• [gentoo-user] Official support for the s6 init on Gentoo

    From lumaro@disroot.org@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 19 19:20:02 2021
    Hi all,

    I would like to propose the official support of s6 in Gentoo, although it is true that it is accepted, it does not have official support and would need the creation of new scripts for the correct operation of s6 in the system.

    This request is motivated by the malaise caused by systemd along with the latest decisions made by Gentoo. The worst thing for OpenRC (native, by default and alternative to systemd) is to adopt binaries from it, that will create more discomfort in the
    community and it seems fair to me to have a real independent alternative (binaries, libraries and device manager) like s6 . I think it would be a good solution for both start systems, we would all be happier. Of course, some extra work will require from
    Gentoo.

    S6 init system is already working in other distributions, with good acceptance, Gentoo has always been characterized by its flexibility, I do not see why we could not enjoy this init and thus have 2 clearly different, autonomous and compatible
    alternatives to continue using Gentoo comfortably.

    For the record, I have nothing against systemd and I do not intend or encourage to create any controversy, but it seems good and healthy, both for the community and for the future of Gentoo, to have a real alternative to systemd and not follow the path
    which is adopting OpenRC, accepting systemd binaries if they "work and do the trick".

    You can express your vote in favor by answering this email and affirming that you agree. Please, do not indicate controversial or disqualifying comments, this email can serve to demonstrate the number of users who are interested in having an alternative,
    complete and functional system to systemd in Gentoo. At no time do I have anything against it, that it continues to be developed and used, whoever wants, but also that those who do not, have an alternative.

    Thanks.

    <!DOCTYPE html><html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /></head><body><div data-html-editor-font-wrapper="true" style="font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><p>Hi all,</p><p>I would like to propose the
    official support of s6 in Gentoo, although it is true that it is accepted, it does not have official support and would need the creation of new scripts for the correct operation of s6 in the system.<br><br>This request is motivated by the malaise caused
    by systemd along with the latest decisions made by Gentoo. The worst thing for OpenRC (native, by default and alternative to systemd) is to adopt binaries from it, that will create more discomfort in the community and it seems fair to me to have a real
    independent alternative (binaries, libraries and device manager) like s6 . I think it would be a good solution for both start systems, we would all be happier. Of course, some extra work will require from Gentoo.<br><br>S6 init system is already working
    in other distributions, with good acceptance, Gentoo has always been characterized by its flexibility, I do not see why we could not enjoy this init and thus have 2 clearly different, autonomous and compatible alternatives to continue using Gentoo
    comfortably.<br><br>For the record, I have nothing against systemd and I do not intend or encourage to create any controversy, but it seems good and healthy, both for the community and for the future of Gentoo, to have a real alternative to systemd and
    not follow the path which is adopting OpenRC, accepting systemd binaries if they "work and do the trick".<br><br>You can express your vote in favor by answering this email and affirming that you agree. Please, do not indicate controversial or
    disqualifying comments, this email can serve to demonstrate the number of users who are interested in having an alternative, complete and functional system to systemd in Gentoo. At no time do I have anything against it, that it continues to be developed
    and used, whoever wants, but also that those who do not, have an alternative.<br><br>Thanks.<br><br><signature></signature></p></div></body></html>

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  • From Marco Rebhan@21:1/5 to lumaro@disroot.org on Sun Sep 19 21:25:47 2021
    On Sunday, 19 September 2021 19.15.50 CEST lumaro@disroot.org wrote:
    The worst thing for OpenRC
    (native, by default and alternative to systemd) is to adopt binaries
    from it

    Hi,

    Those binaries (I'm assuming you're talking about udev and tmpfilesd)
    don't really have any overlap with what OpenRC does (init/service
    management) and from what I can see it's the exact same situation for s6
    so the same systemd code would still be required. I'm not saying that s6 support is a bad thing but the reason you state for adding it seems out
    of place.

    There's an existing s6 eclass that installs s6 services; as far as I can
    see, a total of 2 packages use it right now. My guess is that the reason
    why there's no s6 support across the board yet is lack of interest. You
    could either create a dedicated overlay or submit patches to the gentoo repository to directly add support to more packages.

    -Marco
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  • From =?UTF-8?B?Q2FuZWsgUGVsw6FleiBWYWxkw@21:1/5 to lumaro@disroot.org on Sun Sep 19 23:20:01 2021
    On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:16 PM <lumaro@disroot.org> wrote:
    [...]

    Of course, some extra work will require from Gentoo.

    That's great; when you have found enough people willing and able to do that work specifically for Gentoo, including maintenance, updates, bug
    reporting, triage and fixes for the foreseeable future, then a reasonable proposal could be made.

    An alternative is to start and maintain an oficial overlay (note: it would
    also require enough people willing and able to do that work); if, as you suspect, s6 has enough qualities, it would attract a large number of users
    and then requesting a merge of the overlay to the official tree should be easier.

    But really, you are asking for other people to do the work in something
    that interests you. No matter how many Gentoo users could share your
    interest (which, BTW, I suspect there are not that many), if there are not enough of them *WILLING* and *ABLE* to do the work to satisfy that
    interest, then their number is irrelevant.

    That's how Free Software and Open Source works: someone has to be willing
    and able to do the work for anything to be implemented. If you are really interested, *you* start doing the work.

    Code talks.

    Regards.
    --
    Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
    Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
    Departamento de Matemáticas
    Facultad de Ciencias
    Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

    <div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:16 PM &lt;<a href="mailto:lumaro@disroot.org">lumaro@disroot.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">[...]</div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><p> Of course, some extra work will require from Gentoo.<br></p></div></div></blockquote><div>That&#39;s great; when you
    have found enough people willing and able to do that work specifically for Gentoo, including maintenance, updates, bug reporting, triage and fixes for the foreseeable future, then a reasonable proposal could be made.</div><div><br></div><div>An
    alternative is to start and maintain an oficial overlay (note: it would also require enough people willing and able to do that work); if, as you suspect, s6 has enough qualities, it would attract a large number of users and then requesting a merge of the
    overlay to the official tree should be easier.</div><div><br></div><div>But really, you are asking for other people to do the work in something that interests you. No matter how many Gentoo users could share your interest (which, BTW, I suspect there are
    not that many), if there are not enough of them *WILLING* and *ABLE* to do the work to satisfy that interest, then their number is irrelevant.</div><div><br></div><div>That&#39;s how Free Software and Open Source works: someone has to be willing and able
    to do the work for anything to be implemented. If you are really interested, *you* start doing the work.</div><div><br></div><div>Code talks.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards.</div><div>--<br></div></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="
    ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés<br>Profesor de Carrera Asociado C<br>Departamento de Matemáticas<br>Facultad de Ciencias<br>Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México</font></div></div></
    </div></div></div>

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