects in mind I just thinking of upgrading if you think
it would help or because I may not be able to later on because of scarcity of available
parts but as you say I won't see any real improvement. I always thought more RAMM
made browsing faster?

It is sad all of our jobs and manufacturing has been off-shored to China
and elsewhere and they've been stealing our intellectual property for decades. What's even more shocking is we let them get away with it. We built China's military complex.

So should I just stay with just what I have on the 780? and not mess with it? It sounds like I shouldn't and should leave well enough alone. I don't want to be
messing around with the 780 Bios for 3.0.

The mrimg backups for the 8500 usually take about 3 1/2 hours because I have so
much data in My Documents.

One last problem, I have a 8GB Sandisk with a folder I want to cut/paste to get the
files off so I can re-use the disk but it doesn't let me where before it had? All it lets
me do now is copy/paste. So how can I delete the folder? I have a 32 GB Sandisk that
I can cut/paste with no problem.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I went and ordered the PCI card and RAM
so that would give me 12GB of RAM in the
780. The same as the 8500.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I checked and the folder is read only so how do I change it so I
can cut/paste it or delete it so I can free up space on the Sandisk?

I also checked the 780 and it only has 4GB of RAM, so maybe adding
more wouldn't hurt? I can also do the 3.0. but which PCI connector is
it again? I don't see a back PCI at the bottom except for the small one
below the two white ones. Is that the one you mean?

At the top are two black slots for RAM correct?

https://postimg.cc/njvyX9xC


Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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While I was relating my problem with the Sandisk
I realized I had no way of reading them on the 780.
Is there a PCI card I can get or a device that will plug
in to the USB port with Sandisk slots that I can use?

https://postimg.cc/gXBCMmbF

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I also wanted to let you know that recently
whenever I post a message I get a pop-up asking
if I'm a robot? So maybe I am being flagged
and that's why you can't see my posts?

https://postimg.cc/1gXB6MGk

This never happened before when I posted.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/5/2023 11:39 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I went and ordered the PCI card and RAM
so that would give me 12GB of RAM in the
780. The same as the 8500.

Robert

You want the RAM to be dual channel configured,
for best performance.

I presume your proposed upgrade, looks like this.

CH0 CH1

2GB 2GB <=== DIMMS in same-colored slots
4GB 4GB

If so, that should be a good configuration. That
should do well on any dual channel motherboard with
four slots like that.

Intel has Flex Memory support, on some of its hardware,
and the Optiplex might have that. When a box has
Flex Memory, you can do this for dual channel

CH0 CH1

2GB 4GB Flex Memory works with balanced channel totals...
2GB ---

The confirmation the Q45 can do this (Optiplex 780),
is on page 527 here, in the "13.2 System Memory Controller" section.

You don't have to stare at all those blasted tables :-) Section
13.2.1.2.2 has the keyword that it is there.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/4-chipset-family-datasheet.pdf

The absolute best mode, is to use identical sticks with
as many pages open as possible in the RAM. The sticks to
do this, haven't been for sale for a long time. The higher
capacity DIMMs you can buy today, mean you can't get
absolutely the max number of ranks and banks and so on.
But even with single sided RAM, this is pretty good.
The memory controller alternates between banks, as
it rises through the address map. If you were a comp.sci
guy, you would write a C program and test the "stride" to figure
out which address bit is the "pivot" for the bank alternation.

CH0 CH1

4GB 4GB <=== DIMMS in same-colored slots
4GB 4GB

This one might be 0.5% lower performance (a definite "Who Cares").

CH0 CH1

2GB 2GB <=== DIMMS in same-colored slots
4GB 4GB

I couldn't guess whether the following has an impact on page policy.
I'd need to run memory tests to try and spot a difference.

CH0 CH1

2GB 4GB Flex Memory works with balanced channel totals...
2GB ---

What really would have helped, is if the machine supported 1333
operation. I think the chipset actually can do that, but the
BIOS isn't set up for that. The machine has a series of
FSB:RAM ratios and companies like Asus and Gigabyte do researches
in the lab to find "missing modes" not in the documents and they
enable them (as long as they're stable). That is how some
of these things were discovered. When using 1333 mode, the
build-in graphics (which you aren't using), would feel "snappy".
On machines with integrated graphics, that's how we seek to
convince a customer their graphics upgrade was "worth it". It's
hard to convince them, otherwise.

That's a little background info.

If you saw an 8GB stick for sale, that might be two 4GB Ranks (2R)
and consequently not a "high density" issue. The 4GB sticks
could be single sided (1R) or double sided (2R), and while
the 2R would give you more open pages, at this point in time,
with the poor availability of stock, is not the time to be
sorting through the pile, for stuff that no longer exists.

I noticed on benches, that if you have the fully symmetric setup,
and you compare your platform to someone elses, you might get 1% more
without overclocking. But 1% isn't something you can feel, so
we are strongly in "dont care" country, when it comes to fussing
over it. The 1333 would have been a "care" case, but the BIOS
just doesn't have the mode for that. I googled, and people make
claims they've done it, but there is absolutely no confirmation
info (a CPU-Z screenshot) to prove any such thing. Any one who was
clever enough to have done it, would have screen shots :-)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/5/2023 9:31 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

You would use the PCI Express black slot at the bottom of the Optiplex 780

Are you talking about the card where the fan is?

I thought that was my video card? I seem to remember you selected that card for me.

I don't use any ipads or iphones,.. in fact my phone is the old fashion landline type.

I don't really have any projects in mind I just thinking of upgrading if you think
it would help or because I may not be able to later on because of scarcity of available
parts but as you say I won't see any real improvement. I always thought more RAMM
made browsing faster?

It is sad all of our jobs and manufacturing has been off-shored to China
and elsewhere and they've been stealing our intellectual property for decades.
What's even more shocking is we let them get away with it. We built China's military complex.

So should I just stay with just what I have on the 780? and not mess with it? It sounds like I shouldn't and should leave well enough alone. I don't want to be
messing around with the 780 Bios for 3.0.

The mrimg backups for the 8500 usually take about 3 1/2 hours because I have so
much data in My Documents.

One last problem, I have a 8GB Sandisk with a folder I want to cut/paste to get the
files off so I can re-use the disk but it doesn't let me where before it had? All it lets
me do now is copy/paste. So how can I delete the folder? I have a 32 GB Sandisk that
I can cut/paste with no problem.

Thanks,
Robert

Your slot layout should be like this.

Black PCIE x16 <=== video card, top slot, very fastest slot in the machine.
PCI 33MHz 32bit white
PCI 33MHz 32bit white
Black PCIE x1 Rev1.1 <=== PCI Express x1 USB3 card goes here (200MB/sec).
This slot is all the way down at the bottom, on a Desktop 780.
This slot is faster than a white slot.

It's a worthwhile upgrade.

And if you can get the RAM, pop it in. One reason I have
useless RAM in a machine, is I think up ways to use it :-)
Excuses, if you will :-) I use RAM for a RAMDisk and put
temporary files in it, while I work. If the power goes off ?
Boom. I will have regrets. You don't store long-term stuff
in there. But it's great if you're unpacking a Firefox source
tarball, and don't want to beat up a regular storage device
doing it.

With 12GB of RAM in the machine, a browser would only use all
of it, if some bug was at play in the code. You will remember the
Yahoo News page, it was a pig, and it used 1GB for a single tab.
Many other pages don't use that much.

*******

Your USB stick may have gone Read-only ?

Are you able to store fresh folders of content on it ?

Here, I am checking for a USB stick that is Read-only.
No, I don't know how to fix it :-) Mine is still write-able
at the device level.

[Picture]

https://i.postimg.cc/RhvdcVd7/checking-for-read-only-on-USB.gif

It could be a permissions issue, if you are using your *non* administrator account. For accounts that belong to the administrator group (UAC, elevation), they will do an implicit TakeOwn to solve permissions problems.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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To be honest, I didn't think about the configuration when I ordered
the RAM from your link you gave. I just assumed everything
would be OK and there's only 2 PCI slots for RAM that I can use.

These are what I ordered:

https://www.newegg.com/crucial-8gb-240-pin-ddr3-sdram/p/N82E16820156050

Here's my 780 specs:

https://postimg.cc/XZz4JJgf

inside the 780

https://postimg.cc/njvyX9xC

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/5/2023 8:51 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I also wanted to let you know that recently
whenever I post a message I get a pop-up asking
if I'm a robot? So maybe I am being flagged
and that's why you can't see my posts?

https://postimg.cc/1gXB6MGk

This never happened before when I posted.

Robert

Google. The gift that keeps on giving.

Sometimes I wonder what the Google staff do for a living :-/

Google groups has quite a spamming problem, so I suppose most
of their posts are spam now (by volume). They should get their
AI ("Bard") on the case, to sort it out for them.

*******

I got lucky, and found a hint about your problem, here.

http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cui8tcr%244epd%241%40dont-email.me%3E

"and, in addition, now Google Groups is requiring a CAPTCHA <===
to post to any other group."

That's why you're seeing the robot box. It is a policy to attempt
to control the flood.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Yes, I understand the black PCI slot now and the the 3.0 port
will actually be in the rear not the front because you mention the
card clamp.

I don't know if you remember that time with the 8200 and I had a
maleware problem and you advised me go to this certain maleware
group dealing with it. Well anyways, the guy there who helped me
suggested I max out the RAM. So that's the reason I maxed the 8500
out on RAM when I bought it and ironically the only way I could get the
12 GB of RAM was with Win 7 Professional. Otherwise I would of gotten
Win 8 instead.

I don't understand how my SanDisk could go read-only? My other one
is fine and I can cut/paste it.

I can use it but I haven't been since I can't cut/paste anymore with it.
I've done this allot on the User account, it just went weird on me.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Not my USB stick , my Sandisk 8GB SD card. Maybe I activated
some sort of read-only protection on the digital camera by accident?

I asked Google how to cut/paste on the right only Sandisk and this
is what it gave:

Disable write protection using command line (CMD)
1. Connect your write protected SD card to your computer.
2. Right Click on Start.- (right clicking only opens properties and Windows Explorer)
3. Type diskpart and hit Enter.
4. Type list disk and hit Enter. …
5. Type select disk . …
6. Type attributes disk clear readonly and press Enter.

Should I try this?

So is that the reason why you're not seeing my posts? Because of the Google groups spamming problem or is it more of a control problem like they had at Twitter and probably Facebook and the rest?

I'll install the PCI card and RAM when it arrives but I was asking since the 780
has no slots for SD cards could we provide one? or as an alternative do they make
adapters that plug into the USB ports with different sizes of slots for SD cards to
plug into?

Thanks,
Robert




--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I see there's lots of SD card readers with USB connection
but is there any you would recommend?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Should I defrag the computer using system tools? I
haven't done it in quite awhile

I would appreciate it if you could briefly take a look
at the folders/files on my Patriot sticks to see if I
should keep any or delete them?

# 1 Patriot
seems to be my bookmarks and an ISO for creating Rescue CD's (2022)

https://postimg.cc/ykYkGwHD

#2 Patriot

780 Rescue Disk - another ISO, Autoruns., Boot, Drivers, EFI -
has the same boot screens as in Boot folder, (mrimg, backup, clone) are
your instructions you gave me previously. SequioaView, Sources - boot-wim, Autoruns, misc files,..

https://postimg.cc/k6m5vHsX

Inside Boot folder

https://postimg.cc/v4ZfW4BS

#3 Patriot
Agent Ransack and misc files, most seem related to SequioaView

https://postimg.cc/CZV03qqc


Also I can't seem to find my instructions for creating Rescue CD's.
Could you please provide them again for me? Also how do I create
a Rescue CD from an ISO?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/6/2023 8:03 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

To be honest, I didn't think about the configuration when I ordered
the RAM from your link you gave. I just assumed everything
would be OK and there's only 2 PCI slots for RAM that I can use.

These are what I ordered:

https://www.newegg.com/crucial-8gb-240-pin-ddr3-sdram/p/N82E16820156050

Here's my 780 specs:

https://postimg.cc/XZz4JJgf

inside the 780

https://postimg.cc/njvyX9xC

Robert

You have two white slots, and you've purchased two DIMMs.
The DIMMs are DDR3. Looks good.

Make sure the alignment slot is turned the right way, to
match the key in the slot. That's how you tell whether the
front and the back are pointed in the right direction.

PC power should be off while doing the RAM install. If you have
a power strip, and switch off the power with the switch, normally
the safety ground would be left connected. Otherwise, don't worry about
the details, just bring yourself to the same electrostatic potential
as the chassis, when inserting the RAM. You can also do that with an
ESD strap (a wrist strap with a 1 megohm series resistance to the
other end of the strap). One end of the ESD strap can go to "chassis",
any metal will do, the strap goes around your wrist, and now you're
at the same ESD potential as the machine.

Seating the DIMM is sometimes problematic, and requires some fiddling
to get it to seat. As long as the slot in the middle of the DIMM,
aligns with the key in the slot, such that the key fits into the slot, eventually it will be seated (thumb pressure downwards). The latch
on the end, should end up in the upright position. The way the bottom
edge is finished, determines the seating pressure required. A well ground
edge on the DIMM, makes it easy to seat. I've had some with a very
stupid edge profile, they were "blunt" and they took tremendous
pressure to seat. I used a piece of wood (carefully), to get enough
downward force for it to snap into place. That should normally
not be required, that much force.

No gold should be seen peeking over the socket. If it is properly
seated, the gold will be below the plastic socket.

Put the machine back together, remove your clip, restore power,
and ideally your first test would be memtest CD. Normally, you
want to verify the RAM is good, so it does not cause a corruption
of Windows (if you boot Windows as your first test). You can verify
your Memtest skills, before the new RAM arrives, and your ability
to get the CD booted and so on.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/7/2023 10:31 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

Should I defrag the computer using system tools? I
haven't done it in quite awhile

I would appreciate it if you could briefly take a look
at the folders/files on my Patriot sticks to see if I
should keep any or delete them?

# 1 Patriot
seems to be my bookmarks and an ISO for creating Rescue CD's (2022)

https://postimg.cc/ykYkGwHD

The rescue.iso is only of value, if you need to burn some sort of media.
If you've already made a CD from that, that would normally be enough
to get the job done, with no additional fuss. I keep some of those
files around, for running in a virtual machine, for test, but that's about
it for those.

#2 Patriot

780 Rescue Disk - another ISO, Autoruns., Boot, Drivers, EFI -
has the same boot screens as in Boot folder, (mrimg, backup, clone) are
your instructions you gave me previously. SequioaView, Sources - boot-wim, Autoruns, misc files,..

https://postimg.cc/k6m5vHsX

Inside Boot folder

https://postimg.cc/v4ZfW4BS

You might boot some computer with this, when you want Macrium to run,
as if it was a Macrium CD.

#3 Patriot
Agent Ransack and misc files, most seem related to SequioaView

https://postimg.cc/CZV03qqc

That's an "application stick", rather than a boot stick. You could
probably recycle that and use it for something else.

Also I can't seem to find my instructions for creating Rescue CD's.
Could you please provide them again for me? Also how do I create
a Rescue CD from an ISO?

Thanks,
Robert

This shows the usage of "Imgburn" to burn a CD.

The idea is, you right-click the ISO file you want
placed on a CD, and Imgburn makes itself a default choice.

https://i.postimg.cc/2rBMhX6k/burn-iso-win7-to-CD.gif

Once Imgburn opens, it should open in the mode to burn an ISO.
(That's why you used the right-click method of starting it,
to get the mode selected.)

You can tick Verify, so it writes the CD, then reads it
back and verifies a good burn. This is more important for
rewriteable media.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/6/2023 10:29 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

Not my USB stick , my Sandisk 8GB SD card. Maybe I activated
some sort of read-only protection on the digital camera by accident?

I asked Google how to cut/paste on the right only Sandisk and this
is what it gave:

Disable write protection using command line (CMD)
1. Connect your write protected SD card to your computer.
2. Right Click on Start.- (right clicking only opens properties and Windows Explorer)
3. Type diskpart and hit Enter.
4. Type list disk and hit Enter. …
5. Type select disk . …
6. Type attributes disk clear readonly and press Enter.

Should I try this?

So is that the reason why you're not seeing my posts? Because of the Google groups spamming problem or is it more of a control problem like they had at Twitter and probably Facebook and the rest?

I'll install the PCI card and RAM when it arrives but I was asking since the 780
has no slots for SD cards could we provide one? or as an alternative do they make
adapters that plug into the USB ports with different sizes of slots for SD cards to
plug into?

Thanks,
Robert

I've been out working in the driveway this week.

To the recipe above, I would select disk, list partitions,
select partition x , detail partition and see if the
Readonly is Yes or not.

There's no point adjusting an attribute, unless the
attribute is Readonly yes. If it is Readonly no,
then clearing readonly isn't going to do anything.

You first need to check the partition(s), by selecting
them, numerically, and reading out their stuff. For
example, you list partitions, you notice one partition
is bigger than the rest, and that's the one you've been
using. You want to "select partition x", where x=big partition number.
Then when you "detail partition", you can see what attributes it has got.

*******

The 780 doesn't have a card reader in the floppy slot in the front.
A card reader is a box with a faceplate, that fits in a 3.5" opening
in the case. It has a USB cable that goes to a motherboard header.

There is a 2x5 header, just below the door-closure-switch cable position.
The door closure switch has a couple wires, red/black twist, and it sits
on the 2xn header there. Just below that header, is an unused header that
might be a USB header. However there is no legend next to it, to confirm
what it is.

https://dl.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_optiplex_desktop/optiplex-780_service%20manual_en-us.pdf

There is a 2x5 female on the end of this example, but they don't show
it plugged into the motherboard. This might have been for sale at
Dell ten years ago.

https://prod-care-community-cdn.sprinklr.com/community/687062f5-603c-4f5f-ab9d-31aa7cacb376/communityasset-4cc91f2c-85f6-4b92-ad5f-f639aaa55334-843465895

( https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/optiplex-desktops/optiplex-780-cable-for-the-internal-card-reader/647fa1e6f4ccf8a8de73f1b7 )

It doesn't have to be a "special" card reader. Any card reader intended
to fit a floppy bay would work. I don't like these to be too fancy, because when they're fancy, a given slot may accept three different devices, and
then there is a danger of "lunching" the connector while inserting. I
like single function slots for this. Extreme examples of this form of card reader, are "52-in-1", but the one in the Dell example is a "19-in-1".

This is just to illustrate, this one comes with the tail on it. Neither
a manual, nor a picture of the back of the unit, are available. Mystery meat.

https://www.newegg.com/bytecc-u2cr-318-all-in-one/p/N82E16820192038

Whereas this one, plugs into the front or the back of the machine.
It is USB3, but the connector will fit a USB2 slot. This has fewer slots
and they're more of a fixed function.

StarTech SDMSDRWU3AC

https://www.newegg.com/startech-com-sdmsdrwu3ac/p/N82E16820130026

https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/sdmsdrwu3ac

That might handle an SD at 95MB/sec (if plugged into a USB3 port,
like the new USB3 port on the back of your 780). It would handle
a 10MB/sec SD if plugged into a USB2 slot, just to give some idea
how the slot type might affect the speed you get out of it.

Mine is that style, but is an older one which only runs at USB2 rates
and does my digital camera 10MB/sec SD.

Because that one looks like a USB key, there's no wiring to do inside
the 780 to make it work. And, it can be plugged into the 8500 as well.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I thought I lost you ! whew!

I haven't got the RAM yet but I have the PCI 3.0 card
and will install both when I get the RAM. I thought it
would be here by now.

So the white slots are for the RAM? OK, got it.
Yes, I noticed the slot in the RAM when I bought it
and on the white slots. so it should be easy What are
the two large black slots at the top for? and just out of
curiosity what are the blue and red things on the right
side?

Inside 780:

https://postimg.cc/XXVDW6sz

I'll un-plug the 780 and remove all the connections
before I open it. I do have a strap, again thanks to you.
I'll run a memtest CD after I power it back up.

I think I'll skip the SD read only disk problem,.... I have enough
on my plate. I'll just buy another SD disk and I have others that
work fine.

It's true the 780 doesn't have a card reader on the front
but there are two empty face plates, one is normal size but
the other one is smaller. However, I like the card reader you picked
with the USB connection. So I'll get the Startech.

I deleted all the files off the Patriot #3 USB stick so it's all clean

I de-fragged both computers and the8500 seems quicker but there's
still a lag problem at times. Should I also do Disk-Clean-up and use
the defaults?

Most importantly, I still need your instructions on how to create
Rescue CD's and how to create Rescue CD from an ISO and how
to burn CD's on image burn. I really need these.

I think you already answered how to burn a CD from an ISO file
by right click it. but I don't seem to have instructions on how to
create a Rescue CD.

Hopefully, the RAM will arrive today and will let you know how it
goes after I install it and run the memtest CD.

Many Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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p.s. where do I get the ISO file to create a Rescue CD?
and then the procedure to create one?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I just tracked the RAM order and it
says it will be delivered between
Nov 20-30. Yet I placed the order
before the PCI card and I already
have it.

We just have to wait for it,.....

In passing, what were you doing in
the driveway? repaving, border?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/11/2023 2:42 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

p.s. where do I get the ISO file to create a Rescue CD?
and then the procedure to create one?

Thanks,
Robert

It's in the "Other tasks" menu.

If you don't have a blank USB key inserted in the machine
when you do it, then only the ISO is offered as an option.

https://i.postimg.cc/MKb9T6Yy/create-rescue-media.gif

You can see some useful options such as

"Check for devices missing drivers on boot"

That would be good for when the new USB3 card is installed.
Macrium will then be watching for a driver. In the regular OS,
you will be reading the instructions for the new card, and using
the driver CD in the box.

The Windows PE 10 choice, should have a USB3 card driver for
the Macrium environment, for your rescue media.

Since your USB key can be used multiple times, you can
put a new version on one of those. You have I think, at
least one key with Macrium on it already. And you could
put your practice versions on the USB key.

If you want to use the USB key, and the files already on it
have been dumped somewhere, you can plug the USb key in
before using the "Other Tasks" menu and "Create Rescue Media"
and the USB key should be a choice in "Select Device".

But this is all in aid, of getting the USB3 card on the 780
working in the Macrium environment. When it all seems to work,
then you could make an ISO and burn a CD. I don't want to
waste your media on experiments.

Getting the USB3 card to work in the regular OS, is one thing.

Getting the USb3 card to work in Macrium, is relatively easy
(by making new media), but by testing with a USB key first,
you can ensure you are satisfied it is working, before making
a CD. Then the USB key, you can do whatever you want with it
after the experiment stage is over.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/11/2023 12:20 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I thought I lost you ! whew!

I haven't got the RAM yet but I have the PCI 3.0 card
and will install both when I get the RAM. I thought it
would be here by now.

So the white slots are for the RAM? OK, got it.
Yes, I noticed the slot in the RAM when I bought it
and on the white slots. so it should be easy What are
the two large black slots at the top for? and just out of
curiosity what are the blue and red things on the right
side?

Inside 780:

https://postimg.cc/XXVDW6sz

I'll un-plug the 780 and remove all the connections
before I open it. I do have a strap, again thanks to you.
I'll run a memtest CD after I power it back up.

I think I'll skip the SD read only disk problem,.... I have enough
on my plate. I'll just buy another SD disk and I have others that
work fine.

It's true the 780 doesn't have a card reader on the front
but there are two empty face plates, one is normal size but
the other one is smaller. However, I like the card reader you picked
with the USB connection. So I'll get the Startech.

I deleted all the files off the Patriot #3 USB stick so it's all clean

I de-fragged both computers and the8500 seems quicker but there's
still a lag problem at times. Should I also do Disk-Clean-up and use
the defaults?

Most importantly, I still need your instructions on how to create
Rescue CD's and how to create Rescue CD from an ISO and how
to burn CD's on image burn. I really need these.

I think you already answered how to burn a CD from an ISO file
by right click it. but I don't seem to have instructions on how to
create a Rescue CD.

Hopefully, the RAM will arrive today and will let you know how it
goes after I install it and run the memtest CD.

Many Thanks,
Robert

The DIMM slots, the lock latches are colored like that, to
allow the user to install stuff in "dual channel" mode. Putting
a matched pair in the two white is "dual channel". Putting
a matched pair in the two black slots is "dual channel". That
is where the notion came from , when memory changed from
single channel to dual channel.

In single channel days, there would be three memory slots and
the slots all had latches of the same color. Dual channel
is "twice as fast".

*******

The blue and red things on the right side, could be the
DB9 serial port and the red thing is a DB25 parallel port,
at a guess. They don't put parallel ports on PCs any more,
that I know of. Serial ports exist, but they put them in
computers as pin headers on the surface of the motherboard,
expecting the user to go shopping for an adapter to use it.

Parallel ports were used for printers at one time. That's
why there could be a printer icon next to it. But Parallel Ports
have four modes, so there were other hardware things you could
do with it. There were eight TTL level signals, and they could
be changed in software at around 500KHz or so. Pretty slow compared
to other hardware signals in the PC. There have been storage
devices that used to run off that 25 pin connector (slow).

*******

As for the lag problem, it would depend what activity is lagging,
as to whether certain things would help. Defragmenting the disk
might help with general activity such a program loading times.

On a browser, sometimes the amount of temporary files the thing
has stored, slow down the browser. And also, the files that the
web sites abuse, those can grow with time. The cookie.sqlite file as an example, can get pretty full, but on the other hand, it is not
accessed that often. I think they may try to do stuff to
a file called "webappsstore.sqlite". That seems to grow, and
my browser gets slow when that is over 10 megabytes.

The "cache2" folder for the browser, has an "entries" folder and
that can have a lot of stuff in it. The browser, in "about:config"
has a control that defines the maximum size of the folder, and
that should not be set too high, as it allows too many files
to be stored in "entries". That would not normally be a problem,
unless the user had been fiddling with the value and made it way
too large.

*******

We had a bit of fun with this, on this date.

Sat, 17 Aug 2019 14:19:45 -0400

https://i.postimg.cc/yN96d68h/rescue-media.gif

This is an example of making an ISO file, and then you can use
Imgburn later with it. You should pick a name for the file,
that has the release and the intended computer perhaps, because the
ISO files are relatively indistinguishable later.

https://i.postimg.cc/MKb9T6Yy/create-rescue-media.gif

If you insert a USB key, you can place Macrium on the USB key...
That would save on making a rescue CD, but then you have to
convince the Optiplex to boot from it. The USB key can go in
a USB2 slot (one of the six slots on the back of the machine
or one on the front perhaps). The new USB3 card, is not for booting.

https://i.postimg.cc/vBgStzJV/macrium-sees-USB-key.gif

By using WinPE 10, there will be a driver to make the new USB3 card work.
One of your older CDs, may not have the USB3 driver. You will know,
if Macrium warns you about "some driver is missing". Or, if plugging
a USB3 enclosure into the USB3 card, is not working. For the regular OS,
the USB3 card will only work, if you use the CD that comes in the USB3
card box.

Could you make the Macrium media *after* the USB3 card is in the 780 ?
That way, while Macrium is making the media, it may complain if it
knows the driver for the USB3 is not present. I'm just trying to
avoid too many surprises, at the current time.

If you make Macrium media, on one of your freed up Patriot sticks,
that could tide you over until your hardware situation is stable.
And then, if you want to make a CD, the CD is more likely to be
ready for the new stable situation. Putting Macrium on a USB key,
is good when "experimenting" with your builds, and getting everything
done right. Once you are confident the USB key version is "good",
you can then go back to Macrium and use the ISO choice, to make an ISO.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I'm confused as far as step 1,2,3 I open create Rescue media and then?
Do I select Advanced options then PE10, then OK, then build?

I'm not fully understanding putting Macrium on the Patriot USB stick?
How do I do it? Do you mean put the ISO file on the stick? It sounds if
I do this it will make all my other Rescue CD's useless. This is just for
the 780 right to verify that the 3.0 is working ?

I have a blank USB key I can use.

btw I had that Win 11 pop-up again. I forget while I was doing. I
just closed it again.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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OK, I followed the steps up to selecting PE10
but if I understand you correctly you want me
to do this after I install the PCI 3.0 card, correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong but is PE10 a ISO that
you want me to use on a 2.0 port to see if it boots
the 780 to check and verify the 3.0 port is working?

My question is will this make the previous Rescue
CD's obsolete because of the new drivers added by
doing this?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I was following you about putting Macrium (WinPE 10)
on the Patriot Drive but you lost me on how were going to
convince the 780 to boot from it?

Also should I do the same to the 8500 and be using
WinPE10? If so, then it would make all my current Rescue
CD's obsolete. That's what you meant about creating new
media, new Rescue CD's from the ISO.

Yes, I will try and create a Macrium media after the USB3
card is installed in the 780 and we can go from there. I'll keep
you posted and let you know how everything goes of course.

I think I do have a 2022 version of Macrium on one of the
Patriot keys. That's why I wanted you to look at them but
that isn't WinPE10. It seems to me that I'm going to have to
make a whole new batch of Rescue CD's for both computers
so they are both WinPE10.


Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Here's a summary of upcoming procedures when the RAM arrives;

1. install RAM and PCI card with mini disk
2. run memtest CD
3. create macrium media (WinPE 10) - use 2.0 port to boot from
how will 780 see it?
4. create Rescue CD's from ISO - procedure?

This has nothing to do with the computers per se but was weird,
I have a Sony DSC-TX20 camera but when I tried to use it,
it says the SD card is locked but it's not locked. I tried another
SD card and it said the same thing but when I tried it in another
camera it was ok? I don't get it? It was fine yesterday.

What's weird is that when I put the read only SD card in it, it
worked fine although I still can't can't/paste to delete the folder/files
but then when I put the non- working SD card back in the camera it
worked as usual as if nothing happened! Talk about off the wall.

I picked up (2) more 32 GB Lexar SD cards as extra's at Staples today
they didn't have Sandisk's.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/11/2023 2:32 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

OK, I followed the steps up to selecting PE10
but if I understand you correctly you want me
to do this after I install the PCI 3.0 card, correct?

Correct me if I'm wrong but is PE10 a ISO that
you want me to use on a 2.0 port to see if it boots
the 780 to check and verify the 3.0 port is working?

My question is will this make the previous Rescue
CD's obsolete because of the new drivers added by
doing this?

Robert

I would not say your previous rescue CDs are "obsolete".

What you're doing, is you are adding a USB3 card to the
Optiplex. You will install a driver from the CD that
came in the box with the USB3 card.

Now, when you are running the Macrium CD and doing a
bare metal restore, the USB3 card is not going to work
with the old Rescue CD. You could *still* plug the external
hard drive enclosure into a USB2 port, and do a backup
or a restore at reduced speed.

Making new media, is so you can make a 780 backup or a restore,
at 150MB/sec for a typical drive. The Patriot key plugged
in, before you start the rescue media step, it's going to
acquire a USB3 driver from PE10. You don't absolutely need to have the
USB3 card in the computer, if you're itching to go. But, if
you have the USB3 card in the PC, as soon as the build onto
the Patriot key is finished, you can immediately boot the
Patriot key, and see in the Macrium File Manager, that the
drive letter for that drive-on-USB3-port, has appeared.
What you should notice, is if making a backup of the 780,
using your new WinPE 10 version of software, things run
a lot faster. At least 4x faster. It's possible the internal
drive you're backing up, is the slowest part in the transfer then.

USB2 (boot) port <=== Patriot key

USB3 port <=== External USB3 hard drive enclosure (or a USB2 enclosure even)

When you're running Macrium on the computer and making this media,
the Macrium software has a version number like 7.3.1234 kind of thing.
It's that version, that helps determine whether the old versions
of CDs will work with that backup or not. So if the existing Rescue CDs
you made were 7.3.1234 and the Patriot was also made by version
7.3.1234, then the two medias are "equally compatible". The difference
between them, is the Patriot stick allows you to use your new USB3
card on the 780. The WinPE 10 would also work on the 8500, so that
a USB3 port (blue tab) would work while booting the Patriot key.

The WinPE 10 driver should work with any USB3 chip. (There aren't too many
USB3 chips which are new enough to defeat WinPE 10. Some day,
we might need an even newer WinPE, but I don't know if one has been
issued or not. The drivers normally work, because new USB3 chips
would have the same register definitions as those that came before.)

Your two machines are new enough, to be Win10 compatible. A Core2
processor is Win10 compatible. But when it comes to Win11, I think
like most of the computers in the room here, the CPU isn't new enough
for Windows 11. At least, the installer Microsoft uses, will tell you
a story like that. Why they pester people who can't run the software,
I'll never know.

You can use Rufus, to build an installer stick, that will install W11
on both your computers. The problem with the method is, any time a
major upgrade comes in, the upgrade is guaranteed to fail. This potentially means, that the Rufus method is extra work and research for people to do.
I think I tested a Rufus, but it rolled back when I tried to put w11 22h2 over it.

As far as I can remember, W11 21H2 was the first, W11 22H2 was the second,
and W11 23H2 has just come out. I haven't installed 23H2 by the looks of it. I'm 22621 and the new one is 22631. Articles like this in Wikipedia,
have the digit strings so I can check.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11_version_history

21H2 22000
22H2 22621 <=== One machine runs this
23H2 22631 <=== Haven't installed this yet (release is 12 days old or so)
I have to deal with this before November 14 (Patch Tuesday).
Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/11/2023 9:19 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I'm confused as far as step 1,2,3 I open create Rescue media and then?
Do I select Advanced options then PE10, then OK, then build?

That sounds like the basic idea.

"Building" means to assemble all the moving parts from the
WADK, to make a tiny OS that boots.

I'm not fully understanding putting Macrium on the Patriot USB stick?
How do I do it? Do you mean put the ISO file on the stick? It sounds if
I do this it will make all my other Rescue CD's useless. This is just for
the 780 right to verify that the 3.0 is working ?

I have a blank USB key I can use.

You insert the USB key, before selecting "Create Rescue media".
The software interface for "selecting a device to use", will
then include the USB stick. You click the USB stick to highlight
it, as the device that will be accepting the build. Then, go to Advanced
and select your WinPE flavor. And so on.

btw I had that Win 11 pop-up again. I forget while I was doing. I
just closed it again.

Robert

Normally, I would not expect a Win11 popup, unless I was running Win10.

Your machines aren't likely a good match for Win11, because the CPU
can only be 3-5 years old or so. My Test Machine, it's not Win11 ready.

Your Optiplex has a TPM, but it probably is not TPM 2.0 . That can be
used for Secure Boot. The Optiplex doesn't really have a UEFI BIOS,
as near as I can tell.

The XPS 8500 is closer.

If they did attempt to install Windows 11, chances are it would
roll back because of a compatibility issue. Even video cards,
they might not do a proper check when the installation of Win11
starts, but it could roll back on video card. The Optiplex 780 for
example, the built-in graphics aren't good enough for W10 22H2
(which is the current and last release of W10). If you try to upgrade
an Optiplex 780 from 21H2 to 22H2 (and you didn't add a video card),
it would roll back. Your picture shows a video card in the video
slot, so chances are your Optiplex could run W10 22H2. But W11 on
the Optiplex 780, isn't even close. The checker should tell you,
without wasting your time on an install attempt, that the CPU is too
old (does not have MEBX).

They tried to lard up W11 with security features, and when I'm running
W11, most all of that is switched off. They will undoubtedly try that
with W12 as well, make some security feature mandatory, that I don't have.
I have only one machine that can run W11. W11 has some sort of sandbox I've never used, as an example.

*******

This guy makes utilities for setting some registry entries that
control upgrading. If you were running W10 or W11, the program
can stop the version from changing. Where it says 21H2, you could
set that to 22H2, and then no upgrade could go past 22H2.

Entering W10 in the box, prevents W11 from coming in. But that
isn't for a machine running Win7, because Win7 doesn't understand
those labels. The "Never 10" utility, is for an earlier point in
time, where they were pushing Windows 10. Right now, you cannot
use W7 or W8.1 to advance to W10 any more, as the "free upgrade"
has stopped. If you did try the free upgrade previously, then
erased Win10 (Macrium restore to W7), you would still have the license key
for Win10, and you could then install Win10 today. It's the handing
out of license keys that has stopped -- you can still re-install W10.

I might have mentioned that being a reason for installing Win10,
then rolling back with Macrium, as that way you could "claim"
your license, before the free offer is finished.

https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 11/11/2023 8:27 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I was following you about putting Macrium (WinPE 10)
on the Patriot Drive but you lost me on how were going to
convince the 780 to boot from it?

You press F12 while the Dell animation is on the 780 screen.
As that progress bar advances, you press F12.

Also should I do the same to the 8500 and be using
WinPE10? If so, then it would make all my current Rescue
CD's obsolete. That's what you meant about creating new
media, new Rescue CD's from the ISO.

You can try the 780 USB key on the 8500 if you want.

Yes, I will try and create a Macrium media after the USB3
card is installed in the 780 and we can go from there. I'll keep
you posted and let you know how everything goes of course.

I think I do have a 2022 version of Macrium on one of the
Patriot keys. That's why I wanted you to look at them but
that isn't WinPE10. It seems to me that I'm going to have to
make a whole new batch of Rescue CD's for both computers
so they are both WinPE10.

Thoughts/suggestions?
Robert

You could test your existing Patriot with the USB3 enclosure,
but it might end up running at USB2 speed, and that wouldn't
be so nice. It's pretty hard to determine what speed the interface
is running at, as the Macrium interface does not always have a
speed indicator while it runs. Some operation are devoid of that
speed thing.

If you want to make CDs, you can. Initially, I just want to make
sure at least one build works properly on the USB stick, so you know
it is going to work, and you won't be wasting a CD for nothing.
You could make a CD for the 780, a CD for the 8500 on the 8500
version, and then the Patriot key would be free for some other purpose.
It's up to you as to which method has the best economics. I've wasted
a few CD-R here for nothing, making software versions that went out of
date. I use more -RW ones as they can be erased. I also temporarily
put installers on USB sticks. At least, until the USB stick wears out.

But first of all, I want to test that the Patriot key makes the USB3 card deliver.
And that your backup finished 4x faster. You'll be a Build expert at that point, and can go off and make the CDs you want. *Always* label the
CD with the Windows installed version of Macrium and its release number.
The 7.3.1234 kind of thing. You might even be running a Version 8
for all I know.

My optical media for Macrium, always has the release number on it. I don't restore a Macrium 7 backup with a Macrium 5 CD. At least, I try not to.
For "full" backups, there is a good chance that will even work! but
don't quote me on that. I try to match the releases if I can.

My MRIMG names look like

W11HOME-quick-image-736391-00-00.mrimg.7z

That's a 7.3.6391 backup, which has been compressed so it takes less space. Compressing takes a long time, and makes the fan spin faster.

I label ones that are known to be temporary, like this

W11HOME-quick-image-736391-ERASEME-00-00.mrimg.7z

I can do a search on "ERASEME" and all the ones I can toss out,
show up in the window. That's what tagged labeling is for.
On ambiguous ones, the machine identifier needs to be included.
One machine being Intel, one machine being AMD. W11 only runs on the
AMD machine, so I don't need a tag for that. W10 runs everywhere here,
so it needs a more careful label.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/12/2023 2:51 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Here's a summary of upcoming procedures when the RAM arrives;

1. install RAM and PCI card with mini disk
2. run memtest CD
3. create macrium media (WinPE 10) - use 2.0 port to boot from
how will 780 see it?
4. create Rescue CD's from ISO - procedure?

This has nothing to do with the computers per se but was weird,
I have a Sony DSC-TX20 camera but when I tried to use it,
it says the SD card is locked but it's not locked. I tried another
SD card and it said the same thing but when I tried it in another
camera it was ok? I don't get it? It was fine yesterday.

What's weird is that when I put the read only SD card in it, it
worked fine although I still can't can't/paste to delete the folder/files
but then when I put the non- working SD card back in the camera it
worked as usual as if nothing happened! Talk about off the wall.

I picked up (2) more 32 GB Lexar SD cards as extra's at Staples today
they didn't have Sandisk's.

Robert

On the 780, your USB2 ports are the boot ports. Press F12,
let it see one boot stick plugged into USB2, and it'll work.

The new USB3 card is only for your USB3 enclosure and for doing backup/restore.

The problem is, the BIOS won't boot from the USB3 card.
However, once any OS is running, they are allowed to use
the USB3 card as a "data card". It's just booting that does not
work. The port on the USB3 card is still useful and general
purpose. But, booting is out. If the card had a "config EEPROM" on it,
then it could boot. And there are a bunch of add-in card types,
that they never wrote code for them.

Someone made a dual NVMe card, and we never thought those would ever
boot. They made a config EEPROM for it, and it boots. And... they
charge $500.00 per card :-/ You see, that's what happens when these
things are a technical challenge. If no one else can make one, the card
is extremely expensive, just to get boot.

If you have BIOS-building software, you can include a module to
boot from a USB3 card. I haven't seen anyone mention BIOS-hacking
around here, for a number of years. My Nforce2 motherboard, was
the last one where people were hacking them on USENET. They needed to
patch the SIL3112 SATA controller, and the manufacturer didn't patch it,
so the users had to.

My Asrock 4coreduo motherboard, a guy in Germany hacked a BIOS for us,
turning on EIST (Intel SpeedStep). That allows the processor to run at 2GHz when idle, and 3GHz when busy. The Intel lawyers made Asrock turn that off,
the hacker helped us turn it back on again :-) There is nothing complicated about the hack, it's just a flag that "makes the setting appear on the screen". The code was always in there, it was just "invisible" and the hack makes
it "visible" again so you can use it.

Just a lot of silly crap, so you can use a computer.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I believe we did add a video card because
you selected the card with the fan on it and
I remember installing it.

We don't have to worry about Win 11 pop-up
I have (2) spare bootable Win 10 hd's that we
made when they still offered the free upgrade
and you advised I do it so I did for both computers.

You lost me, you said when I use the macrium cd
and do a bare metal restore. I thought by using macrium
were not metal to metal?

I still do not understand how I am going to boot from
the USB once the build for PE10 is finished?

If I understand you correctly I plug the external
hd in the 3.0 port for backups and the USB with
the PE10 in the 2.0 port and then ?

So I should make new Rescue CD's (PE10) for both
computers so they are both compatible. It seems so.


Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Oh, so I press F12 to get the USB with PE10 to boot

I wasn't thinking of using the 780 USB on the 8500.
Rather I was thinking of creating one for the 8500
because they wouldn't be compatible would they?
Just as the Rescue CD's aren't compatible.

I don't have the PCI card installed yet so I can't
test it with my older 2022 ISO on the Patriot. I want
to install the RAM first because otherwise the PCI card
will be in the way and I also don't want to open up the
780 twice. So we just have to wait for the RAM. I
didn't think it would take this long.

I think I will make some new Rescue CD's after all
this is done and yes I label all my CD's like the following

8500 Rescue CD

12-5-2022

V7.2, 64bit

but I think I'll add PE10 to it. I see that I used to include
that in the beginning with PE 3.1 and I have done
V8, PE 3.1, 64 bit . I think I showed you my mrimgs log I
keep.

https://postimg.cc/jLw3FrRJ

I'll re-read your instructions and hopefully everything will
go as planned.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I created a WinPE10 on the Patriot key.

https://postimg.cc/f3G5Xst4

https://postimg.cc/ctmcV8DZ

https://postimg.cc/QVw5dmTP

https://postimg.cc/NKYKKzfN

https://postimg.cc/JDy0wwPh

https://postimg.cc/CZ2MsPSp

https://postimg.cc/t7WRFNc8

https://postimg.cc/QFxXGGMr

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I created a WinPE10 on the Patriot key.

https://postimg.cc/f3G5Xst4

https://postimg.cc/ctmcV8DZ

https://postimg.cc/QVw5dmTP

https://postimg.cc/NKYKKzfN

https://postimg.cc/JDy0wwPh

https://postimg.cc/CZ2MsPSp

https://postimg.cc/t7WRFNc8

https://postimg.cc/QFxXGGMr

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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After I ran SuperAntiSyware scan the Explorer 11 popped up
up again.

https://postimg.cc/CRCn3jMX

https://postimg.cc/CdH1LFpn

I tried posting this on the 780 but it just hung there after I clicked
I'm not a robot but it didn't have a OK box and I tried several times
with the same result. So I ended up having to take pics and post this
on the 8500 instead.

Isn't there some way of stopping this? As I said, I have (2) bootable
hd's with Win 10 so I don't need or want this. I prefer Win 7 Pro.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/13/2023 5:26 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

After I ran SuperAntiSyware scan the Explorer 11 popped up
up again.

https://postimg.cc/CRCn3jMX

https://postimg.cc/CdH1LFpn

I tried posting this on the 780 but it just hung there after I clicked
I'm not a robot but it didn't have a OK box and I tried several times
with the same result. So I ended up having to take pics and post this
on the 8500 instead.

Isn't there some way of stopping this? As I said, I have (2) bootable
hd's with Win 10 so I don't need or want this. I prefer Win 7 Pro.

Robert

OK, that's Internet Explorer 11 showing up.

When IE11 is installed and has not been used yet, it
"asks what settings to use". You can select the defaults if
you want, as a means to stop the dialog from showing up.

Note that, when Internet Explorer starts, the home page is
set to a Microsoft web site. At the current time, they have
loaded something on that web site, that "breaks" Internet Explorer
(even IE11) and the browser then no longer works.

As a result, I do not recommend starting Internet Explorer. You can
tick the box to select the default choices. But if IE11 browser
actually opens, there will be trouble.

If you think Internet Explorer is about to start, you can unplug
the network cable, until you define a new value for the IE11 home page.
That way, Microsoft cannot break it.

Breaking the browser, is to keep people from using it. But, since
you regularly use Firefox, there is little chance IE11 will start.
Except if some Microsoft tool insists on opening it.

*******

You are using a web browser to access groups.google.com .

At the current time, there is a spam flood. And the Robot dialog is
showing up, because Google thinks that is a barrier to the flooding
going on.

If the browser on a machine freezes, after clicking the "I'm not a robot"
tick box, then it could be that the browser is getting too old. Note
that they have stopped making new versions of Firefox for Windows 7,
so at some point, yours will stop updating to the next release.
Then, if a "feature" is missing from the browser, perhaps some
web page code won't work right. And that could account for your
symptoms.

They aren't making new browser versions for either Firefox or for Chrome,
on Windows 7. The companies are trying to treat Windows 7 like it was WinXP.

Paul

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On 11/13/2023 2:51 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I believe we did add a video card because
you selected the card with the fan on it and
I remember installing it.

We don't have to worry about Win 11 pop-up
I have (2) spare bootable Win 10 hd's that we
made when they still offered the free upgrade
and you advised I do it so I did for both computers.

You lost me, you said when I use the macrium cd
and do a bare metal restore. I thought by using macrium
were not metal to metal?

I still do not understand how I am going to boot from
the USB once the build for PE10 is finished?

If I understand you correctly I plug the external
hd in the 3.0 port for backups and the USB with
the PE10 in the 2.0 port and then ?

So I should make new Rescue CD's (PE10) for both
computers so they are both compatible. It seems so.

Robert

Whether you make a Macrium CD or a Macrium USB stick,
they are at a minimum, for emergency restorations where
the normal C: hard drive may have malfunctioned.

When you buy a replacement drive for a failed drive,
the new drive has nothing on it.

To put the software back, you have to boot something.
And that's the Macrium CD. It can do a "bare metal"
(new hard drive) restore, putting the content back
that you captured in an ordinary backup operation.

At a minimum then, the Macrium CD has to support restore.

But it also happens to do backup, so if you want to do
a backup from the CD/USBStick, you can. You can back up
the internal drive, to the external drive, using the CD.

*******

The Optiplex 780 has two BIOS entry keys at startup.

The F2 key enters the BIOS. One of the BIOS settings,
is to set the boot order. You can put USB stick ahead
of CD drive ahead of hard drive. Then, if either USB
stick is present, or there is a CD in the optical drive
tray, the Optiplex 780 will select those, instead of the
hard drive.

Sometimes, a situation may arise, where the normal boot
order does not seem to be working. The F12 key pressed
during the Dell animation when the BIOS starts, causes
the "popup boot" to appear. In there, you can cursor down
and select the USB device. You can only plug one USB device
in at a time.

Since the external disk enclosure is connected
to the new USB3 card, the BIOS "cannot see it" and the BIOS
cannot be confused by whatever is on the USB3 port. Whatever
is plugged into the USB2 ports, can be considered. I don't
think the Optiplex likes having two USB sticks for example,
as there is no "enumeration" of both of them, and which
stick will boot, you don't know. That is why you only can
select "some" USB device, because the BIOS does not identify
the USB stick model number.

When the build of the Macrium USB key is complete (it's plugged
into a USB2 port), you can restart the machine, then press F12
when the Dell animation appears, and select the USB stick
from that menu. If you get the "Press any key..." prompt,
then you press a key on the keyboard, to accept the USB
as the boot device.

*******

I don't know about the XPS 8500, whether it enumerates all USB
items and allowed you to select a specific one or not.

But on the Optiplex 780, you will do this:

USB2 port (six ports on the back for example) <=== Patriot stick (or your CD in CD tray)

USB3 card gets USB3 external hard drive <=== BIOS cannot see this, at boot time

*******

You can make media as you see fit. For example, here, I have one USB key
with Macrium 7 on it, and that boots either of my machines.

If you want to make a CD for each machine, you can. But I don't want
to force you to make media, you don't want to make.

Your USB key can be temporary or permanent. It will boot faster.
But, it ties up the stick. If you make a CD afterwards, then
you don't have to keep the USB key in Macrium mode, and can use
the USB key for other purposes.

I don't think I've run into a problem yet, where the media I made
wasn't good enough for the job. I always seemed to manage to gain
access to the backup storage. Sometimes, for example, I use a file share
on the other machine, as a place to store the backup .mrimg I am making.
That's limited to 112MB/sec of the Ethernet interface. Usually the
storage device is faster than that, so the Ethernet interface is
the bottleneck if I do a backup to a file share.

A WinPE 10 Macrium OS, might not have booted on the RAMBUS machine.
That is because the processor is before Core2 generation. But your
Optiplex 780 and the XPS 8500, are modern enough that the Macrium Key
you're making, might well work equally on the two machines.

To back up a Windows 10 OS drive, you'd need a version of Macrium
greater than 6.3.1865. A version 7 or a version 8 install would work.
This helps handle the non-standard changes to NTFS file system. But
since you're not regularly running Windows 10 at the moment, you
don't have to worry too much about that. I use my Macrium 7.3 or so USB
stick, and that's good enough for W10 OS and W11 OS backups. I think I
have Macrium 8 installed on one of my OSes here, but I cannot remember
which one.

If you do make the CD for each machine, you can make it on the machine
it is associated with. And store the CD in a jewel box with labeling
indicating machine it is intended for, and what version of Macrium
was used.

Paul

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