• Re: Mini-DebConf in Cambridge, UK - October 10-13 2024

    From Steve McIntyre@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 13:40:01 2024
    XPost: linux.debian.user

    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:18:56PM +0200, somebody *claiming* to be Luna Jernberg wrote:

    <junk elided>

    Just to be 100% clear, that mail didn't come from Luna's normal gmail
    account but was instead spoofed and sent via emkei.cz, a "free online
    fake mailer". It's now blocked from Debian lists.

    --
    Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "...In the UNIX world, people tend to interpret `non-technical user'
    as meaning someone who's only ever written one device driver." -- Daniel Pead

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  • From Jonathan Kamens@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 14:00:01 2024
    This is a multi-part message in MIME format. VG9uZS1wb2xpY2luZyBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGNvbXBsYWluIGFib3V0IHRyYW5zcGhvYmlhIGlz IGluYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgYW5kIA0KbWFrZXMgdGhlIGNvbW11bml0eSBsZXNzIHdlbGNvbWlu ZyBmb3IgdHJhbnMgYW5kIG90aGVyIG1hcmdpbmFsaXplZCBwZW9wbGUuDQoNCkl0IGlzIG5v dGV3b3J0aHkgdGhhdCB5b3UgY29tcGxhaW5lZCBhYm91dCB0aGUgYXV0aG9yJ3MgdG9uZSBi dXQgc2FpZCANCm5vdGhpbmcgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHRyYW5zcGhvYmlhLg0KDQpJZiB5b3UgZG9u J3Qga25vdyBlbm91Z2ggYWJvdXQgdGhlIHNpdHVhdGlvbiB0byBjb21tZW50IGFib3V0IHRo ZSANCnRyYW5zcGhvYmlhLCB0aGVuIHlvdSBzaG91bGQgYWxzbyByZWZyYWluIGZyb20gY29t bWVudCBhYm91dCB0aGUgdG9uZS4NCg0KT24gNi8yNC8yNCA2OjU5IEFNLCBBbGV4YW5kcnUg TWloYWlsIHdyb3RlOg0KPj4g77u/d2lsbCBub3QgYmUgYXR0ZW5kaW5nIERlYmNhbXAvRGVi Y29uZiBhdCBhbGwgdGhpcyB5ZWFyIGxhc3Qgd2VlayBvZiBKdWx5L2ZpcnN0IHdlZWsgb2Yg QXVndXN0IGFzIEkgYW0gdGlyZWQgb2YgZHJhbWEgaW4gdGhlIERlYmlhbiBjb21tdW5pdHkg cmlnaHQgbm93IGFuZCBzbGVkZ2Ugd2FzIGJlaW5nIGFuIGFzc2hvbGUgYW5kIGJhbm5lZCBt ZSBmcm9tIE9GVEMgZm9yIGEgbW9udGggbGlrZSB0aGUgdHJhbnNwaG9iaWMgcGlnIGhlIGlz LCBob3dldmVyIHdpbGwgYmUgYXR0ZW5kaW5nIGFzIGFuIG9ubGluZSB2aXNpdG9yIGF0IEdV QURFQyAyMDI0IGluIG1pZC1KdWx5IGFuZCByZXN1bWUgbXkgZW5nYWdlbWVudCBpbiBHTk9N RSBhZnRlciB0aGlzIHdpbGwgYWxzbyBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0ZSBPbmxpbmUgYXQgRmVkb3JhJ3Mg Y29uZmVyZW5jZSBpbiB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHdlZWsgb2YgQXVndXN0IChidXQgaGF2ZSBubyBl bmVyZ3kgdG8gZmx5IHRvIHRoZW0gb24gc2l0ZSB0aGlzIHllYXIgaW4gdGhlIFVTQSkgd2ls bCBob3dldmVyIGhlbHAgYXQgdGhlIG9wZW5TVVNFIGNvbmZlcmVuY2UgaW4gR2VybWFueSBp biAxIHdlZWsgYW5kIGdvIHRvIHRoZSBndXkgaW4gRW5nbGFuZCBpbiBBdWd1c3QsIGJ1dCAz LTMwdGggSnVseSBJIHdpbGwgYmUgYXQgaG9tZSBpbiBTd2VkZW4gYW5kIGNoaWxsDQo+IExl dCdzIGtlZXAgdGhlIGRpc2N1c3Npb24gY2l2aWwgc2hhbGwgd2UgPyBZb3UncmUgc2VuZGlu ZyBtYWlsIHRvIHRoZSBEZWJpYW4gZGV2ZWwgbGlzdCB3aGljaCBpcyByZWFkIGFuZCBwYXJz ZWQgYnkgbWFueSwgbWFueSBwZW9wbGUgYW5kIGJvdHMgaW4gYSBwbGV0aG9yYSBvZiBlbnZp cm9ubWVudHMuIFRoaXMgaXMgbm90IHRoZSByaWdodCBwbGFjZSBmb3IgcHJvZmFuaXR5LiBU YWtlIGNhcmUNCj4NCj4NCg==
    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body>
    <p>Tone-policing people who complain about transphobia is
    inappropriate and makes the community less welcoming for trans and
    other marginalized people.</p>
    <p>It is noteworthy that you complained about the author's tone but
    said nothing about the transphobia.</p>
    <p>If you don't know enough about the situation to comment about the
    transphobia, then you should also refrain from comment about the
    tone.</p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/24/24 6:59 AM, Alexandru Mihail
    wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
    cite="mid:755627F9-9F0B-4C0E-AF85-D1EC58992C16@gmail.com">
    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
    </pre>
    <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">will not be attending Debcamp/Debconf at all this year last week of July/first week of August as I am tired of drama in the Debian community right now and sledge was being an asshole and banned me from OFTC
    for a month like the transphobic pig he is, however will be attending as an online visitor at GUADEC 2024 in mid-July and resume my engagement in GNOME after this will also participate Online at Fedora's conference in the second week of August (but have
    no energy to fly to them on site this year in the USA) will however help at the openSUSE conference in Germany in 1 week and go to the guy in England in August, but 3-30th July I will be at home in Sweden and chill
    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
    Let's keep the discussion civil shall we ? You're sending mail to the Debian devel list which is read and parsed by many, many people and bots in a plethora of environments. This is not the right place for profanity. Take care


    </pre>
    </blockquote>
    </body>
    </html>

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  • From Soren Stoutner@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 24 09:51:33 2024
    Copy: jik@kamens.us (Jonathan Kamens)

    On Monday, June 24, 2024 4:24:32 AM MST Jonathan Kamens wrote:
    If you don't know enough about the situation to comment about the transphobia, then you should also refrain from comment about the tone.

    I disagree strongly. The tone of this email is NEVER appropriate in Debian. Therefore, it is appropriate for any member of the Debian community to call this out and request that it not happen again, regardless of any other aspect of the situation.

    If there was other inappropriate behavior on the part of other people, that should be dealt with accordingly. It can be done so without the use of such language.

    On 6/24/24 6:59 AM, Alexandru Mihail wrote:

    will not be attending Debcamp/Debconf at all this year last week of
    July/first week of August as I am tired of drama in the Debian community >> right now and sledge was being an asshole and banned me from OFTC for a
    month like the transphobic pig he is, however will be attending as an
    online visitor at GUADEC 2024 in mid-July and resume my engagement in
    GNOME after this will also participate Online at Fedora's conference in
    the second week of August (but have no energy to fly to them on site this >> year in the USA) will however help at the openSUSE conference in Germany >> in 1 week and go to the guy in England in August, but 3-30th July I will >> be at home in Sweden and chill

    Let's keep the discussion civil shall we ? You're sending mail to the
    Debian
    devel list which is read and parsed by many, many people and bots in a plethora of environments. This is not the right place for profanity. Take care





    --
    Soren Stoutner
    soren@debian.org
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  • From Nilesh Patra@21:1/5 to Steve McIntyre on Tue Jun 25 05:20:01 2024
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:32:59PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:18:56PM +0200, somebody *claiming* to be Luna Jernberg wrote:

    <junk elided>

    Just to be 100% clear, that mail didn't come from Luna's normal gmail
    account but was instead spoofed and sent via emkei.cz, a "free online
    fake mailer". It's now blocked from Debian lists.

    If what you're saying is correct (based on headers that make sense), it's a bit concerning since someone is launching targeted spoofing attacks with the name of actual Debian contributors.

    The style of writing mail - everything in one line, CCing several lists is similar to how Luna writes it too. Freaky.

    Best,
    Nilesh

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  • From Roberto =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=2E_S=E1nch@21:1/5 to Nilesh Patra on Tue Jun 25 12:20:01 2024
    On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 08:39:51AM +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:32:59PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:18:56PM +0200, somebody *claiming* to be Luna Jernberg wrote:

    <junk elided>

    Just to be 100% clear, that mail didn't come from Luna's normal gmail account but was instead spoofed and sent via emkei.cz, a "free online
    fake mailer". It's now blocked from Debian lists.

    If what you're saying is correct (based on headers that make sense), it's a bit
    concerning since someone is launching targeted spoofing attacks with the name of actual Debian contributors.

    The style of writing mail - everything in one line, CCing several lists is similar to how Luna writes it too. Freaky.

    AI can already generate audio and video that convincingly imitate real
    people. Why not the same with email? Though, the implications are rather serious.

    Perhaps our policies need to evolve to expect (or require?)
    cryptographic signatures from DDs in mailing list discussion. We may
    eventually reach a point where AI can fabricate those as well, but that
    seems to not be possible yet.

    Regards,

    -Roberto

    --
    Roberto C. Sánchez

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  • From Judit Foglszinger@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 25 12:21:42 2024
    Hi,

    Perhaps our policies need to evolve to expect (or require?)
    cryptographic signatures from DDs in mailing list discussion. We may eventually reach a point where AI can fabricate those as well, but that
    seems to not be possible yet.

    For that it would need to break the cryptographic key,
    so if it can, our keys are compromized anyway :)

    But indeed, a good argument to sign all ones mails.



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  • From Andrey Rakhmatullin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 25 13:00:01 2024
    On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 06:14:54AM -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
    The style of writing mail - everything in one line, CCing several lists is similar to how Luna writes it too. Freaky.

    AI can already generate audio and video that convincingly imitate real people. Why not the same with email? Though, the implications are rather serious.

    That "style" doesn't seem to be hard to imitate manually...

    Perhaps our policies need to evolve to expect (or require?)
    cryptographic signatures from DDs in mailing list discussion.

    Not all people here are DDs anyway.

    --
    WBR, wRAR

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  • From Gunnar Wolf@21:1/5 to I point my finger to on Sat Jun 29 07:30:01 2024
    Roberto C. Sánchez dijo [Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 06:14:54AM -0400]:
    On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 08:39:51AM +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:32:59PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:18:56PM +0200, somebody *claiming* to be Luna Jernberg wrote:

    <junk elided>

    Just to be 100% clear, that mail didn't come from Luna's normal gmail account but was instead spoofed and sent via emkei.cz, a "free online fake mailer". It's now blocked from Debian lists.

    If what you're saying is correct (based on headers that make sense), it's a bit
    concerning since someone is launching targeted spoofing attacks with the name
    of actual Debian contributors.

    The style of writing mail - everything in one line, CCing several lists is similar to how Luna writes it too. Freaky.

    Sadly, we do have our resident, established, well-known favorite
    troll. And the project has quite recently made an announcement
    involving him:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-news/2024/msg00000.html

    So, given no evidence otherwise, I point my finger to said troll's
    general direction.

    AI can already generate audio and video that convincingly imitate real people. Why not the same with email? Though, the implications are rather serious.

    Perhaps our policies need to evolve to expect (or require?)
    cryptographic signatures from DDs in mailing list discussion. We may eventually reach a point where AI can fabricate those as well, but that
    seems to not be possible yet.

    This time around we don't need to overcomplicate things given we know
    it is his establihed pattern to come up with false identities trying
    to smear sh*t on DD's noses.

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  • From Geert Stappers@21:1/5 to Gunnar Wolf on Sat Jun 29 08:10:02 2024
    On Fri, Jun 28, 2024 at 11:23:57PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
    Roberto C. Sánchez dijo [Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 06:14:54AM -0400]:
    On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 08:39:51AM +0530, Nilesh Patra wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:32:59PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
    On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 12:18:56PM +0200, somebody *claiming* to be Luna Jernberg wrote:

    <junk elided>

    Just to be 100% clear, that mail didn't come from Luna's normal gmail account but was instead spoofed and sent via emkei.cz, a "free online fake mailer". It's now blocked from Debian lists.

    If what you're saying is correct (based on headers that make sense), it's a bit
    concerning since someone is launching targeted spoofing attacks with the name
    of actual Debian contributors.

    The style of writing mail - everything in one line, CCing several lists is
    similar to how Luna writes it too. Freaky.

    Sadly, we do have our resident, established, well-known favorite
    troll. And the project has quite recently made an announcement
    involving him:

    https://lists.debian.org/debian-news/2024/msg00000.html

    So, given no evidence otherwise, I point my finger to said troll's
    general direction.

    AI can already generate audio and video that convincingly imitate real people. Why not the same with email? Though, the implications are rather serious.

    Perhaps our policies need to evolve to expect (or require?)
    cryptographic signatures from DDs in mailing list discussion. We may eventually reach a point where AI can fabricate those as well, but that seems to not be possible yet.

    This time around we don't need to overcomplicate things given we know
    it is his establihed pattern to come up with false identities trying
    to smear sh*t on DD's noses.



    Advice for those who are unaware of trolls:

    Do known that such energy sucking creatures exist and avoid them.



    Groeten
    Geert Stappers
    --
    Silence is hard to parse

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