• DD's, Debian Mentors needs you!

    From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 6 15:50:01 2024
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request
    any DD who has the time and is willing, to have a look at one or more of the packages below and
    possibly sponsor them into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a time on the 'devel' list
    works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 6 09:55:25 2024
    Copy: philip.wyett@kathenas.org

    On Saturday, July 6, 2024 6:45:33 AM MST Phil Wyett wrote:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request any DD who has the time and is willing, to have a look at one or more of the packages below and possibly sponsor them into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    I will take dmidecode.

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a time on the 'devel' list works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil


    --
    Soren Stoutner
    soren@debian.org
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  • From =?UTF-8?B?T3R0byBLZWvDpGzDpGluZW4=?@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 02:50:01 2024
    Hi!

    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/ https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/

    This is the same maintainer, I can take this on.

    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/

    I have worked with this maintainer before, I can help him now too.


    After this Hexwalk still needs a mentor.

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 03:10:01 2024
    On Sat, 2024-07-06 at 17:42 -0700, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
    Hi!

    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/ https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/

    This is the same maintainer, I can take this on.

    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/

    I have worked with this maintainer before, I can help him now too.


    After this Hexwalk still needs a mentor.

    Hi Otto,

    Many thanks for giving your time.

    selint has been picked up by Pierre Gruet <pgt@debian.org> via the Request For Sponsorship (RFS)
    bug[1], so I think that one is OK. The other two are happily yours. :-)

    [1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 03:20:01 2024
    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 07:41 +0800, xiao sheng wen(肖盛文) wrote:
    Hi,

    Support this become a weekly thing or a monthly thing.

    Can mentors.debian.net sent package list to debian-devel automatically?

    Regards,
    xiao sheng wen
    在 2024/7/6 21:45, Phil Wyett 写道:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request
    any DD who has the time and is willing, to have a look at one or more of the packages below and
    possibly sponsor them into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a time on the 'devel' list
    works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil


    --
    肖盛文 xiao sheng wen
    https://www.atzlinux.com 《铜豌豆 Linux》基于 Debian 的 Linux 中文 桌面
    操作系统
    Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=atzlinux%40sina.com
    Debian salsa: https://salsa.debian.org/atzlinux-guest
    GnuPG Public Key: 0x00186602339240CB


    Hi Xiao and all,

    I am not sure if this could be done automatically. Mentors uses the expo platform and that will take
    some research and discussion to see what maybe could be done. We could create a wiki page with ready
    packages for DD attention that could be forwarded in a mail to this list at a set interval. Maybe
    more experienced DDs/Contributors to Mentors such as Andrey Rakhmatullin may have more insight than
    I here.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 07:40:01 2024
    On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 07:41:25AM +0800, xiao sheng wen(肖盛文) wrote:
    Hi,

    Support this become a weekly thing or a monthly thing.

    Can mentors.debian.net sent package list to debian-devel automatically?

    The list of open RFSes is always available at https://bugs.debian.org/sponsorship-requests



    --
    WBR, wRAR

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 08:00:01 2024
    Hi Phil,

    thanks for advertising Debian Mentors.

    Am Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 02:45:33PM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    One thing I'm missing on mentors.d.n is that I it does not advertise
    existing teams. It happened from time to time that there was some
    sponsoring request of Debian Science, Debian Med or Debian Python Team
    related packages (surely others I did not notices). Asking on the
    relevant lists very easily helps getting the package in question
    sponsored. I have a personal sponsoring policy that I only sponsor from
    a Git repository in a team I'm working in. This has the advantage I can
    easily help by pushing some commit with extensive comment to teach the
    sponsee in some direct way. Making a sponsee aware how to work together
    with a team inside Debian is IMHO very important.

    Thus I would welcome if there could be some explicit hint to mentees
    to relevant teams.

    Kind regards
    Andreas.

    PS: Please do not understand my remark related to the packages below
    just a general remark fitting the subject.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request
    any DD who has the time and is willing, to have a look at one or more of the packages below and
    possibly sponsor them into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a time on the 'devel' list
    works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg



    --
    https://fam-tille.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 6 23:18:20 2024
    Copy: philip.wyett@kathenas.org

    After reading a number of comments to the email below, I thought I would provide a bit of context for this email and Phil’s excellent work on Mentors.

    Recently Phil has taken it upon himself to triage every package that requests sponsorship on mentors.debian.net. Here is an example of the work he does:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2024/07/msg00032.html

    When he feels a package is ready for sponsorship, he indicates that with an email to the list.

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2024/07/msg00024.html

    In some cases, nobody picks these up. The email below was sent to debian- devel with a curated list of packages that Phil has already reviewed and feels are ready for a DD to sponsor.

    At any point, anyone can look at all of the packages on Mentors requesting a sponsor.

    https://mentors.debian.net/

    But I have found Phil’s work to be very helpful, as I have limited time to handle sponsorships. When I look at a package Phil has endorsed, I can be sure that the simple and obvious things have already been taken care of.

    I would heartily hope that Phil continues to send periodic emails to debian- devel with lists of packages that he considers ready, but that are languishing on the vine because nobody has noticed them. I would also encourage anyone else to get involved in this process if they feel so inclined. I think that one of the most important aspects of attracting people to Debian is to make it easy for someone who is not yet a DD or DM to submit packages and have them be reviewed promptly. There is probably nothing as demotivating to a first-time contributor as putting a lot of effort into a package, having it be in good shape, and then never having it be sponsored simply because it didn’t get noticed.

    Soren

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I have advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think his contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can sponsor the packages he feels are ready.

    https://nm.debian.org/process/1305/

    On Saturday, July 6, 2024 6:45:33 AM MST Phil Wyett wrote:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request any DD who has the time and is willing, to have a look at one or more of the packages below and possibly sponsor them into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a time on the 'devel' list works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil


    --
    Soren Stoutner
    soren@debian.org
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  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to Andreas Tille on Sun Jul 7 08:30:01 2024
    On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 07:54:25AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
    Hi Phil,

    thanks for advertising Debian Mentors.

    Am Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 02:45:33PM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    One thing I'm missing on mentors.d.n is that I it does not advertise
    existing teams. It happened from time to time that there was some
    sponsoring request of Debian Science, Debian Med or Debian Python Team related packages (surely others I did not notices). Asking on the
    relevant lists very easily helps getting the package in question
    sponsored. I have a personal sponsoring policy that I only sponsor from
    a Git repository in a team I'm working in. This has the advantage I can easily help by pushing some commit with extensive comment to teach the sponsee in some direct way. Making a sponsee aware how to work together
    with a team inside Debian is IMHO very important.

    Thus I would welcome if there could be some explicit hint to mentees
    to relevant teams.

    Note that "Offer your package directly to relevant teams and individual developers." is sugested on https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers/
    and https://mentors.debian.net/sponsors/

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Nilesh Patra@21:1/5 to Andreas Tille on Sun Jul 7 09:50:02 2024
    On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 07:54:25AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
    Am Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 02:45:33PM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    One thing I'm missing on mentors.d.n is that I it does not advertise
    existing teams. It happened from time to time that there was some
    sponsoring request of Debian Science, Debian Med or Debian Python Team related packages (surely others I did not notices). Asking on the
    relevant lists very easily helps getting the package in question
    sponsored. I have a personal sponsoring policy that I only sponsor from
    a Git repository in a team I'm working in. This has the advantage I can easily help by pushing some commit with extensive comment to teach the sponsee in some direct way. Making a sponsee aware how to work together
    with a team inside Debian is IMHO very important.

    +1.

    I wanted to sponsor at least 3 packages but backed off when I saw it is impossible to push my changes to a common git repo to ease off the work.

    I could go ahead with selint (on salsa) but to my surprise selinux team does not
    have a request to join button on[1] - likely disabled on purpose.

    [1]: https://salsa.debian.org/selinux-team

    Best,
    Nilesh

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Andrey Rakhmatullin on Sun Jul 7 09:20:01 2024
    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 11:29 +0500, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote:
    On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 07:54:25AM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
    Hi Phil,

    thanks for advertising Debian Mentors.

    Am Sat, Jul 06, 2024 at 02:45:33PM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    One thing I'm missing on mentors.d.n is that I it does not advertise existing teams. It happened from time to time that there was some sponsoring request of Debian Science, Debian Med or Debian Python Team related packages (surely others I did not notices). Asking on the
    relevant lists very easily helps getting the package in question
    sponsored. I have a personal sponsoring policy that I only sponsor from
    a Git repository in a team I'm working in. This has the advantage I can easily help by pushing some commit with extensive comment to teach the sponsee in some direct way. Making a sponsee aware how to work together with a team inside Debian is IMHO very important.

    Thus I would welcome if there could be some explicit hint to mentees
    to relevant teams.

    Note that "Offer your package directly to relevant teams and individual developers." is sugested on https://mentors.debian.net/intro-maintainers/
    and https://mentors.debian.net/sponsors/


    Andreas, Andrey and All,

    Andrey has kindly offered links for relevant information here. Any additions or changes etc. of
    course would be subject to discussion and consensus on the mentors mailing list.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Soren Stoutner on Sun Jul 7 09:50:02 2024
    Morning Soren,

    Many thanks for the kinds words and the encouragement.

    As you stated wonderfully and I will additionally offer a little of my mentors motivations. Debian
    mentors can be the first experience of contribution to not just Debian, but Free and Open Source
    Software projects in general. Though technical, having mentors be welcoming and friendly (we all
    started knowing nothing) environment with consistency of "here are the tests/standards required by
    all" I hope with the help of others, make mentors a successful part of the Debian project that
    attracts and retains contributors.

    I must thank Gianfranco Costamagna who initially showed me the value of Debian mentors and
    encouraged me to get involved.

    Regards

    Phil


    On Sat, 2024-07-06 at 23:18 -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote:
    After reading a number of comments to the email below, I thought I would provide a bit of context for this email and Phil’s excellent work on Mentors.

    Recently Phil has taken it upon himself to triage every package that requests
    sponsorship on mentors.debian.net. Here is an example of the work he does:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2024/07/msg00032.html

    When he feels a package is ready for sponsorship, he indicates that with an email to the list.

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2024/07/msg00024.html

    In some cases, nobody picks these up. The email below was sent to debian- devel with a curated list of packages that Phil has already reviewed and feels
    are ready for a DD to sponsor.

    At any point, anyone can look at all of the packages on Mentors requesting a sponsor.

    https://mentors.debian.net/

    But I have found Phil’s work to be very helpful, as I have limited time to handle sponsorships. When I look at a package Phil has endorsed, I can be sure that the simple and obvious things have already been taken care of.

    I would heartily hope that Phil continues to send periodic emails to debian- devel with lists of packages that he considers ready, but that are languishing
    on the vine because nobody has noticed them. I would also encourage anyone else to get involved in this process if they feel so inclined. I think that one of the most important aspects of attracting people to Debian is to make it
    easy for someone who is not yet a DD or DM to submit packages and have them be
    reviewed promptly. There is probably nothing as demotivating to a first-time
    contributor as putting a lot of effort into a package, having it be in good shape, and then never having it be sponsored simply because it didn’t get noticed.

    Soren

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I have advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think his contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can sponsor the packages he feels are ready.

    https://nm.debian.org/process/1305/

    On Saturday, July 6, 2024 6:45:33 AM MST Phil Wyett wrote:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request any DD who has the time and is willing, to have a look at one or more of the packages below and possibly sponsor them into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a time on the 'devel' list works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil



    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Xiyue Deng on Sun Jul 7 09:50:02 2024
    On Sat, 2024-07-06 at 23:45 -0700, Xiyue Deng wrote:
    Soren Stoutner <soren@debian.org> writes:

    [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
    After reading a number of comments to the email below, I thought I would provide a bit of context for this email and Phil’s excellent work on Mentors.

    Recently Phil has taken it upon himself to triage every package that requests
    sponsorship on mentors.debian.net. Here is an example of the work he does:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2024/07/msg00032.html

    When he feels a package is ready for sponsorship, he indicates that with an
    email to the list.

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2024/07/msg00024.html

    In some cases, nobody picks these up. The email below was sent to debian- devel with a curated list of packages that Phil has already reviewed and feels
    are ready for a DD to sponsor.

    At any point, anyone can look at all of the packages on Mentors requesting a
    sponsor.

    https://mentors.debian.net/

    But I have found Phil’s work to be very helpful, as I have limited time to
    handle sponsorships. When I look at a package Phil has endorsed, I can be sure that the simple and obvious things have already been taken care of.

    I would heartily hope that Phil continues to send periodic emails to debian-
    devel with lists of packages that he considers ready, but that are languishing
    on the vine because nobody has noticed them. I would also encourage anyone
    else to get involved in this process if they feel so inclined. I think that
    one of the most important aspects of attracting people to Debian is to make it
    easy for someone who is not yet a DD or DM to submit packages and have them be
    reviewed promptly. There is probably nothing as demotivating to a first-time
    contributor as putting a lot of effort into a package, having it be in good
    shape, and then never having it be sponsored simply because it didn’t get
    noticed.

    Soren

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I have
    advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think his contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can sponsor the
    packages he feels are ready.

    https://nm.debian.org/process/1305/

    On Saturday, July 6, 2024 6:45:33 AM MST Phil Wyett wrote:
    Hi all DD's

    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for
    final reviewing and sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    We believe some packages are ready or very close to the quality for sponsorship and we would request any DD who has the time and is willing, to
    have a look at one or more of the packages below and possibly sponsor them
    into Debian.

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/hexwalk/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1065008

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/uriparser/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074542

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/mailgraph/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074552

    Mentors page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/dmidecode/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074553

    Mentor page:
    https://mentors.debian.net/package/selint/
    Request For Sponsorship (RFS): https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1074592

    Your assistance will be extremely appreciated and if announcing a few at a
    time on the 'devel' list works, this could become a weekly thing.

    [1] https://mentors.debian.net

    Regards

    Phil

    As one of those who received help from Phil who kindly helped review my packages and finding potential sponsors, I want to take this opportunity
    to thank Phil again for his kind works and Gianfranco for sponsoring
    many of my packages.

    With that said, I want to echo Soren's word that I believe what Phil and Gianfranco has been doing is greatly helpful for new and potential
    Debian Maintainers, and it would be great that this process can have
    more people involved and get improved to make the review and sponsor
    process smoother.


    Morning Xiyue,

    Thank you for the kind words. I agree whole heartedly with your comments that more people getting
    involved to make for a better Debian mentors would be good. Debian mentors is a great place to be
    around and we all learn something being involved.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From weepingclown@21:1/5 to Nilesh Patra on Sun Jul 7 10:40:01 2024
    Hi Nilesh,

    The 'request access' button is now available once clicked on the button with three dots on the top right, and on mobile this seems to be a "More actions" button instead of thw three dots one. IIRC this change has happened since before the last few gitlab
    version updates.

    Best,
    Ananthu

    On 7 July 2024 7:47:39 am UTC, Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> wrote:
    I could go ahead with selint (on salsa) but to my surprise selinux team does not
    have a request to join button on[1] - likely disabled on purpose.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Niels Thykier@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 11:40:01 2024
    Soren Stoutner:
    After reading a number of comments to the email below, I thought I would provide a bit of context for this email and Phil’s excellent work on Mentors.

    Recently Phil has taken it upon himself to triage every package that requests sponsorship on mentors.debian.net. Here is an example of the work he does:

    [...]

    Hi,

    I wholehearted agree that Phil is doing a lot of good work here and that
    it is helpful to all parties involved in d-mentors. From my PoV, what
    Phil does is so valuable that ideally we would provide it to all
    sponsored maintainers with minimal latency. For me, that means
    automating most of what Phil does. Ideally all, but I am not sure all
    the things Phil does are trivial to automate where we are now.


    But I have found Phil’s work to be very helpful, as I have limited time to handle sponsorships. When I look at a package Phil has endorsed, I can be sure that the simple and obvious things have already been taken care of.


    Thinking a bit more on this and its long term sustainability, I think we
    have a spot here where we could automate the process a lot. If we look
    at the list of things Phil does:

    1. Build:

    Automate-able if we had good sandboxes/throw away build machines.

    2. Lintian:

    I think mentors.d.o already does this. But it only works on the
    artifacts uploaded and Phil probably enriches this.

    3. Licenses:

    While ideally, we would want this to be automatic, I think we do not
    have a good solution to this and I doubt we get it any time soon.

    Though an 80/20 might be in our grasp for someone interested and
    I do not think it would need to depend on 1).

    4. Build Twice (sudo pbuilder build --twice <package>.dsc):

    Automate-able once 1) is solved.

    5. Reproducible builds (reporotest):

    Trivially automate-able once 1) is solved.

    6. Install/Upgrade:

    It sounds like something piuparts would check, so I assume this is
    all solvable once 1) is complete.

    7. Curating packages that pass these checks to various prospective
    sponsors (such as the mail we are all replying to)

    These automations would not replace Phil since Phil in "failure" cases
    provides suggestions on how to move forward. This part we would ideally automate as well, but that is a much harder problem for most of these
    checks. Still, having a "red/green" marker would enable newcomers to
    figure out where they need more effort or assistance.

    The salsa-CI pipeline basically does most of these (3+7 being very clear exceptions, do not remember if 4 is covered by salsa-ci, but adding it
    would probably easy) and that infrastructure already has "no trust" code execution flows. Another alternative might be leveraging debusine if
    that can do the same and is intended for this purpose (did not check).

    In theory, we can reduce this to a already solved problem by linking the RFS/mentors entry with the relevant CI pipeline report where possible
    and a "Consider using the salsa-CI pipeline" check. Might need
    tag2upload or dgit (assuming these support mentors.d.o), since that
    would make the commit visible. Additional bells and whistles can be
    added to the salsa-CI pipeline in the form of a small machine readable
    report output that mentors.d.n could render if necessary (etc.)

    I do think it could be a major improvement our sponsorship work flow for
    both sponsors and sponsored maintainers.

    1) We promote a streamlined packaging workflow that a large portion of
    Debian already follows and leverage existing infrastructure. Any
    updates to our workflow would appear into the sponsor workflow
    checklist workflow because they are the same underlying checks.

    2) The workflow provides most of these checks with low latency
    automation and would save the sponsored maintainers RFS +
    mentors.d.o upload round trips.

    3) The process would be a lot more sustainable, since most of it would
    be automatic.

    Obviously, on paper is doable but it might require ironing out a lot of
    bends or even not be possible at all. Sadly, I am not volunteering to do
    it (got too much on my plate already). However, I am putting the idea
    out there in case someone has time and interest in working on this area.

    I think the primary risk (problem to solve) is linking the mentors.d.o
    upload to a git commit on salsa and the related pipeline data for that.
    As said, I hope tag2upload/dgit could be part of the solution here (not
    sure how those will cope with mentors.d.o versions being a lot more
    mutable than regular uploads). For everything else, I think most of the
    heavy lifting have already been done and "just" a matter of gluing it
    all together.

    I would heartily hope that Phil continues to send periodic emails to debian- devel with lists of packages that he considers ready, but that are languishing
    on the vine because nobody has noticed them.

    Agreed.

    [...] There is probably nothing as demotivating to a first-time
    contributor as putting a lot of effort into a package, having it be in good shape, and then never having it be sponsored simply because it didn’t get noticed.

    Soren


    Agreed; feedback latency is quite a de-motivation factor for me as well.

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I have advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think his contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can sponsor the packages he feels are ready.

    https://nm.debian.org/process/1305/

    [...]

    Thanks for supporting Phil. :)


    Best regards,
    Niels

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Nilesh Patra@21:1/5 to weepingclown on Sun Jul 7 13:00:01 2024
    On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 08:34:13AM +0000, weepingclown wrote:
    Hi Nilesh,

    The 'request access' button is now available once clicked on the button with three dots on the top right, and on mobile this seems to be a "More actions" button instead of thw three dots one. IIRC this change has happened since before the last few
    gitlab version updates.

    Ah, thanks weeping sir!
    I have clicked on the request access button ever since I started contributing and was unaware about this.

    I've applied. Let's see if someone considers approving.

    Best,
    Ananthu

    On 7 July 2024 7:47:39 am UTC, Nilesh Patra <nilesh@debian.org> wrote:
    I could go ahead with selint (on salsa) but to my surprise selinux team does not
    have a request to join button on[1] - likely disabled on purpose.


    Best,
    Nilesh

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Niels Thykier on Sun Jul 7 12:30:01 2024
    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 11:32 +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
    Soren Stoutner:
    After reading a number of comments to the email below, I thought I would provide a bit of context for this email and Phil’s excellent work on Mentors.

    Recently Phil has taken it upon himself to triage every package that requests
    sponsorship on mentors.debian.net. Here is an example of the work he does:

    [...]

    Hi,

    I wholehearted agree that Phil is doing a lot of good work here and that
    it is helpful to all parties involved in d-mentors. From my PoV, what
    Phil does is so valuable that ideally we would provide it to all
    sponsored maintainers with minimal latency. For me, that means
    automating most of what Phil does. Ideally all, but I am not sure all
    the things Phil does are trivial to automate where we are now.


    Many thanks.

    But I have found Phil’s work to be very helpful, as I have limited time to
    handle sponsorships. When I look at a package Phil has endorsed, I can be sure that the simple and obvious things have already been taken care of.


    Thinking a bit more on this and its long term sustainability, I think we have a spot here where we could automate the process a lot. If we look
    at the list of things Phil does:

    1. Build:

    Automate-able if we had good sandboxes/throw away build machines.

    2. Lintian:

    I think mentors.d.o already does this. But it only works on the
    artifacts uploaded and Phil probably enriches this.

    3. Licenses:

    While ideally, we would want this to be automatic, I think we do not
    have a good solution to this and I doubt we get it any time soon.

    Though an 80/20 might be in our grasp for someone interested and
    I do not think it would need to depend on 1).

    4. Build Twice (sudo pbuilder build --twice <package>.dsc):

    Automate-able once 1) is solved.

    5. Reproducible builds (reporotest):

    Trivially automate-able once 1) is solved.

    6. Install/Upgrade:

    It sounds like something piuparts would check, so I assume this is
    all solvable once 1) is complete.

    7. Curating packages that pass these checks to various prospective
    sponsors (such as the mail we are all replying to)

    These automations would not replace Phil since Phil in "failure" cases provides suggestions on how to move forward. This part we would ideally automate as well, but that is a much harder problem for most of these checks. Still, having a "red/green" marker would enable newcomers to
    figure out where they need more effort or assistance.

    The salsa-CI pipeline basically does most of these (3+7 being very clear exceptions, do not remember if 4 is covered by salsa-ci, but adding it
    would probably easy) and that infrastructure already has "no trust" code execution flows. Another alternative might be leveraging debusine if
    that can do the same and is intended for this purpose (did not check).

    In theory, we can reduce this to a already solved problem by linking the RFS/mentors entry with the relevant CI pipeline report where possible
    and a "Consider using the salsa-CI pipeline" check. Might need
    tag2upload or dgit (assuming these support mentors.d.o), since that
    would make the commit visible. Additional bells and whistles can be
    added to the salsa-CI pipeline in the form of a small machine readable report output that mentors.d.n could render if necessary (etc.)

    I do think it could be a major improvement our sponsorship work flow for both sponsors and sponsored maintainers.

    1) We promote a streamlined packaging workflow that a large portion of
    Debian already follows and leverage existing infrastructure. Any
    updates to our workflow would appear into the sponsor workflow
    checklist workflow because they are the same underlying checks.

    2) The workflow provides most of these checks with low latency
    automation and would save the sponsored maintainers RFS +
    mentors.d.o upload round trips.

    3) The process would be a lot more sustainable, since most of it would
    be automatic.

    Obviously, on paper is doable but it might require ironing out a lot of bends or even not be possible at all. Sadly, I am not volunteering to do
    it (got too much on my plate already). However, I am putting the idea
    out there in case someone has time and interest in working on this area.

    I think the primary risk (problem to solve) is linking the mentors.d.o upload to a git commit on salsa and the related pipeline data for that.
    As said, I hope tag2upload/dgit could be part of the solution here (not
    sure how those will cope with mentors.d.o versions being a lot more
    mutable than regular uploads). For everything else, I think most of the heavy lifting have already been done and "just" a matter of gluing it
    all together.


    Being partially or fully automated is fine by me. :-) I would be happy to assist
    those who embarked on such a project. There is always work elsewhere in Debian like the QA Team that I have interest in.

    <snip>

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

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  • From Joerg Jaspert@21:1/5 to Soren Stoutner on Sun Jul 7 13:30:01 2024
    On 17283 March 1977, Soren Stoutner wrote:

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I
    have
    advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think
    his
    contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can
    sponsor the
    packages he feels are ready.

    It is only just July. He got rejected in May once - that's a bit too
    soon yet. (The usual time for a retry is somewhere around 6 month, and
    includes acknowleding (and working on) issues of the rejection).

    Note that it is not only technical knowledge that is required. That's
    "just" part of it.

    --
    bye, Joerg

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Jeremy_B=C3=ADcha?=@21:1/5 to philip.wyett@kathenas.org on Sun Jul 7 16:30:01 2024
    On Sat, Jul 6, 2024 at 9:46 AM Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> wrote:
    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    One thing that has disrupted my use of https://mentors.debian.net/ for sponsoring is that I am unable to log in. I don't get any of the "sign
    up" or "reset password" emails.

    Thank you,
    Jeremy Bícha

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 16:40:01 2024
    On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 10:10:55AM -0400, Jeremy Bícha wrote:
    On Sat, Jul 6, 2024 at 9:46 AM Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> wrote:
    Debian Mentors[1] always struggles to find available Debian Developers for final reviewing and
    sponsoring of packages submitted too our part of the project.

    One thing that has disrupted my use of https://mentors.debian.net/ for sponsoring is that I am unable to log in. I don't get any of the "sign
    up" or "reset password" emails.

    Sponsors don't need an account there though, (optionally) looking at the package page and downloading the .dsc should be enough.

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Andreas Tille@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 7 23:00:01 2024
    Hi Phil,

    Am Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 08:48:22AM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:

    Thank you for the kind words. I agree whole heartedly with your comments that more people getting
    involved to make for a better Debian mentors would be good. Debian mentors is a great place to be
    around and we all learn something being involved.

    Thanks to you and all your work for mentors.d.n. Just to clarify my
    mail about connecting to teams (which is done as I learned in response):
    I did by no means intended to lower the importance of mentors.d.n in
    general for Debian and newcomers.

    Thanks again
    Andreas.

    --
    https://fam-tille.de

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Andreas Tille on Sun Jul 7 23:20:01 2024
    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 22:51 +0200, Andreas Tille wrote:
    Hi Phil,

    Am Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 08:48:22AM +0100 schrieb Phil Wyett:
    Thank you for the kind words. I agree whole heartedly with your comments that more people getting
    involved to make for a better Debian mentors would be good. Debian mentors is a great place to be
    around and we all learn something being involved.

    Thanks to you and all your work for mentors.d.n. Just to clarify my
    mail about connecting to teams (which is done as I learned in response):
    I did by no means intended to lower the importance of mentors.d.n in
    general for Debian and newcomers.

    Thanks again
    Andreas.


    Hi Andreas,

    No need at all for your clarification. My words were generally meant to be an ideal for what I feel that mentors should be and what people can gain from it.

    Your comments regarding connecting teams are in my thoughts for how we can do better in this direction. I did reach out to the python team a little while ago to find sponsors for a few python packages that had been languishing on mentors.
    This turned into a discussion if the python team can approach sponsoring in a different way and the ruby team was put forward, who have a very good procedures
    for sponsoring.

    I am not yet ready to let these thoughts out as yet until they are fully formed and be best put forward to contributors to mentors etc.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    "I play the game for the game’s own sake"

    Arthur Conan Doyle - The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

    --


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  • From Baptiste Beauplat@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 8 21:40:01 2024
    Hi,

    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 07:41 +0800, xiao sheng wen(肖盛文) wrote:
    Support this become a weekly thing or a monthly thing.

    Can mentors.debian.net sent package list to debian-devel automatically?

    It could. There is actually an issue for that[1], but no one has worked
    on it yet.

    Note that, there is also an api on mentors[2], that an external
    provider could use that to craft and send those weekly reports
    automatically.

    Best,

    [1]: https://salsa.debian.org/mentors.debian.net-team/debexpo/-/issues/42
    [2]: https://mentors.debian.net/api/

    --
    Baptiste Beauplat


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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Baptiste Beauplat on Tue Jul 9 07:40:01 2024
    On Mon, 2024-07-08 at 21:30 +0200, Baptiste Beauplat wrote:
    Hi,

    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 07:41 +0800, xiao sheng wen(肖盛文) wrote:
    Support this become a weekly thing or a monthly thing.

    Can mentors.debian.net sent package list to debian-devel automatically?

    It could. There is actually an issue for that[1], but no one has worked
    on it yet.

    Note that, there is also an api on mentors[2], that an external
    provider could use that to craft and send those weekly reports
    automatically.

    Best,

    [1]: https://salsa.debian.org/mentors.debian.net-team/debexpo/-/issues/42 [2]: https://mentors.debian.net/api/


    Morning,

    The API currently does not seem to expose the data to extract to create such a report. When comment is done in the comment box for an upload, we have a dropdown with:

    * Not reviewed
    * Needs work
    * Ready

    The above data does not seem to be stored. The up-loader also has the ability to
    mark an their upload as ready. These would need to be addressed before any viable report could be thought about.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    "I play the game for the game’s own sake"

    Arthur Conan Doyle - The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

    --


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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to Joerg Jaspert on Tue Jul 9 11:50:01 2024
    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 13:20 +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
    On 17283 March 1977, Soren Stoutner wrote:

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I have
    advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think
    his
    contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can
    sponsor the
    packages he feels are ready.

    It is only just July. He got rejected in May once - that's a bit too
    soon yet. (The usual time for a retry is somewhere around 6 month, and includes acknowleding (and working on) issues of the rejection).

    Note that it is not only technical knowledge that is required. That's
    "just" part of it.


    Morning Joerg,

    Thank you for your comments. Indeed, less than 24 hours later, I received an email stating my Debian Developer (DD), with upload application was to be closed
    and now has been.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    "I play the game for the game’s own sake"

    Arthur Conan Doyle - The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

    --


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  • From =?utf-8?Q?Pierre-Elliott_B=C3=A9cue@21:1/5 to Phil Wyett on Tue Jul 9 14:30:02 2024
    Hello,

    Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> wrote on 09/07/2024 at 11:40:32+0200:

    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 13:20 +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
    On 17283 March 1977, Soren Stoutner wrote:

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I >> > have
    advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think
    his
    contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can
    sponsor the
    packages he feels are ready.

    It is only just July. He got rejected in May once - that's a bit too
    soon yet. (The usual time for a retry is somewhere around 6 month, and
    includes acknowleding (and working on) issues of the rejection).

    Note that it is not only technical knowledge that is required. That's
    "just" part of it.


    Morning Joerg,

    Thank you for your comments. Indeed, less than 24 hours later, I
    received an email stating my Debian Developer (DD), with upload
    application was to be closed and now has been.

    Regards

    FTAOD I closed this process without interacting DAM or Joerg and not
    having read his mail. I will reopen it as I stated to you when the
    proper time comes.

    I'm really happy that you're trying to work on making mentors.d.n more proficient and active, and I'm also happy that you didn't get
    demotivated by the different exchanges we collectively had in the past.

    As Joerg stated, we'll probably need to have a chat about the reasons
    that led to the initial rejection and your thoughts on the whole
    thing. That being said, I won't go into details publicly and I do hope
    that you'll indeed come back to us in a few months so we can try going
    forward.

    In the meantime, I'd like to express my gratitude for your commitment.

    Bests,
    --
    PEB

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  • From Phil Wyett@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 9 14:50:01 2024
    On Tue, 2024-07-09 at 14:23 +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
    Hello,

    Phil Wyett <philip.wyett@kathenas.org> wrote on 09/07/2024 at 11:40:32+0200:

    On Sun, 2024-07-07 at 13:20 +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
    On 17283 March 1977, Soren Stoutner wrote:

    P.S. Based on Phil’s work on Mentors and my interactions with him, I
    have
    advocated for him to become a Debian Developer, uploading. I think his
    contributions to Debian will be even more impactful when he can sponsor the
    packages he feels are ready.

    It is only just July. He got rejected in May once - that's a bit too
    soon yet. (The usual time for a retry is somewhere around 6 month, and includes acknowleding (and working on) issues of the rejection).

    Note that it is not only technical knowledge that is required. That's "just" part of it.


    Morning Joerg,

    Thank you for your comments. Indeed, less than 24 hours later, I
    received an email stating my Debian Developer (DD), with upload
    application was to be closed and now has been.

    Regards

    FTAOD I closed this process without interacting DAM or Joerg and not
    having read his mail. I will reopen it as I stated to you when the
    proper time comes.

    I'm really happy that you're trying to work on making mentors.d.n more proficient and active, and I'm also happy that you didn't get
    demotivated by the different exchanges we collectively had in the past.

    As Joerg stated, we'll probably need to have a chat about the reasons
    that led to the initial rejection and your thoughts on the whole
    thing. That being said, I won't go into details publicly and I do hope
    that you'll indeed come back to us in a few months so we can try going forward.

    In the meantime, I'd like to express my gratitude for your commitment.

    Bests,

    Afternoon,

    There will be no seeking to reopen the application.

    Regards

    Phil

    --

    "I play the game for the game’s own sake"

    Arthur Conan Doyle - The Adventure of the Bruce-Partington Plans

    --

    Internet Relay Chat (IRC): kathenas

    Website: https://kathenas.org

    Instagram: https://instagram.com/kathenasorg/

    Buy Me A Coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/kathenasorg

    --


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