Hello everyone,

In introduction to this mail, let me introduce FreeMedForms (if you already know it, read next paragraph). FreeMedForms is an open source EHR with a complet drug-drug drug-patient interactions (DDPI) checker. It is a full
set of two apps : freemedforms-ehr and freediams. FreeDiams is the
prescriber assistant plugin of FreeMedForms build into a full complete application. FreeMedForms is maintained by a french non profit organization (https://freemedforms.com/fr/asso/start) (association loi 1901). Free
Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code licence
is still the same. But, the code documentation is only reserved to approved developers by this NPO. We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to
sign a CLA (which is still a draft piece of text actually).

The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private data to
manage DDPI and for some medical forms (some are free, some are not). The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO. FreeMedForms
can fully work with free data but without the DDPI and some printing
features.

As FreeMedForms is open source and is forked. Forks trie to access our
private data using the open sourced server protocol (query to a php
script). According to the server's log, we believe that at least two forks
are still trying to download our old private datapacks without any form of authorization...
We tried SSH access and crypt the data with a private key to share with our paying partners, but we do not have (time and) competences to do/manage
this...

We know that FreeMedForms is used in eastern europe, spain, france, russia, argentina, some part of africa and may be other countries (china, uruguay, brasil). Two clinics use it in their emergencies department. And I'm, as
main manager of the project and as president of the NPO, convinced that the FreeMedForms project has its place in the Debian and also that the NPO
should focus on keeping FreeMedForms as a strong competitor in the field of open source EHR.

My time to discuss legal and technical issues, code or support about the project... is really weak as I'm a much more than full time MD, father,
writer, NPO manager, trainer of doctors, nurses and psychologists, etc...

Do you have any idea to progress with these legal/technical issues ?

Thanks


<http://maeker.fr> *Dr Maeker Éric*

*Gériatre, psychogériatre*
eric.maeker@gmail.com
Twitter @DrMaeker <https://www.twitter.com/drmaeker>
RPPS 10002307964

maeker.fr Site personnel
empathies.fr Association Emp@thies
freemedforms.com Logiciel médical

La gériatrie, c'est la médecine pour les pères et les mères Noël

<div dir="ltr">Hello everyone,<div><br></div><div>In introduction to this mail, let me introduce FreeMedForms (if you already know it, read next paragraph). FreeMedForms is an open source EHR with a complet drug-drug drug-patient interactions (DDPI)
checker. It is a full set of two apps : freemedforms-ehr and freediams. FreeDiams is the prescriber assistant plugin of FreeMedForms build into a full complete application. FreeMedForms is maintained by a french non profit organization (<a href="https://
freemedforms.com/fr/asso/start" target="_blank">https://freemedforms.com/fr/asso/start</a>) (association loi 1901). Free Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code licence is still the same. But, the code documentation is only
reserved to approved developers by this NPO. We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to sign a CLA (which is still a draft piece of text actually).</div><div><div><div><br></div><div>The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private
data to manage DDPI and for some medical forms (some are free, some are not). The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO. FreeMedForms can fully work with free data but without the DDPI and some printing features.</div><div><br></

<div>As FreeMedForms is open source and is forked. Forks trie to access our private data using the open sourced server protocol (query to a php script). According to the server&#39;s log, we believe that at least two forks are still trying to

download our old private datapacks without any form of authorization... </div><div>We tried SSH access and crypt the data with a private key to share with our paying partners, but we do not have (time and) competences to do/manage this...<br></div><div><

</div><div>We know that FreeMedForms is used in eastern europe, spain, france, russia, argentina, some part of africa and may be other countries (china, uruguay, brasil). Two clinics use it in their emergencies department. And I&#39;m, as main manager

of the project and as president of the NPO, convinced that the FreeMedForms project has its place in the Debian and also that the NPO should focus on keeping FreeMedForms as a strong competitor in the field of open source EHR.</div><div><br></div><div>My
time to discuss legal and technical issues, code or support about the project... is really weak as I&#39;m a much more than full time MD, father, writer, NPO manager, trainer of doctors, nurses and psychologists, etc...</div><div></div></div></div><div><

</div><div>Do you have any idea to progress with these legal/technical issues ?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="

ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-
nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><tbody><tr><td width="121" style="padding:0px 10px 0px 0px;vertical-align:top"><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);display:inline-block" target="_blank"><img src="https://
s1g.s3.amazonaws.com/32b89974f88d9dd6b506293321e637d7.png" style="border:none;vertical-align:baseline"></a></td><td width="12" style="padding:0px;border-left:2px solid rgb(153,153,153)"></td><td style="padding:0px;vertical-align:top;font-size:12px;font-
family:helvetica,arial"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><b><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-size:15px">Dr Maeker Éric</span></b><br><span><b>Gériatre, psychogériatre<br></b><br></span></span><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-stretch:
normal;line-height:normal"><a href="mailto:eric.maeker@gmail.com" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">eric.maeker@gmail.com</a><br></span><font color="#666666">Twitter  </font><a href="https://www.twitter.com/
drmaeker" target="_blank"><font color="#3d85c6">@DrMaeker</font></a><br><font color="#666666">RPPS 10002307964</font><br><br><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">maeker.fr</a><font color="#
666666">  Site personnel</font><br><a href="http://empathies.fr/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">empathies.fr</a><font color="#666666">  Association Emp@thies</font><br><a href="http://freemedforms.com/"
style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">freemedforms.com</a><font color="#666666">  Logiciel médical</font><br><table cellpadding="0" border="0" style="color:rgb(102,102,102);border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:
0px;background-color:transparent"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:
proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px;margin-top:10px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px;font-size:10px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><p style="text-align:center;margin:0px 0px 22px"><font color="#999999">La gériatrie, c&#39;est la médecine pour les pè
res et les mères Noël</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:00 PM Eric Maeker wrote:

Free Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code licence is still the same.

I don't like this, people seeking source code should not have to get
approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available
directly from the site without approval.

But, the code documentation is only reserved to approved developers by this NPO.

I definitely don't like this, it would be much better to publish the
code documentation to everyone under a free license.

We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to sign a CLA (which is still a draft piece of text actually).

I don't like this either, it would be much better for devs to release
their contributions under the same license that you do, then you can incorporate their changes, preserving their copyright over their
changes and passing on their license to you to downstream users. So
the whole of the software is then owned by a variety of copyright
holders, each of whom also have to abide by the license given to them
by the other contributors. The license on the software then cannot be
changed without contributor consensus, so it becomes a much more solid
project from a user perspective. Single-owner projects are much more
easy to turn proprietary.

http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html

The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private data

Could you explain why this data needs to be private? It would be much
better to release it publicly under a free license.

The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO.

Is this the only form of income that the NPO has available to it? It
sounds like the NPO is seeking what is called an "Open Core" business
model, where the core part of the project is public and freely
licensed but addons are proprietary. The incentives here can be quite
perverse, often companies seek to prevent outside contributions to the
core or even remove features from the core so that more people start
paying them for the proprietary addons. So I encourage you to consider alternative income streams.

I think the best option for the would be to consult with as many of
the practices, clinics, hospitals and emergency departments that you
know about that use the software and find out the best way for the NPO
to have enough resources to continue development consistent with the
interests of the community of folks who use the software. Examples of
potential income models could include: large grants/sponsorships that
cover development and other costs, a membership subscriber base that
pays for all maintenance and development costs, or more of a
crowd-funding model where folks interested in specific features pay
for their development, or a community of consultants that do all work
on the project as requested by their customers or possibly a
combination of these and other options.

Forks trie to access our private data using the open sourced server protocol (query to a php script).

I would suggest to just make the data public and under a free license,
but if you don't want to do that, the way to go would be to setup an
e-commerce site where people have to pay before they can download the
private data and then have in the software a way to load the locally
saved data that has been downloaded from the site. I believe there are
some freely licensed e-commerce tools in Debian and the consultants
that offer support for Debian in your area might be able to help with
finding, installing and configuring them.

https://www.debian.org/consultants/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:02 AM Paul Wise wrote:

I don't like this, people seeking source code should not have to get
approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available
directly from the site without approval.

I missed seeing that the git repository containing the source is
private. I don't like that, development versions and the development
process should be public and allow external people to participate.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi,

For now, our NPO is too poor to engage in consulting or to pay external developments and we awfully miss time to manage all aspects of a widely collaborative project.
Sounds like we are travelling to "contrib" or "non-free" package ? Or may
be "non-debian" ?

Belle journée
Cordialement


<http://maeker.fr> *Dr Maeker Éric*

*Gériatre, psychogériatre*
eric.maeker@gmail.com
Twitter @DrMaeker <https://www.twitter.com/drmaeker>
RPPS 10002307964

maeker.fr Site personnel
empathies.fr Association Emp@thies
freemedforms.com Logiciel médical

La gériatrie, c'est la médecine pour les pères et les mères Noël


Le ven. 10 janv. 2020 à 03:03, Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> a écrit :

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:00 PM Eric Maeker wrote:

Free Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code

licence is still the same.

I don't like this, people seeking source code should not have to get
approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available
directly from the site without approval.

But, the code documentation is only reserved to approved developers by

this NPO.

I definitely don't like this, it would be much better to publish the
code documentation to everyone under a free license.

We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to sign a CLA (which is

still a draft piece of text actually).

I don't like this either, it would be much better for devs to release
their contributions under the same license that you do, then you can incorporate their changes, preserving their copyright over their
changes and passing on their license to you to downstream users. So
the whole of the software is then owned by a variety of copyright
holders, each of whom also have to abide by the license given to them
by the other contributors. The license on the software then cannot be
changed without contributor consensus, so it becomes a much more solid project from a user perspective. Single-owner projects are much more
easy to turn proprietary.

http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html

The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private data

Could you explain why this data needs to be private? It would be much
better to release it publicly under a free license.

The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO.

Is this the only form of income that the NPO has available to it? It
sounds like the NPO is seeking what is called an "Open Core" business
model, where the core part of the project is public and freely
licensed but addons are proprietary. The incentives here can be quite perverse, often companies seek to prevent outside contributions to the
core or even remove features from the core so that more people start
paying them for the proprietary addons. So I encourage you to consider alternative income streams.

I think the best option for the would be to consult with as many of
the practices, clinics, hospitals and emergency departments that you
know about that use the software and find out the best way for the NPO
to have enough resources to continue development consistent with the interests of the community of folks who use the software. Examples of potential income models could include: large grants/sponsorships that
cover development and other costs, a membership subscriber base that
pays for all maintenance and development costs, or more of a
crowd-funding model where folks interested in specific features pay
for their development, or a community of consultants that do all work
on the project as requested by their customers or possibly a
combination of these and other options.

Forks trie to access our private data using the open sourced server

protocol (query to a php script).

I would suggest to just make the data public and under a free license,
but if you don't want to do that, the way to go would be to setup an e-commerce site where people have to pay before they can download the
private data and then have in the software a way to load the locally
saved data that has been downloaded from the site. I believe there are
some freely licensed e-commerce tools in Debian and the consultants
that offer support for Debian in your area might be able to help with finding, installing and configuring them.

https://www.debian.org/consultants/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

<div dir="ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div></div><div>For now, our NPO is too poor to engage in consulting or to pay external developments and we awfully miss time to manage all aspects of a widely collaborative project.<br></div><div>Sounds like we are
travelling to &quot;contrib&quot; or &quot;non-free&quot; package ? Or may be &quot;non-debian&quot; ?<br></div><div> <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><
div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Belle journée</div><div>Cordialement</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;
border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><tbody><tr><td width="121" style="padding:0px 10px 0px 0px;vertical-align:top"><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);
display:inline-block" target="_blank"><img src="https://s1g.s3.amazonaws.com/32b89974f88d9dd6b506293321e637d7.png" style="border:none;vertical-align:baseline"></a></td><td width="12" style="padding:0px;border-left:2px solid rgb(153,153,153)"></td><td
style="padding:0px;vertical-align:top;font-size:12px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><b><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-size:15px">Dr Maeker Éric</span></b><br><span><b>Gériatre, psychogériatre<br></b><br></span>
</span><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><a href="mailto:eric.maeker@gmail.com" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">eric.maeker@gmail.com</a><br></span><font color="#666666">
Twitter  </font><a href="https://www.twitter.com/drmaeker" target="_blank"><font color="#3d85c6">@DrMaeker</font></a><br><font color="#666666">RPPS 10002307964</font><br><br><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:
transparent" target="_blank">maeker.fr</a><font color="#666666">  Site personnel</font><br><a href="http://empathies.fr/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">empathies.fr</a><font color="#666666">  Association Emp@
thies</font><br><a href="http://freemedforms.com/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">freemedforms.com</a><font color="#666666">  Logiciel médical</font><br><table cellpadding="0" border="0" style="color:rgb(102,
102,102);border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;background-color:transparent"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;
border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px;margin-top:10px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px;font-size:10px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><p style="text-align:center;margin:0px 0px 22px"><font color="#999999"

La gériatrie, c&#39;est la médecine pour les pères et les mères Noël</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"
Le ven. 10 janv. 2020 à 03:03, Paul Wise &lt;<a href="mailto:pabs@debian.org">pabs@debian.org</a>&gt; a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu,

Jan 9, 2020 at 8:00 PM Eric Maeker wrote:<br>

&gt; Free Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code licence is still the same.<br>

I don&#39;t like this, people seeking source code should not have to get<br> approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available<br> directly from the site without approval.<br>

&gt; But, the code documentation is only reserved to approved developers by this NPO.<br>

I definitely don&#39;t like this, it would be much better to publish the<br> code documentation to everyone under a free license.<br>

&gt; We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to sign a CLA (which is still a draft piece of text actually).<br>

I don&#39;t like this either, it would be much better for devs to release<br> their contributions under the same license that you do, then you can<br> incorporate their changes, preserving their copyright over their<br>
changes and passing on their license to you to downstream users. So<br>
the whole of the software is then owned by a variety of copyright<br>
holders, each of whom also have to abide by the license given to them<br>
by the other contributors. The license on the software then cannot be<br> changed without contributor consensus, so it becomes a much more solid<br> project from a user perspective. Single-owner projects are much more<br>
easy to turn proprietary.<br>

<a href="http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html</a><br>

&gt; The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private data<br>

Could you explain why this data needs to be private? It would be much<br> better to release it publicly under a free license.<br>

&gt; The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO.<br>

Is this the only form of income that the NPO has available to it? It<br>
sounds like the NPO is seeking what is called an &quot;Open Core&quot; business<br>
model, where the core part of the project is public and freely<br>
licensed but addons are proprietary. The incentives here can be quite<br> perverse, often companies seek to prevent outside contributions to the<br>
core or even remove features from the core so that more people start<br>
paying them for the proprietary addons. So I encourage you to consider<br> alternative income streams.<br>

I think the best option for the would be to consult with as many of<br>
the practices, clinics, hospitals and emergency departments that you<br>
know about that use the software and find out the best way for the NPO<br>
to have enough resources to continue development consistent with the<br> interests of the community of folks who use the software. Examples of<br> potential income models could include: large grants/sponsorships that<br>
cover development and other costs, a membership subscriber base that<br>
pays for all maintenance and development costs, or more of a<br>
crowd-funding model where folks interested in specific features pay<br>
for their development, or a community of consultants that do all work<br>
on the project as requested by their customers or possibly a<br>
combination of these and other options.<br>

&gt; Forks trie to access our private data using the open sourced server protocol (query to a php script).<br>

I would suggest to just make the data public and under a free license,<br>
but if you don&#39;t want to do that, the way to go would be to setup an<br> e-commerce site where people have to pay before they can download the<br> private data and then have in the software a way to load the locally<br>
saved data that has been downloaded from the site. I believe there are<br>
some freely licensed e-commerce tools in Debian and the consultants<br>
that offer support for Debian in your area might be able to help with<br> finding, installing and configuring them.<br>

<a href="https://www.debian.org/consultants/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.debian.org/consultants/</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/</a><br>

-- <br>
bye,<br>
pabs<br>

<a href="https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Can you please clarify -- you said the license was the same, but you didn't
say what that license actually was. What license is your code available
under?

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 07:18 Eric Maeker <eric.maeker@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

For now, our NPO is too poor to engage in consulting or to pay external developments and we awfully miss time to manage all aspects of a widely collaborative project.
Sounds like we are travelling to "contrib" or "non-free" package ? Or may
be "non-debian" ?

Belle journée
Cordialement

<http://maeker.fr> *Dr Maeker Éric*

*Gériatre, psychogériatre*
eric.maeker@gmail.com
Twitter @DrMaeker <https://www.twitter.com/drmaeker>
RPPS 10002307964

maeker.fr Site personnel
empathies.fr Association Emp@thies
freemedforms.com Logiciel médical

La gériatrie, c'est la médecine pour les pères et les mères Noël

Le ven. 10 janv. 2020 à 03:03, Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> a écrit :

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:00 PM Eric Maeker wrote:

Free Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code

licence is still the same.

I don't like this, people seeking source code should not have to get
approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available
directly from the site without approval.

But, the code documentation is only reserved to approved developers by

this NPO.

I definitely don't like this, it would be much better to publish the
code documentation to everyone under a free license.

We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to sign a CLA (which is

still a draft piece of text actually).

I don't like this either, it would be much better for devs to release
their contributions under the same license that you do, then you can
incorporate their changes, preserving their copyright over their
changes and passing on their license to you to downstream users. So
the whole of the software is then owned by a variety of copyright
holders, each of whom also have to abide by the license given to them
by the other contributors. The license on the software then cannot be
changed without contributor consensus, so it becomes a much more solid
project from a user perspective. Single-owner projects are much more
easy to turn proprietary.

http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html

The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private data

Could you explain why this data needs to be private? It would be much
better to release it publicly under a free license.

The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO.

Is this the only form of income that the NPO has available to it? It
sounds like the NPO is seeking what is called an "Open Core" business
model, where the core part of the project is public and freely
licensed but addons are proprietary. The incentives here can be quite
perverse, often companies seek to prevent outside contributions to the
core or even remove features from the core so that more people start
paying them for the proprietary addons. So I encourage you to consider
alternative income streams.

I think the best option for the would be to consult with as many of
the practices, clinics, hospitals and emergency departments that you
know about that use the software and find out the best way for the NPO
to have enough resources to continue development consistent with the
interests of the community of folks who use the software. Examples of
potential income models could include: large grants/sponsorships that
cover development and other costs, a membership subscriber base that
pays for all maintenance and development costs, or more of a
crowd-funding model where folks interested in specific features pay
for their development, or a community of consultants that do all work
on the project as requested by their customers or possibly a
combination of these and other options.

Forks trie to access our private data using the open sourced server

protocol (query to a php script).

I would suggest to just make the data public and under a free license,
but if you don't want to do that, the way to go would be to setup an
e-commerce site where people have to pay before they can download the
private data and then have in the software a way to load the locally
saved data that has been downloaded from the site. I believe there are
some freely licensed e-commerce tools in Debian and the consultants
that offer support for Debian in your area might be able to help with
finding, installing and configuring them.

https://www.debian.org/consultants/
https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

<div dir="auto">Can you please clarify -- you said the license was the same, but you didn&#39;t say what that license actually was. What license is your code available under?</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan
10, 2020, 07:18 Eric Maeker &lt;<a href="mailto:eric.maeker@gmail.com">eric.maeker@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><

</div><div>For now, our NPO is too poor to engage in consulting or to pay external developments and we awfully miss time to manage all aspects of a widely collaborative project.<br></div><div>Sounds like we are travelling to &quot;contrib&quot; or &

quot;non-free&quot; package ? Or may be &quot;non-debian&quot; ?<br></div><div> <br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">
<div>Belle journée</div><div>Cordialement</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-nova,
sans-serif;font-size:16px"><tbody><tr><td width="121" style="padding:0px 10px 0px 0px;vertical-align:top"><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);display:inline-block" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><img src=
"https://s1g.s3.amazonaws.com/32b89974f88d9dd6b506293321e637d7.png" style="border:none;vertical-align:baseline"></a></td><td width="12" style="padding:0px;border-left:2px solid rgb(153,153,153)"></td><td style="padding:0px;vertical-align:top;font-size:
12px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><b><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-size:15px">Dr Maeker Éric</span></b><br><span><b>Gériatre, psychogériatre<br></b><br></span></span><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-
stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><a href="mailto:eric.maeker@gmail.com" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">eric.maeker@gmail.com</a><br></span><font color="#666666">Twitter  </font><a href="
https://www.twitter.com/drmaeker" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><font color="#3d85c6">@DrMaeker</font></a><br><font color="#666666">RPPS 10002307964</font><br><br><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">maeker.fr</a><font color="#666666">  Site personnel</font><br><a href="http://empathies.fr/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">empathies.fr</a><font color="#
666666">  Association Emp@thies</font><br><a href="http://freemedforms.com/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">freemedforms.com</a><font color="#666666">  Logiciel médical</font><br><table
cellpadding="0" border="0" style="color:rgb(102,102,102);border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;background-color:transparent"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"
style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px;margin-top:10px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px;font-size:10px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><p style="text-align:
center;margin:0px 0px 22px"><font color="#999999">La gériatrie, c&#39;est la médecine pour les pères et les mères Noël</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le ven. 10 janv. 2020 à 03:03, Paul Wise &lt;<a href="mailto:pabs@debian.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">pabs@debian.org</a>&gt; a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 8:00 PM Eric Maeker wrote:<br>

&gt; Free Source code is provided to any demander approved by the NPO, code licence is still the same.<br>

I don&#39;t like this, people seeking source code should not have to get<br> approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available<br> directly from the site without approval.<br>

&gt; But, the code documentation is only reserved to approved developers by this NPO.<br>

I definitely don&#39;t like this, it would be much better to publish the<br> code documentation to everyone under a free license.<br>

&gt; We do encourage new dev to apply to our NPO and to sign a CLA (which is still a draft piece of text actually).<br>

I don&#39;t like this either, it would be much better for devs to release<br> their contributions under the same license that you do, then you can<br> incorporate their changes, preserving their copyright over their<br>
changes and passing on their license to you to downstream users. So<br>
the whole of the software is then owned by a variety of copyright<br>
holders, each of whom also have to abide by the license given to them<br>
by the other contributors. The license on the software then cannot be<br> changed without contributor consensus, so it becomes a much more solid<br> project from a user perspective. Single-owner projects are much more<br>
easy to turn proprietary.<br>

<a href="http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2014/06/09/do-not-need-cla.html</a><br>

&gt; The problem is that FreeMedForms EHR needs access to private data<br>

Could you explain why this data needs to be private? It would be much<br> better to release it publicly under a free license.<br>

&gt; The private data are only available to paying partners to the NPO.<br>

Is this the only form of income that the NPO has available to it? It<br>
sounds like the NPO is seeking what is called an &quot;Open Core&quot; business<br>
model, where the core part of the project is public and freely<br>
licensed but addons are proprietary. The incentives here can be quite<br> perverse, often companies seek to prevent outside contributions to the<br>
core or even remove features from the core so that more people start<br>
paying them for the proprietary addons. So I encourage you to consider<br> alternative income streams.<br>

I think the best option for the would be to consult with as many of<br>
the practices, clinics, hospitals and emergency departments that you<br>
know about that use the software and find out the best way for the NPO<br>
to have enough resources to continue development consistent with the<br> interests of the community of folks who use the software. Examples of<br> potential income models could include: large grants/sponsorships that<br>
cover development and other costs, a membership subscriber base that<br>
pays for all maintenance and development costs, or more of a<br>
crowd-funding model where folks interested in specific features pay<br>
for their development, or a community of consultants that do all work<br>
on the project as requested by their customers or possibly a<br>
combination of these and other options.<br>

&gt; Forks trie to access our private data using the open sourced server protocol (query to a php script).<br>

I would suggest to just make the data public and under a free license,<br>
but if you don&#39;t want to do that, the way to go would be to setup an<br> e-commerce site where people have to pay before they can download the<br> private data and then have in the software a way to load the locally<br>
saved data that has been downloaded from the site. I believe there are<br>
some freely licensed e-commerce tools in Debian and the consultants<br>
that offer support for Debian in your area might be able to help with<br> finding, installing and configuring them.<br>

<a href="https://www.debian.org/consultants/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.debian.org/consultants/</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.debian.org/debian-consultants/</a><br>

-- <br>
bye,<br>
pabs<br>

<a href="https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 04:18:26 +0000 Paul Wise wrote:

On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 2:02 AM Paul Wise wrote:

I don't like this, people seeking source code should not have to get approval first. That said, I note that the source code is available directly from the site without approval.

I missed seeing that the git repository containing the source is
private. I don't like that, development versions and the development
process should be public and allow external people to participate.

For what it's worth, I personally pretty much agree with all the
comments made by Paul in the previous two messages...

Thanks to Paul for expressing all the concerns and dislikes so clearly
and thoroughly.


--
http://www.inventati.org/frx/
There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory! ..................................................... Francesco Poli .
GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE

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On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 13:01 +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:

Sounds like we are travelling to "contrib" or "non-free" package ? Or
may be "non-debian" ?

The section of Debian a package is added to depends solely on the DFSG compliance of the software (freely licensed and released source code).
Whether software is classed as non-Debian depends on the quality of the software and on Debian having permission to redistribute the software.

https://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines

It sounds like your software is probably DFSG compliant but that you
have some organisational issues that are not best practice for a proper
Free Software project. While I would encourage you to fix those
issues, they are by no means a requirement for your software to enter
Debian.

The bigger problem for entering Debian is what Andreas mentions, that
the software uses Qt4 instead of Qt5. Once you have released a new
version that uses Qt5 it could potentially enter Debian.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 17:34 +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:

We know that at least two forks exists (this is what our private data server's log tells us). We do not receive any patch, invitation to
git repos, or any kind of official informations or queries.

Having multiple forks and having folks not bother to send feedback is
normal in Free Software, especially for software that uses github.
There was a blog post about this recently but I'm unable to find it. I
would not worry about there being forks available, instead focus on the feedback that you do get and try to build a community around the code.

we decide that our git repository will not be freely accessible.

I encourage you to consider changing back to an open repository; as
Andreas has pointed out, this is already affecting other potential
contributors and affecting potential redistribution of your software.

Approval does only concern ... the ability to join the project as
member (coder, tester, communication manager...).

This is normally how things work, you build up trust through your
contributions to a project and then they invite you to join.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi

I'm really sorry, but I can not answer to everyone and all your questions.
I feel a bit flooded.

What I can say is that we are working (in real life, I alone, because I'm
the only one to manage Debian in the project, we have macist only...) to
finish the code of 1.1.0 and release it like we always do : source packaged
and freely available, bins ok, tests ok. No buggy soft, no untested
features. Now that doctors use our soft and put all patient data in it, we
can not deliver a buggy software and we must test update from older version before any release. This means time...

About the website and the DFSG compliance, please consider that the website translations are out of sync. FreeMedForms integrates now one extra content
: code128.ttf, that is not clearly licenced ( https://grandzebu.net/informatique/codbar/code128.ttf / https://www.dafont.com/fr/code-128.font). This is required for all user who wants to print bar codes (see https://freemedforms.com/fr/news/versions/110#codes_barres)... This is why
the package is mentioned "not 100% DSFG compatible". But may be we made an error (that anyone can correct) ?

All other extra-non-free content are only downloadable from our server
datapack (directly from the application) and users are well informed of all licence and missing features (DDI management mainly). This choice goes
beyond the question of licenses since it also implies from managers of the project medical and scientific responsibilities. This is also why we can
not accept that forks tries to download and install our private data.

We noticed that Popcon says:
*freemedforms-freedata* 62
While
*freemedforms-emr* 30
We understand that people are more interested by our data than by our
complete solution. This is not exactly what we thought at the start of the project. Whatever, the project goes on!

I hope I made our choices clearer... You can consider that our engagement
in free software and specially in debian is still the same since 2008.

Belle journée
Cordialement


<http://maeker.fr> *Dr Maeker Éric*

*Gériatre, psychogériatre*
eric.maeker@gmail.com
Twitter @DrMaeker <https://www.twitter.com/drmaeker>
RPPS 10002307964

maeker.fr Site personnel
empathies.fr Association Emp@thies
freemedforms.com Logiciel médical

La gériatrie, c'est la médecine pour les pères et les mères Noël


Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 02:15, Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> a écrit :

On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 17:34 +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:

We know that at least two forks exists (this is what our private data server's log tells us). We do not receive any patch, invitation to
git repos, or any kind of official informations or queries.

Having multiple forks and having folks not bother to send feedback is
normal in Free Software, especially for software that uses github.
There was a blog post about this recently but I'm unable to find it. I
would not worry about there being forks available, instead focus on the feedback that you do get and try to build a community around the code.

we decide that our git repository will not be freely accessible.

I encourage you to consider changing back to an open repository; as
Andreas has pointed out, this is already affecting other potential contributors and affecting potential redistribution of your software.

Approval does only concern ... the ability to join the project as
member (coder, tester, communication manager...).

This is normally how things work, you build up trust through your contributions to a project and then they invite you to join.

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

<div dir="ltr">Hi<div><br></div><div>I&#39;m really sorry, but I can not answer to everyone and all your questions. I feel a bit flooded.</div><div><br></div><div>What I can say is that we are working (in real life, I alone, because I&#39;m the only one
to manage Debian in the project, we have macist only...) to finish the code of 1.1.0 and release it like we always do : source packaged and freely available, bins ok, tests ok. No buggy soft, no untested features. Now that doctors use our soft and put
all patient data in it, we can not deliver a buggy software and we must test update from older version before any release. This means time...</div><div><br></div><div>About the website and the DFSG compliance, please consider that the website
translations are out of sync. FreeMedForms integrates now one extra content : code128.ttf, that is not clearly licenced (<a href="https://grandzebu.net/informatique/codbar/code128.ttf">https://grandzebu.net/informatique/codbar/code128.ttf</a> /  <a href=
"https://www.dafont.com/fr/code-128.font">https://www.dafont.com/fr/code-128.font</a>). This is required for all user who wants to print bar codes (see <a href="https://freemedforms.com/fr/news/versions/110#codes_barres).">https://freemedforms.com/fr/
news/versions/110#codes_barres).</a>.. This is why the package is mentioned &quot;not 100% DSFG compatible&quot;. But may be we made an error (that anyone can correct) ?</div><div><br></div><div>All other extra-non-free content are only downloadable from
our server datapack (directly from the application) and users are well informed of all licence and missing features (DDI management mainly). This choice goes beyond the question of licenses since it also implies from managers of the project medical and
scientific responsibilities. This is also why we can not accept that forks tries to download and install our private data.<br></div><div><br></div><div>We noticed that Popcon says:</div><table class="gmail-small" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"
summary="" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px"><tbody style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;
font-style:inherit;font-size:13px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><tr align="center" bgcolor="#dcdcdc" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><
td style="padding:0.5em 1.5em 0.5em 0px;border-width:1px;border-top-style:dotted;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:grey;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-
color:initial;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:left;line-height:1.2em"><b>freemedforms-freedata</b></td><td style="padding:0.5em 1.5em 0.5em 0px;border-width:1px;border-top-style:dotted;border-right-
style:initial;border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:grey;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-
align:left;line-height:1.2em">62</td></tr></tbody></table><div>While</div><div><table class="gmail-small" border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" summary="" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;
font-family:sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;border-spacing:0px"><tbody style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-size:13px;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><tr align="center" bgcolor="#
dcdcdc" style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-weight:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline"><td style="padding:0.5em 1.5em 0.5em 0px;border-width:1px;border-top-style:dotted;border-right-style:initial;
border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:grey;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:left;line-
height:1.2em"><b>freemedforms-emr</b></td><td style="padding:0.5em 1.5em 0.5em 0px;border-width:1px;border-top-style:dotted;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:initial;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:grey;border-right-color:initial;
border-bottom-color:initial;border-left-color:initial;outline:0px;font-style:inherit;font-family:inherit;vertical-align:baseline;text-align:left;line-height:1.2em">30</td></tr></tbody></table></div><div>We understand that people are more interested by
our data than by our complete solution. This is not exactly what we thought at the start of the project. Whatever, the project goes on!</div><div><br></div><div>I hope I made our choices clearer... You can consider that our engagement in free software
and specially in debian is still the same since 2008.<br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div
dir="ltr"><div>Belle journée</div><div>Cordialement</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-family:
proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><tbody><tr><td width="121" style="padding:0px 10px 0px 0px;vertical-align:top"><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,122,183);display:inline-block" target="_blank"><img src="
https://s1g.s3.amazonaws.com/32b89974f88d9dd6b506293321e637d7.png" style="border:none;vertical-align:baseline"></a></td><td width="12" style="padding:0px;border-left:2px solid rgb(153,153,153)"></td><td style="padding:0px;vertical-align:top;font-size:
12px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><b><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68);font-size:15px">Dr Maeker Éric</span></b><br><span><b>Gériatre, psychogériatre<br></b><br></span></span><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-
stretch:normal;line-height:normal"><a href="mailto:eric.maeker@gmail.com" style="background-color:transparent;color:rgb(51,136,204)" target="_blank">eric.maeker@gmail.com</a><br></span><font color="#666666">Twitter  </font><a href="https://www.twitter.
com/drmaeker" target="_blank"><font color="#3d85c6">@DrMaeker</font></a><br><font color="#666666">RPPS 10002307964</font><br><br><a href="http://maeker.fr" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">maeker.fr</a><font
color="#666666">  Site personnel</font><br><a href="http://empathies.fr/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">empathies.fr</a><font color="#666666">  Association Emp@thies</font><br><a href="http://freemedforms.
com/" style="color:rgb(51,136,204);background-color:transparent" target="_blank">freemedforms.com</a><font color="#666666">  Logiciel médical</font><br><table cellpadding="0" border="0" style="color:rgb(102,102,102);border-collapse:collapse;border-
spacing:0px;background-color:transparent"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><table width="351" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="text-align:left;border-collapse:collapse;border-spacing:0px;color:rgb(20,49,65);font-
family:proxima-nova,sans-serif;font-size:16px;margin-top:10px"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0px;font-size:10px;font-family:helvetica,arial"><p style="text-align:center;margin:0px 0px 22px"><font color="#999999">La gériatrie, c&#39;est la médecine pour
les pères et les mères Noël</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 02:15, Paul
Wise &lt;<a href="mailto:pabs@debian.org">pabs@debian.org</a>&gt; a écrit :<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Fri, 2020-01-10 at 17:34 +0100, Eric Maeker
wrote:<br>

&gt; We know that at least two forks exists (this is what our private data<br> &gt; server&#39;s log tells us). We do not receive any patch, invitation to<br> &gt; git repos, or any kind of official informations or queries.<br>

Having multiple forks and having folks not bother to send feedback is<br> normal in Free Software, especially for software that uses github.<br>
There was a blog post about this recently but I&#39;m unable to find it. I<br> would not worry about there being forks available, instead focus on the<br> feedback that you do get and try to build a community around the code. <br>

&gt; we decide that our git repository will not be freely accessible. <br>

I encourage you to consider changing back to an open repository; as<br>
Andreas has pointed out, this is already affecting other potential<br> contributors and affecting potential redistribution of your software.<br>

&gt; Approval does only concern ... the ability to join the project as<br>
&gt; member (coder, tester, communication manager...).<br>

This is normally how things work, you build up trust through your<br> contributions to a project and then they invite you to join.<br>

-- <br>
bye,<br>
pabs<br>

<a href="https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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On Sat, 2020-01-11 at 17:08 +0100, Eric Maeker wrote:

I'm really sorry, but I can not answer to everyone and all your
questions. I feel a bit flooded.

Sorry about that, I hope one final email is not too much.

About the website and the DFSG compliance, please consider that the
website translations are out of sync. FreeMedForms integrates now one
extra content : code128.ttf, that is not clearly licenced ( https://grandzebu.net/informatique/codbar/code128.ttf / https://www.dafont.com/fr/code-128.font). This is required for all
user who wants to print bar codes (see https://freemedforms.com/fr/news/versions/110#codes_barres)... This
is why the package is mentioned "not 100% DSFG compatible". But may
be we made an error (that anyone can correct) ?

According to the font metadata and the font website, the Code 128 font
is licensed under the GPL so is probably free. Since it is a separate
project to yours though, it should be packaged separately in Debian and
your package should then depend on it.

https://grandzebu.net/informatique/codbar-en/code128.htm

--
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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