On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 15:57:16 -0800, Robert in CA <RobCA1@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This concerns the 8500

I do backups on the 1st of every month. I ran the 780 backup
with no problems. However when I started to do the backups
for the 8500 it wouldn't boot from the Rescue CD. It keeps
going to the Windows Boot Manager screen.

I load the Rescue CD and it reads it.

I then restart the computer but no message comes up to select
any key to boot from the CD. Instead it goes straight to the
Windows boot Mgr screen. It does the same thing when I try
hitting F12 or F8.

I've tried several times with the same result.

I run scan all the time and I haven't picked up anything.
What could cause the CD not being selected and disable
the F8 and F12 functions when just a month before it worked?
Yet the computer itself seems to function normally. I
haven't noticed anything weird.

Should I try System Restore or maybe use my mrimgs
and restore it to the last mrimg and then make a new
update from that?

Thoughts/suggestions?

Did you tell it boot from the CD in the BIOS settings?

Did you check the CD is bootable in another system?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


This concerns the 8500

I do backups on the 1st of every month. I ran the 780 backup
with no problems. However when I started to do the backups
for the 8500 it wouldn't boot from the Rescue CD. It keeps
going to the Windows Boot Manager screen.

I load the Rescue CD and it reads it.

I then restart the computer but no message comes up to select
any key to boot from the CD. Instead it goes straight to the
Windows boot Mgr screen. It does the same thing when I try
hitting F12 or F8.

I've tried several times with the same result.

I run scan all the time and I haven't picked up anything.
What could cause the CD not being selected and disable
the F8 and F12 functions when just a month before it worked?
Yet the computer itself seems to function normally. I
haven't noticed anything weird.

Should I try System Restore or maybe use my mrimgs
and restore it to the last mrimg and then make a new
update from that?

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
Robert


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 15:57:16 -0800, Robert in CA <RobCA1@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This concerns the 8500

I do backups on the 1st of every month. I ran the 780 backup
with no problems. However when I started to do the backups
for the 8500 it wouldn't boot from the Rescue CD. It keeps
going to the Windows Boot Manager screen.

I load the Rescue CD and it reads it.

I then restart the computer but no message comes up to select
any key to boot from the CD. Instead it goes straight to the
Windows boot Mgr screen. It does the same thing when I try
hitting F12 or F8.

I've tried several times with the same result.

I run scan all the time and I haven't picked up anything.
What could cause the CD not being selected and disable
the F8 and F12 functions when just a month before it worked?
Yet the computer itself seems to function normally. I
haven't noticed anything weird.

Should I try System Restore or maybe use my mrimgs
and restore it to the last mrimg and then make a new
update from that?

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
Robert

Shouldn't you be asking in alt.windows7.general?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Did you tell it boot from the CD in the BIOS settings?

Did you check the CD is bootable in another system?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

I cannot access the bios settings.

I do not have access to another compatible system.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Did you tell it boot from the CD in the BIOS settings?

Did you check the CD is bootable in another system?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

I cannot access the bios settings.

I do not have access to another compatible system
however I did try another Rescue CD with the same
result.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Robert in CA <RobCA1@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This concerns the 8500

I do backups on the 1st of every month. I ran the 780 backup
with no problems. However when I started to do the backups
for the 8500 it wouldn't boot from the Rescue CD. It keeps
going to the Windows Boot Manager screen.

I load the Rescue CD and it reads it.

I then restart the computer but no message comes up to select
any key to boot from the CD. Instead it goes straight to the
Windows boot Mgr screen. It does the same thing when I try
hitting F12 or F8.

What is the boot device order in the BIOS?

What daughtercards are plugged into the motherboard slots? Some will immediately follow the system BIOS load with their own BIOS load, like
SCSI or RAID cards.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/1/2022 6:57 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower,  with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST6000DM001 6TB
128MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

This concerns the 8500

I do backups on the 1st of every month. I ran the 780 backup
with no problems. However when I started to do the backups
for the 8500 it wouldn't boot from the Rescue CD. It keeps
going to the Windows Boot Manager screen.

I load the Rescue CD and it reads it.

I then restart the computer but no message comes up to select
any key to boot from the CD. Instead it goes straight to the
Windows boot Mgr screen. It does the same thing when I try
hitting F12 or F8.

I've tried several times with the same result.

I run scan all the time and I haven't picked up anything.
What could cause the CD not being selected and disable
the F8 and F12 functions when just a month before it worked?
Yet the computer itself seems to function normally. I
haven't noticed anything weird.

Should I try System Restore or maybe use my mrimgs
and restore it to the last mrimg and then make a new
update from that?

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
Robert

https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/XPS-8500-Problems-with-F12-to-get-into-advanced-boot-options/td-p/4136471

I think you had a problem with a keyboard once before,
and it had something to do with the keyboard type.

PS/2 keyboards, should only be plugged in with the power off,
because the interface does not have pins of different length
for power sequencing. USB keyboards are much simpler in
that regard, as USB stuff can be freely plugged and unplugged.

Some keyboards have an "Fn" key which is used in
conjunction with the function key desired. If the F2 or F12
aren't working without pressing anything else, try
to depress and hold <Fn> while using a function key.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I gained access to the bios and the backup
is now running. However it still begs the
question why it didn't do this automatically?


Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/2/2022 9:31 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I gained access to the bios and the backup
is now running. However it still begs the
question why it didn't do this automatically?

Thanks,
Robert

No idea.

The Dell doesn't exactly have a standard BIOS,
when it comes to behaviors. It likes unused
ports to be turned off, and it is a
"RAID-ready" BIOS.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 02.12.22 15:31, Robert in CA wrote:

I gained access to the bios and the backup
is now running. However it still begs the
question why it didn't do this automatically?

Thanks,
Robert

All of my computers let me choose the boot order
in the bios.

If that order is HD0 FIRST, your cd will never boot.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

The update was successful

Here's my mrimg log:

https://postimg.cc/qhJGk2Dv

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I went into my BIOS again and the HD
is selected first and then the CD however
I don't see a way of changing the order
and I don't want to mess things up.

So could you please give me instructions
on how to change the boot order on the
8500?


Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/2/2022 3:53 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I went into my BIOS again and the HD
is selected first and then the CD however
I don't see a way of changing the order
and I don't want to mess things up.

So could you please give me instructions
on how to change the boot order on the
8500?

Thanks,
Robert

"Changing Boot Sequence for Future Boots

Enter system setup. See "Entering System Setup" on page 119.

Use the arrow keys to highlight the Boot menu option and press <Enter> to access the menu.

NOTE: Write down your current boot sequence in case you want to restore it.

Press the up- and down-arrow keys to move through the list of devices.

Press plus (+) or minus (–) to change the boot priority of the device.
"

*******

When the Optical drive is highlighted, press the (+) key and
move the optical drive to the top of the list.

*******

Page 126

F2 Setup, F12 Boot Options (F12=Popup Boot menu) (F2=Enter BIOS setup screen)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I restarted the computer and hit F2 to
enter System Setup and selected the
Boot tab. I tried highlighting and
clicking + or - to the CD/DVD ROM
Drives and also the 4th boot device
and nothing happened.

It says the previous procedure will be
restored on next boot. (126)

This is when I hit F12

https://postimg.cc/xqy6CcgW

Do I go into F12 and select Change Boot
Mode Setting? instead of F2?

This is when I hit F2

https://postimg.cc/YjqW60tc

However, as I said the + and - didn't seem
to work.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/2/2022 10:35 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I restarted the computer and hit F2 to
enter System Setup and selected the
Boot tab. I tried highlighting and
clicking + or - to the CD/DVD ROM
Drives and also the 4th boot device
and nothing happened.

It says the previous procedure will be
restored on next boot. (126)

This is when I hit F12

https://postimg.cc/xqy6CcgW

Do I go into F12 and select Change Boot
Mode Setting? instead of F2?

This is when I hit F2

https://postimg.cc/YjqW60tc

However, as I said the + and - didn't seem
to work.

Robert

F12 is for "temporary boot choices".
It allows selecting the optical drive, using that menu.

F2 is for permanent order changes. It allows you to assign
higher priority to removable media, so you can boot from
a floppy or from an optical disc, any time the removable
media tray associated with that has media in it.

The (-) key does not use the Shift key.

The (+) needs pressing + and Shift, as it's
the upper case of that key.

It should have worked. But it's a Dell BIOS though, right ?

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I'll try it again,...

I don't know what you mean by it's a Dell Bios ?

I don't know, I'm just following instructions.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I tied it again with the same results.
When exiting it asked if I wanted to
save change and exit, not save the
changes and exit or load the default
settings?

The BIOS isn't by Dell it's by
American Megatrends -Aptio Setup
Utility 2012

https://postimg.cc/dLV6VNXg

I right clicked on the CD/DVD ROM
drives and it gave me this.

https://postimg.cc/w7M5pyRp

when I hit enter it gave me this.

https://postimg.cc/Ny6m4RS1

Should I try loading the default settings?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/3/2022 3:39 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tied it again with the same results.
When exiting it asked if I wanted to
save change and exit, not save the
changes and exit or load the default
settings?

The BIOS isn't by Dell it's by
American Megatrends -Aptio Setup
Utility 2012

https://postimg.cc/dLV6VNXg

I right clicked on the CD/DVD ROM
drives and it gave me this.

https://postimg.cc/w7M5pyRp

when I hit enter it gave me this.

https://postimg.cc/Ny6m4RS1

Should I try loading the default settings?

Robert

You should have been doing this, only at this screen level.

https://postimg.cc/dLV6VNXg

1st Boot Device Internal HDD
2nd Boot Device USB Storage
3rd Boot Device Internal ODD <=== place cursor on this row, press (+)
4th Boot Device USB Floppy Device
5th Boot Device Onboard NIC (NetBoot)

It should look like this, after the first (+)

1st Boot Device Internal HDD
2nd Boot Device Internal ODD <=== press (+) again
3rd Boot Device USB Storage
4th Boot Device USB Floppy Device
5th Boot Device Onboard NIC (NetBoot)

After the second (+), it looks like this.

1st Boot Device Internal ODD <=== now it is at the top
2nd Boot Device Internal HDD
3rd Boot Device USB Storage
4th Boot Device USB Floppy Device
5th Boot Device Onboard NIC (NetBoot)

Save changes and Exit.

While you are there, you can change the order as you want it.
Lifting other entries that should have priority. Or, selecting
an entry with the cursor and pressing (-) to make it lower
in the list.

It's a list editor.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I already pressed + on all of them including
the Internal ODD and nothing happened.

I tried again and it's still the same. I can use
the arrow keys to highlight them but the + and
- don't have any effect. I also tried the ones on
the number pad and they didn't work either.

I agree, it should work, how else am I suppose
to change the boot order but it isn't responding.

Here's the exit page

https://postimg.cc/d775GGks

do you think I should try and load the default
settings?


Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/3/2022 7:18 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I already pressed + on all of them including
the Internal ODD and nothing happened.

I tried again and it's still the same. I can use
the arrow keys to highlight them but the + and
- don't have any effect. I also tried the ones on
the number pad and they didn't work either.

I agree, it should work, how else am I suppose
to change the boot order but it isn't responding.

Here's the exit page

https://postimg.cc/d775GGks

do you think I should try and load the default
settings?

Robert

I don't recommend "Load Defaults", unless you have
a good knowledge of what things you have set to
non-standard values.

The Dell BIOS requires you to "enable" the SATA ports
that have devices connected, whereas most BIOS allow
just turning on all the SATA ports and using them as
you wish. The machine I'm typing on has six SATA ports,
all six ports are turned on, but only one port is being
used. And the machine is OK with that.

If you have a keyboard with a numeric keypad, the
keypad has a (+) and (-) key, as well as the main
section of keyboard having (+) and (-) in the
numbers row. You can play with the numeric keypad,
if you have an extended keyboard, and see if that works.

I'd prefer you got this working :-) It's a necessary
part of using the machine, and it should work.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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You think I should try one of my older keyboards and
see it it responds ?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I also would prefer to get it working correctly.

I have a Microsoft ergonomic 4000 V 1.0 keyboard
and I did play with the + or - on the keypad but
no response from there either.

Yet the keys work as there should as far as + or - so
they should work in the utility program because I
can use the arrow keys in the same keypad to scroll
up or down.

I sure have my share of the weirdest off the wall problems.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/3/2022 9:33 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

You think I should try one of my older keyboards and
see it it responds ?

Robert

Yes.

If the keyboard is a PS/2, follow the rules and
shut down the computer before connecting the cable.

The PS/2 connector is not hot-plug compatible.

All the pins are the same length, and if the wrong
pins touch first, when it is powered, there could
be damage to the interface. If you look at SATA
pins some time, you can see they're different length.
I think USB has different length contacts too, for
that same reason - to be hot-plug compatible.

If you plug in the PS/2 enough times without
following the rules, eventually it will stop working.

You can have two keyboards connected permanently if
you want. The test machine has two keyboards. At
one time, the test machine had three mice, and Windows
was doing a poor job of detecting all of them.
Sometimes only two of three mice would show up.
The serial (RS232) mouse, always seemed to be detected :-)

If you leave two keyboards connected, try to arrange
the "seldom used" one, so it does not get too much
dust and dirt heaped on it. Placing the keyboard
behind the exhaust fan on the PC, would be a mistake (dust).
Resting the keyboard on the floor, while inviting,
is also asking for trouble (you could walk on it).

This is probably why the second keyboard gets
unplugged and put away, because it becomes a nuisance.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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I tried using a generic ergonomic keyboard, then the 780 keyboard
which is also a Microsoft 4000 but with the same results. I then
searched around and found my only non-ergonomic generic keyboard
which has a USB connection. I think this is the one we used when
we had a keyboard problem before but it did the same thing.

I get to the boot utility screen and can scroll down but the + and -
didn't work as with the other keyboards. I think we can rule out the
keyboards as being the problem .

https://postimg.cc/hhdNJBnN

Do you think by BIOS is corrupted somehow so I can't change
the boot order?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/4/2022 3:41 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I tried using a generic ergonomic keyboard, then the 780 keyboard
which is also a Microsoft 4000 but with the same results. I then
searched around and found my only non-ergonomic generic keyboard
which has a USB connection. I think this is the one we used when
we had a keyboard problem before but it did the same thing.

I get to the boot utility screen and can scroll down but the + and -
didn't work as with the other keyboards. I think we can rule out the keyboards as being the problem .

https://postimg.cc/hhdNJBnN

Do you think by BIOS is corrupted somehow so I can't change
the boot order?

Robert

The "corresponding type menu" is the section just below.

Hard Disk Drives

CD/DVD ROM Drives

Enter in there and see if the two devices in question
are enabled or not.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

It seems both are disabled.

https://postimg.cc/F7TMwDHh

https://postimg.cc/PCcB5JDc

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

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--
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/12/2022 23:17, Robert in CA
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:8cdba1e0-b92c-40b2-8fe2-3d46950e609fn@googlegroups.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">It seems both are disabled.

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://postimg.cc/F7TMwDHh">https://postimg.cc/F7TMwDHh</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://postimg.cc/PCcB5JDc">https://postimg.cc/PCcB5JDc</a>

Robert

</pre>
</blockquote>
It looks like you are using the wrong function key. To access the
Dell's Boot Utility you need to press F2 (NOT F12 like in other
machines) for setup of boot sequence. I have Optiplex machine and I
just checked it which has the same BIOS as you have.<br>
<br>
When you are in the BIOS, the setup for boot sequence is in the <u><b>First</b></u>
batch of items and it is appropriately labelled Boot Sequence. When
you click on it, on the right side you will see all the available
drives on the machine and make sure all of the them are enabled.
Then you can click on the Arrows to move them up or down. There are
two arrows. First select the drive you want to move upwards then
click on the up-arrow icon to move it upwards. It is quite easy and
very intuitive for most people. even my 10 year old cousin and
understand it. Let me know if you need more pictures.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://i.imgur.com/CiMqTfi.png"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" src="https://i.imgur.com/CiMqTfi.png"
alt="[img attached]" width="1060" height="825" border="2"></a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="top">Arrest</div>
<div class="bottom">Dictator Putin</div>
<br>
<div class="top">We Stand</div>
<div class="bottom">With Ukraine</div>
<br>
<div class="top border1">Stop Putin</div>
<div class="bottom border">Ukraine Under Attack</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<q>We do not live to ourselves and we do not die to ourselves; if
we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord.</q>
<br>
<br>
<q>So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's.</q>
<br>
<br>
<q> Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the
end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning</q></div>
</body>
</html>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Your images are not the same as the
8500. I have a completely different setup.


Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/4/2022 6:17 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

It seems both are disabled.

https://postimg.cc/F7TMwDHh

https://postimg.cc/PCcB5JDc

Robert

Does using the cursor keys in there or hitting return do anything ?

Would that control be a toggle ?

*******

I have a thread on-screen here, that has more than one XPS8500
issue, but I don't know if that aligns with your machine. When
there are pictures of the Boot section with brackets showing,
nobody reacts at all. This thread does have the usual "problem
is caused by the keyboard used" issues, but again, a different
set of symptoms than yours.

https://www.dell.com/community/Desktops-General-Read-Only/New-Dell-XPS-8500-won-t-boot/td-p/3964239/page/5

As far as I know, there is more than one model year of XPS8500.
Some of these machines in the thread, seem to have a Samsung 32GB cache,
which could either be the older compact flash style, or the newer
SATA style. Such caches are not a good idea, because they rely
on the Intel RST driver, and if the cache is cooked, it affects
the disk data. (Hopefully, restoring from a backup still works
in that case, once the "mode" of everything is straightened out.)

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I was going to say maybe I should login
to my Administrators Account but then
realized it would be useless then I saw
Aptio has a Admin and User account.

I've never used either but do you think
I should create a Admin Account and
then try it?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

There's no cursor in the utility screen.

I'm able to move around using the arrow
keys and when I hit enter I get to this screen

https://postimg.cc/FkpQgCg8

I have to hit Esc to leave it. I tried + and -
but with no effect.

I don't understand why its not working?

Here's all the tabs, maybe it will show something?

https://postimg.cc/svGcWGj9 - Main

https://postimg.cc/bZNwMkZ1 -Advanced

https://postimg.cc/sBbfvLwJ - Boot

https://postimg.cc/QVQNd05p - Power

https://postimg.cc/YvsMsVKw - Security

https://postimg.cc/HJ8dD2d8 - Exit

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

You know, on second thought I'm not so sure I
want to mess with Aptio Admin Account. I could
easily mess up my BIOS so it doesn't work at all.


Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/4/2022 10:30 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

There's no cursor in the utility screen.

I'm able to move around using the arrow
keys and when I hit enter I get to this screen

https://postimg.cc/FkpQgCg8

I have to hit Esc to leave it. I tried + and -
but with no effect.

I don't understand why its not working?

Here's all the tabs, maybe it will show something?

https://postimg.cc/svGcWGj9 - Main

https://postimg.cc/bZNwMkZ1 -Advanced

https://postimg.cc/sBbfvLwJ - Boot

https://postimg.cc/QVQNd05p - Power

https://postimg.cc/YvsMsVKw - Security

https://postimg.cc/HJ8dD2d8 - Exit

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/4/2022 11:01 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

You know, on second thought I'm not so sure I
want to mess with Aptio Admin Account. I could
easily mess up my BIOS so it doesn't work at all.

Robert

Correct.

The purpose of accounts at BIOS level is to *lock you out of the BIOS*.

These are security features for usage in a business environment
or an environment with a lot of people circulating around.
Setting a password at that level, is to keep people out of
the machine.

:-)

There is no notion of "elevation" in the BIOS because
these are no applications in there. It's a modular
single executable that is operating in God mode. It has
access to all the hardware. If there is any memory
mapping going on in there, it would be a linear map
with giant pages.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/4/2022 10:30 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

There's no cursor in the utility screen.

I'm able to move around using the arrow
keys and when I hit enter I get to this screen

https://postimg.cc/FkpQgCg8

I have to hit Esc to leave it. I tried + and -
but with no effect.

I don't understand why its not working?

Here's all the tabs, maybe it will show something?

https://postimg.cc/svGcWGj9 - Main

https://postimg.cc/bZNwMkZ1 -Advanced

https://postimg.cc/sBbfvLwJ - Boot

https://postimg.cc/QVQNd05p - Power

https://postimg.cc/YvsMsVKw - Security

https://postimg.cc/HJ8dD2d8 - Exit

Robert

They claim a root cause here, is the cabling is loose on the
drives. But that can't be it, since the identity string is
correct for your HDD and ODD. Your HDD and ODD are plugged in.

https://www.minitool.com/backup-tips/aptio-setup-utility.html

It could be a low CMOS battery. But I think you changed that
recently.

It will do this, if it does not detect an OS. Or rather,
attempts to boot are failing. This could also include
a mismatch between the need for Secure boot and the OS installation,
and your Windows 7 is most likely to be in legacy mode with
no Secure Boot.

*******

If you do "Load Setup Defaults", you are going
to have to enter the BIOS afterwards, and verify that the
two SATA ports you are using, are turned on. As far
as I know, the XPS8500 has been in RAID mode the
entire time, and not AHCI. It is in RAID mode
because Dell wanted it to be "RAID Ready".
And since Dell likes that mode, that mode is the
default mode when the settings are reset. You
should not have to change that.

You are unlikely to be using Secure boot.

You can take camera photos of the BIOS screens, for
reference later, after you do a Load Setup Defaults.
This will allow you to refresh your memory, when visiting
the screens and correcting stuff. I realize that's a lot
of work, but it is faster than writing the settings down :-)

You can view the camera pictures on the Optiplex 780, while
you are getting the XPS8500 back in shape.

With a Digital Multimeter (DMM), you can check the CMOS battery
voltage with respect to the metal chassis. It should read about
3.0 volts if it still has many months of life in it. At around
2.2V to 2.3V, things may become flaky. And the descent from
say 2.8V down to 2.2V might take a month or two.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I just realized since I don't have two optical drives I
would have to copy my Rescue CD onto a flash stick
and then make copies from that correct?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I did change the battery but can't remember exactly when?
I don't have a digital voltmeter to check the battery. It's easier
just to replace it if you think I should. I have a spare battery
from when I replaced it before or should I buy a new battery?
How long do they last?

I'd rather not load the defaults because as you say we don't
know what they are and there's no guarantee that the + and
- will work after. It might make things worst.

Actually, I can't use the 780 to load images because it doesn't
have the port for the flash card only USB ports. Only the 8500
has multiple ports for different flash card sizes.

I guess I'll just play it safe and add hitting F12 to the backup
routine to load the Rescue CD for the 8500 but it's strange
how it changed from last month to booting from the CD to
not booting from it.

In passing, I noticed I only have (1) V7.2 Rescue CD. I have
V8's but can I make copies of the V7.2 CD so I have more?

Do I use Imgburn? Could you please give me instructions?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I seem to remember that I had computer problems
after I changed the battery last time . What exactly
happens when the battery is changed?

I don't want to mess things up if I can help it and I don't
want to do this for the sake of the boot menu, its not
worth it. However, if you think my battery is going then
I need instructions on how to recover after I replace it.


Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/4/2022 11:24 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

I seem to remember that I had computer problems
after I changed the battery last time . What exactly
happens when the battery is changed?

I don't want to mess things up if I can help it and I don't
want to do this for the sake of the boot menu, its not
worth it. However, if you think my battery is going then
I need instructions on how to recover after I replace it.

1) Make sure the "BIOS" clock is set to something sane.

2) Review the rest of the "BIOS" settings and set anything you don't
understand to "AUTO".

3) Try to boot again.

There's more but these are a minimum set of things to check/do after
changing the BIOS battery.
--
Jeff Barnett

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/5/2022 1:24 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

I seem to remember that I had computer problems
after I changed the battery last time . What exactly
happens when the battery is changed?

I don't want to mess things up if I can help it and I don't
want to do this for the sake of the boot menu, its not
worth it. However, if you think my battery is going then
I need instructions on how to recover after I replace it.

Thanks,
Robert

I don't think your battery is going, because I don't
think it has been long enough.

You change the CR2032 battery, with the power off (unplugged).
If the power in the battery socket were to drain down
to zero volts, the CMOS memory (256 locations or so)
is lost. The machine notices this, by computing the checksum,
and it will "Load Defaults" if it sees corruption like that.

When the machine comes back on later, the possible outcomes are:

1) Settings not lost at all. No action taken.

2) Settings lost, replaced by "Load Defaults".

3) Settings corrupted, checksum (it's a weak checksum)
reads as correct, BIOS is messed up to some extent.

If you could get into the BIOS in case (3), you
could still do "Load Defaults".

*******

To copy a data CD, you can use Imgburn.

Create Image File from disc [the disc you want to copy]

Write Image File to disc [the new disc receiving the image]

You have to define where the temporary file will be stored,
while you rip the CD in the first step. The temporary file
contains the information from the CD.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Wow,,,, it looks bad if I change the battery but as you say
I shouldn't have to at this point but from your descriptions
I think to some extent 2 or 3 happened when I changed it
previously and you helped me through it to get it back
running.

How will I know when I do need to change the
battery again ? When I notice a lag in performance ?

It's still weird how the boot order flipped on it's own within
a month without me doing anything.

Could I use a flash stick to store the file? or should I create
folder for it? Would Imgburn see the folder or flash stick?
Is there any other settings I need to know?

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I created (3) Rescue CD's V7.2, 64 bit and used the
Patriot flash stick.

However the first time I created an image file I
didn't think and it went into My Documents.
instead of the flash stick.

Well, it will give me another source for the Rescue CD
in case I ever need to make more copies.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/5/2022 2:15 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Wow,,,, it looks bad if I change the battery but as you say
I shouldn't have to at this point but from your descriptions
I think to some extent 2 or 3 happened when I changed it
previously and you helped me through it to get it back
running.

How will I know when I do need to change the
battery again ? When I notice a lag in performance ?

It's still weird how the boot order flipped on it's own within
a month without me doing anything.

Could I use a flash stick to store the file? or should I create
folder for it? Would Imgburn see the folder or flash stick?
Is there any other settings I need to know?

Thanks,
Robert

I don't know how your boot order changed, unless the
machine has done a "Load Defaults" on its own.

And the threads I've read, about the position in
the boot order being locked, I'm no further ahead
on theories as to what the hell the BIOS is doing.

I don't think I have ever run into any descriptions
of other brands of BIOS, doing that. Locking things
on the user. What the hell is the point of locking
that order ?

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Maybe this wasn't the best BIOS to choose for
the 8500. Everything else is great and it's fast.

It reminds me of my car. A 1990 Toyota Corolla
SR5. The eng check light comes on and then
turns itself off all by itself after a period of time.

This has happened (4) times now and it come on
again for the 5th time. I'm just waiting to see how
long it takes to go off again.

The crazy part is the car drives fine. I already
spent about $1500 to get this resolved and still
it keeps coming back. In fact, right after I spent
$1250 to clean the engine it came back the next
day! I've already replaced the sensor probe as well.

I have no idea what this could be. I've never seen
a car do this.

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/5/2022 7:47 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Maybe this wasn't the best BIOS to choose for
the 8500. Everything else is great and it's fast.

It reminds me of my car. A 1990 Toyota Corolla
SR5. The eng check light comes on and then
turns itself off all by itself after a period of time.

This has happened (4) times now and it come on
again for the 5th time. I'm just waiting to see how
long it takes to go off again.

The crazy part is the car drives fine. I already
spent about $1500 to get this resolved and still
it keeps coming back. In fact, right after I spent
$1250 to clean the engine it came back the next
day! I've already replaced the sensor probe as well.

I have no idea what this could be. I've never seen
a car do this.

Robert

A code scanner can give more info.

https://www.scangauge.com/products/scangauge-ii/

# In the diagnose section...

https://www.scangauge.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/SGII_Scantool.png

It can show temporary codes and permanent codes.
With a permanent code, you push the button on
the scanner and clear them. A permanent code
will come back, if the trouble is still present
the next day.

The connector for the scanner, is in the driver
area, like below and to the right of the steering wheel.
The connector is not pleasant to work with, and
requires contortions to get it to mate.

And mechanics know tricky ways to disable the
codes. Which is of course, not a clever thing
to do if something is actually broken. Somehow,
my mechanic disabled the intake manifold codes.

The Internet has lists of the codes.

The code scanner cannot access the entire car. It
cannot access airbag health for example. It can
access the OBDII codes. Very modern computerized
cars, the scanner is probably only looking at
about a quarter of the car content. The manufacturer
only shares the other details, with the dealership
scanner. The OBDII codes are still good enough
for your purposes, and there are lots of
different scanners available. Including ones
with Bluetooth, and readout on a SmartPhone.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Well, I've taken the car to the same guy for the last 17 years
and I assume he runs diagnostics on it which gives an error
code as you to what the problem is as you described with your
links.

Unfortunately, they tell me there's 76 error codes for the eng
check light. I hate idiot lights because they tell you nothing but
'something' must be causing this to come on but its so weird
that it turns itself off. I've never heard of anything doing that
which is why it reminded me of the computer switching the
boot sequence all on its own.

I also thought of disabling it but decided not to as I would
prefer to get it fixed. Thankfully it still drives well but I think
my mechanic is stumped on this one. However the diagnostics
should show what's wrong. I don't have airbags on the car,.. its
pretty basic.

I use to work on cars when I was younger but I was never
good with electrical items. I wouldn't know what the hell I
would be doing. This is way beyond my abilities and I have
enough on my plate as is. I don't want to be messing around
with something I know nothing about. I'm just glad the car
still drives OK although if it didn't then maybe that would
give them something to worth on but also more $$$.

I do have to take it back in because the wiper's don't squirt
water although the wipers work fine (I already tried cleaning
them out). So when I take it in I'll show him the log I've kept
on the eng check light coming on/off multiple times and maybe
that will help him to figure it out?

ManyThanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/6/2022 2:59 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Well, I've taken the car to the same guy for the last 17 years
and I assume he runs diagnostics on it which gives an error
code as you to what the problem is as you described with your
links.

Unfortunately, they tell me there's 76 error codes for the eng
check light. I hate idiot lights because they tell you nothing but 'something' must be causing this to come on but its so weird
that it turns itself off. I've never heard of anything doing that
which is why it reminded me of the computer switching the
boot sequence all on its own.

I also thought of disabling it but decided not to as I would
prefer to get it fixed. Thankfully it still drives well but I think
my mechanic is stumped on this one. However the diagnostics
should show what's wrong. I don't have airbags on the car,.. its
pretty basic.

I use to work on cars when I was younger but I was never
good with electrical items. I wouldn't know what the hell I
would be doing. This is way beyond my abilities and I have
enough on my plate as is. I don't want to be messing around
with something I know nothing about. I'm just glad the car
still drives OK although if it didn't then maybe that would
give them something to worth on but also more $$$.

I do have to take it back in because the wiper's don't squirt
water although the wipers work fine (I already tried cleaning
them out). So when I take it in I'll show him the log I've kept
on the eng check light coming on/off multiple times and maybe
that will help him to figure it out?

ManyThanks,
Robert

A temporary code is one which is "pending" as the
car continues to check the condition.

You can see a temporary code in a scanner.

An example of a permanent or "latched" one,
is the "emissions class" "gas cap loose". If the
gas tank is not under vacuum pressure (the vacuum
boost on the car provides vacuum) which pulls gasoline
vapor through the charcoal canister, the car logs
that as a fault. You can clear that on most scanners,
by pushing a "clear" button to remove the code. If
the gas cap is loose the next day, the code comes back.

I would guess your "light that does not stay", is
a pending code.

Check and make sure you have coolant in the rad reservoir,
and that the oil isn't too low. I had an oil leak once,
that was caused by the wrong washer type being used on
the oil pan. The metal must match (oil pan metal versus
metal washer on oil pan screw). The washer on mine,
someone fitted a new washer, it was the wrong metal,
it corroded until it started to leak.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hmmmmm you would think the auto repair shop
would know all of this and be able to pin point it.

I try and keep the car maintenance and change the
oil (4) times a year with oil filter. In fact I just
changed it a day or so ago.

I just checked the reservoir, it's empty. So will fill
it tomorrow. They did replace the radiator cap but
maybe they forgot the coolant but the car's temp
gauge is normal?

Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/6/2022 6:55 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Hmmmmm you would think the auto repair shop
would know all of this and be able to pin point it.

I try and keep the car maintenance and change the
oil (4) times a year with oil filter. In fact I just
changed it a day or so ago.

I just checked the reservoir, it's empty. So will fill
it tomorrow. They did replace the radiator cap but
maybe they forgot the coolant but the car's temp
gauge is normal?

Robert

Be careful with coolant!

My car uses "special" coolant. I cannot go
to the hardware store and just buy liters of
the yellow stuff.

The car cheaped out by using steel plumbing for
coolant. To compensate for the poor material choice,
they use "buffered" coolant, which they claim is
buffered to pH 7 (that's neutral by the way, and
for a chemist, is next to impossible to do, to buffer
to exactly pH 7). If you pour roadside water into
the car, the car has to be taken in and flushed. Leaving
anything which is not the "magical liquid" in the car,
will cause eventual damage. These cars are not like the
old days, where you could just fill up with "pond water".

At a minimum, check the owners manual for warnings
about coolant.

*******

If the engine is cold, only then should you unscrew the
rad cap. If you look, the rad should be filled to the
top with the working fluid. Sometimes the reservoir is
empty, but the rad is still apparently full.

When the rad cools off, any air at the top if the rad,
contracts. The vacuum from that contraction, pulls
coolant from the reservoir. That means, as you drive,
the system can refill the rad on its own, using that
weak pumping system. Each "thermal cycle", keeps
the rad topped up for you, until the rad is sucking on
an empty reservoir.

If you've allowed the coolant to drop too low, wait
for the engine to cool off, then *carefully* add
coolant to the rad with a funnel. You do not want to
make a mess, because if coolant is leaking from the
car, you do not want to confuse the mechanic by splashing
coolant all over everything. Otherwise, I'd just tell
you to make a mess :-) It's because we don't want to hide
the real leak, by splashing shit all over the place, that
is why you slowly fill it.

If the rad is full, you push down on the rad cap and rotate
90 degrees or so, to latch it. Then go over to the reservoir
and fill that up. You fill it to the *line*, not to the top.
Wait for daylight hours to do this. You cannot easily
see the line in low light. Some slack must be left in the
reservoir, in case the rad vents fluid back into the
reservoir. If you filled the reservoir full, liquid might
come out of the top and splash downwards on things.

Some cooling systems, leave plumbing down at
wheel level, and it is those pipes that rust or corrode
and leak.

For one cooling leak on my car, the engine had to be disassembled,
and all the stuff on top of the engine removed. That took
about two or three days, for someone in the shop to do that,
until they found the leaking steel pipe.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/7/2022 12:25 AM, Robert in CA wrote:

Man, coolant systems can be a big pain in the ass! and
costly $$$$$.

I was going to top up the reservoir tomorrow when I
realized that they probably changed my antifreeze
and I have a different type and it's not a good idea to
mix them.
I also would rather not have to change the anti-freeze
to do this so maybe I can just add some distilled water
to the reservoir instead? That shouldn't harm anything
even if it's a 50/50 pre-mixture. What do you think?

I still have to check the manual but I would be more in
favor of buying a pre-mixed antifreeze/water when I
do change the anti-freeze.

Thanks,
Robert

Distilled water should be safe.

For the exotic coolant, it would not be a
good idea for only distilled water to be
in there (like if the rad was completely empty).

Loading the proper premix should be fine.

I have two containers of the proper premix in
the basement right now. Used up the third one.

Paul

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Man, coolant systems can be a big pain in the ass! and
costly $$$$$.

I was going to top up the reservoir tomorrow when I
realized that they probably changed my antifreeze
and I have a different type and it's not a good idea to
mix them.
I also would rather not have to change the anti-freeze
to do this so maybe I can just add some distilled water
to the reservoir instead? That shouldn't harm anything
even if it's a 50/50 pre-mixture. What do you think?

I still have to check the manual but I would be more in
favor of buying a pre-mixed antifreeze/water when I
do change the anti-freeze.

Thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

I haven't done anything as yet.

The owners manual says to use ethylene- glycol
type coolant. So I'll get a 50/50 mixture of that.

I like Prestone but I still need to read the label
to make sure its ethylene- glycol based.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Prestone-All-Vehicles-10yr-300k-mi-Antifreeze-Coolant-1-Gal-Ready-to-Use/16879961?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2998&adid=2222222227716879961_117755028669_12420145346&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=
501107745824&wl4=pla-294505072980&wl5=9031515&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=16879961&wl13=2998&veh=sem_LIA&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkMGcBhCSARIsAIW6d0BDCVhJGJUfaFVdQeO8V65f5WBITPEwf9IBmYXgm0xbjHZzB3qBzrcaAv9zEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

In the meantime I have to weed the yard today and
afterward I'll go get some distilled water and add it
to the reservoir.

Thanks,
Robert

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The reservoir was empty so I flushed it out with
distilled water then added distilled water to the
reservoir to the halfway mark as they suggest in
the manual.

The eng check light didn't go out but maybe the
car needs to run awhile? In any case it's done.

I think asap I'll do a complete anti-freeze change
and flush out the system. I use to use a hose but of
course I can't do that now so maybe I'll drain it and
fill it with distilled water and run it and then drain
that and fill with the new antifreeze?

I watched these video's on how to do it properly but
I've never heard of turning on your heater/fan to let
the antifreeze through the entire system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyZDw7jOP0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIrGzYAHy24

I was surprised he wore gloves to keep clean but both didn't
use any funnels and was pretty sloppy. I still would prefer
to use the premixed version but both used the concentrate.

I believe my car has a 6.3 qt capacity.

So use radiator flush first with distilled water, then just
distilled water, then add the antifreeze? I noticed the both
used the concentrate versus the premixed.



Robert

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On 12/8/2022 3:24 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

The reservoir was empty so I flushed it out with
distilled water then added distilled water to the
reservoir to the halfway mark as they suggest in
the manual.

The eng check light didn't go out but maybe the
car needs to run awhile? In any case it's done.

I think asap I'll do a complete anti-freeze change
and flush out the system. I use to use a hose but of
course I can't do that now so maybe I'll drain it and
fill it with distilled water and run it and then drain
that and fill with the new antifreeze?

I watched these video's on how to do it properly but
I've never heard of turning on your heater/fan to let
the antifreeze through the entire system?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdyZDw7jOP0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIrGzYAHy24

I was surprised he wore gloves to keep clean but both didn't
use any funnels and was pretty sloppy. I still would prefer
to use the premixed version but both used the concentrate.

I believe my car has a 6.3 qt capacity.

So use radiator flush first with distilled water, then just
distilled water, then add the antifreeze? I noticed the both
used the concentrate versus the premixed.

Robert

There is some dead volume in the heater core, so
turning on the heat flushes whatever liquid is
in there.

https://toytechs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/automotive-cooling-system-image.jpg

There is also a thermostat in the loop. On some cars,
it is implemented as a wax plug. The wax melts when
the water gets warm enough and the water flow then
follows the entire flow circuit.

The purpose of the thermostat, is to keep the engine
heat in the engine, until the engine comes up to
temperature. Once the engine has an excess of heat,
the heat can be shared with things like the heater core
near the dash.

As for the best way to flush a system, I've never done
one before.

I think I did a power steering once, because
the power steering rad in the front of my previous car rusted
out, and I just bypassed it with a hose. (Not all cars have a
cooler for the power steering.) As near as I could
tell, the car didn't notice the difference. If you're doing
rally driving on a curvy road, the power steering fluid might
start to get hot, which is what that little rad was for.
But it rusted out and started to leak, and the car was too old
to be looking for a new rad. Fitting the bypass, some of the
fluid is lost, so I had to follow some procedure for recharging
it (turning the steering wheel side to side with the front end jacked
up a bit or something, flush the air bubbles out).

If you were in a really cold climate, I'd try to maintain the
approximate 50:50 antifreeze ratio. If your winters aren't that cold, if
there was a little extra distilled in the loop it probably would
not hurt (not quite 50:50 ratio). You want the antifreeze in there,
so the coolant does not freeze up on a cold night. The antifreeze
also extends the boiling point.

Whatever you do, don't run the engine without a cooling system.
A buddy at work did that and the engine seized. He went in the
house and left it running and wasn't tending it. A hose may have
split while he was in the house, and there was no liquid left.
If he'd been outside, he might have caught it in time.

Paul

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I checked the antifreeze and it all looked
normal so I'll leave everything as is for now.
'If it isn't broke don't fix it' As far as weather
it doesn't get that cold here usually but I'll be
sure to make sure I always have coolant in the
system and reservoir. Thanks.,

WOW! sorry about your buddys engine seizing.
That must have sucked.

I remember thermostats on the older cars that
got stuck and you could blow an engine because
it overheated. It was safer to just remove them
although then the heater didn't work but that was
OK.

Flushing your steering sounds allot like pumping
the air out of the line when you do brakes.

I want to thank you for all your good help
and great links on the computer and the
coolant for my car. I never would of thought
of adding distilled water to the reservoir
or turning on the heater or fan.

Also in passing I haven't had any mice since
you gave advice about the steel wool and
closed off all the entry's. I used flypaper
and captured (7) mice total. Haven't seen
any since.

Many thanks,
Robert

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Pada Jumat, 09 Desember 2022 pukul 12.27.54 UTC+7, Robert in CA menulis:

I checked the antifreeze and it all looked
normal so I'll leave everything as is for now.
'If it isn't broke don't fix it' As far as weather
it doesn't get that cold here usually but I'll be
sure to make sure I always have coolant in the
system and reservoir. Thanks.,

WOW! sorry about your buddys engine seizing.
That must have sucked.

I remember thermostats on the older cars that
got stuck and you could blow an engine because
it overheated. It was safer to just remove them
although then the heater didn't work but that was
OK.

Flushing your steering sounds allot like pumping
the air out of the line when you do brakes.

I want to thank you for all your good help
and great links on the computer and the
coolant for my car. I never would of thought
of adding distilled water to the reservoir
or turning on the heater or fan.

Also in passing I haven't had any mice since
you gave advice about the steel wool and
closed off all the entry's. I used flypaper
and captured (7) mice total. Haven't seen
any since.

Many thanks,
Robert

Cek tutorial di https://www.mayuf.id

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Just thought I would let you know the the car engine check light
went off. I hope adding the distilled water in the reservoir helped
and it stays off.

Thanks again,
Robert

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On 12/16/2022 6:17 PM, Robert in CA wrote:

Just thought I would let you know the the car engine check light
went off. I hope adding the distilled water in the reservoir helped
and it stays off.

Thanks again,
Robert

You may still want to keep an eye on it.

Some amount of evaporation occurs naturally.

You may need to adjust the reservoir level
about once a year.

What you want to catch, is if the loss rate
indicates it is leaking.

One of the indicators something is up, is in a
cold climate, you notice the engine is taking
a lot longer to heat up. Mine has an aluminum
block, and normally the needle would come off the peg, by the
time I got to the first major street light.

When you see it take double the time to heat up,
the reservoir in that case is likely to be dry.
And you could even overheat the engine.

You can also get symptoms like that, if there is
sludge in the system and a part of the radiator is
blocked.

Paul

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I'll be sure to keep an eye on it; I just checked it
recently. So hopefully the light will stay off now.

Thanks,
Robert

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