Hi

Sorry If I am replying in the wrong way, I tried to understand how
these lists work but I always seem to get it wrong.

I have tried to use the Alpha netboot image. It booted very nicely,
but then I got the message that I needed to load some firmware from
removable media -- in this case, qlogic/1040.bin. The installer did
not detect the CDROM drive, which is a standard SCSI one that came
with the AlphaServer.

I put the files on a floppy (AlphaServer 1200 does not have USB) but
there is no floppy kernel module on the installer, so it could not
read the floppy.

So I'm kind of stuck.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

Darren

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On 4/15/19 03:53, Darren Goossens wrote:

Hi

Sorry If I am replying in the wrong way, I tried to understand how
these lists work but I always seem to get it wrong.

I have tried to use the Alpha netboot image. It booted very nicely,
but then I got the message that I needed to load some firmware from
removable media -- in this case, qlogic/1040.bin. The installer did
not detect the CDROM drive, which is a standard SCSI one that came
with the AlphaServer.

I put the files on a floppy (AlphaServer 1200 does not have USB) but
there is no floppy kernel module on the installer, so it could not
read the floppy.

So I'm kind of stuck.

Can you get your network up already at that point - netcat (as `nc`) is available in the installer environment - or does this also require
access to the installer disc?

Cheers,
Frank

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On Apr 15, 2019, at 9:37 AM, Frank Scheiner <frank.scheiner@web.de> wrote:

On 4/15/19 03:53, Darren Goossens wrote:
Hi

Sorry If I am replying in the wrong way, I tried to understand how
these lists work but I always seem to get it wrong.

I have tried to use the Alpha netboot image. It booted very nicely,
but then I got the message that I needed to load some firmware from
removable media -- in this case, qlogic/1040.bin. The installer did
not detect the CDROM drive, which is a standard SCSI one that came
with the AlphaServer.

I put the files on a floppy (AlphaServer 1200 does not have USB) but
there is no floppy kernel module on the installer, so it could not
read the floppy.

So I'm kind of stuck.

Can you get your network up already at that point - netcat (as `nc`) is available in the installer environment - or does this also require
access to the installer disc?

First of all, we need to find out whether Darren is actually using netboot images or NETINST. Those are not the same.

Adrian

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Hi Darren!

On 4/15/19 3:53 AM, Darren Goossens wrote:

Sorry If I am replying in the wrong way, I tried to understand how
these lists work but I always seem to get it wrong.

You're doing it the right way, don't worry.

I have tried to use the Alpha netboot image. It booted very nicely,
but then I got the message that I needed to load some firmware from
removable media -- in this case, qlogic/1040.bin. The installer did
not detect the CDROM drive, which is a standard SCSI one that came
with the AlphaServer.

First things first, we need to rule out some confusion: Are you using
the actual netboot images or NETINST CD-ROM? I am asking because those
are two distinct method of installation and the former, the netboot
images actually don't include any modules for IDE, SCSI and SATA
hardware. Those modules are supposed to be retrieved over the network.

Compare cdrom:

https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debian-installer/blob/master/build/pkg-lists/cdrom/alpha.cfg

and netboot:

https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debian-installer/blob/master/build/pkg-lists/netboot/alpha.cfg

If you are actually using NETINST CD-ROM image and not netboot, I need
to know what storage controllers this machine has. Could you provide
the output of "lspci" on Linux and maybe also "show device" from the
SRM console?

I put the files on a floppy (AlphaServer 1200 does not have USB) but
there is no floppy kernel module on the installer, so it could not
read the floppy.

Yes, floppy modules are currently not included for alpha, both for
CD-ROM (NETINST etc) or netboot installation. We could change that
if there is demand for this.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

It isn't. Thanks for your feedback.

Adrian

--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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Hi Darren!

On 4/15/19 12:30 PM, Darren Goossens wrote:

The image I downloaded was the ~250MB image from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-04-09/ (the URL in the
posting to the mailing list)

debian-10.0-alpha-NETINST-1.iso

Okay, so you performed a NETINST installation, not a netboot.

Here is most of the output of show dev in the SRM console and some
other output from logging into the Debian 5 install I have on one of
the hard disks (lspci -v and lsmod). qlogic was what the installer
asked for (so I guess the module would be qla1280), but of course I
don't know what else it might have asked for had I got deeper into the install.Apologies for the length of this posting. I'm a bit out of my
depth.

Thanks, that should be enough. We'll have to compare your hardware information with the drivers currently shipped with the kernel and debian-installer now, there might be a module missing for your hardware.

I'm currently busy with work, so I cannot have a look right away but maybe Frank Scheiner or someone else is faster.

Thanks,
Adrian

--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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Hi THere

The image I downloaded was the ~250MB image from https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/2019-04-09/ (the URL in the
posting to the mailing list)

debian-10.0-alpha-NETINST-1.iso

Here is most of the output of show dev in the SRM console and some
other output from logging into the Debian 5 install I have on one of
the hard disks (lspci -v and lsmod). qlogic was what the installer
asked for (so I guess the module would be qla1280), but of course I
don't know what else it might have asked for had I got deeper into the install.Apologies for the length of this posting. I'm a bit out of my
depth.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM console:

show dev

polling ncr0 (NCR 53C810) slot 1, bus 0 PCI, hose 1 SCSI Bus ID 7 dka400.4.0.1.1 DKA400 RRD46 1337
polling floppy0 (FLOPPY) PCEB - XBUS hose 0
dva0.0.0.1000.0 DCA0 RS23
polling isp0 (QLogic ISP10X0) slot 0, bus 2 PCI, hose 0 SCSI Bus ID 7
Then some stuff about the HDDs
polling tulip0 (DECchip 21140-AA) slot 3,b bus 0 PCI, hose 1 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Logged into Debian 5:

$ sudo lspci -v

0000:00:01.0 EISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82375EB/SB PCI to EISA
Bridge (rev 15)
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 248
Kernel driver in use: pci_eisa

0000:00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA
2064W [Millennium] (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
Flags: stepping, medium devsel, IRQ 16
Memory at 02340000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
Memory at 02800000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=8M]
Expansion ROM at 02320000 [disabled] [size=64K]
Kernel modules: matroxfb_base

0000:00:03.0 Mass storage controller: Promise Technology, Inc.
PDC20262 (FastTrak66/Ultra66) (rev 01)
Subsystem: Promise Technology, Inc. Ultra66
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 248, IRQ 20
I/O ports at 9040 [size=8]
I/O ports at 9050 [size=4]
I/O ports at 9048 [size=8]
I/O ports at 9054 [size=4]
I/O ports at 9000 [size=64]
Memory at 02300000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K]
Expansion ROM at 02330000 [disabled] [size=64K]
Capabilities: [58] Power Management version 1
Kernel driver in use: Promise_Old_IDE
Kernel modules: pdc202xx_old

0000:00:04.0 PCI bridge: Digital Equipment Corporation DECchip 21050
(rev 02) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 248
Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=0
I/O behind bridge: 00008000-00008fff
Memory behind bridge: 02200000-022fffff

0000:01:00.0 SCSI storage controller: QLogic Corp. ISP1020 Fast-wide
SCSI (rev 02)
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 248, IRQ 24
I/O ports at 8000 [size=256]
Memory at 02210000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
Expansion ROM at 02200000 [disabled] [size=64K]
Kernel driver in use: qla1280
Kernel modules: qla1280

0001:02:01.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c810 (rev 02)
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 255, IRQ 56
I/O ports at 200008000 [size=256]
Memory at 202240000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256]
Kernel driver in use: sym53c8xx
Kernel modules: sym53c8xx

0001:02:03.0 Ethernet controller: Digital Equipment Corporation
DECchip 21140 [FasterNet] (rev 20)
Subsystem: Digital Equipment Corporation Device 500a
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 255, IRQ 44
I/O ports at 200008400 [size=128]
Memory at 202241000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128]
Expansion ROM at 202200000 [disabled] [size=256K]
Kernel driver in use: tulip
Kernel modules: tulip

0001:02:04.0 Multimedia audio controller: Ensoniq ES1371 [AudioPCI-97] (rev 06)
Subsystem: Ensoniq Creative Sound Blaster AudioPCI64V, AudioPCI128
Flags: slow devsel, IRQ 48
I/O ports at 200008480 [size=64]
Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 1
Kernel modules: snd-ens1371 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ sudo lsmod

Module Size Used by
nls_utf8 4448 1
isofs 47456 1
zlib_inflate 19992 1 isofs
udf 112056 0
nls_base 11956 3 nls_utf8,isofs,udf
crc_itu_t 4480 1 udf
ppdev 12080 0
parport_pc 35480 1
lp 15064 0
parport 50488 3 ppdev,parport_pc,lp
ipv6 385968 18
loop 20816 0
snd_ens1371 32672 0
gameport 17312 1 snd_ens1371
snd_ac97_codec 133516 1 snd_ens1371
snd_pcm_oss 53989 0
snd_mixer_oss 21945 1 snd_pcm_oss
snd_pcm 93812 3 snd_ens1371,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss snd_seq_dummy 5900 0
snd_seq_oss 45556 0
snd_seq_midi 10904 0
snd_rawmidi 30409 2 snd_ens1371,snd_seq_midi
snd_seq_midi_event 12352 2 snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi
snd_seq 75400 6 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi,snd_seq_midi_event
snd_timer 28880 2 snd_pcm,snd_seq
snd_seq_device 11560 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq
snd 75744 10 snd_ens1371,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_seq_oss,snd_rawmidi,snd_seq,snd_timer,snd_seq_device
psmouse 53544 0
pcspkr 5732 0
serio_raw 9420 0
soundcore 11096 1 snd
snd_page_alloc 13416 1 snd_pcm
ac97_bus 4176 1 snd_ac97_codec
evdev 14761 1
ext3 163776 1
jbd 68504 1 ext3
sd_mod 34180 4
sg 43400 0
sr_mod 24600 0
ide_disk 19230 0
ide_cd_mod 43592 1
cdrom 46952 2 sr_mod,ide_cd_mod
qla1280 128440 3
tulip 67944 0
bitrev 4608 1 tulip
crc32 6784 1 tulip
sym53c8xx 94220 0
scsi_transport_spi 33033 1 sym53c8xx
pdc202xx_old 11360 0 [permanent]
ide_core 136440 3 ide_disk,ide_cd_mod,pdc202xx_old

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Hi

What I am doing is not time critical, so I am happy to wait. If I can
perform a useful function as a somewhat naive tester, I am happy to.

Many thanks

Darren

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Hi,

As far as I understand, it seems that booting a SCSI
drive (disk, cdrom) on alpha needs a (non-free)
firmware for the QLOGIC chip (see the thread
following [1] for an example and the answer of Michael Cree)

This firmware should be loaded somehow : embedded in
the (tainted) kernel (as suggested in [1]), included
in the initramfs or loaded from a floppy at boot time
(if the floppy drive is still functional and there is
a floppy driver in the kernel).

These firmwares are packaged in : firmware-qlogic (non-free)
which is not mirrored on ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports
but on regular mirrors.

I hope it will help !

Many thanks for all this work towards a (smoothly) working
install CD for alpha - and especially for fixing the generic
kernel and assembling the CD
(I am not able to test currently, sorry)

Regards,
JH Chatenet

[1] : https://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2017/11/msg00000.html

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On 4/16/19 1:06 PM, jhcha54008 wrote:

As far as I understand, it seems that booting a SCSI
drive (disk, cdrom) on alpha needs a (non-free)
firmware for the QLOGIC chip (see the thread
following [1] for an example and the answer of Michael Cree)

I see. I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

This firmware should be loaded somehow : embedded in
the (tainted) kernel (as suggested in [1]), included
in the initramfs or loaded from a floppy at boot time
(if the floppy drive is still functional and there is
a floppy driver in the kernel).

We cannot really include stuff in the kernel as the kernel
is the official Debian kernel and thus must therefore to the
Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG).

These firmwares are packaged in : firmware-qlogic (non-free)
which is not mirrored on ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports
but on regular mirrors.

Yes, those firmware packages can be used by adding something like:

deb [arch=all] http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable contrib non-free

to your sources.list. For the installer, we could include the firmware
on the CD the same way the unofficial Debian installation CDs do that
but that will probably not help us if the firmware is required to access
the firmware.

It would be interesting to test an old Debian installation CD when Alpha
was still an officially supported architecture. We need to find out how
it was done back then.

Many thanks for all this work towards a (smoothly) working
install CD for alpha - and especially for fixing the generic
kernel and assembling the CD
(I am not able to test currently, sorry)

You're welcome. It's a community effort, so I'll just say that on
behalf of everyone involved :).

Adrian

--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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Hi, and thanks for the inte3resting discussion.

Yes, the QLOGIC chip seems to be the issue. The Debian 5 installer
works flawlessly. I used full disk not netinstall for that.

I cannot say what would work best for the most people, and thus be
best place to put your efforts, but I do know that the floppy works on
this machine (AlphaServer 1200), though in Deb 5 I had to modprobe
floppy first.

I'd note that the firmware package (.deb) containing the qlogic stuff
is too big to fit on a 1.44MB floppy, but if the installer can read
the files from a directory structure as well as from a deb file, then
the deb can be exploded and the files put on several disks -- or just
the required files on a singe one. As long as individual files are
lass than disk capacity, this might act as a workaround to keep the
Debian kernel untainted.

Thus, it would be interesting to make floppy.ko available, and
possibly autoloaded, inside the initramfs on the installer. (Sorry if
I've got some terminology wrong, I'm not a system programmer or
anything). Plainly, it would be great if the firmware was already in
there, but if it cn't be....

Older disks boot ok (I have a recollection of booting Debian 9 and 8
as well, from http://backup.parisc-linux.org/debian-cd/debian-8.0/alpha/
-- probably the CD-1 rather than the netinst. So I am guessing there
must be an alternative.

Many thanks

Darren

On 4/16/19, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz <glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

On 4/16/19 1:06 PM, jhcha54008 wrote:

As far as I understand, it seems that booting a SCSI
drive (disk, cdrom) on alpha needs a (non-free)
firmware for the QLOGIC chip (see the thread
following [1] for an example and the answer of Michael Cree)

I see. I wasn't aware of that, thanks.

This firmware should be loaded somehow : embedded in
the (tainted) kernel (as suggested in [1]), included
in the initramfs or loaded from a floppy at boot time
(if the floppy drive is still functional and there is
a floppy driver in the kernel).

We cannot really include stuff in the kernel as the kernel
is the official Debian kernel and thus must therefore to the
Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG).

These firmwares are packaged in : firmware-qlogic (non-free)
which is not mirrored on ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports
but on regular mirrors.

Yes, those firmware packages can be used by adding something like:

deb [arch=all] http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable contrib non-free

to your sources.list. For the installer, we could include the firmware
on the CD the same way the unofficial Debian installation CDs do that
but that will probably not help us if the firmware is required to access
the firmware.

It would be interesting to test an old Debian installation CD when Alpha
was still an officially supported architecture. We need to find out how
it was done back then.

Many thanks for all this work towards a (smoothly) working
install CD for alpha - and especially for fixing the generic
kernel and assembling the CD
(I am not able to test currently, sorry)

You're welcome. It's a community effort, so I'll just say that on
behalf of everyone involved :).

Adrian

--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

--
-------------
Brittle Gum Editing
darren.goossens@gmail.com https://darrengoossens.wordpress.com/brittle-gum-editing/

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Hi Frank

I don't have a PCI USB card, though perhaps I should invest in one.
Nearly everything now is PCI-E, so something secondhand, I guess.

Many thanks


On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 9:24 AM Frank Scheiner <frank.scheiner@web.de> wrote:

On 4/16/19 14:55, Darren Goossens wrote:

Hi, and thanks for the inte3resting discussion.

Yes, the QLOGIC chip seems to be the issue. The Debian 5 installer
works flawlessly. I used full disk not netinstall for that.

I believe at that time the Linux kernel (tree) still included a lot of firmware files. These remaining in-tree firmware files were removed with
[1]. And the `qlogic/1040.bin.ihex` firmware file was among them.

[1]: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b38923a068c10fc36ca8f596d650d095ce390b85

Not sure though, if this was also the case for the Linux kernel in Lenny.

I cannot say what would work best for the most people, and thus be
best place to put your efforts, but I do know that the floppy works on
this machine (AlphaServer 1200), though in Deb 5 I had to modprobe
floppy first.

A PCI to USB adapter could also work and avoid the size limitations of
floppy disks - if you have one at hand.

Cheers,
Frank

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On 4/16/19 14:55, Darren Goossens wrote:

Hi, and thanks for the inte3resting discussion.

Yes, the QLOGIC chip seems to be the issue. The Debian 5 installer
works flawlessly. I used full disk not netinstall for that.

I believe at that time the Linux kernel (tree) still included a lot of
firmware files. These remaining in-tree firmware files were removed with
[1]. And the `qlogic/1040.bin.ihex` firmware file was among them.

[1]: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=b38923a068c10fc36ca8f596d650d095ce390b85

Not sure though, if this was also the case for the Linux kernel in Lenny.

I cannot say what would work best for the most people, and thus be
best place to put your efforts, but I do know that the floppy works on
this machine (AlphaServer 1200), though in Deb 5 I had to modprobe
floppy first.

A PCI to USB adapter could also work and avoid the size limitations of
floppy disks - if you have one at hand.

Cheers,
Frank

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Please don't top post. It's a pain having to sort the order of
messsages --- too much so that I am going to delete the cited cited
stuff.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2019 at 09:39:40AM +1000, Darren Goossens wrote:

I don't have a PCI USB card, though perhaps I should invest in one.
Nearly everything now is PCI-E, so something secondhand, I guess.

Or use the CD. You can write a second CD with the required non-free
firmware packages. That should work as well as providing them on
USB memory stick, etc.

The qlogic firmware is essential to drive the SCSI on many Alphas.

Cheers,
Michael.

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