Hello fellow manpage translators,
I made some observations when watching the French updates which I
would like to share with you. Please kindly disregard them if they are obvious, done on purpose or do not apply; I'm not speaking French and
I'm not involved in any discussion regarding French translation, hence
these observations might be totally not applicable.
Without further ado:
1. After completing a translation, it is quite helpful to reformat it,
either before committing or in a second commit. This has two
benefits:
a) If there are any syntax errors, you immediately spot this.
b) Further scripts do not touch the file simply for reformatting,
making the "git diff" better to read.
2. If a translation has been proofread, it is usually quite helpful to
immediately (after reformatting) add it to the compendium
(../use-for-compendium.sh manx/foo.x.po)
and then update all translations
../update-translations.sh
Before committing, "git diff" is quite helpful.
This has two benefits:
a) In many cases, other man page translations (fuzzy strings, missing
strings) are updated as well, easing the work and bringing more
pages over 80% (and thus the translations to users).
b) This is an extra check; in my recent updates I noticed errors
when performing these steps, especially during the final "git diff",
which I corrected, even though I do not speak French.
3. I'm not sure about your systematics, but I do notice that quite a
few man pages are close to complete or close to reach the 80%
threshhold. Once they are at 80% they are shipped to users. Of
course, sometimes you do not want them to be shipped (unless 100%),
maybe because of problematic strings, so this might be deliberate.
However, when prioritizing, looking at
https://manpages-l10n-team.pages.debian.net/manpages-l10n/debian-unstable-fr.html
(and similarly for all other distros like Arch, Fedora, ...) you
can notice that several man pages just lack one or two strings to
reach 80% (and using the compendium, see 2., the number of these
pages maybe reduced even further).
I regularly build all man pages and provide you a list of all pages
between 70%-79% below. In case you would like to receive this list
regularly, I can try to set this up (but the web listing above
should cover this nicely as well).
4. Check for similar strings or easy unfuzzy after upstream updates.
When looking at French pages, I often noticed that there were quite
a few strings which are trivially to handle. Sometimes upstream
just removed or added spaces after full stops, corrected a link or
a typo ...
Another example from today: wget.1.po was checked in today,
unfortunately not completely translated. However, one missing
string was just a typo away from an already translated string and
others were trivially to handle (e.g. version numbers), so I could
almost complete the part of OpenSUES Leap as well, even without
French knowledge.
I noticed (and sometimes handled) similiar issues in the past as well,
but doing this more systematically of course requires some time. And
since I don't speak French, I can only perform trivial updates and some
easy fixes (if I knew French), i.e. "low hanging fruits" I have to
skip.
I hope the above might give you some ideas how to improve the quality
and number of translated pages into French; again, if any (or all) of
this is not applicable, please ignore.
Greetings
Helge
Here is the current list (as of this morning) of pages which are close
to reach 80%:
argz_add.3
basename.3
blkdiscard.8
capabilities.7
core.5
ctime.3
daemon.3
drand48_r.3
dumpe2fs.8
ecvt.3
envz_add.3
filesystems.5
finite.3
fnmatch.3
fsck.minix.8
fsfreeze.8
fstrim.8
ftw.3
getauxval.3
getcontext.3
getfsent.3
getgrent_r.3
gethostbyname.3
getlogin.3
getmntent.3
getnetent.3
getprotoent.3
getpwent_r.3
getservent.3
host.conf.5
intro.5
isosize.8
j0.3
kill.1
ldattach.8
libblkid.3
locale.5
lseek64.3
mbstowcs.3
mem.4
mke2fs.8
mke2fs.conf.5
mkfs.8
mkfs.minix.8
motd.5
nfsidmap.5
openpty.3
pacman-conf.8
pivot_root.8
popen.3
pow10.3
pthread_create.3
ptsname.3
qecvt.3
random.3
rcmd.3
regex.3
resize2fs.8
rtnetlink.3
securetty.5
setarch.8
setnetgrent.3
setterm.1
sigprocmask.2
sigsetops.3
sk98lin.4
splice.2
statfs.2
statvfs.3
syslog.2
syslog.3
system.3
tcp.7
timegm.3
timer_create.2
timerfd_create.2
ttyname.3
tune2fs.8
undocumented.3
vmsplice.2
wait.2
wait4.2
wdctl.8
write.2
zdump.8
Hi,
Le 18/04/2022 à 13:17, Helge Kreutzmann a écrit :
Hello fellow manpage translators,
I made some observations when watching the French updates which I
would like to share with you. Please kindly disregard them if they are obvious, done on purpose or do not apply; I'm not speaking French and
I'm not involved in any discussion regarding French translation, hence these observations might be totally not applicable.
Thanks for your message, it is useful to see how we can do better
Without further ado:
1. After completing a translation, it is quite helpful to reformat it,
either before committing or in a second commit. This has two
benefits:
a) If there are any syntax errors, you immediately spot this.
b) Further scripts do not touch the file simply for reformatting,
making the "git diff" better to read.
I apply hooks/pre-commit in my git command. Is this enough?
2. If a translation has been proofread, it is usually quite helpful to
immediately (after reformatting) add it to the compendium
(../use-for-compendium.sh manx/foo.x.po)
and then update all translations
../update-translations.sh
To be honest I am not completely confortable with compendium stuff, so
ok, I add those 2 commands to my automated committing scripts and we
will see the result. I trust you.
Before committing, "git diff" is quite helpful.
This has two benefits:
a) In many cases, other man page translations (fuzzy strings, missing
strings) are updated as well, easing the work and bringing more
pages over 80% (and thus the translations to users).
b) This is an extra check; in my recent updates I noticed errors
when performing these steps, especially during the final "git diff",
which I corrected, even though I do not speak French.
Could you give an example please? I dont feel good to review again via
git diff before commit but if something was not seen by our review
process, I can try for it to eliminate this kind of typo
3. I'm not sure about your systematics, but I do notice that quite a
few man pages are close to complete or close to reach the 80%
threshhold. Once they are at 80% they are shipped to users. Of
course, sometimes you do not want them to be shipped (unless 100%),
maybe because of problematic strings, so this might be deliberate.
However, when prioritizing, looking at
https://manpages-l10n-team.pages.debian.net/manpages-l10n/debian-unstable-fr.html
(and similarly for all other distros like Arch, Fedora, ...) you
can notice that several man pages just lack one or two strings to
reach 80% (and using the compendium, see 2., the number of these
pages maybe reduced even further).
I regularly build all man pages and provide you a list of all pages
between 70%-79% below. In case you would like to receive this list
regularly, I can try to set this up (but the web listing above
should cover this nicely as well).
Many thanks. So far I just go forward following the alphabetic order.
Because I want to avoid the risk of duplicate work with other
translators, without needing to use an ITT message to the list. It would require a good coordination process. But why not, according to what
others think.
4. Check for similar strings or easy unfuzzy after upstream updates.
When looking at French pages, I often noticed that there were quite
a few strings which are trivially to handle. Sometimes upstream
just removed or added spaces after full stops, corrected a link or
a typo ...
Indeed, unfortunately. It completely disappointed me last months to
review man1 due to this. A pain! Thanks to Jean-Pierre who tries to
catch up this.
Another example from today: wget.1.po was checked in today,
unfortunately not completely translated. However, one missing
string was just a typo away from an already translated string and
others were trivially to handle (e.g. version numbers), so I could
almost complete the part of OpenSUES Leap as well, even without
French knowledge.
I noticed (and sometimes handled) similiar issues in the past as well,
but doing this more systematically of course requires some time. And
since I don't speak French, I can only perform trivial updates and some easy fixes (if I knew French), i.e. "low hanging fruits" I have to
skip.
What is your approach? Reviewing this manually is really a pain for me.
Any suggestion to reduce the needed work is welcome.
I hope the above might give you some ideas how to improve the quality
and number of translated pages into French; again, if any (or all) of
this is not applicable, please ignore.
Many thanks!
Regards
Greetings
Helge
Here is the current list (as of this morning) of pages which are close
to reach 80%:
argz_add.3
basename.3
blkdiscard.8
capabilities.7
core.5
ctime.3
daemon.3
drand48_r.3
dumpe2fs.8
ecvt.3
envz_add.3
filesystems.5
finite.3
fnmatch.3
fsck.minix.8
fsfreeze.8
fstrim.8
ftw.3
getauxval.3
getcontext.3
getfsent.3
getgrent_r.3
gethostbyname.3
getlogin.3
getmntent.3
getnetent.3
getprotoent.3
getpwent_r.3
getservent.3
host.conf.5
intro.5
isosize.8
j0.3
kill.1
ldattach.8
libblkid.3
locale.5
lseek64.3
mbstowcs.3
mem.4
mke2fs.8
mke2fs.conf.5
mkfs.8
mkfs.minix.8
motd.5
nfsidmap.5
openpty.3
pacman-conf.8
pivot_root.8
popen.3
pow10.3
pthread_create.3
ptsname.3
qecvt.3
random.3
rcmd.3
regex.3
resize2fs.8
rtnetlink.3
securetty.5
setarch.8
setnetgrent.3
setterm.1
sigprocmask.2
sigsetops.3
sk98lin.4
splice.2
statfs.2
statvfs.3
syslog.2
syslog.3
system.3
tcp.7
timegm.3
timer_create.2
timerfd_create.2
ttyname.3
tune2fs.8
undocumented.3
vmsplice.2
wait.2
wait4.2
wdctl.8
write.2
zdump.8
Le 18/04/2022 à 13:17, Helge Kreutzmann a écrit :
Hello fellow manpage translators,
I made some observations when watching the French updates which I
would like to share with you. Please kindly disregard them if they are obvious, done on purpose or do not apply; I'm not speaking French and
I'm not involved in any discussion regarding French translation, hence these observations might be totally not applicable.
Thanks for your message, it is useful to see how we can do better
Without further ado:
1. After completing a translation, it is quite helpful to reformat it,
either before committing or in a second commit. This has two
benefits:
a) If there are any syntax errors, you immediately spot this.
b) Further scripts do not touch the file simply for reformatting,
making the "git diff" better to read.
I apply hooks/pre-commit in my git command. Is this enough?
2. If a translation has been proofread, it is usually quite helpful to
immediately (after reformatting) add it to the compendium
(../use-for-compendium.sh manx/foo.x.po)
and then update all translations
../update-translations.sh
To be honest I am not completely confortable with compendium stuff, so ok, I add those 2 commands to my automated committing scripts and we will see the result. I trust you.
Before committing, "git diff" is quite helpful.
This has two benefits:
a) In many cases, other man page translations (fuzzy strings, missing
strings) are updated as well, easing the work and bringing more
pages over 80% (and thus the translations to users).
b) This is an extra check; in my recent updates I noticed errors
when performing these steps, especially during the final "git diff",
which I corrected, even though I do not speak French.
Could you give an example please? I dont feel good to review again via git diff before commit but if something was not seen by our review process, I
can try for it to eliminate this kind of typo
3. I'm not sure about your systematics, but I do notice that quite a
few man pages are close to complete or close to reach the 80%
threshhold. Once they are at 80% they are shipped to users. Of
course, sometimes you do not want them to be shipped (unless 100%),
maybe because of problematic strings, so this might be deliberate.
However, when prioritizing, looking at
https://manpages-l10n-team.pages.debian.net/manpages-l10n/debian-unstable-fr.html
(and similarly for all other distros like Arch, Fedora, ...) you
can notice that several man pages just lack one or two strings to
reach 80% (and using the compendium, see 2., the number of these
pages maybe reduced even further).
I regularly build all man pages and provide you a list of all pages
between 70%-79% below. In case you would like to receive this list
regularly, I can try to set this up (but the web listing above
should cover this nicely as well).
Many thanks. So far I just go forward following the alphabetic order.
Because I want to avoid the risk of duplicate work with other translators, without needing to use an ITT message to the list. It would require a good coordination process. But why not, according to what others think.
4. Check for similar strings or easy unfuzzy after upstream updates.
When looking at French pages, I often noticed that there were quite
a few strings which are trivially to handle. Sometimes upstream
just removed or added spaces after full stops, corrected a link or
a typo ...
Indeed, unfortunately. It completely disappointed me last months to review man1 due to this. A pain! Thanks to Jean-Pierre who tries to catch up this.
Another example from today: wget.1.po was checked in today,
unfortunately not completely translated. However, one missing
string was just a typo away from an already translated string and
others were trivially to handle (e.g. version numbers), so I could
almost complete the part of OpenSUES Leap as well, even without
French knowledge.
I noticed (and sometimes handled) similiar issues in the past as well,
but doing this more systematically of course requires some time. And
since I don't speak French, I can only perform trivial updates and some easy fixes (if I knew French), i.e. "low hanging fruits" I have to
skip.
What is your approach? Reviewing this manually is really a pain for me. Any suggestion to reduce the needed work is welcome.
Reformatting is not mandatory, but recommended. But it is very helpful
2. If a translation has been proofread, it is usually quite helpful to
immediately (after reformatting) add it to the compendium
(../use-for-compendium.sh manx/foo.x.po)
and then update all translations
../update-translations.sh
to add the file to the compendium. And also ../update-translations is
not urgently needed, because it is very time-consuming and will be run
during each upstream update every two or three weeks. To benefit from
recent compendium additions/changes, you should update a certain file
which you like to edit (using ../update-po.sh) to get it in sync with
other files.
To be honest I am not completely confortable with compendium stuff, so
ok, I add those 2 commands to my automated committing scripts and we
will see the result. I trust you.
Before committing, "git diff" is quite helpful.
This has two benefits:
a) In many cases, other man page translations (fuzzy strings, missing >>> strings) are updated as well, easing the work and bringing more
pages over 80% (and thus the translations to users).
b) This is an extra check; in my recent updates I noticed errors
when performing these steps, especially during the final "git diff",
which I corrected, even though I do not speak French.
Could you give an example please? I dont feel good to review again via
git diff before commit but if something was not seen by our review
process, I can try for it to eliminate this kind of typo
3. I'm not sure about your systematics, but I do notice that quite a
few man pages are close to complete or close to reach the 80%
threshhold. Once they are at 80% they are shipped to users. Of
course, sometimes you do not want them to be shipped (unless 100%), >>> maybe because of problematic strings, so this might be deliberate.
However, when prioritizing, looking at
https://manpages-l10n-team.pages.debian.net/manpages-l10n/debian-unstable-fr.html
(and similarly for all other distros like Arch, Fedora, ...) you
can notice that several man pages just lack one or two strings to
reach 80% (and using the compendium, see 2., the number of these
pages maybe reduced even further).
I regularly build all man pages and provide you a list of all pages >>> between 70%-79% below. In case you would like to receive this list
regularly, I can try to set this up (but the web listing above
should cover this nicely as well).
Many thanks. So far I just go forward following the alphabetic order.
Because I want to avoid the risk of duplicate work with other
translators, without needing to use an ITT message to the list. It would
require a good coordination process. But why not, according to what
others think.
With every upstream update, before I update the .po files, I try to
find out what can be easily updated without speaking all our supported languages. Then I update strings in the compendium files which
containstuff which needs only to be copied or, for example, in already translated strings which became fuzzy due to a changed version number
or so.
4. Check for similar strings or easy unfuzzy after upstream updates.
When looking at French pages, I often noticed that there were quite >>> a few strings which are trivially to handle. Sometimes upstream
just removed or added spaces after full stops, corrected a link or
a typo ...
Indeed, unfortunately. It completely disappointed me last months to
review man1 due to this. A pain! Thanks to Jean-Pierre who tries to
catch up this.
To mention, most of the changes in util-linux translations are the
result of a code base change from pure groff/mdoc to Asciidoctor. I've
done this migration, and I've fixed lots of misformatting and many
more.
Another example from today: wget.1.po was checked in today,
unfortunately not completely translated. However, one missing
string was just a typo away from an already translated string and
others were trivially to handle (e.g. version numbers), so I could
almost complete the part of OpenSUES Leap as well, even without
French knowledge.
I noticed (and sometimes handled) similiar issues in the past as well,
but doing this more systematically of course requires some time. And
since I don't speak French, I can only perform trivial updates and some
easy fixes (if I knew French), i.e. "low hanging fruits" I have to
skip.
What is your approach? Reviewing this manually is really a pain for me.
Any suggestion to reduce the needed work is welcome.
See above. Make more use of the compendium, this reduces your workload significantly. But remember, the manpages-fr project was actually dead
for a few years, and it is normal that it takes more time to get it in
an up-to-date shape again.
Best Regards,
Mario
I hope the above might give you some ideas how to improve the quality
and number of translated pages into French; again, if any (or all) of
this is not applicable, please ignore.
Many thanks!
Regards
Greetings
Helge
Here is the current list (as of this morning) of pages which are close
to reach 80%:
argz_add.3
basename.3
blkdiscard.8
capabilities.7
core.5
ctime.3
daemon.3
drand48_r.3
dumpe2fs.8
ecvt.3
envz_add.3
filesystems.5
finite.3
fnmatch.3
fsck.minix.8
fsfreeze.8
fstrim.8
ftw.3
getauxval.3
getcontext.3
getfsent.3
getgrent_r.3
gethostbyname.3
getlogin.3
getmntent.3
getnetent.3
getprotoent.3
getpwent_r.3
getservent.3
host.conf.5
intro.5
isosize.8
j0.3
kill.1
ldattach.8
libblkid.3
locale.5
lseek64.3
mbstowcs.3
mem.4
mke2fs.8
mke2fs.conf.5
mkfs.8
mkfs.minix.8
motd.5
nfsidmap.5
openpty.3
pacman-conf.8
pivot_root.8
popen.3
pow10.3
pthread_create.3
ptsname.3
qecvt.3
random.3
rcmd.3
regex.3
resize2fs.8
rtnetlink.3
securetty.5
setarch.8
setnetgrent.3
setterm.1
sigprocmask.2
sigsetops.3
sk98lin.4
splice.2
statfs.2
statvfs.3
syslog.2
syslog.3
system.3
tcp.7
timegm.3
timer_create.2
timerfd_create.2
ttyname.3
tune2fs.8
undocumented.3
vmsplice.2
wait.2
wait4.2
wdctl.8
write.2
zdump.8
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 299 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 42:16:53 |
| Calls: | 6,682 |
| Files: | 12,225 |
| Messages: | 5,343,574 |