• [gentoo-user] python mess - random winge!

    From William Kenworthy@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 5 07:10:01 2022
    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are rebuilding
    python modules for 3.10 without any input from me (prior to this 3.10
    was on the system but wasn't picked up by applications.)  This is
    breaking non portage apps like homeassistant which are still not fully
    3.10 safe - ok that's sort of expected and in this case will be fixed,
    but I cant find anything definitive on the task of "I want to control
    which python is used" and when to update.

    I eventually found that changing the order in python-exec.conf helped on
    the homeassistant system.  There is a LOT of out of date documentation
    out there, particularly with eselect being used but is actually not used
    with python anymore (why? - from a user point of view having consistent
    access to configuration is a no brainer!) - so how can one get python to
    behave reliably and override its automatic get things wrong installation system?  Is manually editing python-exec.conf the way (which seems to
    get overwritten - shouldn't that be a protected config file then?)

    BillK

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  • From Nikos Chantziaras@21:1/5 to William Kenworthy on Tue Jul 5 08:00:01 2022
    On 05/07/2022 08:04, William Kenworthy wrote:
    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are rebuilding python modules for 3.10 without any input from me [...]
    Yes, that's normal and there was a news item about it. Do:

    eselect news list

    to get the and then use the NUMBER of the "Python 3.10 to become the
    default on 2022-07-01" news item:

    eselect read NUMBER

    This will give you details on how to do the upgrade properly.

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  • From cal@21:1/5 to William Kenworthy on Tue Jul 5 08:00:01 2022
    On 7/4/22 22:04, William Kenworthy wrote:
    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are rebuilding python modules for 3.10 without any input from me (prior to this 3.10
    was on the system but wasn't picked up by applications.)  This is
    breaking non portage apps like homeassistant which are still not fully
    3.10 safe - ok that's sort of expected and in this case will be fixed,
    but I cant find anything definitive on the task of "I want to control
    which python is used" and when to update.

    As Nikos mentioned in another reply, you should pay attention to the
    eselect news items as python upgrades are usually announced weeks in
    advance.


    I eventually found that changing the order in python-exec.conf helped on
    the homeassistant system.

    There is a LOT of out of date documentation
    out there, particularly with eselect being used but is actually not used
    with python anymore (why? - from a user point of view having consistent access to configuration is a no brainer!)

    I don't see any deprecation notice on https://packages.gentoo.org/packages/app-eselect/eselect-python, but
    someone could correct me.

    - so how can one get python to
    behave reliably and override its automatic get things wrong installation system?  Is manually editing python-exec.conf the way (which seems to
    get overwritten - shouldn't that be a protected config file then?)

    The python package supports installing multiple versions to different
    slots. The easiest way I've found to run python software that depends
    on a specific version, without mucking around with global python
    settings, is to install the relevant version (e.g. emerge python:3.8)
    and then use venv to run that software in a virtual environment
    (python3.8 -m venv .env; .env/bin/python something.py).


    BillK

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  • From wkuz@op.pl@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 5 08:30:01 2022
    Dnia 2022-07-05, o godz. 13:04:07
    William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> napisał(a):

    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are
    rebuilding python modules for 3.10 without any input from me (prior
    to this 3.10 was on the system but wasn't picked up by applications.)
    This is breaking non portage apps like homeassistant which are still
    not fully 3.10 safe - ok that's sort of expected and in this case
    will be fixed, but I cant find anything definitive on the task of "I
    want to control which python is used" and when to update.

    I eventually found that changing the order in python-exec.conf helped
    on the homeassistant system.  There is a LOT of out of date
    documentation out there, particularly with eselect being used but is
    actually not used with python anymore (why? - from a user point of
    view having consistent access to configuration is a no brainer!) - so
    how can one get python to behave reliably and override its automatic
    get things wrong installation system?  Is manually editing
    python-exec.conf the way (which seems to get overwritten - shouldn't
    that be a protected config file then?)

    BillK





    Hello!

    In "eselect news" info about python update there is a paragraph about
    blocking the upgrade. It just means adding:

    */* PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_9
    */* PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_9

    to /etc/portage/make.conf or /etc/portage/package.use or /etc/portage/package.use/zz-somename - whichever suites you best.

    You can also change these settings just for some packages, by adding:

    cat/pkg PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_9 PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_9

    to one of aforementioned files.

    Hope that helps!

    --
    xWK

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  • From Neil Bothwick@21:1/5 to William Kenworthy on Tue Jul 5 10:00:01 2022
    On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:31:38 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote:

    I did read the news item and set the systems as above with multiple
    python targets - there is no mention of python-exec and its role in
    which python version is in use for packages that just call "python".  Perhaps I should have been clearer - what I see is with multiple python targets present the python ebuild automatically selects the latest
    version that is stable via python-exec - ok, some would want that.  But
    what it should do is respect the users choice of running version and not automaticly overide it without asking.  It looks like python-exec is the controlling factor so I'll try CONFIG_PROTECTon that file and manually
    manage it via ansible.

    It is already CONFIG_PROTECTed, I had to approve the changes in the usual
    way before they went ahead. What I find slightly odd is that this file is
    also managed by eselect-python, but that is not installed by default. I
    would have expected it to be part of @system.


    --
    Neil Bothwick

    Quick!! Act as if nothing has happened!

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  • From William Kenworthy@21:1/5 to wkuz@op.pl on Tue Jul 5 09:40:01 2022
    This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
    On 5/7/22 14:24, wkuz@op.pl wrote:
    Dnia 2022-07-05, o godz. 13:04:07
    William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> napisał(a):

    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are
    rebuilding python modules for 3.10 without any input from me (prior
    to this 3.10 was on the system but wasn't picked up by applications.)
    This is breaking non portage apps like homeassistant which are still
    not fully 3.10 safe - ok that's sort of expected and in this case
    will be fixed, but I cant find anything definitive on the task of "I
    want to control which python is used" and when to update.

    I eventually found that changing the order in python-exec.conf helped
    on the homeassistant system.  There is a LOT of out of date
    documentation out there, particularly with eselect being used but is
    actually not used with python anymore (why? - from a user point of
    view having consistent access to configuration is a no brainer!) - so
    how can one get python to behave reliably and override its automatic
    get things wrong installation system?  Is manually editing
    python-exec.conf the way (which seems to get overwritten - shouldn't
    that be a protected config file then?)

    BillK




    Hello!

    In "eselect news" info about python update there is a paragraph about blocking the upgrade. It just means adding:

    */* PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_9
    */* PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_9

    to /etc/portage/make.conf or /etc/portage/package.use or /etc/portage/package.use/zz-somename - whichever suites you best.

    You can also change these settings just for some packages, by adding:

    cat/pkg PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_9 PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_9

    to one of aforementioned files.

    Hope that helps!


    I did read the news item and set the systems as above with multiple
    python targets - there is no mention of python-exec and its role in
    which python version is in use for packages that just call "python". 
    Perhaps I should have been clearer - what I see is with multiple python
    targets present the python ebuild automatically selects the latest
    version that is stable via python-exec - ok, some would want that.  But
    what it should do is respect the users choice of running version and not automaticly overide it without asking.  It looks like python-exec is the controlling factor so I'll try CONFIG_PROTECTon that file and manually
    manage it via ansible.

    BillK


    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/7/22 14:24, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wkuz@op.pl">wkuz@op.pl</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:20220705082131.5a79528f@op.pl">
    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Dnia 2022-07-05, o godz. 13:04:07 William Kenworthy <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:billk@iinet.net.au">&lt;billk@iinet.net.au&gt;</a> napisał(a):

    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are
    rebuilding python modules for 3.10 without any input from me (prior
    to this 3.10 was on the system but wasn't picked up by applications.)
    This is breaking non portage apps like homeassistant which are still
    not fully 3.10 safe - ok that's sort of expected and in this case
    will be fixed, but I cant find anything definitive on the task of "I
    want to control which python is used" and when to update.

    I eventually found that changing the order in python-exec.conf helped
    on the homeassistant system.  There is a LOT of out of date
    documentation out there, particularly with eselect being used but is
    actually not used with python anymore (why? - from a user point of
    view having consistent access to configuration is a no brainer!) - so
    how can one get python to behave reliably and override its automatic
    get things wrong installation system?  Is manually editing
    python-exec.conf the way (which seems to get overwritten - shouldn't
    that be a protected config file then?)

    BillK




    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
    Hello!

    In "eselect news" info about python update there is a paragraph about
    blocking the upgrade. It just means adding:

    */* PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_9
    */* PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_9

    to /etc/portage/make.conf or /etc/portage/package.use or /etc/portage/package.use/zz-somename - whichever suites you best.

    You can also change these settings just for some packages, by adding:

    cat/pkg PYTHON_TARGETS: -* python3_9 PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET: -* python3_9

    to one of aforementioned files.

    Hope that helps!
    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>I did read the news item and set the systems as above with
    multiple python targets - there is no mention of python-exec and
    its role in which python version is in use for packages that just
    call "python".  Perhaps I should have been clearer - what I see is
    with multiple python targets present the python ebuild
    automatically selects the latest version that is stable via
    python-exec - ok, some would want that.  But what it should do is
    respect the users choice of running version and not automaticly
    overide it without asking.  It looks like python-exec is the
    controlling factor so I'll try <span class="nv">CONFIG_PROTECT</span><span
    class="o"> on that file and manually manage it via ansible.<br>
    </span></p>
    <p>BillK</p>
    <p><br>
    <span class="o"></span><span class="s2"></span></p>
    </body>
    </html>

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  • From Petr =?utf-8?B?VmFuxJtr?=@21:1/5 to Neil Bothwick on Tue Jul 5 11:20:01 2022
    On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 08:56:11AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
    On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:31:38 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote:

    I did read the news item and set the systems as above with multiple
    python targets - there is no mention of python-exec and its role in
    which python version is in use for packages that just call "python".  Perhaps I should have been clearer - what I see is with multiple python targets present the python ebuild automatically selects the latest
    version that is stable via python-exec - ok, some would want that.  But what it should do is respect the users choice of running version and not automaticly overide it without asking.  It looks like python-exec is the controlling factor so I'll try CONFIG_PROTECTon that file and manually manage it via ansible.

    It is already CONFIG_PROTECTed, I had to approve the changes in the usual
    way before they went ahead. What I find slightly odd is that this file is also managed by eselect-python, but that is not installed by default. I
    would have expected it to be part of @system.

    This change is described in https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-01-30-python-preference-to-follow-python-targets.html

    Petr

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  • From Neil Bothwick@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 5 14:30:01 2022
    On Tue, 5 Jul 2022 11:17:27 +0200, Petr Vaněk wrote:

    It is already CONFIG_PROTECTed, I had to approve the changes in the
    usual way before they went ahead. What I find slightly odd is that
    this file is also managed by eselect-python, but that is not
    installed by default. I would have expected it to be part of @system.


    This change is described in https://www.gentoo.org/support/news-items/2021-01-30-python-preference-to-follow-python-targets.html

    Worth reading, I missed that one, thanks.


    --
    Neil Bothwick

    "Do you reply to our surveys.?"
    [X]Never [ ]Always [ ]Sometimes

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  • From Jack@21:1/5 to Grant Edwards on Tue Jul 5 18:40:01 2022
    On 2022.07.05 12:24, Grant Edwards wrote:
    On 2022-07-05, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:

    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are
    rebuilding
    python modules for 3.10 without any input from me [...]

    Every time there's a Python upgrade like this, it turns into a bit of
    an ordeal because I always have a small handful of packages that don't support the newer version.

    The news item offers no advice on what to do in this situation other
    than completely postponing the upgrade of everything (which doesn't
    seem like the best choice.)

    It would be nice if the news item explained how to let the upgrade
    procede while holding back a few packages.

    Can you set 3_9 and 3_10 globally, and then disable 3_10 for a few
    individual packages that can't be built with 3_10?
    As far as I can tell, you just need to add python_targets_python3_9 for
    the package in the appropriate package.use file.

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  • From Grant Edwards@21:1/5 to William Kenworthy on Tue Jul 5 18:30:01 2022
    On 2022-07-05, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:

    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are rebuilding python modules for 3.10 without any input from me [...]

    Every time there's a Python upgrade like this, it turns into a bit of
    an ordeal because I always have a small handful of packages that don't
    support the newer version.

    The news item offers no advice on what to do in this situation other
    than completely postponing the upgrade of everything (which doesn't
    seem like the best choice.)

    It would be nice if the news item explained how to let the upgrade
    procede while holding back a few packages.

    Can you set 3_9 and 3_10 globally, and then disable 3_10 for a few
    individual packages that can't be built with 3_10?

    --
    Grant

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  • From Grant Edwards@21:1/5 to Jack on Tue Jul 5 18:50:02 2022
    On 2022-07-05, Jack <ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
    On 2022.07.05 12:24, Grant Edwards wrote:
    On 2022-07-05, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:

    It would be nice if the news item explained how to let the upgrade
    procede while holding back a few packages.

    Can you set 3_9 and 3_10 globally, and then disable 3_10 for a few
    individual packages that can't be built with 3_10?

    As far as I can tell, you just need to add python_targets_python3_9 for
    the package in the appropriate package.use file.

    I've tried that, and it takes forever. Everything time you do it, the
    next emerge attempt will fail because one of that package's
    dependencies doesn't have 3_9 set. So you set that one, do an emerge,
    and it fails because there's another depenency that doesn't have 3_9
    set. Repeat this for an hour or two...

    If it would tell you about all of them at once, it wouldn't be so bad.
    But, if you're trying to hold back a large application with dozens and
    dozens of dependancies it makes you want to scream.

    Or doesn't it torture you like that any longer?

    --
    Grant

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  • From Rich Freeman@21:1/5 to ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net on Tue Jul 5 18:50:02 2022
    On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:36 PM Jack <ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

    On 2022.07.05 12:24, Grant Edwards wrote:
    On 2022-07-05, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:

    I synced portage a couple of days now and now my systems are
    rebuilding
    python modules for 3.10 without any input from me [...]

    Every time there's a Python upgrade like this, it turns into a bit of
    an ordeal because I always have a small handful of packages that don't support the newer version.

    The news item offers no advice on what to do in this situation other
    than completely postponing the upgrade of everything (which doesn't
    seem like the best choice.)

    It would be nice if the news item explained how to let the upgrade
    procede while holding back a few packages.

    Can you set 3_9 and 3_10 globally, and then disable 3_10 for a few individual packages that can't be built with 3_10?
    As far as I can tell, you just need to add python_targets_python3_9 for
    the package in the appropriate package.use file.


    That and its dependencies. Obviously you need to be caught up before
    things get removed from the repo, but the offending package itself
    will get removed when that happens anyway.

    You can always just globally keep the older version around longer if
    you don't want to deal with a bunch of cruft in
    /etc/portage/package.use. The news item explains how to do this.

    --
    Rich

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  • From Jack@21:1/5 to Grant Edwards on Tue Jul 5 19:10:01 2022
    On 2022.07.05 12:43, Grant Edwards wrote:
    On 2022-07-05, Jack <ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
    On 2022.07.05 12:24, Grant Edwards wrote:
    On 2022-07-05, William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:

    It would be nice if the news item explained how to let the upgrade
    procede while holding back a few packages.

    Can you set 3_9 and 3_10 globally, and then disable 3_10 for a few
    individual packages that can't be built with 3_10?

    As far as I can tell, you just need to add python_targets_python3_9
    for
    the package in the appropriate package.use file.

    I've tried that, and it takes forever. Everything time you do it, the
    next emerge attempt will fail because one of that package's
    dependencies doesn't have 3_9 set. So you set that one, do an emerge,
    and it fails because there's another depenency that doesn't have 3_9
    set. Repeat this for an hour or two...

    If it would tell you about all of them at once, it wouldn't be so bad.
    But, if you're trying to hold back a large application with dozens and
    dozens of dependancies it makes you want to scream.

    Or doesn't it torture you like that any longer?
    Oh, it still does. I just think I anticipate it more often, so I am frequently able to deal with more than one "layer" in each round, so
    the total process doesn't take so long. I've run into problems both
    for dependencies of the package I changed first, and packages for which
    It is a dependency.

    On major updates, such as KDE, emerge @world often shows me a long list
    of packages it will upgrade, followed by a long list of slot
    conflicts. Over the years I've not necessarily gotten better at
    directly interpreting portage's output, but at least figuring out I've
    got one package somehow related to the ones to be upgraded (usually somewhere in the dependency tree) which itself doesn't have an upgrade,
    but does need to be rebuilt at the same time. I'll often end up doing "eix-installed -a | grep kde" (or python) and look for a package that
    isn't being upgraded, but is in the dependency tree of one or more
    which is. It is also common that the problem is a package I've added
    under /etc/portage, and I just need to figure out if it still needs to
    be there, or else how that non-standard entry affects other packages.

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  • From Wols Lists@21:1/5 to Rich Freeman on Tue Jul 5 19:20:01 2022
    On 05/07/2022 17:44, Rich Freeman wrote:
    hat and its dependencies. Obviously you need to be caught up before
    things get removed from the repo, but the offending package itself
    will get removed when that happens anyway.

    You can always just globally keep the older version around longer if
    you don't want to deal with a bunch of cruft in
    /etc/portage/package.use. The news item explains how to do this.

    I'd be inclined to lock the older version of the package you want so it
    won't upgrade automatically (don't know how to do this, probably put
    that particular version in @world), and also give that a python 9
    dependency in package.use.

    That way, when they update it to python 10, you can delete the version
    lock on your package, and it will upgrade and get rid of all the python
    9 stuff without you having to worry about it.

    I always try and make sure anything I don't care about but that needs
    specific stuff is always specified by version. That way, as the system
    moves on, all that cruft just falls off the wagon ...

    Cheers,
    Wol

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  • From Rich Freeman@21:1/5 to antlists@youngman.org.uk on Tue Jul 5 20:40:01 2022
    On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 1:10 PM Wols Lists <antlists@youngman.org.uk> wrote:

    On 05/07/2022 17:44, Rich Freeman wrote:
    hat and its dependencies. Obviously you need to be caught up before
    things get removed from the repo, but the offending package itself
    will get removed when that happens anyway.

    You can always just globally keep the older version around longer if
    you don't want to deal with a bunch of cruft in
    /etc/portage/package.use. The news item explains how to do this.

    I'd be inclined to lock the older version of the package you want so it
    won't upgrade automatically (don't know how to do this, probably put
    that particular version in @world), and also give that a python 9
    dependency in package.use.

    The news item explains how to get the upgrade earlier, delay the
    upgrade entirely, or have support for both versions. I'd suggest
    doing it the way the news item suggests, because when you start
    fighting the devs who maintain the python update logic, you're
    probably going to find yourself swearing a lot.

    --
    Rich

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