Given that Friday was Autism Awareness Day, it might be worth noting
that RMS is clearly "on the spectrum" - and well known since the days he
slept in his office at MIT (my student days).

Why is it that nobody ever gives him any leeway for that?

Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown

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On 4/5/21 3:29 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:

Given that Friday was Autism Awareness Day, it might be worth noting
that RMS is clearly "on the spectrum" - and well known since the days he slept in his office at MIT (my student days).

Why is it that nobody ever gives him any leeway for that?

Without expressing myself about one side or another, or even not
expressing myself about RMS case (ie: if he's an autistic person or not)
autism is a mental disease. Putting someone with a mental disease in
charge is not exactly a good idea.

Are you trying to make a case that we should be indulgent with RMS
because he's autistic? If that is your intention, you're achieving the
exact opposite thing with your message...

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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Le lundi 05 avril 2021 à 16:04:58+0200, Thomas Goirand a écrit :

On 4/5/21 3:29 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:

Given that Friday was Autism Awareness Day, it might be worth noting
that RMS is clearly "on the spectrum" - and well known since the days he slept in his office at MIT (my student days).

Why is it that nobody ever gives him any leeway for that?

Without expressing myself about one side or another, or even not
expressing myself about RMS case (ie: if he's an autistic person or not) autism is a mental disease. Putting someone with a mental disease in
charge is not exactly a good idea.

I am not sure to agree with your last sentence. Of course, some
pathologies may prevent someone to be able to lead a group/activities,
but it's not something I'd state as generally as you tend to do.

Whether RMS has any neuroatypical condition and whether or not it should
give him lenience and/or preventing him from leading the FSF is paths I
won't go along, as I am no doctor and have no expertise on these
matters.

Regards,

--
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528 F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.

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--- SoupGate-Wi

Someone privately made me realize that what I wrote is probably not nice
to read for autistic people. It was not my intention to hurt anyone, and
I have nothing against autistic people, who in some cases, are capable
of being leaders.

On 4/5/21 4:12 PM, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Whether RMS has any neuroatypical condition and whether or not it should
give him lenience and/or preventing him from leading the FSF is paths I
won't go along, as I am no doctor and have no expertise on these
matters.

Also, I agree with what PEB wrote above.

Though I wasn't making the case that RMS has any "neuroatypical
condition" (Miles did). I'm saying that Miles's explanation/excuse is
probably counter productive, and is instead a case *against* RMS being
in charge. If it was the case, I would not agree with Miles that says we
should "give him leeway for that".

I hope it's more clear like this, and it doesn't hurt anyone this time.

Cheers,

Thomas Goirand (zigo)

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On 05/04/2021 16:29, Miles Fidelman wrote:

Given that Friday was Autism Awareness Day, it might be worth noting
that RMS is clearly "on the spectrum" - and well known since the days
he slept in his office at MIT (my student days).

I am a father to a child diagnosed with ASD (Autistic Spectrum
Disorder). During diagnosis, as we went over the (surprisingly
objective) criteria for ASD, I realized it is more likely than not that
I am a case of undiagnosed ASD (though probably more minor case than my daughter). It is from that position that I have this to say:

Why is it that nobody ever gives him any leeway for that?

I absolutely positively reject the notion expressed here. The way we
interact with others is 100% our responsibility. While I completely
reject the blanket statement made by Thomas, if you want a leadership
position, particularly one where you manage other people, be ready to
forego any alleviating circumstances you might otherwise be able to claim.

We should show compassion to others' struggles. We should do so whether
those struggles have a DSM definition or not. We should also expect our
leaders to show humanity towards people they have power over. Again, we
should do so whether or not DSM is involved in the process.

There are some norma-deviations in the DSM manual that hinder ability to
tell right from wrong. However:

1. Autism isn't one of them.

2. If you want to apply to _that_ exception, then you absolutely
shouldn't be in a position of power.

I am raising my child to know that asking for special consideration in
that regard means paying the price of not achieving what others can. I
am instructing anyone interacting with my child to show understanding to
my child's blunders, but not to accept them. An Autistic person making
an insensitive or hurtful comment toward others still leaves someone
hurt. We can understand why the comment was made, but we shouldn't
accept that it's okay to hurt others.

Shachar

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On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 09:29:07AM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote:

Given that Friday was Autism Awareness Day, it might be worth noting that
RMS is clearly "on the spectrum" - and well known since the days he slept in his office at MIT (my student days).

Why is it that nobody ever gives him any leeway for that?

I am "on the spectrum" too, and nobody gives me any leeway for that either.

Not that I *want* leeway -- the point is that it's possible to learn,
and that if it's significantly more difficult for RMS, he can talk to a therapist and learn that way (which is what hundreds of other people "on
the spectrum" end up doing, and they are much better off for it!).

Meanwhile, there are plenty of people who suffer under RMS'
"leadership", and they do not deserve that.

--
w@uter.{be,co.za}
wouter@{grep.be,fosdem.org,debian.org}

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