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Hello,

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents
(as the virtual package pdf-viewer is for PDF documents) ?

Thanks in advance,
Jerome

--
Jerome BENOIT | calculus+at-rezozer^dot*net https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=calculus@rezozer.net
AE28 AE15 710D FF1D 87E5 A762 3F92 19A6 7F36 C68B


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On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 10:36:50AM +0100, Jerome BENOIT wrote:

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents

Do you mean Markdown? Are there specialized viewers for it at all?

--
WBR, wRAR

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Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> writes:

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 10:36:50AM +0100, Jerome BENOIT wrote:

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents

Do you mean Markdown? Are there specialized viewers for it at all?

The only one I know is https://metacpan.org/pod/sdview, but that's not
packaged in Debian (yet).

- ilmari

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Hi Jerome,

Quoting Jerome BENOIT (2022-01-24 10:36:50)

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents
(as the virtual package pdf-viewer is for PDF documents) ?

I assume that by MD you mean markdown...

No, Debian has no general virtual "markdown-viewer" package.

Unlike PDF and DjVu, Markdown is by design sloppy which has lead to a multitude of "flavors", so I suspect it is unlikely that we can find any common baseline that such virtual package should promise to provide.

Possibly it would make sense to define a
"commonmark-github-flavored-viewer" since that is a reasonably popular
flavor?

Here are some markdown viewers/editors currently in Debian:

* grip
* formiko
* mdp
* pampi
* ghostwriter
* kookbook
* retext

Why do you ask? Because you are looking for markdown viewers or because
you are packaging one and want to declare it as such, or...?

- Jonas

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Hello All, thanks for your replies.

On 24/01/2022 12:10, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Hi Jerome,

Quoting Jerome BENOIT (2022-01-24 10:36:50)

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents
(as the virtual package pdf-viewer is for PDF documents) ?

I assume that by MD you mean markdown...

indeed

No, Debian has no general virtual "markdown-viewer" package.

Unlike PDF and DjVu, Markdown is by design sloppy which has lead to a multitude of "flavors", so I suspect it is unlikely that we can find any common baseline that such virtual package should promise to provide.

Possibly it would make sense to define a
"commonmark-github-flavored-viewer" since that is a reasonably popular flavor?

Here are some markdown viewers/editors currently in Debian:

* grip
* formiko
* mdp
* pampi
* ghostwriter
* kookbook
* retext

Why do you ask? Because you are looking for markdown viewers or because
you are packaging one and want to declare it as such, or...?

I am asking because a software that I am currently packaging has its documents in MarDown (GitHub flavour, I guess).

So my understanding now is that there is no point to look for a generic MD viewer.

Therefore I am now considering to convert them in PDF and/or HTML documents.

Cheers,
Jerome

- Jonas

--
Jerome BENOIT | calculus+at-rezozer^dot*net https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=calculus@rezozer.net
AE28 AE15 710D FF1D 87E5 A762 3F92 19A6 7F36 C68B


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On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:46:40PM +0100, Jerome BENOIT wrote:

I am asking because a software that I am currently packaging has its documents
in MarDown (GitHub flavour, I guess).

You can likely read those with `less`.
Alternatively, software is likely to ship a build script for e.g. HTML in
which case you should use it (see https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-docs.html#preferred-documentation-formats).

--
WBR, wRAR

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Quoting Jerome BENOIT (2022-01-24 12:46:40)

On 24/01/2022 12:10, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Quoting Jerome BENOIT (2022-01-24 10:36:50)

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents
(as the virtual package pdf-viewer is for PDF documents) ?

[...]

Why do you ask? Because you are looking for markdown viewers or
because you are packaging one and want to declare it as such, or...?

I am asking because a software that I am currently packaging has its documents in MarDown (GitHub flavour, I guess).

So my understanding now is that there is no point to look for a
generic MD viewer.

Therefore I am now considering to convert them in PDF and/or HTML
documents.

It is quite common nowadays for software projects to ship at least core documentation in (github- or Gitlab-flavored) Markdown (or CommonMark, a non-sloppy spec'ed slight subset of Markdown).

As others replying here have indicated, the easiest is to ship such
files as-is, assuming that the reader is geeky enough to read it raw.

Personally I am of the opinion that more ideally such documentation
should be treated as a source format with two targets - html and
plaintext - and that both those target formats should be generated
during package build and installed with the binary package(s).

For Github-flavored Markdown I recommend to render both target formats
using the command-line tool cmark-gfm. Here is an example of that: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/doctest/-/commit/d9b848b

For most other flavors of Markdown I recommend to render using pandoc.
Here is an example of that: https://salsa.debian.org/js-team/twitter-bootstrap3/-/commit/f138bf1

For Gitlab-flavored Markdown there are currently no parser in Debian,
but depending on the actual markup used you might get away with pandoc +
a filter (but may then give up on rendering as plaintext). Here is an
example of that:
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/olm/-/commit/094396d

Feel free to reach out if you need help juggling Markdown or using
pandoc. I am no expert, but am interested, and am in touch with the
author if all else fails ;-)


- Jonas

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 02:12:06PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Personally I am of the opinion that more ideally such documentation
should be treated as a source format with two targets - html and
plaintext - and that both those target formats should be generated
during package build and installed with the binary package(s).

For Github-flavored Markdown I recommend to render both target formats
using the command-line tool cmark-gfm. Here is an example of that: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/doctest/-/commit/d9b848b

For most other flavors of Markdown I recommend to render using pandoc.
Here is an example of that: https://salsa.debian.org/js-team/twitter-bootstrap3/-/commit/f138bf1

For Gitlab-flavored Markdown there are currently no parser in Debian,
but depending on the actual markup used you might get away with pandoc +
a filter (but may then give up on rendering as plaintext). Here is an example of that:
https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/olm/-/commit/094396d

Feel free to reach out if you need help juggling Markdown or using
pandoc. I am no expert, but am interested, and am in touch with the
author if all else fails ;-)

I maintain "lowdown" in Debian. It supports several markup extensions
including several from GFM and CommonMark, and can output in HTML5, roff (man/ms), LaTeX, ODF etc. It also has a terminal output mode, that can
be used to format and view Markdown documents in a pager. Upstream is at https://kristaps.bsd.lv/lowdown/ and the package in Debian is just
"lowdown". Upstream is very responsive, so if you miss a particular
feature please file a bug (preferrably upstream, but I can also forward)

It's written in plain C and has no dependencies apart from libbsd. That
is of note, because pandoc is notorious for being hard to bootstrap
(because of Haskell) and the only other alternative I had explored for
my use case was ronn, which is in Ruby and thus also has a complicated dependency chain. (Depending on your package, you may or may not care
about your build-dependency chain; I did.)

Regards,
Faidon

1: https://kristaps.bsd.lv/lowdown/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Hi Faidon,

Quoting Faidon Liambotis (2022-01-24 15:03:44)

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 02:12:06PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Personally I am of the opinion that more ideally such documentation
should be treated as a source format with two targets - html and
plaintext - and that both those target formats should be generated
during package build and installed with the binary package(s).

For Github-flavored Markdown I recommend to render both target
formats using the command-line tool cmark-gfm. Here is an example
of that: https://salsa.debian.org/debian/doctest/-/commit/d9b848b

For most other flavors of Markdown I recommend to render using
pandoc. Here is an example of that: https://salsa.debian.org/js-team/twitter-bootstrap3/-/commit/f138bf1

For Gitlab-flavored Markdown there are currently no parser in
Debian, but depending on the actual markup used you might get away
with pandoc + a filter (but may then give up on rendering as
plaintext). Here is an example of that: https://salsa.debian.org/matrix-team/olm/-/commit/094396d

Feel free to reach out if you need help juggling Markdown or using
pandoc. I am no expert, but am interested, and am in touch with the author if all else fails ;-)

I maintain "lowdown" in Debian. It supports several markup extensions including several from GFM and CommonMark, and can output in HTML5,
roff (man/ms), LaTeX, ODF etc. It also has a terminal output mode,
that can be used to format and view Markdown documents in a pager.

There are _many_ markdown tools...

Lowdown indeed has some interesting features as interactive Markdown
*reader* - thanks for mentioning. Package description however does not mention if _always_ a superset of markdown/CommonMark is parsed or the
tool can be told to parse conservatively as well - perhaps relevant to
add such information to the package long description?

For *packaging* Markdown-authored documentation, where common format is
html and plaintext, I still recommend to first consider more
conservative and lightweight options¹, then more conservative yet heavy options² - i.e. only consider exciting tools when boring ones are
unsuitable.


- Jonas

¹ cmark is commonly regarded as one of the most conservative and
lightweight - see e.g. https://github.blog/2017-03-14-a-formal-spec-for-github-markdown/

² yes pandoc is big but battle-tested and exact about which flavors are parsed.

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:29:54PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Lowdown indeed has some interesting features as interactive Markdown
*reader* - thanks for mentioning. Package description however does not mention if _always_ a superset of markdown/CommonMark is parsed or the
tool can be told to parse conservatively as well - perhaps relevant to
add such information to the package long description?

lowdown describes itself primarily as a translator rather than a reader
(that part is already in the package description). There are indeed many customization options with regards to disabling various features,
whether markup extension-related (Markdown, CommonMark, GFM,
MultiMarkdown, PHP Extra) or otherwise, such as --parse-no-cmark.
lowdown(1) and lowdown(5) have all the details (in the package or on the website). I'll try to find a way to document that in the long
description in a future upload; thank you for the suggestion.

For *packaging* Markdown-authored documentation, where common format is
html and plaintext, I still recommend to first consider more
conservative and lightweight options¹, then more conservative yet heavy options² - i.e. only consider exciting tools when boring ones are
unsuitable.

Agreed, and why I recommended lowdown as a pretty conservative and
lightweight option. cmark is a good option too; pandoc is as well, if bootstrapping is not a concern.

Regards,
Faidon

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Quoting Faidon Liambotis (2022-01-24 20:08:01)

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:29:54PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

For *packaging* Markdown-authored documentation, where common format
is html and plaintext, I still recommend to first consider more conservative and lightweight options¹, then more conservative yet
heavy options² - i.e. only consider exciting tools when boring ones
are unsuitable.

Agreed, and why I recommended lowdown as a pretty conservative and lightweight option.

Sorry if I was unclear: I recommend *conservative* options over *pretty conservative* options. :-P

See e.g. "accurate" and "robust" at https://github.com/commonmark/cmark (didn't find any comparable claims at lowdown Homepage).

cmark is a good option too; pandoc is as well, if bootstrapping is not
a concern.

Use <!nodoc> to avoid bootstrapping being a concern.


- Jonas

--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Thanks again for your hints.
Finally I converts my MarkDown documents in HTML with pandoc.
Cheers,
Jerome

On 24/01/2022 12:46, Jerome BENOIT wrote:

Hello All, thanks for your replies.

On 24/01/2022 12:10, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

Hi Jerome,

Quoting Jerome BENOIT (2022-01-24 10:36:50)

is there a virtual package for viewing MD documents
(as the virtual package pdf-viewer is for PDF documents) ?

I assume that by MD you mean markdown...

indeed

No, Debian has no general virtual "markdown-viewer" package.

Unlike PDF and DjVu, Markdown is by design sloppy which has lead to a
multitude of "flavors", so I suspect it is unlikely that we can find any
common baseline that such virtual package should promise to provide.

Possibly it would make sense to define a
"commonmark-github-flavored-viewer" since that is a reasonably popular
flavor?

Here are some markdown viewers/editors currently in Debian:

  * grip
  * formiko
  * mdp
  * pampi
  * ghostwriter
  * kookbook
  * retext

Why do you ask? Because you are looking for markdown viewers or because
you are packaging one and want to declare it as such, or...?

I am asking because a software that I am currently packaging has its documents
in MarDown (GitHub flavour, I guess).

So my understanding now is that there is no point to look for a generic MD viewer.

Therefore I am now considering to convert them in PDF and/or HTML documents.

Cheers,
Jerome

  - Jonas

--
Jerome BENOIT | calculus+at-rezozer^dot*net https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=calculus@rezozer.net
AE28 AE15 710D FF1D 87E5 A762 3F92 19A6 7F36 C68B


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