Hi!

On Sat, 2022-10-08 at 18:14:38 +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:

while updating the German man page translation I could not really
understand one paragraph, could you explain it more verbosely?

Hmm, then that probably means the English text needs to be rewritten
or improved. Ok let me try first to explain here somewhat, and then I
can try to update the man page:

"The file should be named according to the vendor name. The usual convention "
"is to name the vendor file using the vendor name in all lowercase, but some "
"variation is permitted. Namely, non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-" "z0-9]>’) are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’),

and lower-cased, as-is, lower-cased "
"then capitalized and capitalized (since dpkg 1.21.10).

This means that the code will try the following combinations, after
having remapped the non-alphanum chars:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb-some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB-Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb-some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB-Some-OS

In addition, for "
"historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be " "tried first as-is with no remapping, and then by remapping spaces to dashes "
"(‘B<->’). But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle."

This means they will be tried then first w/o remapping as follows:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some OS

And subsequently by only remapping spaces to dashes:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some-OS

Was the problem with just the "as-is" or how the formulation of casing
is listed?

Thanks,
Guillem

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Hello Guillem,
while updating the German man page translation I could not really
understand one paragraph, could you explain it more verbosely?

"The file should be named according to the vendor name. The usual convention " "is to name the vendor file using the vendor name in all lowercase, but some " "variation is permitted. Namely, non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-" "z0-9]>’) are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’), and lower-cased, as-is, lower-cased "
"then capitalized and capitalized (since dpkg 1.21.10). In addition, for " "historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be " "tried first as-is with no remapping, and then by remapping spaces to dashes " "(‘B<->’). But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle."

I'm fine until:
… mapped to dashes (‘B<->’)

Then we have string of alphanumeric characters and dashes. What
exactly happens to this string? Could you give an example, e.g. how to transform the (fictious) string
aA-bB

This includes the wording "as is" because either you keep a character
"as is" or you transform it, e.g. by changing the capitalization(?)

Thanks for any explanation!

Greetings

Helge

--
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann debian@helgefjell.de
Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred
Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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Hello Guillem,
On Sat, Oct 08, 2022 at 06:42:46PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:

Hi!

On Sat, 2022-10-08 at 18:14:38 +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:

while updating the German man page translation I could not really understand one paragraph, could you explain it more verbosely?

Hmm, then that probably means the English text needs to be rewritten
or improved. Ok let me try first to explain here somewhat, and then I
can try to update the man page:

"The file should be named according to the vendor name. The usual convention "
"is to name the vendor file using the vendor name in all lowercase, but some "
"variation is permitted. Namely, non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-"
"z0-9]>’) are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’),

and lower-cased, as-is, lower-cased "
"then capitalized and capitalized (since dpkg 1.21.10).

This means that the code will try the following combinations, after
having remapped the non-alphanum chars:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb-some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB-Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb-some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB-Some-OS

Ok, so I understand the 2nd sentence as follows (I write it verbose):
Namely, the following variations are accepted as well:
a) non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-z0-9]>’) in the vendor name
are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’) and all letters are lower-cased
b) the vendor name is kept as it is
c) all letters in the vendor name are lower cased and then first letter
is capitalized
d) all letters (?) in the vendor name are capitalized
(since dpkg 1.21.10).

In addition, for "
"historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be "
"tried first as-is with no remapping, and then by remapping spaces to dashes "
"(‘B<->’). But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle."

This means they will be tried then first w/o remapping as follows:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some OS

And subsequently by only remapping spaces to dashes:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some-OS

Was the problem with just the "as-is" or how the formulation of casing
is listed?

Your wording is sometims very terse and assigning the virtual () (i.e.
which ands and ors belong to each other) is sometime tricky, and yes,
the "as is" made me wonder about "remapping". But of course, a 1:1
mapping is a mapping as well'. (and the case c) I could not see from
your text alone at all).

And the third sentence thus reads (verbosely):
In addition, for historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be tried in the following order:
a) First no remapping (keeping the name as is)
b) Remapping spaces to dashes (‘B<->’).

But this does not match your examples, so I guess I still haven't
understood the third sentence.

Thanks for the explanations.

Greetings

Helge


--
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann debian@helgefjell.de
Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred
Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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On Sat, 2022-10-08 at 19:05:01 +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:

On Sat, Oct 08, 2022 at 06:42:46PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:

This means that the code will try the following combinations, after
having remapped the non-alphanum chars:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb-some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB-Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb-some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB-Some-OS

Ok, so I understand the 2nd sentence as follows (I write it verbose):
Namely, the following variations are accepted as well:
a) non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-z0-9]>’) in the vendor name
are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’) and all letters are lower-cased
b) the vendor name is kept as it is

Non-alphanumeric mapped to dashes, then b)

c) all letters in the vendor name are lower cased and then first letter
is capitalized

Non-alphanumeric mapped to dashes, then c)

d) all letters (?) in the vendor name are capitalized
(since dpkg 1.21.10).

Non-alphanumeric mapped to dashes, then only the first letter is
upper-cased (which I understand to be synonymous with capitalizing).

In addition, for "
"historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be "
"tried first as-is with no remapping, and then by remapping spaces to dashes "
"(‘B<->’). But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle."

This means they will be tried then first w/o remapping as follows:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some OS

And subsequently by only remapping spaces to dashes:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some-OS

Was the problem with just the "as-is" or how the formulation of casing
is listed?

Your wording is sometims very terse and assigning the virtual () (i.e.
which ands and ors belong to each other) is sometime tricky,

Sorry! :) I guess I tend to try to avoid what I perceive as
unnecessary repetition, and expressing lists seems sometimes
complicated.

and yes,
the "as is" made me wonder about "remapping". But of course, a 1:1
mapping is a mapping as well'. (and the case c) I could not see from
your text alone at all).

And the third sentence thus reads (verbosely):
In addition, for historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be tried in the following order:
a) First no remapping (keeping the name as is)
b) Remapping spaces to dashes (‘B<->’).

These would be, instead of the first phase of remapping
non-alphanumeric to dashes, the a) and b) here would be applied, then
the a/b/c/d from above would be repeated (for each of these two
iterations.

But this does not match your examples, so I guess I still haven't
understood the third sentence.

Ok, I've tried to reword the man page, how about the following, which introduced some repetition (which will eventually go away), and should hopefully be more clear? Otherwise we can iterate until it does. :)

,---
The file should be named according to the vendor name.
The usual convention is to name the vendor file using the vendor name
in all lowercase, but some variation is permitted.
Namely (since dpkg 1.21.10), first, non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-z0-9]>’) are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’), then the resulting name will be tried in sequence by lower-casing it, as-is, lower-casing
then capitalizing (that is upper-casing the first character), and only capitalizing.
In addition, for historical and backwards compatibility, the name will
be tried as-is without non-alphanumeric characters remapping, then
the resulting name be tried in sequence by lower-casing it, as-is,
lower-casing then capitalizing, and only capitalizing.
And finally the name will be tried by remapping spaces to dashes (‘B<->’), then the resulting name will be tried in sequence by lower-casing it,
as-is, lower-casing then capitalizing, and only capitalizing.
But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle.
`---

Thanks,
Guillem

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Hello Guillem,
On Sat, Oct 08, 2022 at 07:38:21PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:

On Sat, 2022-10-08 at 19:05:01 +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote:

On Sat, Oct 08, 2022 at 06:42:46PM +0200, Guillem Jover wrote:

This means that the code will try the following combinations, after having remapped the non-alphanum chars:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb-some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB-Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb-some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB-Some-OS

Ok, so I understand the 2nd sentence as follows (I write it verbose): Namely, the following variations are accepted as well:
a) non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-z0-9]>’) in the vendor name
are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’) and all letters are lower-cased
b) the vendor name is kept as it is

Non-alphanumeric mapped to dashes, then b)

c) all letters in the vendor name are lower cased and then first letter
is capitalized

Non-alphanumeric mapped to dashes, then c)

d) all letters (?) in the vendor name are capitalized
(since dpkg 1.21.10).

Non-alphanumeric mapped to dashes, then only the first letter is
upper-cased (which I understand to be synonymous with capitalizing).

I'm not a native speaker either, but capitalizing seems fine.

In addition, for "
"historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be "
"tried first as-is with no remapping, and then by remapping spaces to dashes "
"(‘B<->’). But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle."

This means they will be tried then first w/o remapping as follows:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some OS

And subsequently by only remapping spaces to dashes:

lower-cased: aA-bB%Some OS → aa-bb%some-os
as-is: aA-bB%Some OS → aA-bB%Some-OS
lower-cased and capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → Aa-bb%some-os
capitalized: aA-bB%Some OS → AA-bB%Some-OS

Was the problem with just the "as-is" or how the formulation of casing
is listed?

Your wording is sometims very terse and assigning the virtual () (i.e. which ands and ors belong to each other) is sometime tricky,

Sorry! :) I guess I tend to try to avoid what I perceive as
unnecessary repetition, and expressing lists seems sometimes
complicated.

and yes,
the "as is" made me wonder about "remapping". But of course, a 1:1
mapping is a mapping as well'. (and the case c) I could not see from
your text alone at all).

And the third sentence thus reads (verbosely):
In addition, for historical and backwards compatibility, the above casing attempts will be tried in the following order:
a) First no remapping (keeping the name as is)
b) Remapping spaces to dashes (‘B<->’).

These would be, instead of the first phase of remapping
non-alphanumeric to dashes, the a) and b) here would be applied, then
the a/b/c/d from above would be repeated (for each of these two
iterations.

But this does not match your examples, so I guess I still haven't understood the third sentence.

Ok, I've tried to reword the man page, how about the following, which introduced some repetition (which will eventually go away), and should hopefully be more clear? Otherwise we can iterate until it does. :)

,---
The file should be named according to the vendor name.
The usual convention is to name the vendor file using the vendor name
in all lowercase, but some variation is permitted.
Namely (since dpkg 1.21.10), first, non-alphanumeric characters (‘B<[^A-Za-z0-9]>’) are mapped to dashes (‘B<->’), then the resulting name will be tried in sequence by lower-casing it, as-is, lower-casing

as → keeping it as-is

then capitalizing (that is upper-casing the first character), and only capitalizing.

capitalizing. → capitalizing it

// If you want to optimize, then you can remove the bracketed term

In addition, for historical and backwards compatibility, the name will
be tried as-is without non-alphanumeric characters remapping, then
the resulting name be tried in sequence by lower-casing it, as-is,

name be → name will be

as-is → keeping it as-is

lower-casing then capitalizing, and only capitalizing.

capitalizing. → capitalizing it.

And finally the name will be tried by remapping spaces to dashes (‘B<->’),
then the resulting name will be tried in sequence by lower-casing it,
as-is, lower-casing then capitalizing, and only capitalizing.

as-is → keeping it as-is
capitalizing. → capitalizing it.

But these will be removed during the dpkg 1.22.x release cycle.

these → these mappings

With these (editorial) additions I can translate it fine and hopefully
I understand it as well. It really helps, and bits in documentation
are cheap, so being a little more verbose in man pages is really
helpful. (And I know, some man page writers go quite the opposite
direction by repeating and extend quite a bit, but I think we are far
from this here).

Thanks for clarifying!

Greetings

Helge

--
Dr. Helge Kreutzmann debian@helgefjell.de
Dipl.-Phys. http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred
Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

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