• Fwd: RNNoise's model and DFSG

    From Nicholas Guriev@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 17 12:20:01 2021
    Hello!

    I still have suspicions about RNNoise and its probable non-free model.
    I'm curious in context of my package libtgowt where I got to cut the
    library out. What is the current consensus on this library in Debian
    community? I already asked on debian-ai@ but nobody answered ever since.


    -------- Forwarded Message --------
    From: Nicholas Guriev <nicholas@guriev.su>
    To: Debian Deep Learning Team <debian-ai@lists.debian.org>
    Subject: RNNoise's model and DFSG
    Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 20:19:37 +0300

    Hi folks!

    I'm reading ML-Policy draft[1] and I can't get whether it's allowed to
    include into Debian main archive the unchanged model from RNNoise[2]
    library. Given that their model[3] is not completely open.

    [1]: https://salsa.debian.org/deeplearning-team/ml-policy/-/blob/master/ML-Policy.rst
    [2]: https://jmvalin.ca/demo/rnnoise/
    [3]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25978309

    There are packages[4] that already contain the model data. Is it okay or
    should be fixed somehow?

    [4]: https://codesearch.debian.net/search?q=-10%2C+*0%2C+*-3%2C+*1%2C+*-8%2C+*-6%2C+*3%2C+*-13%2C&literal=0

    ---
    Please CC me directly, I'm not subscribed to the list.



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  • From Nicholas Guriev@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 18 20:50:02 2021
    Thank you, Walter Landry, for the reply!

    I daresay the problem is not whether Debian can include the whole
    training data in practical or technical meaning. The problem looks to
    run a little deeper. The project may have been forbidden to distribute RNNoise's model in the main archive section. Because the training data
    and therefore the produced model are not completely under a free
    license.

    I'm not 100% sure and seek for an advice.


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  • From Paul Wise@21:1/5 to Nicholas Guriev on Tue Oct 19 08:10:02 2021
    On Sun, 2021-10-17 at 13:08 +0300, Nicholas Guriev wrote:

    I still have suspicions about RNNoise and its probable non-free model.

    I'm the pabs3 in the HN thread you referenced. I think that RNNoise
    does not meet my personal standards for Free Software and also for
    machine learning. I think that under the Debian Deep Learning Team's
    Machine Learning Policy, it should be classified as a ToxicCandy Model.
    There isn't an official Debian position on this and there are other
    similar machine learning models in Debian; the threads about tesseract
    and Japanese text analysis come to mind for example:

    https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/33417ce2bcf9b6a0efaf4771b83c6df1@debian.org
    https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20190608184309.GA10146@goofy.osamu.debian.net

    What is the current consensus on this library in Debian community?

    Several maintainers have added it to Debian so it seems accepted:

    mumble, chromium, qtwebengine-opensource-src, obs-studio

    I already asked on debian-ai@ but nobody answered ever since.

    I suggest you bring this up again.

    --
    bye,
    pabs

    https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

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