• Re: WNPP Update Package source source of gjiten

    From Andrey Rahmatullin@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 09:10:02 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 03:58:16PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    Hello,


    I'm working on the "Gjiten" package* ([1]). It was kind of abandoned and used Gtk2.
    I upgraded it to Gtk3 and did some further development on it (see [2]).

    I'd like to get the new codebase into the debian repos. If I understand correctly, I need a sponsor for that(?) Is there anyone willing to sponsor the package?
    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From notebook@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 5 09:00:01 2021
    Hello,


    I'm working on the "Gjiten" package* ([1]). It was kind of abandoned and used Gtk2.
    I upgraded it to Gtk3 and did some further development on it (see [2]).

    I'd like to get the new codebase into the debian repos. If I understand correctly, I need a sponsor for that(?) Is there anyone willing to sponsor the package?


    * Gjiten is a japanese dictionary for edict files, including a kanjidictionary.


    References
    -------------

    [1] GJiten on debian https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=gjiten


    [2] GJiten version 3.1
    https://github.com/DarkTrick/gjiten/tree/gjiten-3.1


    -- Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tobias Frost@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 09:50:02 2021
    Hi Chris,

    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 04:25:44PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    Hello Andrey:

    Thank you for your reply!

    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.

    Did you get any response?

    Otherwise, we have the ITS procedure if you want to take over package maintainership:
    https://wiki.debian.org/PackageSalvaging (from a very quick look at the package, it seems to be eligible for ITS)

    --
    tobi

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From notebook@21:1/5 to Andrey Rahmatullin on Tue Oct 5 09:30:02 2021
    Hello Andrey:

    Thank you for your reply!

    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.
    So I guess whatever is in place must be replaced.

    -- Chris


    On 2021/10/05 16:03, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 03:58:16PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    Hello,


    I'm working on the "Gjiten" package* ([1]). It was kind of abandoned and used Gtk2.
    I upgraded it to Gtk3 and did some further development on it (see [2]).

    I'd like to get the new codebase into the debian repos. If I understand correctly, I need a sponsor for that(?) Is there anyone willing to sponsor the package?
    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrey Rahmatullin@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 09:50:02 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 04:25:44PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    Hello Andrey:

    Thank you for your reply!

    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.
    So I guess whatever is in place must be replaced.
    If you want to become a co-maintainer of the package in Debian you should
    get an agreement for this from the current maintainers, then prepare a new source package and seek sponsorship. If, on the other hand, you just want
    that the package in Debian uses your updated code, you don't need to (and can't) do anything in addition to what you already did.

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Andrey Rahmatullin@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 11:30:02 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 06:20:11PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    [Andrey Rahmatullin:]
    If, on the other hand, you just want
    that the package in Debian uses your updated code, you don't need to (and can't) do anything in addition to what you already did.

    Just for future reference:

    "what you did" means
    (1) Writing here in debian-mentors and hoping for someone to do the job?
    or
    (2) Filing the bug (#982343) on bugs.debian?
    (2)

    [Tobias Frost:]
    Otherwise, we have the ITS procedure if you want to take over package maintainership:
    https://wiki.debian.org/PackageSalvaging (from a very quick look at the package, it seems to be eligible for ITS)


    It's not really clear to me what the result of package salvaging is. I
    guess it would make me a maintainer?
    Yes.

    Background:
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all
    the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and guideline.
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires
    that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From notebook@21:1/5 to Andrey Rahmatullin on Tue Oct 5 11:40:02 2021
    [Me]
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all
    the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and
    guideline.

    [Andrey]
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.

    And so my hopes of ever getting the new source in place drop away. 😅💦💦

    That sounds like a very lot of time for deploying. Is there a reason for having a system that time-consuming? It feels like the deploy takes away valuable that could be spend developing... Or are you talking about the time for "first-timers"?


    [Andrey]
    I [...] you just want that the package in Debian uses your updated code, you don't need to (and can't) do anything in addition to [Filing the bug (#982343) on bugs.debian]

    Thank you for clearing things up! 🙂


    -- Chris

    On 2021/10/05 18:24, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 06:20:11PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    [Andrey Rahmatullin:]
    If, on the other hand, you just want
    that the package in Debian uses your updated code, you don't need to (and >>> can't) do anything in addition to what you already did.

    Just for future reference:

    "what you did" means
    (1) Writing here in debian-mentors and hoping for someone to do the job?
    or
    (2) Filing the bug (#982343) on bugs.debian?
    (2)

    [Tobias Frost:]
    Otherwise, we have the ITS procedure if you want to take over package maintainership:
    https://wiki.debian.org/PackageSalvaging (from a very quick look at the package, it seems to be eligible for ITS)


    It's not really clear to me what the result of package salvaging is. I
    guess it would make me a maintainer?
    Yes.

    Background:
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all
    the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and
    guideline.
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrey Rahmatullin@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 12:20:02 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 06:35:34PM +0900, notebook wrote:

    [Me]
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and guideline.

    [Andrey]
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.

    And so my hopes of ever getting the new source in place drop away. 😅💦💦

    That sounds like a very lot of time for deploying. Is there a reason for having a system that time-consuming?
    Many of them.

    It feels like the deploy takes away valuable that could be spend developing...
    Maintainers are usually not developers of the same project so this is irrelevant.

    Or are you talking about the time for "first-timers"?
    Mostly.


    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Geert Stappers@21:1/5 to Tobias Frost on Tue Oct 5 12:50:01 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 09:41:09AM +0200, Tobias Frost wrote:
    Hi Chris,

    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 04:25:44PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    Hello Andrey:

    Thank you for your reply!

    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.

    Did you get any response?

    Better question:
    How were those contact attempts done?


    Otherwise, we have the ITS procedure if you want to take over package maintainership:
    https://wiki.debian.org/PackageSalvaging (from a very quick look at the package, it seems to be eligible for ITS)


    Groeten
    Geert Stappers
    --
    Silence is hard to parse

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  • From Tobias Frost@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 12:30:01 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 06:35:34PM +0900, notebook wrote:

    [Me]
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and guideline.

    [Andrey]
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.

    And so my hopes of ever getting the new source in place drop away. 😅💦💦

    Well, this is a 100% volunteer project, but the good thing is that everyone can volunteer and contribute. Debian is a do-ocracy [1], so if you really want that new version so hard that you need to use tear emojis, your best bet is to get involved yourself. [2]

    [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/ch02.en.html#social
    [2] or pay somone, eg a freelancer, to do the work for you.

    That sounds like a very lot of time for deploying. Is there a reason for having a system that time-consuming? It feels like the deploy takes away valuable that could be spend developing... Or are you talking about the time for "first-timers"?

    For sure, the first package is the hardest, but the learning curve is steep.

    My 2 cents:
    And very likely you dont need to know everything by hearth at the beginning, learning is continious experience and with an existing package, the QA tools available in Debian (e.g lintian), the review process in mentors, you
    need not be scared of the complexity, as you have an existing package you
    could start off. It might be outdated, but the efforts are not from zero.

    Debian is well known for its high quality packages, and the knowledge of
    Debian packaging is one big part of ensuring the quality level. And with that knowledge, packaging won't be too time consuming. So it is an investment.

    Debians quality standards exceeds "[just] deploying", so the developement work done for packaging is usually very well spent time. Development is not only about features, as you know, but integrating it well into the system is very important too.

    --
    tobi



    [Andrey]
    I [...] you just want that the package in Debian uses your updated code, you don't need to (and can't) do anything in addition to [Filing the bug (#982343) on bugs.debian]

    Thank you for clearing things up! 🙂




    -- Chris

    On 2021/10/05 18:24, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 06:20:11PM +0900, notebook wrote:
    [Andrey Rahmatullin:]
    If, on the other hand, you just want
    that the package in Debian uses your updated code, you don't need to (and
    can't) do anything in addition to what you already did.

    Just for future reference:

    "what you did" means
    (1) Writing here in debian-mentors and hoping for someone to do the job? or
    (2) Filing the bug (#982343) on bugs.debian?
    (2)

    [Tobias Frost:]
    Otherwise, we have the ITS procedure if you want to take over package maintainership:
    https://wiki.debian.org/PackageSalvaging (from a very quick look at the package, it seems to be eligible for ITS)


    It's not really clear to me what the result of package salvaging is. I guess it would make me a maintainer?
    Yes.

    Background:
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and guideline.
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From notebook@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 5 13:30:01 2021
    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current
    maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.

    Did you get any response?

    Better question:
    How were those contact attempts done?

    I contacted them via their mails stated on debian.
    One mail was already dead (or I never received a reply). And one stated he's too busy too work on it.


    -- Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Matthew Fernandez@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 5 17:00:01 2021
    On Oct 5, 2021, at 03:27, Tobias Frost <tobi@debian.org> wrote:

    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 06:35:34PM +0900, notebook wrote:

    [Me]
    It looks like becoming a maintainer requires 40+ hours to go through all >>>> the "must read" articles and becoming accustomed to every procedure and >>>> guideline.

    [Andrey]
    Actually, even providing a source package for a one-time upload requires >>> that. Becoming a maintainer requires more, and is not a one-time action.

    And so my hopes of ever getting the new source in place drop away. 😅💦💦

    Well, this is a 100% volunteer project, but the good thing is that everyone can
    volunteer and contribute. Debian is a do-ocracy [1], so if you really want that
    new version so hard that you need to use tear emojis, your best bet is to get involved yourself. [2]

    [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/ch02.en.html#social
    [2] or pay somone, eg a freelancer, to do the work for you.

    As a newbie maintainer of another Debian package, while Chris is right that the initial upfront time investment was daunting, the review process of getting my package into Debian surfaced many packaging issues (not with my Debian changes, but with the
    underlying upstream). The buildd testing further surfaced portability issues and build system issues I was previously unaware of. While the packaging can seem like a lot of work, it has a significant pay off both for upstream and downstream IME.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Geert Stappers@21:1/5 to notebook on Tue Oct 5 22:40:03 2021
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 08:27:37PM +0900, notebook wrote:

    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.

    Did you get any response?

    Better question:
    How were those contact attempts done?

    I contacted them via their mails stated on debian.
    One mail was already dead (or I never received a reply).

    I hope we see why it is a good thing to have Debian BTS in the loop.


    And one stated he's too busy too work on it.

    Great opportunity to join forces.




    Groeten
    Geert Stappers
    DD
    Willing to sponsor gjiten


    P.S.

    Hi Felix

    I'm back from vacantion and slowly catching up.
    --
    Silence is hard to parse

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  • From notebook@21:1/5 to Geert Stappers on Wed Oct 6 02:00:01 2021
    [Geert Stappers]
    Willing to sponsor gjiten

    That would be awesomely awesome!
    My hopes are, that if I get help the first one or two times, I'll get an easier grasp on things and will be able to do it myself in near future.


    [Matthew Fernandez]
    the review process [...] surfaced many packaging issues [, ...] portability issues and build system issues

    So it's rather an opportunity that a burden. Indeed, that's probably the right way to see it. Thank you.


    -- Chris



    On 2021/10/06 5:38, Geert Stappers wrote:
    On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 08:27:37PM +0900, notebook wrote:

    As the package is already in Debian, you need to contact its current >>>>>> maintainer(s) (though I see you already filed #982343).

    I contacted the current maintainers. They are too busy to do any work in this regard.

    Did you get any response?

    Better question:
    How were those contact attempts done?

    I contacted them via their mails stated on debian.
    One mail was already dead (or I never received a reply).

    I hope we see why it is a good thing to have Debian BTS in the loop.


    And one stated he's too busy too work on it.

    Great opportunity to join forces.




    Groeten
    Geert Stappers
    DD
    Willing to sponsor gjiten


    P.S.

    Hi Felix

    I'm back from vacantion and slowly catching up.


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