On Montag, 20. Februar 2017 22:47:17 CET Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

Hey all,

1) Putting printer drivers into "net-print" is silly.

Something that converts format a to device-specific format b has absolutely nothing to do with network.
So, a new category "sys-print", emphasizing that it's hardware drivers, (or "cups-drv"?) (or maybe "media-print"?) might make sense.

2) After introducing that, however, "net-print" becomes nearly empty.

On a quick glance, the only *network*-specific packages in there are cups
and lprng. Maybe one or two more which I dont recognize.

So move cups and lprng to "net-misc" and drop "net-print"?
Or move them to new "sys-print" as well?

What do you think?

Cheers,
Andreas

I would like to resume this discussion on the occasion of a new [shameless plug] package PAPPL that is to be packaged, see also [1], from the point
before discussion went off on an X-Y categories tangent.

Here's a list of suggestions made for a new category so far, ordered from (seemingly) best- to least-liked:

media-print
sys-print
app-print(ing)


I agree net-print should not remain after such a move.


[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/829351
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQGTBAABCgB9FiEEexlipVqzuLtTjHMOREsPlv/SLMsFAmG8igBfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDdC MTk2MkE1NUFCM0I4QkI1MzhDNzMwRTQ0NEIwRjk2RkZEMjJDQ0IACgkQREsPlv/S LMsWFAf+ID+yuR203ZZfXcr0pMIgQTyGTTMQOHk/my8v4NUXnYYkReEno1v7ilTM 9stLyp2vJ2VBLmWQJM87hR90yXR7tx5gdEtgd1CZoQNZxX5Wm4ZWlRcKrvYG3vDe LcdULt/EgKtRWf2ulauMiBcCyBwzra7ZTxUdyuCsfwgQL8dFmIyBlK2vYPRbp2kU yUYzsBv7RC3vF6TQ8iS9TLtQpiS00MTfOXZf8p3Ccu90eGmFRCla+MjQkm3xVcS1 lWw8hE1dB0j+tHEeIqYEfh10HJSYjvQd02k1DKNN2NJrpf9l5Q1rX2Ucwx5ZRp6J EKAoesscEmuViV6uNoIyse5YmT487w==
=B4Bl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:00:48 +0100 Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:

On Montag, 20. Februar 2017 22:47:17 CET Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

Hey all,

1) Putting printer drivers into "net-print" is silly.

Something that converts format a to device-specific format b has absolutely nothing to do with network.
So, a new category "sys-print", emphasizing that it's hardware drivers, (or "cups-drv"?) (or maybe "media-print"?) might make sense.

2) After introducing that, however, "net-print" becomes nearly empty.

On a quick glance, the only *network*-specific packages in there are cups and lprng. Maybe one or two more which I dont recognize.

So move cups and lprng to "net-misc" and drop "net-print"?
Or move them to new "sys-print" as well?

What do you think?

Cheers,
Andreas

I would like to resume this discussion on the occasion of a new [shameless plug] package PAPPL that is to be packaged, see also [1], from the point before discussion went off on an X-Y categories tangent.

Here's a list of suggestions made for a new category so far, ordered from (seemingly) best- to least-liked:

media-print
sys-print
app-print(ing)

IMHO sys-print is the best variant, since printing often requires
system privileges to set it up or change lots of settings.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE63ZIHsdeM+1XgNer9lNaM7oe5I0FAmG8wTkACgkQ9lNaM7oe 5I1oDw//cwyJf89P+sYq/rh8N9Z9v6SwIZgUpWaMZxmm4RxYr23EOlYuJZ0h35sd 50HGrxRMuMPty8O86/n2lkTOIutu8mImkUOyS1MPIG6aVTYkr0UUZJf2vPcb1kV4 iZhOm5SO4/aShy5Gs6SoyECSxIiqTNwWa3VpENU6YS8Rx3sUGdFRdlLEB3xRaf8r mBk4HPAhYBt/DWLjQX8SeusbXc5ggC0fEmMQ+Rd1uyT8AbID5SIYEAOYrS6vCQqT NHn+Kwwdl+nvhOZ/qESr/v6lRqtW2hzqueWUavGYGurEltrgziFFOVRNMa1ex32/ cQUYfLltm+mKOka8Jchjaz5m+RkhdVsD23ayUouG9bmLJhXYrRDGRIpN0APn9ScZ P1p0C1xCdZ6tLB4cX5eJvQYX9TdOzZ2KJRpTKrq6qo5pAEftweCvhtr8REqb9UxR M1dRRsUcw4gDBzZs4QZ9X6MrhHwv0h/6kdLMO8V/9IdJ5qXbJeqLYJOWXJ6YlLx+ iN0gq3Pis4MqMDfdYCHOxbg0apTR24dd717gJVWSN9isUMO0aIxsMsSqOGGxQDr2 ItAc1al4OPZ2Apa7Rb+FzMTv4QuX3lT7RvnkwsV167CrQH9MT+2S7XWSk7FkutZt KdnpJr2m2q49++uukX8NWyCSpM5i25n2HdKbbuqTStYU3NHYkr4=
=tnfd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:

On Montag, 20. Februar 2017 22:47:17 CET Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

1) Putting printer drivers into "net-print" is silly.

Something that converts format a to device-specific format b has absolutely >> nothing to do with network.
So, a new category "sys-print", emphasizing that it's hardware drivers, (or >> "cups-drv"?) (or maybe "media-print"?) might make sense.

2) After introducing that, however, "net-print" becomes nearly empty.

On a quick glance, the only *network*-specific packages in there are cups
and lprng. Maybe one or two more which I dont recognize.

Historically these were the first two packages in the net-print
category. Looks like it has grown from there, with later packages not
really fitting the category's definition.

So move cups and lprng to "net-misc" and drop "net-print"?
Or move them to new "sys-print" as well?

What do you think?

I would like to resume this discussion on the occasion of a new [shameless plug] package PAPPL that is to be packaged, see also [1], from the point before discussion went off on an X-Y categories tangent.

Here's a list of suggestions made for a new category so far, ordered from (seemingly) best- to least-liked:

media-print
sys-print
app-print(ing)

media-print sounds good. media-gfx would be another possibility.
Scanning software like sane is already there.

Or we could find an umbrella term for printing and scanning, and move
both to that category.

I agree net-print should not remain after such a move.

+1

[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/829351

--=-=-Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQFDBAEBCAAtFiEEtDnZ1O9xIP68rzDbUYgzUIhBXi4FAmG8wRkPHHVsbUBnZW50 b28ub3JnAAoJEFGIM1CIQV4uwwYIAIPwRVEcTXoKBslOs9NzKCkb4I2Maar/pspY EQUrYciCtptQged2bUNC2jnq38sF5uLDtEAAeB/MS78gQxQn+q3IMe+CkA/90f7t 37RUfDvJWsnStGIMPbJQBk+2toTVh/RkcjvkhUHxMHLKswl17gVSyEar1cY+wfM1 O2vZ3/7Rk0tKBFF5kc2P4wVX0cTzcxgiZSP4GTDkcdDznWvvQROZ+u874Hc3zdZd DW6sAkAKTWKnyElxmRwheZ0ldmmloCNfhZpnHbBj70xkYX85YGtfo+a9y/kmKOrX IjzCfC6riaKH7WNEu4ufrln5SXMVWUj26r5DOyvIJrxlPJZlvsA=KoDb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/17/2021 11:56, Andrew Savchenko wrote:

On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 14:00:48 +0100 Andreas Sturmlechner wrote:

On Montag, 20. Februar 2017 22:47:17 CET Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

Hey all,

1) Putting printer drivers into "net-print" is silly.

Something that converts format a to device-specific format b has absolutely >>> nothing to do with network.
So, a new category "sys-print", emphasizing that it's hardware drivers, (or >>> "cups-drv"?) (or maybe "media-print"?) might make sense.

2) After introducing that, however, "net-print" becomes nearly empty.

On a quick glance, the only *network*-specific packages in there are cups >>> and lprng. Maybe one or two more which I dont recognize.

So move cups and lprng to "net-misc" and drop "net-print"?
Or move them to new "sys-print" as well?

What do you think?

Cheers,
Andreas

I would like to resume this discussion on the occasion of a new [shameless >> plug] package PAPPL that is to be packaged, see also [1], from the point
before discussion went off on an X-Y categories tangent.

Here's a list of suggestions made for a new category so far, ordered from
(seemingly) best- to least-liked:

media-print
sys-print
app-print(ing)

IMHO sys-print is the best variant, since printing often requires
system privileges to set it up or change lots of settings.

Best regards,
Andrew Savchenko

Maybe consider three new top-level categories?:
- print-drivers
- print-filters
- print-misc


Breaking out what's in the current net-print:

print-drivers/
brlaser
cndrvcups-common-lb
cndrvcups-lb
cnrdrvcups-lb
cups-windows
dymo-cups-drivers
epson-inkjet-printer-escpr
foo2zjs
gutenprint
hplip
hplip-plugin
kyocera-1x2x-mfp-driver
pnm2ppa
splix

print-filters/
apsfilter
c2esp
cnijfilter2
cups-filters
kyocera-mita-ppds
lexmark-upd-ppd
foomatic-db
foomatic-db-engine
foomatic-db-ppds

print-misc/
cups
cups-bjnp
cups-pdf
cups-pk-helper
fax4cups
gtklp
ink
libinklevel
mtink
npadmin
poster
sshlpr

I haven't looked at any of the other existing categories and only sorted out net-print packages into these new proposed categories, but I think *most* printing stuff is going to fall into one of those three type of buckets. A fourth category, say print-scanning, may be able to be created specific to scanning stuff, since that kinda has its own side-ecosystem. If we
accumulate enough printing-related libraries, I guess print-libs may also
come into being (right now, I put libinklevel under print-misc since it's
the only lib* standout).

Idea behind a new top-level print-* group of categories is that printing is
a fairly large ecosystem, and lumping it all into something like media-print
or sys-print seems to miss the mark a bit. media-* seems more aligned to things like sound, video, and graphics (the digital kind), and less about
print media. sys-print implies the system-level connections that a printer has, and would be a good fit for all of the printer driver packages, but not
as good a fit for things like net-print/poster.

Also, the HOMEPAGE for foo2zjs is dead and up for sale. That needs to be changed to:
https://github.com/koenkooi/foo2zjs

--
Joshua Kinard
Gentoo/MIPS
kumba@gentoo.org
rsa6144/5C63F4E3F5C6C943 2015-04-27
177C 1972 1FB8 F254 BAD0 3E72 5C63 F4E3 F5C6 C943

"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And
our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between."

--Emperor Turhan, Centauri Republic

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Copy: kumba@gentoo.org (Joshua Kinard)

Maybe consider three new top-level categories?:
- print-drivers
- print-filters
- print-misc

Only if you take care of them. printing project is somewhat understaffed.

--
Andreas K. Hüttel
dilfridge@gentoo.org
Gentoo Linux developer
(council, toolchain, base-system, perl, libreoffice)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2

iQKTBAABCgB9FiEE6W4INB9YeKX6Qpi1TEn3nlTQogYFAmG+eolfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldEU5 NkUwODM0MUY1ODc4QTVGQTQyOThCNTRDNDlGNzlFNTREMEEyMDYACgkQTEn3nlTQ ogbUVw/+Oa2/k2/pSom1qj3DP3259iPKZfkyYWmQ88V69Kz5s+BdBjD6OTKMZK79 C7mEG9iJ2GBWb4IUMi+2xLtxhDy+SnX9+16qveLSqjX0GQZii4yRDDNUnnx92EXk nfMVNzXzmmld6e+8AnAOsyvS2BPI5qikySU/TNPeAH9nrL2eOovJUbHF6aeVekER FO6Ir3ZnMQmBb/EP++t+vCAyx2QvvSP5NEzsbwhP3oMoXsAgbwMoDgqhqYk2f41X YxLEhdILEi4DStx84R6Dsr1vllA7Ce0BNFCiyT3vsEEThVtag9chgrg+4ibefeiX 0oQANPy5KUFL5GpADehqYZgouQA9bnNaXTYqkwa1iaYkcxoEtJyQHLfeFFwznnMM NyR9jVHak3lRhOcWkqh2WkHx2GsSXAsAay4fIyOdCpaSplXOvB65DDWqyjkZbis9 S4MjHEKHsxkZk0Ordx0G4CYf+rfCppclSF6a6mgW5aWuuel0bsd/fjiRqeou4EVN E2TyFnyxPJiCzzlKixDElFGmylw7M6xUEj0iE1Gyr61FzX+C2yvsv6hsQY2mrD0q 1Cp36WZFri2F8m7EqhSutiRiPr8xsBJ/gW4DC9v8FUKyvy14bG8qJElL

On 12/18/2021 19:19, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

Maybe consider three new top-level categories?:
- print-drivers
- print-filters
- print-misc

Only if you take care of them. printing project is somewhat understaffed.

I wish I had the time, as well as the knowledge. I do have a networked HP color laserjet at home (got it for a steal; toner is silly expensive,
though), but I only ever use that printer with my Windows-based systems and have virtually avoided dealing with CUPS and all of its madness. I made my suggestion merely out of having an idea and wanting to contribute it to the other ideas submitted.

--
Joshua Kinard
Gentoo/MIPS
kumba@gentoo.org
rsa6144/5C63F4E3F5C6C943 2015-04-27
177C 1972 1FB8 F254 BAD0 3E72 5C63 F4E3 F5C6 C943

"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And
our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between."

--Emperor Turhan, Centauri Republic

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 18 Dec 2021, Joshua Kinard wrote:

Maybe consider three new top-level categories?:
- print-drivers
- print-filters
- print-misc

net-print is already a small category with only 35 packages, so IMHO
splitting it up into three tiny categories wouldn't make much sense.

Also, splitting cups components between different categories looks a
little artificial.

[...]

Idea behind a new top-level print-* group of categories is that printing is
a fairly large ecosystem, and lumping it all into something like media-print or sys-print seems to miss the mark a bit. media-* seems more aligned to things like sound, video, and graphics (the digital kind), and less about print media. sys-print implies the system-level connections that a printer has, and would be a good fit for all of the printer driver packages, but not as good a fit for things like net-print/poster.

Can we please keep things simple and just do a full category move [1]
from net-print to (e.g.) media-print?

Ulrich

[1] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/message/2479de62249646b84932ab2801914ccc

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)