Dear Debian,

I just tried it again, and got the same result.
If you download the standard vanilla Debian netinstall ISO, create a VBox,
and install, it works fine. I just confirmed this by downloading a fresh
one. I know it's a new one because it includes the non-free-firmware part
in the sources.list, which is new. A netinstall ISO from last week didn't mention firmware.

1st login, make user a member of sudo.
useradd mike sudo
Login as mike,
sudo pluma
as root, open & edit the /etc/apt/sources.list. Delete everything and add 2 lines ~
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
Save and close.
Now, as root or as mike,
sudo apt update ; sudo apt dist upgrade
Standard method of upgrading from vanilla to sid.
Problem is, it breaks your networking.
It loses your nic and any reference to it, any settings, any ip address ...
You cannot add something else because there is no network.
You cannot update or install anything. I sent a big email a couple of days
ago, which covered how you might work around that, but so far, it has not
been fixed.
By my reckoning, it's been 6 days now.
If my understanding is correct, then nobody anywhere can install a
vanilla Debian and upgrade to sid while this problem remains.
Yes, I am aware there are other install ISOs, there's about 80 of them.
I did find one that is a daily build of Trixie, and that has no problems, although I didn't try to upgrade it to sid. I'm rather pleased to have a working Trixie and I don't want to break it.
One (very long & tedious) way around this, I mentioned in my previous
email. It does work, but you might as well create a new Linux from Scratch. It's a lot of messing about to achieve something that should be quite straightforward.
There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that give
simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade to
sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.

Yours respectfully,

Mike

<div dir="ltr">Dear Debian,<div><br></div><div>I just tried it again, and got the same result.</div><div>If you download the standard vanilla Debian netinstall ISO, create a VBox, and install, it works fine. I just confirmed this by downloading a fresh
one. I know it&#39;s a new one because it includes the non-free-firmware part in the sources.list, which is new. A netinstall ISO from last week didn&#39;t mention firmware.</div><div><br></div><div>1st login, make user a member of sudo.</div><div>
useradd mike sudo</div><div>Login as mike, </div><div>sudo pluma</div><div>as root, open &amp; edit the /etc/apt/sources.list. Delete everything and add 2 lines ~</div><div>deb <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid
main contrib non-free-firmware<br>deb-src <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br></div><div>Save and close.</div><div>Now, as root or as mike, </div><div>sudo apt update ; sudo apt
dist upgrade</div><div>Standard method of upgrading from vanilla to sid.</div><div>Problem is, it breaks your networking.</div><div>It loses your nic and any reference to it, any settings, any ip address ...</div><div>You cannot add something else
because there is no network.</div><div>You cannot update or install anything. I sent a big email a couple of days ago, which covered how you might work around that, but so far, it has not been fixed.</div><div>By my reckoning, it&#39;s been 6 days now.</

<div>If my understanding is correct, then nobody anywhere can install a vanilla Debian and upgrade to sid while this problem remains.</div><div>Yes, I am aware there are other install ISOs, there&#39;s about 80 of them.</div><div>I did find one that

is a daily build of Trixie, and that has no problems, although I didn&#39;t try to upgrade it to sid. I&#39;m rather pleased to have a working Trixie and I don&#39;t want to break it.</div><div>One (very long &amp; tedious) way around this, I mentioned
in my previous email. It does work, but you might as well create a new Linux from Scratch. It&#39;s a lot of messing about to achieve something that should be quite straightforward.</div><div>There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that
give simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade to sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.</div><div><br></div><div>Yours respectfully,</div><div><br></div><div>Mike</div></div>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi Michael,

your problem report is a bit difficult to comment upon.

First, this is a debian users mailing list. I think nobody here will
feel that they "are" Debian.

Then, you have problems with Sid. Now, Sid is the unstable development
version of the distro. On the web page describing the different
releases, https://www.debian.org/releases/ the authors stated very
clearly that Sid might not work and even mentions disfunctional updates
as an example. They also state that users of Sid should subscribe to debian-devel-announce. My conclusion is that problems with Sid should be discussed with the developers community.


And, considering that you tackled a development release, I think it
would be useful if you provided details about the problem -- not just
the result as in "network doesn't work anymore" but rather some
observation of *why* -- which may be software packages that are
essential for networking were uninstalled  during the upgrade, or
provide binaries that do not work. Without such information it will be
hard to work on fixes.


Also, you write

There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that give simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade
to sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.

but this is not something the audience of this mailing can take
responsibility for.


If you address the right audience with your observations, the problem
you found may be fixed. Here, it's unlikely you can get better results
than pointers into other directions or just questions of "why Sid?".


Best,


Arno

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Arno Lehmann, ITS wrote:
...

Then, you have problems with Sid. Now, Sid is the unstable development version of the distro. On the web page describing the different
releases, https://www.debian.org/releases/ the authors stated very
clearly that Sid might not work and even mentions disfunctional updates
as an example. They also state that users of Sid should subscribe to debian-devel-announce. My conclusion is that problems with Sid should be discussed with the developers community.

...

on top of your comments also realise that sid and testing
are going through usr-merge changes for some time and it will
continue and things may be in an in-between-state in places
between not working and working.

i would also follow debian-devel, installer and tool-chain
lists if you are going to get into sid and testing to see
what has been being talked about.


songbird

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Dear Debian,

Minor update, it works!!!

I know I did one thing differently, which possibly influenced things, I
don't know what you guys and the team did.

First, check that the 2 remaining lines in sources.list ended with non-free-firmware, as in ~
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware


~ when I ran the dist-upgrade command, I got a couple of places where it
said something like 'Errors were encountered by dpkg in dealing with ~

linux-image-6.5.0-4-amd64 ~and~ linux-image-amd64

~ so, before rebooting, I went
sudo apt install linux-image-6.5.0-4-amd64 linux-image-amd64
~ predictably, it said something along the lines of "Those are already the newest version. What's your problem?"

I also ran sudo apt autoremove, which reclaimed a surprising amount of disk space... well over 200MB.
Then I rebooted and now it works. Yipee!!

I know something changed, because the previous dist-upgrade went chasing
1100 files. This attempt went after 1098. Two less files. Ergo, something changed ~ in addition to the non-free-*firmware*.
Thank you Debian, congratulations on your excellent work.

I remain yours gratefully,

Mike

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:24 PM Michael Thompson <kneedragon1962@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Debian,

I just tried it again, and got the same result.
If you download the standard vanilla Debian netinstall ISO, create a VBox, and install, it works fine. I just confirmed this by downloading a fresh
one. I know it's a new one because it includes the non-free-firmware part
in the sources.list, which is new. A netinstall ISO from last week didn't mention firmware.

1st login, make user a member of sudo.
useradd mike sudo
Login as mike,
sudo pluma
as root, open & edit the /etc/apt/sources.list. Delete everything and add
2 lines ~
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
Save and close.
Now, as root or as mike,
sudo apt update ; sudo apt dist upgrade
Standard method of upgrading from vanilla to sid.
Problem is, it breaks your networking.
It loses your nic and any reference to it, any settings, any ip address ... You cannot add something else because there is no network.
You cannot update or install anything. I sent a big email a couple of days ago, which covered how you might work around that, but so far, it has not been fixed.
By my reckoning, it's been 6 days now.
If my understanding is correct, then nobody anywhere can install a
vanilla Debian and upgrade to sid while this problem remains.
Yes, I am aware there are other install ISOs, there's about 80 of them.
I did find one that is a daily build of Trixie, and that has no problems, although I didn't try to upgrade it to sid. I'm rather pleased to have a working Trixie and I don't want to break it.
One (very long & tedious) way around this, I mentioned in my previous
email. It does work, but you might as well create a new Linux from Scratch. It's a lot of messing about to achieve something that should be quite straightforward.
There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that give
simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade to
sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.

Yours respectfully,

Mike

<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear Debian,<div><br></div><div>Minor update, it works!!!</div><div><br></div><div>I know I did one thing differently, which possibly influenced things, I don&#39;t know what you guys and the team did.</div><div><br></div><

First, check that the 2 remaining lines in sources.list ended with non-free-firmware, as in ~</div><div>deb <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br>deb-src <a

href="http://deb.debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>~ when I ran the dist-upgrade command, I got a couple of places where it said something
like &#39;Errors were encountered by dpkg in dealing with ~<br></div><div><br></div><div>linux-image-6.5.0-4-amd64 ~and~ linux-image-amd64<br></div><div><br></div><div>~ so, before rebooting, I went </div><div>sudo apt install  linux-image-6.5.0-4-
amd64  linux-image-amd64</div></div>~ predictably, it said something along the lines of &quot;Those are already the newest version. What&#39;s your problem?&quot;<div><br></div><div>I also ran sudo apt autoremove, which reclaimed a surprising amount of
disk space... well over 200MB.</div><div>Then I rebooted and now it works. Yipee!!</div><div><br></div><div>I know something changed, because the previous dist-upgrade went chasing 1100 files. This attempt went after 1098. Two less files. Ergo, something
changed ~ in addition to the non-free-<b>firmware</b>.</div><div>Thank you Debian, congratulations on your excellent work.</div><div><br></div><div>I remain yours gratefully,</div><div><br></div><div>Mike</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="
ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:24 PM Michael Thompson &lt;<a href="mailto:kneedragon1962@gmail.com">kneedragon1962@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Debian,<div><br></div><div>I just tried it again, and got the same result.</div><div>If you download the standard vanilla Debian netinstall ISO, create a VBox, and install, it works fine. I
just confirmed this by downloading a fresh one. I know it&#39;s a new one because it includes the non-free-firmware part in the sources.list, which is new. A netinstall ISO from last week didn&#39;t mention firmware.</div><div><br></div><div>1st login,
make user a member of sudo.</div><div>useradd mike sudo</div><div>Login as mike, </div><div>sudo pluma</div><div>as root, open &amp; edit the /etc/apt/sources.list. Delete everything and add 2 lines ~</div><div>deb <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian"
target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br>deb-src <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br></div><div>Save and close.</div><

Now, as root or as mike, </div><div>sudo apt update ; sudo apt dist upgrade</div><div>Standard method of upgrading from vanilla to sid.</div><div>Problem is, it breaks your networking.</div><div>It loses your nic and any reference to it, any

settings, any ip address ...</div><div>You cannot add something else because there is no network.</div><div>You cannot update or install anything. I sent a big email a couple of days ago, which covered how you might work around that, but so far, it has
not been fixed.</div><div>By my reckoning, it&#39;s been 6 days now.</div><div>If my understanding is correct, then nobody anywhere can install a vanilla Debian and upgrade to sid while this problem remains.</div><div>Yes, I am aware there are other
install ISOs, there&#39;s about 80 of them.</div><div>I did find one that is a daily build of Trixie, and that has no problems, although I didn&#39;t try to upgrade it to sid. I&#39;m rather pleased to have a working Trixie and I don&#39;t want to break
it.</div><div>One (very long &amp; tedious) way around this, I mentioned in my previous email. It does work, but you might as well create a new Linux from Scratch. It&#39;s a lot of messing about to achieve something that should be quite straightforward.<
/div><div>There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that give simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade to sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.</div><div><br></div><div>Yours respectfully,</div><div><

</div><div>Mike</div></div>

</blockquote></div></div></div>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Dear Debian,
Thanks for your patience.
I just went back to square one, deleted the netinstall ISO, deleted the 3
VMs I had, made a new one. I downloaded a fresh netinstall, made a new
VirtBox, and installed. One thing I did different, I checked the Mate
desktop box, but I didn't un-check the gnome box. I chose to use the
lightdm, but other than that, I have both gnome and Mate.

From that point on, I did the edit to sources.list, dist upgrade, and that worked without any evident problem.

Next, I started firefox and went to VBox, downloaded the latest version of
the Guest Additions. (Which is 458 as I write this.)
Did this ~
Install Virtualbox Guest Additions on Debian
Log into Debian (Guest OS) as root and update your software.
apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
Install required packages for building kernel modules.
apt-get install build-essential module-assistant
Prepare your system for building kernel module
m-a prepare
=============
~ and reboot.

===========
mike@debian
-----------
OS: Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid x86_64
Host: VirtualBox 1.2
Kernel: 6.5.0-4-amd64
Uptime: 1 min
Packages: 1823 (dpkg)
Shell: bash 5.2.21
Resolution: 1920x951
DE: MATE 1.26.1
WM: Metacity (Marco)
Theme: Menta [GTK2/3]
Icons: menta [GTK2/3]
Terminal: mate-terminal
Terminal Font: Monospace 15
CPU: Intel i7-6700 (4) @ 3.408GHz
GPU: 00:02.0 VMware SVGA II Adapter
Memory: 693MiB / 7938MiB
============
After a week of struggle, we appear to be back exactly where Debian sid
should be, with the possible exception of the gnome desktop. Whether that
has any bearing on the matter or not, I don't know, but it did strike me
during the install, that perhaps I should leave it in, because gnome3 is
the default desktop, so the Debs would be developing for compatibility with that first ~ Remove it, and that might break things ....

I remain gratefully yours,

Mike

On Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 1:52 AM Michael Thompson <kneedragon1962@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Debian,

Minor update, it works!!!

I know I did one thing differently, which possibly influenced things, I
don't know what you guys and the team did.

First, check that the 2 remaining lines in sources.list ended with non-free-firmware, as in ~
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware

~ when I ran the dist-upgrade command, I got a couple of places where it
said something like 'Errors were encountered by dpkg in dealing with ~

linux-image-6.5.0-4-amd64 ~and~ linux-image-amd64

~ so, before rebooting, I went
sudo apt install linux-image-6.5.0-4-amd64 linux-image-amd64
~ predictably, it said something along the lines of "Those are already the newest version. What's your problem?"

I also ran sudo apt autoremove, which reclaimed a surprising amount of
disk space... well over 200MB.
Then I rebooted and now it works. Yipee!!

I know something changed, because the previous dist-upgrade went chasing
1100 files. This attempt went after 1098. Two less files. Ergo, something changed ~ in addition to the non-free-*firmware*.
Thank you Debian, congratulations on your excellent work.

I remain yours gratefully,

Mike

On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:24 PM Michael Thompson <kneedragon1962@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Debian,

I just tried it again, and got the same result.
If you download the standard vanilla Debian netinstall ISO, create a
VBox, and install, it works fine. I just confirmed this by downloading a
fresh one. I know it's a new one because it includes the non-free-firmware >> part in the sources.list, which is new. A netinstall ISO from last week
didn't mention firmware.

1st login, make user a member of sudo.
useradd mike sudo
Login as mike,
sudo pluma
as root, open & edit the /etc/apt/sources.list. Delete everything and add
2 lines ~
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian sid main contrib non-free-firmware
Save and close.
Now, as root or as mike,
sudo apt update ; sudo apt dist upgrade
Standard method of upgrading from vanilla to sid.
Problem is, it breaks your networking.
It loses your nic and any reference to it, any settings, any ip address
...
You cannot add something else because there is no network.
You cannot update or install anything. I sent a big email a couple of
days ago, which covered how you might work around that, but so far, it has >> not been fixed.
By my reckoning, it's been 6 days now.
If my understanding is correct, then nobody anywhere can install a
vanilla Debian and upgrade to sid while this problem remains.
Yes, I am aware there are other install ISOs, there's about 80 of them.
I did find one that is a daily build of Trixie, and that has no problems,
although I didn't try to upgrade it to sid. I'm rather pleased to have a
working Trixie and I don't want to break it.
One (very long & tedious) way around this, I mentioned in my previous
email. It does work, but you might as well create a new Linux from Scratch. >> It's a lot of messing about to achieve something that should be quite
straightforward.
There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that give
simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade to
sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.

Yours respectfully,

Mike

<div dir="ltr"><div>Dear Debian,</div><div>Thanks for your patience.</div><div>I just went back to square one, deleted the netinstall ISO, deleted the 3 VMs I had, made a new one. I downloaded a fresh netinstall, made a new VirtBox, and installed. One
thing I did different, I checked the Mate desktop box, but I didn&#39;t un-check the gnome box. I chose to use the lightdm, but other than that, I have both gnome and Mate.</div><div>From that point on, I did the edit to sources.list, dist upgrade, and
that worked without any evident problem.</div><div>Next, I started firefox and went to VBox, downloaded the latest version of the Guest Additions. (Which is 458 as I write this.)</div><div>Did this ~</div><div>Install Virtualbox Guest Additions on Debian<

Log into Debian (Guest OS) as root and update your software.<br>apt-get update &amp;&amp; apt-get upgrade<br>Install required packages for building kernel modules.<br>apt-get install build-essential module-assistant<br>Prepare your system for building

kernel module<br>m-a prepare</div><div>=============</div><div>~ and reboot.</div><div><br></div><div>===========</div><div>mike@debian <br>----------- <br>OS: Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid x86_64 <br>Host: VirtualBox 1.2 <br> Kernel: 6.5.0-4-amd64 <br> 
Uptime: 1 min <br> Packages: 1823 (dpkg) <br>Shell: bash 5.2.21 <br> Resolution: 1920x951 <br>DE: MATE 1.26.1 <br> WM: Metacity (Marco) <br> Theme: Menta [GTK2/3] <br> Icons: menta [GTK2/3] <br> Terminal: mate-terminal <br> Terminal Font:
Monospace 15 <br> CPU: Intel i7-6700 (4) @ 3.408GHz <br> GPU: 00:02.0 VMware SVGA II Adapter <br> Memory: 693MiB / 7938MiB </div><div>============</div><div>After a week of struggle, we appear to be back exactly where Debian sid should be, with the
possible exception of the gnome desktop. Whether that has any bearing on the matter or not, I don&#39;t know, but it did strike me during the install, that perhaps I should leave it in, because gnome3 is the default desktop, so the Debs would be
developing for compatibility with that first ~ Remove it, and that might break things ....</div><div><br></div><div>I remain gratefully yours,</div><div><br></div><div>Mike<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Tue, Nov 28, 2023 at 1:52 AM Michael Thompson &lt;<a href="mailto:kneedragon1962@gmail.com">kneedragon1962@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-
left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear Debian,<div><br></div><div>Minor update, it works!!!</div><div><br></div><div>I know I did one thing differently, which possibly influenced things, I don&#39;t know what you guys and the team did.</div><div><

</div><div>First, check that the 2 remaining lines in sources.list ended with non-free-firmware, as in ~</div><div>deb <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br>deb-

src <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>~ when I ran the dist-upgrade command, I got a couple of places where it said
something like &#39;Errors were encountered by dpkg in dealing with ~<br></div><div><br></div><div>linux-image-6.5.0-4-amd64 ~and~ linux-image-amd64<br></div><div><br></div><div>~ so, before rebooting, I went </div><div>sudo apt install  linux-image-6.
5.0-4-amd64  linux-image-amd64</div></div>~ predictably, it said something along the lines of &quot;Those are already the newest version. What&#39;s your problem?&quot;<div><br></div><div>I also ran sudo apt autoremove, which reclaimed a surprising
amount of disk space... well over 200MB.</div><div>Then I rebooted and now it works. Yipee!!</div><div><br></div><div>I know something changed, because the previous dist-upgrade went chasing 1100 files. This attempt went after 1098. Two less files. Ergo,
something changed ~ in addition to the non-free-<b>firmware</b>.</div><div>Thank you Debian, congratulations on your excellent work.</div><div><br></div><div>I remain yours gratefully,</div><div><br></div><div>Mike</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><
div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 27, 2023 at 7:24 PM Michael Thompson &lt;<a href="mailto:kneedragon1962@gmail.com" target="_blank">kneedragon1962@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Debian,<div><br></div><div>I just tried it again, and got the same result.</div><div>If you download the standard vanilla Debian netinstall ISO, create a VBox, and install,
it works fine. I just confirmed this by downloading a fresh one. I know it&#39;s a new one because it includes the non-free-firmware part in the sources.list, which is new. A netinstall ISO from last week didn&#39;t mention firmware.</div><div><br></div>
<div>1st login, make user a member of sudo.</div><div>useradd mike sudo</div><div>Login as mike, </div><div>sudo pluma</div><div>as root, open &amp; edit the /etc/apt/sources.list. Delete everything and add 2 lines ~</div><div>deb <a href="http://deb.
debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br>deb-src <a href="http://deb.debian.org/debian" target="_blank">http://deb.debian.org/debian</a> sid main contrib non-free-firmware<br></div><div>
Save and close.</div><div>Now, as root or as mike, </div><div>sudo apt update ; sudo apt dist upgrade</div><div>Standard method of upgrading from vanilla to sid.</div><div>Problem is, it breaks your networking.</div><div>It loses your nic and any
reference to it, any settings, any ip address ...</div><div>You cannot add something else because there is no network.</div><div>You cannot update or install anything. I sent a big email a couple of days ago, which covered how you might work around that,
but so far, it has not been fixed.</div><div>By my reckoning, it&#39;s been 6 days now.</div><div>If my understanding is correct, then nobody anywhere can install a vanilla Debian and upgrade to sid while this problem remains.</div><div>Yes, I am aware
there are other install ISOs, there&#39;s about 80 of them.</div><div>I did find one that is a daily build of Trixie, and that has no problems, although I didn&#39;t try to upgrade it to sid. I&#39;m rather pleased to have a working Trixie and I don&#39;
t want to break it.</div><div>One (very long &amp; tedious) way around this, I mentioned in my previous email. It does work, but you might as well create a new Linux from Scratch. It&#39;s a lot of messing about to achieve something that should be quite
straightforward.</div><div>There are something over a hundred sites and pages up, that give simple logical instructions about how you install Debian and upgrade to sid. Every one of those pages is currently wrong.</div><div><br></div><div>Yours
respectfully,</div><div><br></div><div>Mike</div></div> </blockquote></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:02:43 +1000
Michael Thompson <kneedragon1962@gmail.com> wrote:

After a week of struggle, we appear to be back exactly where Debian
sid should be, with the possible exception of the gnome desktop.
Whether that has any bearing on the matter or not, I don't know, but
it did strike me during the install, that perhaps I should leave it
in, because gnome3 is the default desktop, so the Debs would be
developing for compatibility with that first ~ Remove it, and that
might break things ....

Not commenting on your problem, but sid does not need Gnome. or at
least the Gnome metapackage and all its dependencies.

I have neither Mate nor Gnome on my sid, which was up to date two or
three days ago. I do have a few Gnome packages, such as Nautilus (bow
called Files) and I seem to have Network Manager, though I did not
install it. Presumably that is now standard, either on Debian or Xfce4.

--
Joe

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Removing the Gnome desktop will not break anything. There are several "desktops" in Debian: Gnome is merely the default that you get when you indicate that you want one but don't say which. There is in fact no requirement for a "desktop" at all.
--
John Hasler
john@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 28/11/23 04:52, Michael Thompson wrote:

[lots of stuff]

Quick question - are you subscribed to the list? I notice you've replied
a couple of times to your own emails, but not to any of the people
who've offered suggestions. It's probably a good idea to subscribe, or
at least check the archives:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/recent

Secondly, you say:

"I sent a big email a couple of days ago, which covered how you might
work around that, but so far, it has not been fixed.
By my reckoning, it's been 6 days now."

Filing a bug may well be useful, but it should be done through the
proper channels, not via a post on debian-user.

https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

Cheers,
Richard

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)