I am noticing there is a tremendous amount of misinformation and outright confusion floating around about installing debian (current) on PowerPC Apple systems. Current walkthroughs are telling people what seems to me to be the completely wrong way togo about things. Older debian and other walkthroughs are no longer valid. People are following recipes from 2, 3, or 8 years ago, adding all the wrong apt sources and installing software from all over the place, thinking they are following the current
Other distros are dropping PowerPC Apple systems, and people are looking for direction.
Given that this list is the defacto standard for the source of such info, I wonder if someone might agree to maintain a once-monthly “This is how…” FAQ or similar.
I am noticing there is a tremendous amount of misinformation and outright confusion floating
around about installing debian (current) on PowerPC Apple systems. Current walkthroughs are
telling people what seems to me to be the completely wrong way to go about things. Older
debian and other walkthroughs are no longer valid. People are following recipes from 2,
3, or 8 years ago, adding all the wrong apt sources and installing software from all over
the place, thinking they are following the current recommendations, which it seems to me,
they are not.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2021/12/msg00032.html
Other distros are dropping PowerPC Apple systems, and people are looking for direction.
Given that this list is the defacto standard for the source of such info, I wonder if
someone might agree to maintain a once-monthly “This is how…” FAQ or similar.
1. which exact iso is the current recommended install iso for Apple PowerPC machines
2. whether to use 64bit on G5s or not
3. what is the current recommended setup for apt sources
4. how to get the common video cards working
5. how to get the b43 wifi working
6. how to get the sound working
Ideally something really brief, and recipe-like, for many new users to follow. All
this info is out there, but in different places and not easy to cull into one spot.
This might solve a great number of questions out there, and bring in happy new users!
On Jan 31, 2022, at 1:19 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
Hi Ken!
On 1/30/22 22:29, Ken Cunningham wrote:
I am noticing there is a tremendous amount of misinformation and outright confusion floating
around about installing debian (current) on PowerPC Apple systems. Current walkthroughs are
telling people what seems to me to be the completely wrong way to go about things. Older
debian and other walkthroughs are no longer valid. People are following recipes from 2,
3, or 8 years ago, adding all the wrong apt sources and installing software from all over
the place, thinking they are following the current recommendations, which it seems to me,
they are not.
Since writing documentation involves quite some work, I can't currently do that. So, if anyone
wants to help, let me know. But also keep in mind that there are still some issues left to
be fixed in the installation system on Apple PowerMac.
I have explained a bit on the background here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2021/12/msg00032.html
Other distros are dropping PowerPC Apple systems, and people are looking for direction.
Given that this list is the defacto standard for the source of such info, I wonder if
someone might agree to maintain a once-monthly “This is how…” FAQ or similar.
Well, it always involves time and effort, there is no free lunch :-).
1. which exact iso is the current recommended install iso for Apple PowerPC machines
You can search the mailing list to find the images where people reported that they work.
2. whether to use 64bit on G5s or not
I'm not sure why this is a question? The ppc64 port is in very good shape and runs perfectly
find on the PowerMac G5. I don't see any reason not to use it.
3. what is the current recommended setup for apt sources
# binary default
deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ unstable main
deb http://incoming.ports.debian.org/buildd/ unstable main
deb http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/ unreleased main
# source
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable main
deb-src http://incoming.debian.org/debian-buildd/ buildd-unstable main
4. how to get the common video cards working
That depends on your video card.
5. how to get the b43 wifi working
You have to use the b43-fwcutter tool.
6. how to get the sound working
Depends on your hardware. Sound works out of the box on my iBook G4.
Ideally something really brief, and recipe-like, for many new users to follow. All
this info is out there, but in different places and not easy to cull into one spot.
Well, the driver-related questions are not specific to PowerMacs. For example, if you
use an ATI/AMD video card, you need the firmware on both x86 and PowerPC machines and
you install them the same way.
This might solve a great number of questions out there, and bring in happy new users!
But it means time and effort that needs to be spent. Especially, since several of these
questions are not specific to PowerPC.
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 11:09 AM Ken Cunningham <ken.cunningham.webuse@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks.I'd be happy to help with writing. I enjoy writing docs for some reason.
I’m in great shape, everything running fairly well on my machines.
But most people have no idea even what boot iso to use, it seems, from the 1,200 questions over and over and over about it on the Linux on PowerPC Macs facebook group (and the 1,199 wrong answers :> ).
Perhaps someone with writing skills and interest might be interested, in time.
I think the problem is, Debian does not have a good strategy for dissemination of long term information for PowerPC. They have a wiki
but there's little information about PowerPC. Instead, Debian places
the long term information on static web pages that are woefully out of
date. No one can edit the web pages except Debian admins, and they
don't do it. (I tried to get them to update it a couple of years ago.
It went nowhere).
A FAQ might be a good first step to triage the problem.
But as Adrian points out, the people with the access and the knowledge
don't have time to tend to it. That problem begs a crowd source
solution like a wiki. But then we are back to the problem of using
static web pages instead of a wiki.
Information management is hard.
Jeff
Thanks.
I’m in great shape, everything running fairly well on my machines.
But most people have no idea even what boot iso to use, it seems, from the 1,200 questions over and over and over about it on the Linux on PowerPC Macs facebook group (and the 1,199 wrong answers :> ).
Perhaps someone with writing skills and interest might be interested, in time.
You'd be perfect, Jeff, if you have the inclination.
Thing is, you could write it, Adrian could do a few technical
corrections when he has time if he sees something glaring go past, and
we would all see it go by once a month and could chime in with tweaks
we discovered, if useful.
I suspect we'd all learn something in the process.
Ken
On 2022-01-31 08:16, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 11:09 AM Ken Cunningham
<ken.cunningham.webuse@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks.I'd be happy to help with writing. I enjoy writing docs for some reason.
I’m in great shape, everything running fairly well on my machines.
But most people have no idea even what boot iso to use, it seems,
from the 1,200 questions over and over and over about it on the
Linux on PowerPC Macs facebook group (and the 1,199 wrong answers :> ).
Perhaps someone with writing skills and interest might be
interested, in time.
I think the problem is, Debian does not have a good strategy for
dissemination of long term information for PowerPC. They have a wiki
but there's little information about PowerPC. Instead, Debian places
the long term information on static web pages that are woefully out of
date. No one can edit the web pages except Debian admins, and they
don't do it. (I tried to get them to update it a couple of years ago.
It went nowhere).
A FAQ might be a good first step to triage the problem.
But as Adrian points out, the people with the access and the knowledge
don't have time to tend to it. That problem begs a crowd source
solution like a wiki. But then we are back to the problem of using
static web pages instead of a wiki.
Information management is hard.
Jeff
On 1/31/22 17:09, Ken Cunningham wrote:
But most people have no idea even what boot iso to use, it seems, from the 1,200 questions
over and over and over about it on the Linux on PowerPC Macs facebook group (and the 1,199
wrong answers :> ).
As I explained in [1], there is a reason why I am currently not yet producing working images
every time. Getting all the necessary bits and pieces into place requires lots of efforts due
to the amount of necessary quality assurance.
But most people have no idea even what boot iso to use, it seems, from the 1,200 questions
over and over and over about it on the Linux on PowerPC Macs facebook group (and the 1,199
wrong answers :> ).
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2021/12/msg00032.html
I think the problem is, Debian does not have a good strategy for dissemination of long term information for PowerPC. They have a wiki
but there's little information about PowerPC. Instead, Debian places
the long term information on static web pages that are woefully out of
date. No one can edit the web pages except Debian admins, and they
don't do it. (I tried to get them to update it a couple of years ago.
It went nowhere).
A FAQ might be a good first step to triage the problem.
But as Adrian points out, the people with the access and the knowledge
don't have time to tend to it. That problem begs a crowd source
solution like a wiki. But then we are back to the problem of using
static web pages instead of a wiki.
Hello Ken!
On 1/31/22 17:09, Ken Cunningham wrote:
But most people have no idea even what boot iso to use, it seems, from the 1,200 questionsAs I explained in [1], there is a reason why I am currently not yet producing working images
over and over and over about it on the Linux on PowerPC Macs facebook group (and the 1,199
wrong answers :> ).
every time. Getting all the necessary bits and pieces into place requires lots of efforts due
to the amount of necessary quality assurance.
I know that it's a frustrating situation, but configuring the bootloader on Apple PowerMacs is
unfortunately much more complicated than on computers with UEFI or U-Boot, for example.
Adrian
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2021/12/msg00032.html
Indeed. I'm certainly familiar with all that, but I can tell you a great many are not.
This would be exactly the reason for the FAQ (or similar).
The Facebook users (mostly) had no idea this mailing list existed, until I started
sending everyone here. But even then, someone coming here will not easily see that
that they need to find a special iso to install debian on PowerPC Macs, or which one
it is.
All your excellent work deserves to be used! So make it easier for people, is all I'm about here.
All your excellent work deserves to be used! So make it easier for
people, is all I'm about here.
On Feb 1, 2022, at 3:44 PM, Riccardo Mottola <riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:
Hi Ken,
Ken Cunningham wrote:
All your excellent work deserves to be used! So make it easier for
people, is all I'm about here.
I understand where you are. I have long experience with PPC and Linux
and yet an install was not easy, depending on the flux of packages
We could start with something very simple, a single email with most annotations. Some stuff should change rarely: grub, partitioning main
net cards. And, of course the "current best working ISOs" for 32bit and 64bit.
We shall write it, not Adrian, who, at most, can comment/fix it
Riccardo
Sysop: | Keyop |
---|---|
Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
Users: | 293 |
Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
Uptime: | 238:52:49 |
Calls: | 6,624 |
Files: | 12,172 |
Messages: | 5,319,946 |