• Re: [gentoo-user] Handling a sizable amount of spam and Dovecote questi

    From Marco Rebhan@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 20 15:06:47 2022
    On Thursday, 20 January 2022 14:22:02 CET Dale wrote:
    What do others do with spam to minimize it?

    Hi Dale,

    I'm not sure if you're talking about self-hosted mail because you
    mention dovecot, if you do:

    I use postfix's smtp_recipient_restrictions to block mail coming from
    servers marked as spam by RBLs:

    smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
    reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org,
    reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net

    I'm not sure if this is doable through Dovecot configuration, but
    without an MTA like Postfix you can't receive mail anyway. This alone
    seems to block most of the spam I get. And additionally I have rspamd
    and some filters set up because some stuff does get through. I think
    Postfix also lets you block IP ranges directly in case you get spammed
    by some network that isn't listed on spamhaus but I haven't needed that
    yet.

    I'm considering setting
    up another email address and switching then closing current account.
    Yea, it's that annoying. Is there someone I can report them too? Is
    there something I'm not recognizing in the message headers that I can
    use to report them too?

    In case you're using some other email provider (is this about your Gmail address?), what you can do regardless is set up filters (ideally server-
    side if they provide the capability...) filtering mails by e.g. From
    header (I have a whole list of those), and if they have a well
    configured spam filter you should be able to move the spam mail into
    your spam folder and it should eventually start to classify similar mail
    as spam automatically. (but this is specific to the service so I can't
    tell you a way that works everywhere)

    By the way, I have dovecote set up and the service seems to start.
    What do I do after getting the service to start to set up where to
    get email etc?

    If you aren't self-hosting your mail but want to (be warned, it's a fair
    bit of setup connecting it all together), you first need a domain, a
    server with a static IP address (don't use some box in your home) that
    has the correct rDNS record set in addition to DNS, so the hostname can
    be resolved from its public IP. To actually be able to receive mail, you
    also need an MTA. Dovecot is just a way to access a mailbox, it doesn't actually handle receiving mail from other servers or sending mail.
    Postfix is what I use for that, they work well together. I followed
    these wiki articles among some others I can't find right now to set it
    up initially:
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mail_server https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Postfix https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dovecot

    I hope this helps!

    -Marco
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  • From Dale@21:1/5 to Marco Rebhan on Thu Jan 20 15:50:01 2022
    Marco Rebhan wrote:
    On Thursday, 20 January 2022 14:22:02 CET Dale wrote:
    What do others do with spam to minimize it?
    Hi Dale,

    I'm not sure if you're talking about self-hosted mail because you
    mention dovecot, if you do:

    I use postfix's smtp_recipient_restrictions to block mail coming from
    servers marked as spam by RBLs:

    smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
    reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org,
    reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net

    I'm not sure if this is doable through Dovecot configuration, but
    without an MTA like Postfix you can't receive mail anyway. This alone
    seems to block most of the spam I get. And additionally I have rspamd
    and some filters set up because some stuff does get through. I think
    Postfix also lets you block IP ranges directly in case you get spammed
    by some network that isn't listed on spamhaus but I haven't needed that
    yet.

    Once I get Dovecote set up, that could be a option.  Sounds like a good
    one at that.  ;-)


    I'm considering setting
    up another email address and switching then closing current account.
    Yea, it's that annoying. Is there someone I can report them too? Is
    there something I'm not recognizing in the message headers that I can
    use to report them too?
    In case you're using some other email provider (is this about your Gmail address?), what you can do regardless is set up filters (ideally server-
    side if they provide the capability...) filtering mails by e.g. From
    header (I have a whole list of those), and if they have a well
    configured spam filter you should be able to move the spam mail into
    your spam folder and it should eventually start to classify similar mail
    as spam automatically. (but this is specific to the service so I can't
    tell you a way that works everywhere)

    If I understand you correctly, I have filters set up for different
    messages.  Gentoo-user for example gets sent to a Gentoo-user folder.  I
    have similar set up for most anything that I get on a regular basis;
    ebay, Amazon, bank, family, friends, gentoo lists or forums and lots of others.  Seamonkey comes with a spam filter and most go to trash as I
    have it set to do.  Thing is, I'd rather not get them because who knows
    what mischief they can do or what can be attached.  I have Seamonkey set
    to not load anything, except for highly trusted sites, but still, I
    don't like them sending me their junk.  In all honestly, it doesn't do
    them any good because of my own policy.  I never click on ads, not since
    2003.  While I use adblock to block most stuff, even if a ad gets
    through, I never click on them.  As a matter of fact, there are some
    that have paid for some really annoying ads on sites that I've blocked
    because of their ads.  I don't do business with them.  Why reward bad behavior??



    By the way, I have dovecote set up and the service seems to start.
    What do I do after getting the service to start to set up where to
    get email etc?
    If you aren't self-hosting your mail but want to (be warned, it's a fair
    bit of setup connecting it all together), you first need a domain, a
    server with a static IP address (don't use some box in your home) that
    has the correct rDNS record set in addition to DNS, so the hostname can
    be resolved from its public IP. To actually be able to receive mail, you
    also need an MTA. Dovecot is just a way to access a mailbox, it doesn't actually handle receiving mail from other servers or sending mail.
    Postfix is what I use for that, they work well together. I followed
    these wiki articles among some others I can't find right now to set it
    up initially:
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Mail_server https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Postfix https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dovecot

    I hope this helps!

    -Marco


    Well, for the moment, I want to use it for gmail that I'm posting with. 
    My reason for this, Seamonkey is in a iffy state.  I've already started
    using Firefox and containers for most other things but use Seamonkey
    mostly for emails.  My hope, set up something local so that I don't lose
    any older emails and then be able to access those emails with whatever
    web browser or other tool I want, like Firefox.  Of course, I'd want to
    be able to send email as well.  Maybe this is a bigger task than I think
    it is.  Either way, I have Dovecote installed, think it is working but
    no idea what to do with it. 

    Thanks.

    Dale

    :-)  :-)

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  • From William Kenworthy@21:1/5 to Marco Rebhan on Thu Jan 20 15:40:02 2022
    On 20/1/22 22:06, Marco Rebhan wrote:
    On Thursday, 20 January 2022 14:22:02 CET Dale wrote:
    What do others do with spam to minimize it?
    Hi Dale,

    I'm not sure if you're talking about self-hosted mail because you
    mention dovecot, if you do:


    Google Gentoo mail gateway - there are a couple of good guides. Running
    a mail system is a major effort for a small number of accounts however
    it is nowhere near as effective as a user vs one of the larger companies
    such as Cisco who have access to a huge number of data samples to
    analyse and work off.  The ISP I use (iinet) offers cisco ironport spam filtering free on accounts, either off, blocking or marking.  Its very effective whereas my mail filtering gateway using fetchmail, procmail, blacklisting, grey listing, spam-assassin, amavis-new, clamav, razor,
    dcc etc. does sort of work for me, it just doesn't work as well.

    BillK

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  • From Wols Lists@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 20 18:30:02 2022
    Well, for the moment, I want to use it for gmail that I'm posting with.
    My reason for this, Seamonkey is in a iffy state.  I've already started using Firefox and containers for most other things but use Seamonkey
    mostly for emails.  My hope, set up something local so that I don't lose
    any older emails and then be able to access those emails with whatever
    web browser or other tool I want, like Firefox.  Of course, I'd want to
    be able to send email as well.  Maybe this is a bigger task than I think
    it is.  Either way, I have Dovecote installed, think it is working but
    no idea what to do with it.

    Just point your email client at dovecot. Or rather, create an account,
    in your mail client, that points at your dovecot server. Bingo, one
    empty IMAP mail account.

    Now go into your ISP account in the same mail server, and set up client
    filters to move all your mail across into your local (dovecot) account.

    That way you don't need postfix, or fetchmail, or any other fancy mailer service, you're using your normal mail client to copy your emails from
    your isp down to your local system, and categorise and sort them.

    I have rules that move all my mailing lists into dedicated folders,
    marketing junk into dedicated folders (that expire), etc etc. I don't
    actually have that much spam, but I have rules that move what I
    recognise straight into "Deleted" :-)

    Then your spam filter will end up like mine was at work - "Anything I
    want gets moved into dedicated folders, anything left is probably spam".
    So at regular intervals I just sorted my inbox by subject, and
    bulk-deleted pretty much the lot. When scanning by subject, you tend to
    get multiple spams with the same subject, so any ham will stand out
    because there's just the one ...

    (Of course, you could configure fetchmail to collect your mail and dump
    it straight into dovecot ...)

    Cheers,
    Wol

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  • From Dale@21:1/5 to Wols Lists on Sun Jan 23 13:30:03 2022
    Wols Lists wrote:
    Well, for the moment, I want to use it for gmail that I'm posting with.
    My reason for this, Seamonkey is in a iffy state.  I've already started
    using Firefox and containers for most other things but use Seamonkey
    mostly for emails.  My hope, set up something local so that I don't lose
    any older emails and then be able to access those emails with whatever
    web browser or other tool I want, like Firefox.  Of course, I'd want to
    be able to send email as well.  Maybe this is a bigger task than I think
    it is.  Either way, I have Dovecote installed, think it is working but
    no idea what to do with it.

    Just point your email client at dovecot. Or rather, create an account,
    in your mail client, that points at your dovecot server. Bingo, one
    empty IMAP mail account.

    I was hoping to use a web browser like Firefox to access my email.  One
    reason for this, I have multiple Firefox profiles.  My hope is that if I
    click on a link in Firefox, it will open in the same profile, as a new
    tab for example.  I can't see why that wouldn't work.  Thing is, I can't
    get Firefox, or any other browser, to connect no matter what I try.  So,
    I'm lost.  I don't like Thunderbird at all plus, I'd be depending on
    it.  I suspect I could transfer even if I had to move away from Dovecote
    for some reason.  I'm not sure about Seamonkey transferring tho.  May be touchy on that.


    Now go into your ISP account in the same mail server, and set up
    client filters to move all your mail across into your local (dovecot) account.

    That way you don't need postfix, or fetchmail, or any other fancy
    mailer service, you're using your normal mail client to copy your
    emails from your isp down to your local system, and categorise and
    sort them.

    I have rules that move all my mailing lists into dedicated folders,
    marketing junk into dedicated folders (that expire), etc etc. I don't actually have that much spam, but I have rules that move what I
    recognise straight into "Deleted" :-)

    Then your spam filter will end up like mine was at work - "Anything I
    want gets moved into dedicated folders, anything left is probably
    spam". So at regular intervals I just sorted my inbox by subject, and bulk-deleted pretty much the lot. When scanning by subject, you tend
    to get multiple spams with the same subject, so any ham will stand out because there's just the one ...

    (Of course, you could configure fetchmail to collect your mail and
    dump it straight into dovecot ...)

    Cheers,
    Wol




    I already divide my emails into folders.  Example, any email that
    contains [gentoo-user] goes to the gentoo-user folder.  Similar for -dev etc.  I also have folders for things like banking, friends, family,
    shopping websites etc etc.  Well over 95% of my emails goes to a folder
    other than the general purpose inbox.  Any email that will be a regular
    thing gets filtered to something.  Most of what is in the inbox is
    either a one time thing or spam.  Right now, I just have it set to emtpy
    the trash, a LOT.  Clicking the unsub link is doing no good at all. 
    What stupid politician came up with that idea anyway. 

    My plan is to have it so I'm not so dependent on Seamonkey.  I want
    something, Dovecote for example, that will fetch new emails from gmail,
    or any other service if I move, and also allow me to send emails as
    well.  The actual emails tho would be here on my puter, as they are now
    but at the moment depends on Seamonkey. 

    Seamonkey seems to be on its last legs.  It's bad enough that it isn't maintained much in the tree but I don't think upstream is keeping things working either.  It needs a rewrite sort of like Firefox did.  Finding
    or updating add-ons for Seamonkey is almost non-existant.  Some add-ons haven't been updated in ages or are not even available at all.  As a
    example, I switched from Lastpass to Bitwarden almost a year ago.  I
    can't find a Bitwarden add-on for Seamonkey at all.  I'm stuck using
    Lastpass which is at a version a few years old.  There's no telling what security holes it may have.  Even the very common and popular adblock
    hasn't been updated in ages.  My concern, losing Seamonkey completely
    and losing all my emails with it.  I'd like to have a better way but I'm
    not sure I can do that.  This appears to be complicated.

    I may search for a video on this.  Maybe watching someone else do this
    will helps.  I dunno.  I got the service to start but after that, I'm clueless. 

    Thanks.

    Dale

    :-)  :-) 

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  • From Wols Lists@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 23 14:50:02 2022

    I already divide my emails into folders.  Example, any email that
    contains [gentoo-user] goes to the gentoo-user folder.  Similar for -dev etc.  I also have folders for things like banking, friends, family,
    shopping websites etc etc.  Well over 95% of my emails goes to a folder other than the general purpose inbox.  Any email that will be a regular thing gets filtered to something.  Most of what is in the inbox is
    either a one time thing or spam.  Right now, I just have it set to emtpy
    the trash, a LOT.  Clicking the unsub link is doing no good at all.
    What stupid politician came up with that idea anyway.

    My plan is to have it so I'm not so dependent on Seamonkey.  I want something, Dovecote for example, that will fetch new emails from gmail,
    or any other service if I move, and also allow me to send emails as
    well.  The actual emails tho would be here on my puter, as they are now
    but at the moment depends on Seamonkey.

    Okay, a little reading will tell you that Dovecot's mail store is
    chooseable between Maildir and mbox format. So your mail is physically
    stored on your hard drive in a totally standard format that most mail
    agents can read. I'll leave you to find WHERE Dovecot puts it, it's not
    hard :-)

    Seamonkey seems to be on its last legs.  It's bad enough that it isn't maintained much in the tree but I don't think upstream is keeping things working either.  It needs a rewrite sort of like Firefox did.  Finding
    or updating add-ons for Seamonkey is almost non-existant.  Some add-ons haven't been updated in ages or are not even available at all.  As a example, I switched from Lastpass to Bitwarden almost a year ago.  I
    can't find a Bitwarden add-on for Seamonkey at all.  I'm stuck using Lastpass which is at a version a few years old.  There's no telling what security holes it may have.  Even the very common and popular adblock
    hasn't been updated in ages.  My concern, losing Seamonkey completely
    and losing all my emails with it.  I'd like to have a better way but I'm
    not sure I can do that.  This appears to be complicated.

    Find out what Seamonkey (like Dovecot) does with its mails. If your
    Dovecot service is working, you should be able to just create an account
    in Seamonkey, tell it your computer provides an IMAP service, connect,
    and copy your emails into this account. Dovecot will then stash them in
    its cache, where you can get at them with a text editor or better.

    I may search for a video on this.  Maybe watching someone else do this
    will helps.  I dunno.  I got the service to start but after that, I'm clueless.

    Learn a bit more about mail transport, and which tools do which job.
    Then make sure you're not using the wrong tool - like asking Postie to
    drive a delivery truck ...

    Okay lets start at the beginning:

    An MTA (Postfix, qmail, sendmail) transfers bulk mail between Post
    Offices like gmail.com, yahoo.de, youngman.org.uk. That's over port 25.
    They then dump it into a PO Box.

    You now have two choices. You need a mail client (mutt, thunderbird,
    seamonkey, Eudora, etc) or a web client. And you can read your email
    over one of three different protocols.

    A mail client using POP is like you going to the Post Office (or postie
    coming to you) and transferring all your mail from the post office to
    your front door.

    A mail client using IMAP is like you going to your PO Box at the post
    office, and treating it like a reading room, reading your mail and
    leaving it behind it the box when you go.

    A web browser using http is pretty much the same as a mail client with IMAP.

    Now the big question is, is your mail client running on the same server
    as the post office? If it is, and you are storing mail locally in your
    account, a Mail Forwarding Agent typically collects it on your behalf
    (like postie) from the PO Box and dumps it in your account for your mail
    client to find. Otherwise, your mail client has to reach out and fetch
    it with POP.

    If your mail client is using IMAP, it will often cache your email much
    like if you were using POP, but it leaves the master copy in the Post
    Office. Think of IMAP as the counter clerk looking after your mail / PO
    Box for you.

    If you want to have a local post office, and read your mail with a web
    client, you will need a mail web server - I believe squirrelmail is one
    such.

    So if you're worried about the integrity of your mail, you need to worry
    about where and how it is stored. And if you are using SeaMonkey as an
    IMAP client, it does NOT have the master copy. If you lost SeaMonkey,
    you just need a different client and the data will still be there.

    That's why I use thunderbird as my IMAP client, and move my email from
    my cloud "youngman.org.uk" server to my local dovecot IMAP server "youngman.org.uk". So now my email is cached in thunderbird, and stored
    in dovecot. And because I know dovecot uses industry-standard mail
    storage, should anything happen to that I can just import it into any
    other tool that understands it.

    You need to know which tool does what, and which tool you're looking for.

    Cheers,
    Wol

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  • From Frank Steinmetzger@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 23 14:40:02 2022
    Am Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 06:29:06AM -0600 schrieb Dale:

    Just point your email client at dovecot. Or rather, create an account,
    in your mail client, that points at your dovecot server. Bingo, one
    empty IMAP mail account.

    I was hoping to use a web browser like Firefox to access my email.

    That would require the setup of a webmail client, like roundcube or horde. Firefox is just the display layer, the actual mail client is the webmail software, which connects to the mail server and generates the human-readable stuff.

    --
    Grüße | Greetings | Qapla’
    Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

    Only in the encyclopedia the world is in order from A to Z.

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