On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 12:26:56PM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:

On Friday, 2 April 2021 11:09:42 PM AEDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Thanks for arguing for my point: Communism was a beautiful theoretical
idea which was implemented by humans and therefore was a miserable
fuckup in the end.

I still think the concept is really interesting, but I can't see a
working implementation as soon as there are humans who would want to be
leaders in such regimes.

I don't see a connection with free speech here, anyway.

What a nasty disgraceful style of debating you have, Pierre.

You might disagree with him, but please stop attacking the
person. It's not necessary and only lowers the tone of debate.

You understood very well what I'm saying and I'm is not confirming your >point. Communism is a bad ideology that does not work (and could not work >even in theory) - that's why it should be "cancelled".
Free speech is a beautiful working practice but it is in the way of terrible >ideas and that's why they want to "cancel" free speech.

And other people disagree with you on those points. Please accept that
and leave it there?

--
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com Into the distance, a ribbon of black
Stretched to the point of no turning back

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"SM" == Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> writes:

SM> On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 12:26:56PM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
>> On Friday, 2 April 2021 11:09:42 PM AEDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>>> Thanks for arguing for my point: Communism was a beautiful
>>> theoretical

>>> idea which was implemented by humans and therefore was a
>>> miserable fuckup in the end.
>>>
>>> I still think the concept is really interesting, but I can't see
>>> a working implementation as soon as there are humans who would
>>> want to be leaders in such regimes.
>>>
>>> I don't see a connection with free speech here, anyway.
>>
>> What a nasty disgraceful style of debating you have, Pierre.

SM> You might disagree with him, but please stop attacking the
SM> person. It's not necessary and only lowers the tone of debate.

Yes, please.

>> You understood very well what I'm saying and I'm is not
>> confirming your point. Communism is a bad ideology that does not
>> work (and could not work even in theory) - that's why it should
>> be "cancelled". Free speech is a beautiful working practice but
>> it is in the way of terrible ideas and that's why they want to
>> "cancel" free speech.

SM> And other people disagree with you on those points. Please
SM> accept that and leave it there?

Please note that some of us who suffered from communism and got both theoretical and practical training in marxism-leninism may be quite
sensitive to claims that communism was a beautiful theoretical idea or
putting some kind of equations between communism and freedom of speech.
I had to hold off myself to not respond to those claims, which were not
helpful and the intended points could be illustrated in better ways.

Regards,
Milan

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Le samedi 03 avril 2021 à 15:41:43+0200, Milan Zamazal a écrit :

"SM" == Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> writes:

SM> On Sat, Apr 03, 2021 at 12:26:56PM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
>> On Friday, 2 April 2021 11:09:42 PM AEDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>>> Thanks for arguing for my point: Communism was a beautiful
>>> theoretical

>>> idea which was implemented by humans and therefore was a
>>> miserable fuckup in the end.
>>>
>>> I still think the concept is really interesting, but I can't see
>>> a working implementation as soon as there are humans who would
>>> want to be leaders in such regimes.
>>>
>>> I don't see a connection with free speech here, anyway.
>>
>> What a nasty disgraceful style of debating you have, Pierre.

SM> You might disagree with him, but please stop attacking the
SM> person. It's not necessary and only lowers the tone of debate.

Yes, please.

>> You understood very well what I'm saying and I'm is not
>> confirming your point. Communism is a bad ideology that does not
>> work (and could not work even in theory) - that's why it should
>> be "cancelled". Free speech is a beautiful working practice but
>> it is in the way of terrible ideas and that's why they want to
>> "cancel" free speech.

SM> And other people disagree with you on those points. Please
SM> accept that and leave it there?

Please note that some of us who suffered from communism and got both theoretical and practical training in marxism-leninism may be quite

Theoretical, with small "reviews" from the party. Which means not
theoretically accurate at all.

sensitive to claims that communism was a beautiful theoretical idea or putting some kind of equations between communism and freedom of speech.
I had to hold off myself to not respond to those claims, which were not helpful and the intended points could be illustrated in better ways.

Regards,

I explained in what way I compare both. You may consider it was not the
best way to illustrate my point and I'm eager to take that remark, but
this connection is not, /per se/, absurd.

--
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528 F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iQIzBAABCgAdFiEESYqTBWsFJgT6y8ijKb+g0HkpCsoFAmBoixQACgkQKb+g0Hkp Csp77xAApcBhHnWkOQSvJCUl7Aibqiw1Sq6jL+RYK4v2KJgSrJRgXziKqQto9lzX 0K4sbdSJEWyKCOAgmrnUZORdWEX9sbVvSA1DLnBiT9S+dSMgP3vkf6HcN+mqX4fi F0wmnmBA5ccVb8kTzQzrMkpHc9KczAcZS3CEn5pPiq7nXxGWM2TkZAI2nYR/GvQZ B3YNZ+Miq2z7LPldemu455BrncWQcGXF7IMpqDaSff72rCFwImdeLGNnT9JQe0cl LIyg+UEPaFMb9enkA6c848PSMJVyMfPnxxdkufAu/t6WKV+jLt/urYQAzW2b5XBt 9j0048EiXejwGW7QnFGf4C+mR385q80RObr8IG+H3zE5QnJxrnppg2GjWxZoPh2H WAWYdGmgMgx1I3NxzNE1rCqG6DV87mUEDVvK7vX9G5f1guzni1RLyLVjFRn9l7rX 2unBVnHZLxs/v26OLMPGpHWWUiohftkP6nZDuWYAd7JCSJ92ww64dp3BVfZOn9yj 9l8TXOEGoSEFgBGgOYGUUSck8sNr/yBc3AmXwmfbyCiuUdg1IB1XcCcnd6Zno68K RK69NWEfTKpPKkIIz7zXhN2lICGAnZXcDPhIuT4ImOd3udW+ez9Ki0nByV2YQ0nA Y4+LBK0/XsBtsauMK5efZQBDJTj/pdTjlMw+X7muR2flUqjADr8=
=KHDk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- SoupGate-Wi