• [gentoo-user] Local mail delivery agent (MDA) wanted

    From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 12 14:30:01 2021
    Hey list,

    I am looking for an as-simple-as-possible setup for local mail delivery.
    What I mean by that is: the mail shall go into /var/spool/mail locally,
    which is why I deem it overkill to set up and run a complicated smtpd
    daemon with its own config file language.

    At my previous employer we used mda on our Ubuntu-based machines, but this
    is not available in Gentoo. It did extactly what I am looking for: receive
    mail (most importantly from cron) via pipe and put it right into the spool file, so I can see a message upon login and read it with mutt. That’s all
    I need, so I can get summary reports of zfs snapshots, smartd messages and
    so on.

    I was looking through wiki articles, but they all employ the usual beasts postfix, courier and so on. Do you have any recommendations?

    Much obliged.

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    If nothing works anymore, read the manual already.

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  • From Alexey Mishustin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 12 15:30:02 2021
    Hello,

    вс, 12 дек. 2021 г. в 16:25, Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de>:

    At my previous employer we used mda on our Ubuntu-based machines, but this
    is not available in Gentoo. It did extactly what I am looking for...

    I have never used mailutils mda; I just noticed that there is a
    configuration option
    --disable-build-mda for mailutils [1] and thought, maybe, adding
    $(use_enable build-mda) \
    to the mailutils ebuild [2] will help to get mda in Gentoo.

    [1] - https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-gnu/2020-03/msg00007.html
    [2] - https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/net-mail/mailutils/mailutils-3.13.ebuild

    --
    Best regards,
    Alex

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  • From William Kenworthy@21:1/5 to Frank Steinmetzger on Mon Dec 13 00:40:02 2021
    I thought the gentoo default mail program is nullmailer? Changed from
    smtpd(? or something named similar) some time back.  Simple, reasonably versatile and has easy configuration.

    BillK


    On 12/12/21 21:25, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    Hey list,

    I am looking for an as-simple-as-possible setup for local mail delivery.
    What I mean by that is: the mail shall go into /var/spool/mail locally,
    which is why I deem it overkill to set up and run a complicated smtpd
    daemon with its own config file language.

    At my previous employer we used mda on our Ubuntu-based machines, but this
    is not available in Gentoo. It did extactly what I am looking for: receive mail (most importantly from cron) via pipe and put it right into the spool file, so I can see a message upon login and read it with mutt. That’s all
    I need, so I can get summary reports of zfs snapshots, smartd messages and
    so on.

    I was looking through wiki articles, but they all employ the usual beasts postfix, courier and so on. Do you have any recommendations?

    Much obliged.


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  • From Peter Humphrey@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 13 10:50:01 2021
    On Sunday, 12 December 2021 23:36:33 GMT William Kenworthy wrote:
    I thought the gentoo default mail program is nullmailer? Changed from
    smtpd(? or something named similar) some time back. Simple, reasonably versatile and has easy configuration.

    That's a sending program, not receiving.

    --
    Regards,
    Peter.

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  • From William Kenworthy@21:1/5 to Peter Humphrey on Mon Dec 13 11:10:02 2021
    True - missed that!

    BillK


    On 13/12/21 17:36, Peter Humphrey wrote:
    On Sunday, 12 December 2021 23:36:33 GMT William Kenworthy wrote:
    I thought the gentoo default mail program is nullmailer? Changed from
    smtpd(? or something named similar) some time back. Simple, reasonably
    versatile and has easy configuration.
    That's a sending program, not receiving.


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  • From tastytea@21:1/5 to Warp_7@gmx.de on Mon Dec 13 20:50:01 2021
    On 2021-12-12 14:25+0100 Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de> wrote:

    Hey list,

    I am looking for an as-simple-as-possible setup for local mail
    delivery. What I mean by that is: the mail shall go into
    /var/spool/mail locally, which is why I deem it overkill to set up
    and run a complicated smtpd daemon with its own config file language.

    mail-client/mailx provides /usr/bin/mail which can be used for looking
    at mail in /var/spool/mail/ and for sending it to local users. No
    configuration necessary. cron and other software will automatically use
    it.

    Kind regards, tastytea

    --
    Get my PGP key with `gpg --locate-keys tastytea@tastytea.de` or at <https://tastytea.de/tastytea.asc>.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to tastytea on Mon Dec 13 21:20:02 2021
    On 12/13/21 12:40 PM, tastytea wrote:
    mail-client/mailx provides /usr/bin/mail which can be used for looking
    at mail in/var/spool/mail/ and for sending it to local users. No configuration necessary. cron and other software will automatically
    use it.

    For some reason I thought that mailx (and / or nail) relied on a local
    MTA+LDA. Even if it's only listening on 127.1. -- I guess I'm wrong.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 13 22:50:01 2021
    Am Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 08:40:05PM +0100 schrieb tastytea:
    On 2021-12-12 14:25+0100 Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de> wrote:

    Hey list,

    I am looking for an as-simple-as-possible setup for local mail
    delivery. What I mean by that is: the mail shall go into
    /var/spool/mail locally, which is why I deem it overkill to set up
    and run a complicated smtpd daemon with its own config file language.

    mail-client/mailx provides /usr/bin/mail which can be used for looking
    at mail in /var/spool/mail/ and for sending it to local users. No configuration necessary. cron and other software will automatically use
    it.

    OK, it looks promising -- very neatly small and tiny. But:

    lcars ~ # echo hello | mail root
    lcars ~ # mail
    No mail for root
    lcars ~ #

    Using strace, I found out that mail from mailx puts those mail into /var/spool/clientmqueue/, one file per mail, but not in a maildir structure.
    I had similar issues with mailutils’ mda. The ebuild installs no manpage and the package’s website simply points to debian.org. -_-

    In many places I read that system mail—by default—goes into /var/spool/mail/<user>, but until now I’ve yet to observe this behavior. It’s becoming a little frustrating by now. This is also not my first attempt at this; I tried this before in the past years but never reached the goal.

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    “Hodor.”

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 13 23:20:01 2021
    Am Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 10:34:08PM +0100 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:

    Using strace, I found out that mail from mailx puts those mail into /var/spool/clientmqueue/, one file per mail, but not in a maildir structure.

    OK, I found out that this is the usual outgoing queue which needs to be processed by sendmail, probably through another cronjob or a process that itself checks that directory periodically.

    In many places I read that system mail—by default—goes into /var/spool/mail/<user>, but until now I’ve yet to observe this behavior.

    It’s really not easy to find a description of the default setup of olden
    days (or I’m simply using the wrong search terms). Because when you search for something like unix local mail setup, most results are about setting up
    an SMTP server. In hindsight—perhaps that is simply the way to go. :-/

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    Petrol station attendand to customer:
    “Could you turn off that SUV for a mo’, or I’ll never get it full.”

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  • From tastytea@21:1/5 to Warp_7@gmx.de on Tue Dec 14 00:50:01 2021
    On 2021-12-13 23:12+0100 Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7@gmx.de> wrote:

    Am Mon, Dec 13, 2021 at 10:34:08PM +0100 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:

    Using strace, I found out that mail from mailx puts those mail into /var/spool/clientmqueue/, one file per mail, but not in a maildir structure.

    OK, I found out that this is the usual outgoing queue which needs to
    be processed by sendmail, probably through another cronjob or a
    process that itself checks that directory periodically.

    Hmm, I'm pretty sure this worked a few years ago. I just tested it on a
    system on which I didn't configure mail before. My mails ended up in /var/spool/nullmailer/queue. :-(

    In many places I read that system mail—by default—goes into /var/spool/mail/<user>, but until now I’ve yet to observe this
    behavior.

    It’s really not easy to find a description of the default setup of
    olden days (or I’m simply using the wrong search terms). Because when
    you search for something like unix local mail setup, most results are
    about setting up an SMTP server. In hindsight—perhaps that is simply
    the way to go. :-/

    A lot of packages depend on virtual/mta, including mailx. It seems you
    have no choice but to configure one of the MTAs virtual/mta depends on.

    --
    Get my PGP key with `gpg --locate-keys tastytea@tastytea.de` or at <https://tastytea.de/tastytea.asc>.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Frank Steinmetzger on Wed Dec 15 00:40:02 2021
    On 12/13/21 3:12 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    Using strace, I found out that mail from mailx puts those mail into
    /var/spool/clientmqueue/, one file per mail, but not in a maildir structure.

    Yes, the /var/spool/clientmqueue is the mail queue for outgoing messages
    from clients. Hence the name "client m(ail) queue".

    OK, I found out that this is the usual outgoing queue which needs to be processed by sendmail, probably through another cronjob or a process that itself checks that directory periodically.

    Sendmail is quintessentially a daemon that's running all the time. As
    such it usually does it's own scheduling and does not depend on external scheduling.

    In many places I read that system mail—by default—goes into
    /var/spool/mail/<user>, but until now I’ve yet to observe this behavior.

    /var/spool/mail/<user> and /var/mail/<user> are the quintessential
    locations for mbox based inbound email storage.

    Note: There are a number of other fancy client mail storage routines
    that don't use files in this path.

    It’s really not easy to find a description of the default setup of olden days (or I’m simply using the wrong search terms). Because when you search for something like unix local mail setup, most results are about setting up an SMTP server. In hindsight—perhaps that is simply the way to go. :-/
    You will quite likely need a Mail Transfer Agent to receive the email,
    either via command (mail(x) / sendmail / etc) or read from a queue
    location like /var/spool/clientmqueue and then deliver the messages to
    where they belong.

    There /may/ be an alternate "mail" command that does all of this in one function. But I'd be surprised to learn about such.

    Most of the surprise is because it would be combining three distinct
    parts of the email flow: the Mail User Agent (a.k.a. MUA) generating
    the original outgoing message, the Message Transfer Agent (a.k.a. MTA)
    to receive the original message and do something with it, and the Local Delivery Agent (a.k.a. LDA) to put the message in the proper location.

    The originating MUA can frequently be substituted at will with "mail",
    "mailx", and "nail" being three CLI based that come to mind immediately.

    The MTA can frequently be one of many with Sendmail, Postfix, Courier,
    Exim coming to mind.

    The LDA can easily be one of the following; procmail, maildrop, Courier,
    and something super simple I don't remember the name of because I've
    not used it in so long.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Ralph Seichter@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 15 04:30:01 2021
    * Frank Steinmetzger:

    I am looking for an as-simple-as-possible setup for local mail
    delivery.

    See http://www.postfix.org/STANDARD_CONFIGURATION_README.html as a
    starting point. Using Postfix for the purposes you described is an easy-to-setup, robust option which can (but does not have to) grow with possible future demands.

    -Ralph

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Laurence Perkins on Wed Dec 15 21:40:03 2021
    On 12/15/21 1:21 PM, Laurence Perkins wrote:
    So one thing that's annoyed me for a while is that there are several
    things which will pull in nullmailer to accept local mails, but don't
    pull in anything to do local delivery (And I'm not sure if nullmailer
    can even pass things to local delivery) so your local delivery mails
    by default just stack up in the nullmailer outbound queue unless you configure it to pass them off to an external mail system.

    Since the most commonly used of these programs are things like cron
    where local delivery is probably the only thing most users would
    care about it might be nice if the default configuration were one
    that does that, and then those who want local mail relayed elsewhere
    still don't have any significant extra setup work to do.

    The idea of having a default mail configuration that would deliver
    locally originated messages (e.g. from cron) to local user's mailboxes
    (mbox) in /var(/spool)/mail makes sense to me.

    I don't think I'd /personally/ us it b/c I run full MTAs on all my
    systems. But that's /me/. I realize that I'm atypical.

    But I would +1 a simple config that does local delivery from "<foo> |
    mail ${USER}" to end up in "/var/spool/mail/${USER}".



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 19 00:10:02 2021
    Am Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 02:25:09PM +0100 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:
    Hey list,

    I am looking for an as-simple-as-possible setup for local mail delivery.
    What I mean by that is: the mail shall go into /var/spool/mail locally,
    which is why I deem it overkill to set up and run a complicated smtpd
    daemon with its own config file language.

    At my previous employer we used mda on our Ubuntu-based machines, but this
    is not available in Gentoo.

    Just for the record and completeness’ sake: I just cleaned out old browser tabs (many months old) and from one of them I found out that the program was actually called dma -- the DragonFly BSD mail transport agent, not mda. The
    tab still stemmed from my last attempt at this whole topic.

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    Adolescence, n.: The stage between puberty and adultery.

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Frank Steinmetzger on Sun Dec 19 03:20:01 2021
    On 12/18/21 4:00 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    Just for the record and completeness’ sake: ... I found out that the program was actually called dma -- the DragonFly BSD mail transport
    agent, not mda.

    Thank you for sharing your find Frank.

    The DragonFly BSD MTA looks interesting. I'll have to check it out.
    Especially if it's small and intended for local delivery and / or
    getting messages off of box all the while without exposing an SMTP port.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 19 15:30:02 2021
    Am Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 07:19:19PM -0700 schrieb Grant Taylor:
    On 12/18/21 4:00 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    Just for the record and completeness’ sake: ... I found out that the program was actually called dma -- the DragonFly BSD mail transport
    agent, not mda.

    Thank you for sharing your find Frank.

    The DragonFly BSD MTA looks interesting. I'll have to check it out. Especially if it's small and intended for local delivery and / or getting messages off of box all the while without exposing an SMTP port.

    I actually managed to get it going yesterday on both my laptop and PC. :)

    Just install dma, remove /var/spool/mail/* from previous attempts (due to
    wrong permission), and `echo test | mail root` worked like a charm both for root and my user. But for some reason, when root mails to my user, the mail remains stuck in the queue in /var/spool/dma. But that’s not really a
    problem because it’s an irrelevant use case.

    Now I finally have smartd messaging, and getting it into my mutt sidebar was only one line away in muttrc. Coincidentally, I found out that I seem to
    have smart monitoring included in KDE already. But that doesn’t help me on the NAS, of course.

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    Distant relatives aren’t what they used to be since the invention of planes.

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 20 20:10:01 2021
    Am Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 07:19:19PM -0700 schrieb Grant Taylor:
    On 12/18/21 4:00 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    Just for the record and completeness’ sake: ... I found out that the program was actually called dma -- the DragonFly BSD mail transport
    agent, not mda.

    Thank you for sharing your find Frank.

    The DragonFly BSD MTA looks interesting. I'll have to check it out. Especially if it's small and intended for local delivery and / or getting messages off of box all the while without exposing an SMTP port.

    A little update report. After the setup of dma went so smoothly on my Arch installations, I wanted to recreate it on my Gentoo-based NAS over the
    weekend:

    - cloned the dma repo¹ and installed everything
    - removed everything from /var/spool/mail and any leftover queues for a
    clean start
    - changed the sendmail path in fcron.conf from usr/bin to usr/local/bin
    - had to amend /etc/mailutils.conf, because it sets up the root mailbox as
    a maildir called .maildir (according to the comment, that is Gentoo-
    specific). So I just commented out that block to (hopefully) get GNU
    maildir default behavior

    Now I finally get mails from cron et al on my NAS and can read them with
    mail or mutt. I can sleep better now, knowing that it will monitor its four
    6 TB disks and notify me at the first sign of trouble, including “there is new mail” on the console. \o/

    There is one last niggle: after I read a message with the mail tool, it
    saves those messages in /root/mbox. It does not do this on Arch, but keeps
    them in /var/spool/mail/root instead. So far I haven’t found out why it does that and where that might be configured. Perhaps some leftover config from previous experiments with different mail packages.


    ¹ https://github.com/corecode/dma

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    The circle is the parallel to the dot.

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 20 20:20:02 2021
    Am Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 08:08:21PM +0100 schrieb Frank Steinmetzger:

    There is one last niggle: after I read a message with the mail tool, it
    saves those messages in /root/mbox.

    Which is actually a maildir directory. :D

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    What was that disease called again that makes you forget everything?

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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Frank Steinmetzger on Mon Dec 20 21:10:02 2021
    On 12/20/21 12:08 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    There is one last niggle: after I read a message with the mail tool,
    it saves those messages in /root/mbox. It does not do this on Arch,
    but keeps them in /var/spool/mail/root instead.

    This sounds like the doing of your mail user agent.

    The MTA+LDA receive and deliver the mail (respectively) to the user's
    mailbox.

    The MUA is what reads / modifies the mailbox.

    So ... compare the email client that you're using between the two systems.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 20 23:10:01 2021
    Am Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 01:00:13PM -0700 schrieb Grant Taylor:
    On 12/20/21 12:08 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    There is one last niggle: after I read a message with the mail tool, it saves those messages in /root/mbox. It does not do this on Arch, but
    keeps them in /var/spool/mail/root instead.

    This sounds like the doing of your mail user agent.

    The MTA+LDA receive and deliver the mail (respectively) to the user's mailbox.

    Delivery works on both systems (with a little caveat, see second-last paragraph).

    The MUA is what reads / modifies the mailbox.
    So ... compare the email client that you're using between the two systems.

    At first I believed that both systems used mail from GNU mailutils.
    But I erred:

    My Gentoo NAS only has mailutils installed. But while I have that also installed on Arch, I was in fact using s-nail’s mail program there.
    Mailutils installs its mail as /usr/bin/gnu-mail instead, which allows both packages to co-exist (which Gentoo does not). So I tried gnu-mail on Arch,
    but this does not move read mail away upon exit like its Gentoo cousin.

    I did more trials, wrote a lengthy description of it into this message and threw them away again, so I wouldn’t bore you. In the end I gave up, removed Gentoo’s mailutils and went with s-nail. And now it works. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


    Maybe building dma from source broke some stuff, because it installed into /usr/local. `echo foo | mail root` (mail from mailutils) produces mail that remains in dma’s queue, whereas `echo bar | sendmail root` (/usr/local/sbin/ sendmail from dma) gets the mail delivered to the spool file. But the latter mails were missing vital headers and thus mail had a problem displaying
    them properly.

    It’s all a bit voodoo-esque to my simple-minded user’s point of view; confusion over many implementations of the same standard; they should interoperate, but maybe don’t, or maybe I did not configure them properly. plus the overly complex configs and info documentation on GNU’s side which keeps me away. It must have been great days back in the 80s. I wish I had experienced those times and machines.

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    What lies on the bottom of the ocean and shivers? - A nervours wreck.

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  • From Wol@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Mon Dec 20 23:40:01 2021
    On 20/12/2021 22:28, Grant Taylor wrote:
    But the latter mails were missing vital headers and thus mail had a
    problem displaying them properly.

    That sounds like raw, unprocessed email to me.

    You mean the body sans envelope?

    Cheers,
    Wol

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Frank Steinmetzger on Mon Dec 20 23:30:02 2021
    On 12/20/21 3:09 PM, Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
    Delivery works on both systems

    :-)

    (with a little caveat, see second-last paragraph).

    ;-)

    At first I believed that both systems used mail from GNU mailutils.
    But I erred:

    Ya. Determining /which/ implementation of a command is being used can
    be ... difficult at times.

    My Gentoo NAS only has mailutils installed. But while I have that also installed on Arch, I was in fact using s-nail’s mail program there. Mailutils installs its mail as /usr/bin/gnu-mail instead, which allows
    both packages to co-exist (which Gentoo does not).

    Yep. That could be an issue. It's not bad if you are aware of it and
    can account for it.

    So I tried gnu-mail on Arch, but this does not move read mail away
    upon exit like its Gentoo cousin.

    That might be a default configuration / rc file in somewhere in /etc.

    I did more trials, wrote a lengthy description of it into this message
    and threw them away again, so I wouldn’t bore you.

    /me chuckles mildly.

    I doubt that you would bore me. I might also learn something about Arch
    and possibly even Gentoo. But those bits have already gone through the circuit. (Portmanteau of "water under the bridge"?)

    In the end I gave up, removed Gentoo’s mailutils and went with
    s-nail. And now it works. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    It sounds like you've achieved your goal /and/ that we (at least you and
    I) learned some things along the way. :-D

    Maybe building dma from source broke some stuff, because it installed
    into /usr/local. `echo foo | mail root` (mail from mailutils) produces
    mail that remains in dma’s queue, whereas `echo bar | sendmail root` (/usr/local/sbin/ sendmail from dma) gets the mail delivered to the
    spool file.

    I would expect the `mail` and `sendmail` commands (binaries / scripts)
    to do slightly different things. Both should accept messages on STDIN.
    But what they do with them might be different.

    Leaving the message in the spool makes me think that there is
    expectation that something else, maybe even another part of DMA, will do something with the spooled message(s). Maybe DMA is expecting some sort
    of cron job to work the mail queue.

    But the latter mails were missing vital headers and thus mail had a
    problem displaying them properly.

    That sounds like raw, unprocessed email to me.

    It’s all a bit voodoo-esque to my simple-minded user’s point of
    view; confusion over many implementations of the same standard;

    The wonderful thing about standards is that we have so many to choose
    from. }:-)

    they should interoperate,

    Ideally.

    but maybe don’t, or maybe I did not configure them properly.

    See above comment about cron et al.

    plus the overly complex configs and info documentation on GNU’s
    side which keeps me away. It must have been great days back in the
    80s. I wish I had experienced those times and machines.

    Email is ... non-trivial, to put it mildly. There are many different
    things that interact and each behaves slightly differently while doing a different part of the job.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Wol on Tue Dec 21 00:40:02 2021
    On 12/20/21 3:37 PM, Wol wrote:
    You mean the body sans envelope?

    Kinda, sorta, yes, no, maybe.

    I'd have to compare the two formats to be able to say more definitively,
    or with any certainty. But, ya, that's the /type/ of difference that
    I'm thinking of.

    Aside: What /actually/ is the body vs envelope? In SMTP it's simple,
    it, everything between the DATA and the trailing <CR><LF>.<CR><LF> is
    the body the MAIL FROM: and RCPT TO(s) are envelope. But RFC 822
    messages on disk, that's a bit of a horse of a different color. It's
    easy to differentiate body from headers, but envelope???



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)