Hi all, documenting my observations as of today because it's not looking promising for bookworm.

* kotlin FTBFS because of changes to support openjdk 17 #1012214
* gradle FTBFS since an upload of libjansi-java 2.4.0 #1013545
* gradle v6 has been (loosely) imported to the java-team repo
https://salsa.debian.org/freexian-team/project-funding/-/issues/19#note_314274
* I have not yet successfully built gradle v6 from gradle v6

The gradle-6.4.1-initial branch has a mix of patches, the series being I
think just a dump from the GSoC repo, which itself I think didn't
migrate the existing gradle v4 debianisation patches. To build at all,
an additional change to remove-enterprise-plugin.patch is needed to drop build.gradle.kts#L36. See https://www.emorrp1.name/gradle/ for output.

Rebuilding fails to find ant-1.10.7.jar, since it is in +bootstrap but
is 1.10.12 in debian. Oddly, this is still true after editing all
references to the hardcoded version, trying to fudge with maven.rules
and seems to be because of something gradle does to handle its own
dependency resolution as hinted at by:

https://salsa.debian.org/java-team/gradle/-/commit/f16a4214840f46d44032840cfb52f52c145a662d#fc53ddfd6619eeea25e146e23133a9367c26a52b

I think the next thing I'll look into is improving the +bootstrap, which
I think was just a dump of all the recursive jars it might possibly
need. There's a bootstrap script in the source to update, and I liked
the kotlin one, so will probable just import that. It'd be helpful if
the artifacts were split into two, those that are output to the build
and those that are just the frozen build-deps.

Feel free to chat with me in #debian-java on irc/matrix and if anyone
has permissions to the Salsa java-team, please could you add me there.

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On Sat, 20 Aug 2022, Phil Morrell wrote:

Hi all, documenting my observations as of today because it's not looking promising for bookworm.

* kotlin FTBFS because of changes to support openjdk 17 #1012214

If gradle depends on kotlin, it’s not eligible for stable anyway
because kotlin currently depends on two unsupported JDKs that are
available in unstable for bootstrapping and (old…‑)stable support
but nothing else.

bye,
//mirabilos
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Hi Phil,

On Sat, Aug 20, 2022 at 05:10:10PM +0100, Phil Morrell wrote:

Feel free to chat with me in #debian-java on irc/matrix and if anyone
has permissions to the Salsa java-team, please could you add me there.

Done.

Cheers,
tony

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Am Samstag, dem 20.08.2022 um 18:27 +0200 schrieb Thorsten Glaser:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022, Phil Morrell wrote:

Hi all, documenting my observations as of today because it's not looking promising for bookworm.

* kotlin FTBFS because of changes to support openjdk 17 #1012214

If gradle depends on kotlin, it’s not eligible for stable anyway
because kotlin currently depends on two unsupported JDKs that are
available in unstable for bootstrapping and (old…‑)stable support
but nothing else.

I agree, help with Kotlin would be really appreciated. At some point it started to FTBFS and this should be the first point of investigation. After that we should try to package a newer version that builds with and supports Java 17.

I'm making only slow progress with Gradle 6.x because of the long feedback loop (changing something, rebuilding and testing takes forever) but the goal is still to replace Grade 4. 

My conclusion so far is that Debian would be better off if we started to use different build systems whenever possible. Most of the time it would be a realistic task because many projects upload their artifacts to maven.org and we could port those Gradle projects to Maven based projects. I have started to work on a few projects and sometimes you could really just use javahelper to build an artifact and in the end building from source is the only thing we need.

Gradle might be a fantastic tool for visual and GUI driven developers and large projects which also use it as a project management tool. In Debian we just need something to build source code from the command line and Gradle is simply overkill in this regard.

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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hello Markus and everyone else,

Markus Koschany <apo@debian.org> writes:

Am Samstag, dem 20.08.2022 um 18:27 +0200 schrieb Thorsten Glaser:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022, Phil Morrell wrote:

Hi all, documenting my observations as of today because it's not looking >> > promising for bookworm.

* kotlin FTBFS because of changes to support openjdk 17 #1012214

If gradle depends on kotlin, it’s not eligible for stable anyway
because kotlin currently depends on two unsupported JDKs that are
available in unstable for bootstrapping and (old…‑)stable support
but nothing else.

I agree, help with Kotlin would be really appreciated. At some point it started
to FTBFS and this should be the first point of investigation. After that we should try to package a newer version that builds with and supports Java 17.

I'm making only slow progress with Gradle 6.x because of the long feedback loop
(changing something, rebuilding and testing takes forever) but the goal is still to replace Grade 4. 

thank you!

My conclusion so far is that Debian would be better off if we started to use different build systems whenever possible. Most of the time it would be a realistic task because many projects upload their artifacts to maven.org and we
could port those Gradle projects to Maven based projects. I have started to work on a few projects and sometimes you could really just use javahelper to build an artifact and in the end building from source is the only thing we need.

Gradle might be a fantastic tool for visual and GUI driven developers and large
projects which also use it as a project management tool. In Debian we just need
something to build source code from the command line and Gradle is simply overkill in this regard.

I can speak for Freeplane and as an ex-java-Developer: Gradle is used
for complex build systems, and I like it because it allows scripting via
groovy (with my limited knowledge of maven, you have to add a plugin for
_many_ things).

For Freeplane there are many quirks and fixes in gradle and it would be
very hard to map all these (ok, some things like generating installers
are not needed for a Debian build) to i.e. maven. It would be easier
to downport to gradle4, but even that is far from being easy (you need
to track errors that do not occur in upstream which may be subtle).

That's why I do not have the resources to package freeplane on my own.
Not having gradle is a pity for d-java, and anyway, thanks for the
effort you all put into it!

Cheers and Best Regards,
Felix
--
Felix Natter

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Markus Koschany:

Am Samstag, dem 20.08.2022 um 18:27 +0200 schrieb Thorsten Glaser:

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022, Phil Morrell wrote:

Hi all, documenting my observations as of today because it's not looking >>> promising for bookworm.

* kotlin FTBFS because of changes to support openjdk 17 #1012214

If gradle depends on kotlin, it’s not eligible for stable anyway
because kotlin currently depends on two unsupported JDKs that are
available in unstable for bootstrapping and (old…‑)stable support
but nothing else.

I agree, help with Kotlin would be really appreciated. At some point it started
to FTBFS and this should be the first point of investigation. After that we should try to package a newer version that builds with and supports Java 17.

I'm making only slow progress with Gradle 6.x because of the long feedback loop
(changing something, rebuilding and testing takes forever) but the goal is still to replace Grade 4.

My conclusion so far is that Debian would be better off if we started to use different build systems whenever possible. Most of the time it would be a realistic task because many projects upload their artifacts to maven.org and we
could port those Gradle projects to Maven based projects. I have started to work on a few projects and sometimes you could really just use javahelper to build an artifact and in the end building from source is the only thing we need.

Gradle might be a fantastic tool for visual and GUI driven developers and large
projects which also use it as a project management tool. In Debian we just need
something to build source code from the command line and Gradle is simply overkill in this regard.

I totally agree that we should build without Gradle whenever possible. I'm also
happy to hear you are still working on it, because there are many things that would not be feasible to build without Gradle.

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