• Re: netinst ppc64 2022-03-24 fails to install GRUB boot loader

    From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 28 00:50:01 2022
    On Mar 28, 2022, at 12:15 AM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote:

    
    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Could be that the hfsprogs-udeb package is missing on the ISO.

    Try installing with the 32-bit powerpc image.

    Adrian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to John Paul Adrian Glaubitz on Mon Mar 28 00:50:01 2022
    On 3/27/22 18:40, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:


    On Mar 28, 2022, at 12:15 AM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote: >>
    
    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Could be that the hfsprogs-udeb package is missing on the ISO.

    Try installing with the 32-bit powerpc image.



    Why would I want the 32bit installer ?
    Just to test if the package is missing there also?


    --
    Dennis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to John Paul Adrian Glaubitz on Mon Mar 28 01:20:01 2022
    On 3/27/22 18:40, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:


    On Mar 28, 2022, at 12:15 AM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote: >>
    
    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Could be that the hfsprogs-udeb package is missing on the ISO.

    Try installing with the 32-bit powerpc image.

    Adrian

    OKay I will dd nuke the sda and sdb disks in this G5 and start up the
    powerpc netinst. Will report back at some point.


    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to Ken Cunningham on Mon Mar 28 04:00:01 2022
    On 3/27/22 21:34, Ken Cunningham wrote:


    On Mar 27, 2022, at 6:10 PM, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Ugfqj1ank

    Use the 32-bit version of grubfix32.sh, even on the 64-bit install.
    Use /dev/sda2 instead of /dev/sda3 when fixing grub.

    Jeff


    FYI Adrian’s ISO works perfectly for me on both 32 bit and 64 bit systems.

    There are (far too) many alternate ways of installing debian floating around, but I think the only method we should suggest is the one sanctioned here, as all the others lead to mayhem, IMHO.

    Ken

    I can report that the 32-bit powerpc netinst presents me with a GRUB
    menu and then "default install" leads to total failure. I took a picture
    as there was no other option while staring at a big white console with
    strange messages about invalid memory access.

    The 64bit netinst seems to work fine until we get to the GRUB install
    stage and perhaps the previous syslog and partman files I submitted
    will shed some light. Otherwise a very stable machine that usually
    just runs fine is now quite dead until further notice.


    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeffrey Walton@21:1/5 to dclarke@blastwave.org on Mon Mar 28 03:20:01 2022
    On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 6:15 PM Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote:


    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda3
    Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda3' failed.

    This is a fatal error.

    I used netcat to fetch the syslog and partman files from /var/log
    and attach them here.

    Looks like the HFS boot partition was never formatted :

    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Installing grub on '/dev/sda3'
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: grub-install does not support --no-floppy
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Running chroot /target
    grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: Installing for powerpc-ieee1275 platform.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: grub-install: error: filesystem on
    /boot/grub is neither HFS nor HFS+.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: error: Running 'grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force failed.
    .
    .
    .
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-mMar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Installing
    grub on '/dev/sda3'
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: grub-install does not support --no-floppy
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Running chroot /target
    grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: Installing for powerpc-ieee1275 platform.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: grub-install: error: filesystem on
    /boot/grub is neither HFS nor HFS+.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: error: Running 'grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub -Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Installing grub on '/dev/sda3'
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: grub-install does not support --no-floppy
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Running chroot /target
    grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: Installing for powerpc-ieee1275 platform.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: grub-install: error: filesystem on
    /boot/grub is neither HFS nor HFS+.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: error: Running 'grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force failed.
    .
    .
    .
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: grub-install does not support --no-floppy
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: info: Running chroot /target
    grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force
    Mar 27 21:57:35 grub-installer: Installing for powerpc-ieee1275 platform.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: grub-install: error: filesystem on
    /boot/grub is neither HFS nor HFS+.
    Mar 27 21:57:36 grub-installer: error: Running 'grub-install --macppc-directory=/boot/grub --no-nvram --force failed.
    .
    .
    .
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-menu[292]: (process:646): Volume group "sda" not
    found
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-menu[292]: (process:646): Cannot process volume
    group sda
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-menu[292]: (process:646): dpkg-divert: warning: diverting file '/sbin/start-stop-daemon' from an Essential package with rename is dangerous, use --no-rename
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-menu[292]: (process:646): dpkg-divert: warning: diverting file '/sbin/start-stop-daemon' from an Essential package with rename is dangerous, use --no-rename
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-menu[292]: WARNING **: Configuring 'grub-installer' failed with error code 1
    Mar 27 21:59:13 main-menu[292]: WARNING **: Menu item 'grub-installer' failed.
    se --no-rename

    Not sure what to make of that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Ugfqj1ank

    Use the 32-bit version of grubfix32.sh, even on the 64-bit install.
    Use /dev/sda2 instead of /dev/sda3 when fixing grub.

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Cunningham@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 28 03:40:01 2022
    On Mar 27, 2022, at 6:10 PM, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Ugfqj1ank

    Use the 32-bit version of grubfix32.sh, even on the 64-bit install.
    Use /dev/sda2 instead of /dev/sda3 when fixing grub.

    Jeff


    FYI Adrian’s ISO works perfectly for me on both 32 bit and 64 bit systems.

    There are (far too) many alternate ways of installing debian floating around, but I think the only method we should suggest is the one sanctioned here, as all the others lead to mayhem, IMHO.

    Ken

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to Ken Cunningham on Mon Mar 28 05:10:01 2022
    On 3/27/22 22:25, Ken Cunningham wrote:
    Your log said that you saw this:

    grub-install: error: filesystem on /boot/grub is neither HFS nor HFS+

    I have no idea what the filesystem on /boot/grub might be, but it should be HFS or HFS+ for this to work.

    So, assuming you are using the blessed ISO and no other, what I would do is start fresh.

    eg, mount the drive from a different macOS system using Firewire mode, delete all the existing partitions on the drive using Disk Utility, and then reboot the system using the CD, holding down the “C” key during boot.

    After it boots, let it have the entire disc, and let all the defaults be the defaults.

    That should work. If it doesn’t work, time for a new log I guess.

    I have already used dd from a shell prompt to wipe out significant
    sections[1] of sda and sdb. The netinst installer then fails to install
    GRUB with absolutely no valid reason. I have been doing this sort of
    testing for years. What that same machine. I know that the netinst is
    likely at fault and will simply wait a while. For whatever reasons the
    boot partition was not formatted. No idea why.

    Dennis

    [1] dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=4096 count=16384

    That is more than enough to clear out partition tables etc.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to Stan Johnson on Mon Mar 28 05:10:01 2022
    On 3/27/22 22:25, Stan Johnson wrote:
    On 3/27/22 7:56 PM, Dennis Clarke wrote:
    ...

    The 64bit netinst seems to work fine until we get to the GRUB install
    stage and perhaps the previous syslog and partman files I submitted
    will shed some light. Otherwise a very stable machine that usually
    just runs fine is now quite dead until further notice.



    I don't know whether this will help, but if you are able to boot Mac OS
    X from an external firewire drive, or even a Mac OS X installation CD
    (go to the Utility menu)

    Sorry. I have never seen Mac OS X. The last time I was using an Apple OS
    it was on a thing called a Quadra and there was a thing called the
    finder. That was 1994 I think. It was a great machine too. Awesome
    music player on it but the whole AppleTalk protocol to a Netware server
    was just a nasty mess. Even worse with Token Ring inside an IBM shop :)



    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ken Cunningham@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 28 04:30:01 2022
    Your log said that you saw this:

    grub-install: error: filesystem on /boot/grub is neither HFS nor HFS+

    I have no idea what the filesystem on /boot/grub might be, but it should be HFS or HFS+ for this to work.

    So, assuming you are using the blessed ISO and no other, what I would do is start fresh.

    eg, mount the drive from a different macOS system using Firewire mode, delete all the existing partitions on the drive using Disk Utility, and then reboot the system using the CD, holding down the “C” key during boot.

    After it boots, let it have the entire disc, and let all the defaults be the defaults.

    That should work. If it doesn’t work, time for a new log I guess.

    Ken




    On Mar 27, 2022, at 6:56 PM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote:

    On 3/27/22 21:34, Ken Cunningham wrote:
    On Mar 27, 2022, at 6:10 PM, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Ugfqj1ank

    Use the 32-bit version of grubfix32.sh, even on the 64-bit install.
    Use /dev/sda2 instead of /dev/sda3 when fixing grub.

    Jeff

    FYI Adrian’s ISO works perfectly for me on both 32 bit and 64 bit systems. >> There are (far too) many alternate ways of installing debian floating around, but I think the only method we should suggest is the one sanctioned here, as all the others lead to mayhem, IMHO.
    Ken

    I can report that the 32-bit powerpc netinst presents me with a GRUB
    menu and then "default install" leads to total failure. I took a picture
    as there was no other option while staring at a big white console with strange messages about invalid memory access.

    The 64bit netinst seems to work fine until we get to the GRUB install
    stage and perhaps the previous syslog and partman files I submitted
    will shed some light. Otherwise a very stable machine that usually
    just runs fine is now quite dead until further notice.


    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 28 07:50:01 2022
    On Mar 28, 2022, at 3:57 AM, Dennis Clarke <dclarke@blastwave.org> wrote:

    I can report that the 32-bit powerpc netinst presents me with a GRUB
    menu and then "default install" leads to total failure. I took a picture
    as there was no other option while staring at a big white console with strange messages about invalid memory access.

    The 64bit netinst seems to work fine until we get to the GRUB install
    stage and perhaps the previous syslog and partman files I submitted
    will shed some light. Otherwise a very stable machine that usually
    just runs fine is now quite dead until further notice.

    I will create new images later today and make sure the 64-bit image is correct.

    There is no need to rely on random hacks from the internet when I just need to rebuild the images.

    Adrian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to Dennis Clarke on Mon Mar 28 08:00:01 2022
    Hello!

    On 3/28/22 00:14, Dennis Clarke wrote:

    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda3
    Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda3' failed.

    This is a fatal error.

    I used netcat to fetch the syslog and partman files from /var/log
    and attach them here.

    Looks like the HFS boot partition was never formatted :

    Did you actually verify that by checking whether there was an HFS filesystem created and mounted to /target/boot/grub after the partitioning step?

    I checked the ppc64 image, it contains the necessary packages and I don't see
    a reason why the installation shouldn't work unless the HFS partition was intentionally removed. But in that case, the installer should warn you.

    I don't see a reason at the moment why your particular problem should occur.

    Adrian

    --
    .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
    : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
    `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
    `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to Ken Cunningham on Mon Mar 28 08:40:01 2022
    Hi Ken!

    On 3/28/22 03:34, Ken Cunningham wrote:
    FYI Adrian’s ISO works perfectly for me on both 32 bit and 64 bit systems.

    Did you test the latest 64-bit image on a 64-bit machine?

    Looking at the image, I'm very confident it should work and I have not yet figured out what Dennis did that the GRUB installation would fail.

    There are (far too) many alternate ways of installing debian floating around, but I think the only method we should suggest is the one sanctioned here,
    as all the others lead to mayhem, IMHO.

    I wished those people would reach out to me. That way, we would have been able to tackle the issues together and probably saved a lot of time.

    Adrian

    --
    .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
    : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
    `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
    `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to Jeffrey Walton on Mon Mar 28 08:40:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 03:10, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-Ugfqj1ank

    Use the 32-bit version of grubfix32.sh, even on the 64-bit install.
    Use /dev/sda2 instead of /dev/sda3 when fixing grub.

    This guy could have contacted me instead of creating a video which
    shows how to apply an obscure hack to fix GRUB.

    Adrian

    --
    .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
    : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
    `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
    `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to John Paul Adrian Glaubitz on Mon Mar 28 09:00:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 01:59, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
    Hello!

    On 3/28/22 00:14, Dennis Clarke wrote:

    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda3
    Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda3' failed.

    This is a fatal error.

    I used netcat to fetch the syslog and partman files from /var/log
    and attach them here.

    Looks like the HFS boot partition was never formatted :

    Did you actually verify that by checking whether there was an HFS filesystem created and mounted to /target/boot/grub after the partitioning step?


    Let me try again. I am just as baffled. This usually is a slam dunk
    trivial process. Really we have been through all of this over and over
    and over and we are way past the HFS tools issues from last year.

    I checked the ppc64 image, it contains the necessary packages and I don't see a reason why the installation shouldn't work unless the HFS partition was intentionally removed. But in that case, the installer should warn you.


    Well, now is a good time for me to fire up the machine and give it
    another try. However I will use a shell to dd nuke the sda and sdb
    disks such that the partition step sees fresh unformatted disks.


    I don't see a reason at the moment why your particular problem should occur.

    Me neither :\





    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to John Paul Adrian Glaubitz on Mon Mar 28 09:40:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 03:23, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
    On 3/28/22 09:18, Dennis Clarke wrote:
    I can only guess that the partition step worked :

    https://i.imgur.com/izFmDCe.png

    Did you actually switch to a second console and checked there is an
    HFS partition, i.e. by running:

    # mount | grep hfs

    Just tried that. Sorry. Nothing there.

    Also, same error as before the GRUB boot loader will not install.


    However this is exactly what I saw the first time I tried.

    Why is the background red? What did you do?


    I have never seen any other color on the console during install. Ever.



    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to John Paul Adrian Glaubitz on Mon Mar 28 09:20:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 01:59, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
    Hello!

    On 3/28/22 00:14, Dennis Clarke wrote:

    I just the normal process of booting the netinst DVD image and used
    the default NOT-expert menu option. I see the usual message :

    Unable to install GRUB in /dev/sda3
    Executing 'grub-install /dev/sda3' failed.

    This is a fatal error.

    I used netcat to fetch the syslog and partman files from /var/log
    and attach them here.

    Looks like the HFS boot partition was never formatted :

    Did you actually verify that by checking whether there was an HFS filesystem created and mounted to /target/boot/grub after the partitioning step?


    I can only guess that the partition step worked :

    https://i.imgur.com/izFmDCe.png

    However this is exactly what I saw the first time I tried.

    Dennis

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to Dennis Clarke on Mon Mar 28 09:30:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 09:18, Dennis Clarke wrote:
    I can only guess that the partition step worked :

    https://i.imgur.com/izFmDCe.png

    Did you actually switch to a second console and checked there is an
    HFS partition, i.e. by running:

    # mount | grep hfs

    However this is exactly what I saw the first time I tried.

    Why is the background red? What did you do?

    Adrian

    --
    .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
    : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
    `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
    `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to All on Mon Mar 28 10:00:01 2022

    Also very strange. It should be blue.

    However the machine runs great. Stable as a rock. When we get an install
    done of course. ha ha


    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dennis Clarke@21:1/5 to John Paul Adrian Glaubitz on Mon Mar 28 10:00:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 03:23, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
    On 3/28/22 09:18, Dennis Clarke wrote:
    I can only guess that the partition step worked :

    https://i.imgur.com/izFmDCe.png

    Did you actually switch to a second console and checked there is an
    HFS partition, i.e. by running:

    # mount | grep hfs

    Actually I wiped both disks and went back to the partition stage and
    used sdb ( why not ? ) where I see good results :

    https://i.imgur.com/wfCbQLQ.png

    However I then get a nice blue failure :

    https://i.imgur.com/0UpvwNC.png

    For whatever reasons the installer is always red and only turns blue
    when there is an error condition.


    --
    Dennis Clarke
    RISC-V/SPARC/PPC/ARM/CISC
    UNIX and Linux spoken
    GreyBeard and suspenders optional

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to Dennis Clarke on Mon Mar 28 10:10:01 2022
    On 3/28/22 09:56, Dennis Clarke wrote:

    Can you try with one of the hard drives removed?

    That would be somewhat difficult tonight. I have it in a stack with
    another silver Power_Xeon_Mac under it and a system running on top of it
    etc etc etc. However I can shut things down and begin the dusty process
    if we really need to rip out the second disk.

    Since I cannot see any obvious reason why the installation fails on your system,
    we need to start debugging and that will involve removing the second hard disk.

    I simply don't see why GRUB installation should fail when your previous screenshot
    proved that /dev/sdb2 was formatted with HFS and mounted to /target/boot/grub [1].

    It must succeed at this point. If it doesn't, I want to see the exact error message
    from the log.

    Adrian

    [1] https://i.imgur.com/wfCbQLQ.png

    --
    .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
    : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
    `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
    `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)