• (No Subject)

    From Hunter Wittenborn@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 21 11:50:01 2021
    I'm continuing to look around at things - do all packages, even those in non-free, have to have an accompanying .dsc file to be in the Debian repositories?
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">I'm continuing to
    look around at things - do all packages, even those in non-free, have to have an accompanying .dsc file to be in the Debian repositories?<br></div><br></body></html>

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  • From Hunter Wittenborn@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 21 11:50:01 2021
    <mailto:mechtilde@debian.org>

    If yes, then try to build it from its source. Then it can be published in main



    <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>

    Why are you putting the package in non-free ?

    What license did you put your software under ?



    makedeb is licensed under the GPL3 license.



    The goal was to be able to just distribute the binary form of the packages, as that's all that I get/use when I build it myself (the helper application, makepkg, handles all the source files, and the rest is just built into a binary package with makedeb
    itself).



    <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>

    There's rule regarding GPL software and packaging that must be followed...



    I was looking at the following in the Debian Policy, which was leading me to believe it would be fine:



    "The non-free archive area contains supplemental packages intended to work with the Debian distribution that do not comply with the DFSG or have other problems that make their distribution problematic."



    In this case the problems would be lack of a source package. Is there someplace else that says GPL programs have to be distributed under source packages?



    <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>

    I'd also suggest that you publish your package somewhere on a public server.



    As per the repository on GitHub, I've also got a repository and a complimentary signing key set up. Albeit the repository itself is managed through an Artifactory-type program, I'm decently knowledgeable on the layout of Debian repositories themselves.



    I do think I need to get my package set up to be compliant though, such as the section and priority for it, but I don't see that taking more than a few minutes to set everything in the control file.



    Let me know if any of you have comments or feedback on anything.
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>&lt;<a
    target="_blank" href="mailto:mechtilde@debian.org">mechtilde@debian.org</a>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; If yes, then try to build it from its source. Then it can be published in main<br></div><div><br></div><div>&lt;<a target="_blank" href="mailto:debian@
    polynamaude.com">debian@polynamaude.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; Why are you putting the package in non-free ?<br></div><div>&gt; What license did you put your software under ?<br></div><div><br></div><div>makedeb is licensed under the GPL3 license.<br>
    </div><div><br></div><div>The goal was to be able to just distribute the binary form of the packages, as that's all that I get/use when I build it myself (the helper application, makepkg, handles all the source files, and the rest is just built into a
    binary package with makedeb itself).<br></div><div><br></div><div>&lt;<a target="_blank" href="mailto:debian@polynamaude.com">debian@polynamaude.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; There's rule regarding GPL software and packaging that must be followed...<br><
    /div><div><br></div><div>I was looking at the following in the Debian Policy, which was leading me to believe it would be fine:<br></div><div><br></div><div>"The non-free archive area contains supplemental packages intended to work with the Debian
    distribution that do not comply with the DFSG or have other problems that make their distribution problematic."<br></div><div><br></div><div>In this case the problems would be lack of a source package. Is there someplace else that says GPL programs have
    to be distributed under source packages?<br></div><div><br></div><div>&lt;<a target="_blank" href="mailto:debian@polynamaude.com">debian@polynamaude.com</a>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; I'd also suggest that you publish your package somewhere on a public
    server.<br></div><div><br></div><div>As per the repository on GitHub, I've also got a repository and a complimentary signing key set up. Albeit the repository itself is managed through an Artifactory-type program, I'm decently knowledgeable on the layout
    of Debian repositories themselves.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I do think I need to get my package set up to be compliant though, such as the section and priority for it, but I don't see that taking more than a few minutes to set everything in the
    control file.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Let me know if any of you have comments or feedback on anything.<br></div></div><br></body></html>

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  • From Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside@21:1/5 to Mentors Mailing List (Debian) on Fri May 21 13:00:02 2021
    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --8IuF1lkJ3GfaYa4a2r3PWx3f6UUeRd9Ok
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
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    Hi !


    On 2021-05-21 5:43 a.m., Hunter Wittenborn wrote:
    I'm continuing to look around at things - do all packages, even those in non-free, have to have an accompanying .dsc file to be in the Debian repositories?


    Like I already wrote, there's much to read before your package get
    submitted. And you question is showing exactly this....

    You don't submit binary, you submit a source code and automatic build
    machine (computer) will produce the different binaries for all the architectures used by Debian, will do some validation, etc.

    So yes a .DSC is needed as it's the basic.

    Have you ever tried using dh_make ?

    Have you tried compiling some package from Debian ??

    Do the following :

    mkdir tmp
    cd tmp
    apt-get source emacs
    cd emacs-*
    debuild

    and see the magic happens.
    In the end you'll get a .build file.
    Open this one and look at the lines around the end of file.
    You'll see some testing done against the binary package to ensure it is compliant with the rules Debian enforced for package.

    Make you shall start from there (oh yes and RTFM Debian New Maintainer
    Guide / Developer).
    --
    Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
    -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


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  • From The Wanderer@21:1/5 to Hunter Wittenborn on Fri May 21 12:20:01 2021
    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
    On 2021-05-21 at 05:40, Hunter Wittenborn wrote:

    <mailto:mechtilde@debian.org>

    If yes, then try to build it from its source. Then it can be
    published in main


    <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>

    Why are you putting the package in non-free ?

    What license did you put your software under ?

    makedeb is licensed under the GPL3 license.

    The goal was to be able to just distribute the binary form of the
    packages, as that's all that I get/use when I build it myself (the
    helper application, makepkg, handles all the source files, and the
    rest is just built into a binary package with makedeb itself).

    So... are you trying to get makedeb into Debian, or just the packages
    which makedeb creates?

    If you want to get makedeb into Debian, then you'll need to build a
    Debian source package for it. Since the source is GPLv3, there's no
    obvious reason why it would need to go into non-free; if (as I suspect
    is likely) the package formats it is capable of taking as input are
    created by and are available containing software which is itself DFSG-compliant, there's probably also no reason why it would need to go
    into contrib. At that point, it would fit into main.

    If on the other hand you want to get the packages created by makedeb
    into Debian, you're probably out of luck. In order to get into Debian, a package must start out in the form which is called a Debian source
    package; that's the form that includes a .dsc, et cetera. From there, it
    must be compiled into a .deb on the build-daemon (buildd) servers, by
    the usual Debian package-build mechanisms which take source packages as
    their input.

    <mailto:debian@polynamaude.com>

    There's rule regarding GPL software and packaging that must be
    followed...

    I was looking at the following in the Debian Policy, which was
    leading me to believe it would be fine:

    "The non-free archive area contains supplemental packages intended to
    work with the Debian distribution that do not comply with the DFSG or
    have other problems that make their distribution problematic."

    In this case the problems would be lack of a source package. Is there someplace else that says GPL programs have to be distributed under
    source packages?

    That would be the fact that the people who manage the Debian archive,
    and I think nowadays the tooling they use to do so, will not accept
    anything other than a source package as input for going into that archive.

    If you want a reference link for it, [1] was the first thing I found; it explains the reasons behind requiring a source package well enough, and
    does also state that one is required for entry into the Debian archive, although it doesn't explain why for that latter. I don't find a
    reference link for that latter myself just offhand, but it's been
    discussed in these mailing lists often enough.

    [1] https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/SourcePackage#Why_bother_with_source_package_if_there_is_a_binary_package_.3F

    --
    The Wanderer

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
    persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
    progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw


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  • From Hunter Wittenborn@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 21 13:40:01 2021
    If you want to get makedeb into Debian, then you'll need to build a Debian source package for it.

     If on the other hand you want to get the packages created by makedeb into Debian, you're probably out of luck.





     The complete build system is based on a .dsc file and this does more than only run a gcc build on your application or package it into a .tar.gz file !



    That and the links all make sense, I'll see what I can do.



    Thanks,
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div class="zmail_
    extra" data-zbluepencil-ignore="true" style=""><blockquote style="margin: 0px;"><div>&gt; If you want to get makedeb into Debian, then you'll need to build a Debian source package for it.<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;If on the other hand you want to get the
    packages created by makedeb into Debian, you're probably out of luck.<br></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;The complete build system is based on a .dsc file and this does more than only run a gcc build on your application or package
    it into a .tar.gz file !<br></div><div><br></div><div>That and the links all make sense, I'll see what I can do.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div></div><br></body></html>

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  • From The Wanderer@21:1/5 to Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside on Fri May 21 14:00:01 2021
    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
    On 2021-05-21 at 07:44, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

    Hi,

    On 2021-05-21 7:30 a.m., Hunter Wittenborn wrote:

    If you want to get makedeb into Debian, then you'll need to
    build a Debian source package for it.

    If on the other hand you want to get the packages created by
    makedeb into Debian, you're probably out of luck.

    (For awareness, the above - though quoted by Hunter Wittenborn - was
    actually written by me.)

    The only build system in Debian is Debian's build system based on
    .dsc source file.

    In theory, it would probably be possible to have a program which takes
    as input a third-party package and transforms it into a Debian source
    package, then builds that into a .deb using Debian's build tools. The
    resulting intermediate-step source package could then, theoretically, be submitted for inclusion in Debian. It would be theoretically possible
    for something like makedeb to be modified to use that method, rather
    than producing .debs directly.

    In practice this would be unlikely to produce an acceptable source-based
    build (because of the "preferred form for modification" rule), so it'd
    only be viable for things that would have to go into non-free because of
    being opaque binary blobs to begin with - and for those I'm not sure
    there'd be much benefit from such a tool. But I'm not willing to
    entirely exclude it from first concepts.

    --
    The Wanderer

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
    persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
    progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw


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  • From Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside@21:1/5 to Hunter Wittenborn on Fri May 21 13:20:01 2021
    Copy: debian-mentors@lists.debian.org (Mentors Mailing List (Debian))

    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --b9EmOPMQUZ456vCzCFaDXYifj30FLOsRT
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
    Content-Language: en-US
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi !

    On 2021-05-21 5:43 a.m., Hunter Wittenborn wrote:
    I'm continuing to look around at things - do all packages, even those in non-free, have to have an accompanying .dsc file to be in the Debian repositories?


    The complete build system is based on a .dsc file and this does more
    than only run a gcc build on your application or package it into a
    .tar.gz file !

    This is what I called "Debian rules" for package : https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.en.html

    For example the file called "watch" is used to check if you published a
    new version of your software and build it if needed, all automatic.

    Maybe this could be useful for you :
    Prospective developer https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/beyond-pkging.en.html#interacting-with-prospective-debian-developers

    New maintainer guide (1st step) : https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/first.en.html

    All the stuff I already sent you and that I found just looking at the
    table of content.
    --
    Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
    -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


    --b9EmOPMQUZ456vCzCFaDXYifj30FLOsRT--

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  • From Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside@21:1/5 to Hunter Wittenborn on Fri May 21 13:50:01 2021
    Copy: debian-mentors@lists.debian.org (Mentors Mailing List (Debian))

    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --EP6lcYuiJQZtqr7cPdAoFMTbi96jIBlZu
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
    Content-Language: en-US
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

    Hi,

    On 2021-05-21 7:30 a.m., Hunter Wittenborn wrote:
    > If you want to get makedeb into Debian, then you'll need to build
    a Debian source package for it.
    > If on the other hand you want to get the packages created by
    makedeb into Debian, you're probably out of luck.


    The only build system in Debian is Debian's build system based on .dsc
    source file.

     The complete build system is based on a .dsc file and this does more
    than only run a gcc build on your application or package it into a
    .tar.gz file !

    That and the links all make sense, I'll see what I can do.


    Just checked the number of package for distributions
    Arch : 11 978 (based on https://archlinux.org/packages/ )
    Debian : Over 20 000 (based on https://ircbots.debian.net/stats/ )

    I'm asking myself how many package are only available in Arch and not in Debian....Because if they are available in Ubuntu or whatever distro
    using debian package then it's easy to compile without changes.

    Thanks,


    --
    Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
    -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


    --EP6lcYuiJQZtqr7cPdAoFMTbi96jIBlZu--

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  • From Hunter Wittenborn@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 21 14:30:01 2021
     I'm asking myself how many package are only available in Arch and not in Debian.



    Support for Arch Linux packages on Debian was a byproduct of makedeb, but the main goal is to just provide an alternative to the Debian source package format.



    On the topic of Arch Linux though, makedeb (and more specifically a side project for it) gives support for the AUR, which has quite a few packages not available in the Debian repos (most notably those with license issues).



    I also use it to get some up-to-date packages from the Arch repositories on my Ubuntu system, which helps to avoid a ton of extra repositories and PPAs.





    Regardless of all that though, I think I got what I need to be able to start somewhere.



    Again, thanks for the help.
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"><html><head><meta content="text/html;charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"></head><body ><div style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>&gt;&nbsp;I'
    m asking myself how many package are only available in Arch and not in Debian.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Support for Arch Linux packages on Debian was a byproduct of makedeb, but the main goal is to just provide an alternative to the Debian source
    package format.<br></div><div><br></div><div>On the topic of Arch Linux though, makedeb (and more specifically a side project for it) gives support for the AUR, which has <i>quite</i> a few packages not available in the Debian repos (most notably those
    with license issues).<br></div><div><br></div><div>I also use it to get some up-to-date packages from the Arch repositories on my Ubuntu system, which helps to avoid a ton of extra repositories and PPAs.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>
    Regardless of all that though, I think I got what I need to be able to start somewhere.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Again, thanks for the help.<br></div></div><br></body></html>

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  • From Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside@21:1/5 to Hunter Wittenborn on Fri May 21 19:50:01 2021
    Copy: debian-mentors@lists.debian.org (Mentors Mailing List (Debian))

    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --z0Vc2ILjdZoUw0qq3d2Q4Y23wsTns8SWN
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    On 2021-05-21 8:25 a.m., Hunter Wittenborn wrote:
     I'm asking myself how many package are only available in Arch and
    not
    in Debian.

    Support for Arch Linux packages on Debian was a byproduct of makedeb,
    but the main goal is to just provide an alternative to the Debian source package format.

    On the topic of Arch Linux though, makedeb (and more specifically a side project for it) gives support for the AUR, which has /quite/ a few
    packages not available in the Debian repos (most notably those with
    license issues).

    I also use it to get some up-to-date packages from the Arch repositories
    on my Ubuntu system, which helps to avoid a ton of extra repositories
    and PPAs.

    I can understand your use but like I've just had a long talk on the
    debian-user mailing list, building "franken-debian" cause many problem
    with support.

    There's one reason why Debian offer more stability over many other distributions of Linux. It's because the review process is long and
    complete, that it ensure there's not breaking change done and not subtle
    bugs that arise.

    So by creating a system that "only you may have" make it impossible for
    other to reproduce errors you may have and leave yourself much on your own.

    Everything is related to a balance between choices.
    You get all the latest bell and whistles or
    You get something stable and tested


    Regardless of all that though, I think I got what I need to be able to
    start somewhere.

    Again, thanks for the help.


    --
    Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
    -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development


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