Dear Debian voters,
While Debian has stakes in the CRA, and should issue a statement if
only to show we exists, I am quite sure that a GR is not necessary for Debian to issue such statement, and I am quite unconvinced the GR process is the best
option for the purpose of drafting such statement.
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law to draft a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian.
EU law is significantly different from US law and publishing a statement that either misrepresent the CRA or the current state of EU law is not likely to be taken seriously, so we need some care.
We have legitimate reasons to feel concerned by the impact of this law, but all the more reasons to act cautiously.
I advocated previously against using the GR process to issues statements related to non-technical issues outside of Debian and I reiterate it here.
Dear Debian voters,
While Debian has stakes in the CRA, and should issue a statement if
only to show we exists, I am quite sure that a GR is not necessary for Debian to issue such statement, and I am quite unconvinced the GR process is the best
option for the purpose of drafting such statement.
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law to draft a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian.
While Debian has stakes in the CRA, and should issue a statement if
only to show we exists, I am quite sure that a GR is not necessary for Debian
to issue such statement, and I am quite unconvinced the GR process is the best
option for the purpose of drafting such statement.
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law to draft >> a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian.
I'm not sure that the DPL has such authority, since it's a power
giving to the developers by way of GR.
I would also like to point out that, in the current state, on Saturday
the discussion period is over and a vote is automatically called.
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law to draft a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian >
EU law is significantly different from US law and publishing a statement that either misrepresent the CRA or the current state of EU law is not likely to be taken seriously, so we need some care.
We have legitimate reasons to feel concerned by the impact of this law, but all the more reasons to act cautiously.
On 11/21/23 22:26, Bill Allombert wrote:
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law to draft
a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian >
EU law is significantly different from US law and publishing a statement that
either misrepresent the CRA or the current state of EU law is not likely to be taken seriously, so we need some care.
We have legitimate reasons to feel concerned by the impact of this law, but all the more reasons to act cautiously.
Excuse me to insist with vocabulary, but since you've use the word "law"
6 times above: the EU isn't a state or a nation, and doesn't make laws.
We're talking about "directives", that eventually will be implemented as laws in each member state. This is a huge difference that make it
possible to fight the CRA at multiple levels. This also mean that the
CRA wording isn't as important as the wording of its implementation as a
law in each member state.
Also, once the directive is passed, it's still theoretically possible to fight its wording in each state. Seen the other way around: it's
possible that the implementation as a law in each country is worse than
then directive itself, we must pay attention to it (it's probably even
more difficult for us this way, as there will be 27 implementations to
take care of).
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 10:26:09PM +0100, Bill Allombert wrote:
Dear Debian voters,
While Debian has stakes in the CRA, and should issue a statement if
only to show we exists, I am quite sure that a GR is not necessary for Debian
to issue such statement, and I am quite unconvinced the GR process is the best
option for the purpose of drafting such statement.
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law to draft
a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian.
I'm not sure that the DPL has such authority, since it's a power
giving to the developers by way of GR.
I would also like to point out that, in the current state, on Saturday
the discussion period is over and a vote is automatically called.
At this point, and in part given that GR 2021_003 introduced time[...]
limits, I think the GR process might produce the swiftest results,
and
it will yield the best legitimacy-wise (i.e. the whole project is
invited to debate and improve the proposed text, and accept it
above/below the approval threshold.
The DPL could delegate to a group of people knowledgeable in EU law
to draft
a statement that is congruent with the interest of Debian.
This text was in fact drafted by a lawyer (I don't know if by a _set_
of lawyers) and discussed among DDs at several in-person meetings
before reaching this stage.
I strongly advocated using the GR process, as it has already been
subjected to a long discussion, and the timeframe for it to be
usefully considered is drawing to an end.
Excuse me to insist with vocabulary, but since you've use the word "law" 6 times above: the EU isn't a state or a nation, and doesn't make laws. We're talking about "directives", that eventually will be implemented as laws in each member state. This is a huge difference that make it possible to fight the CRA at multiple levels. This also mean that the CRA wording isn't as important as the wording of its implementation as a law in each member
state.
Also, once the directive is passed, it's still theoretically possible to fight its wording in each state. Seen the other way around: it's possible that the implementation as a law in each country is worse than then
directive itself, we must pay attention to it (it's probably even more difficult for us this way, as there will be 27 implementations to take care of).
Bill Allombert dijo [Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 10:26:09PM +0100]:
Dear Debian voters,
While Debian has stakes in the CRA, and should issue a statement if
only to show we exists, I am quite sure that a GR is not necessary for Debian
to issue such statement, and I am quite unconvinced the GR process is the best
option for the purpose of drafting such statement.
I note that this is not the first law proposal that impact Debian and we never
did used the GR process for issuing a position statement.
We never did _successfully_ use it. We have _tried_ to use it
(i.e. 2021_002).
This text was in fact drafted by a lawyer (I don't know if by a _set_
of lawyers) and discussed among DDs at several in-person meetings
before reaching this stage. I strongly advocated using the GR process,
as it has already been subjected to a long discussion, and the
timeframe for it to be usefully considered is drawing to an end.
At this point, and in part given that GR 2021_003 introduced time
limits, I think the GR process might produce the swiftest results, and
it will yield the best legitimacy-wise (i.e. the whole project is
invited to debate and improve the proposed text, and accept it
above/below the approval threshold.
Le mercredi 22 novembre 2023 à 09:05 +0100, Thomas Goirand a écrit :
Excuse me to insist with vocabulary, but since you've use the word "law"
6 times above: the EU isn't a state or a nation, and doesn't make laws.
Just a minor note: the EU actually issues laws, they’re called “regulation” in the EU jargon¹. But indeed a “directive” (as in the CRA
case) is something different, and as you say opens up the possibility
of a fight at the national level.
We're talking about "directives", that eventually will be implemented as
laws in each member state. This is a huge difference that make it
possible to fight the CRA at multiple levels. This also mean that the
CRA wording isn't as important as the wording of its implementation as a
law in each member state.
Also, once the directive is passed, it's still theoretically possible to
fight its wording in each state. Seen the other way around: it's
possible that the implementation as a law in each country is worse than
then directive itself, we must pay attention to it (it's probably even
more difficult for us this way, as there will be 27 implementations to
take care of).
¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_(European_Union)
I would also like to point out that, in the current state, on Saturday
the discussion period is over and a vote is automatically called.
On 2023/11/22 01:37, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
I would also like to point out that, in the current state, on Saturday
the discussion period is over and a vote is automatically called.
Not so sure how automatic that was meant to be, but for what it's worth,
I didn't see enough interest in extending the discussion period, so it
ended on Saturday.
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